So what is the Hero's Journey, and can I use it with my roleplaying party?
>>44252238
Be warned OP, the Monomyth is so prevalent that if you adopt it for your campaign, your players WILL see every single twist coming. Hell, if they're shitheads they'll even complain.
I have this. It's pretty good.
>Disney version
1. The Ordinary World,
2. The Call to Adventure,
3. Refusal of the Call,
4. Meeting with the Mentor,
5. Crossing the Threshold to the "special world",
6. Tests, Allies and Enemies,
7. Approach to the Innermost Cave,
8. The Ordeal,
9. Reward,
10. The Road Back,
11. The Resurrection,
12. Return with the Elixir.
>>44252238
>can I use it?
Exactly in copy/paste form? It's a little predictable.
Usually it's great to focus on the Call to Adventure (and how other works have done that), the Threshold, and the Trials. Those are parts of basically every epic, and they're fun.
>>44252282
The most literal application of the Hero's Journey is in the first Matrix movie.
>>44252238
>So what is the Hero's Journey
It's more of a framework for storytelling, honestly. Nothing new, just acknowledges what has been for ages.
If you feel like your narrative is missing something, look at it. Otherwise, just do.
>>44252238
The Hero's Journey is the narrative equivalent of the Four Chords of Pop.
What's interesting about it is that it shows up in so many *different* stories. It is not the reason why those stories are good, and using it as a guide won't necessarily help.
See here:
https://filmcrithulk.wordpress.com/2011/10/06/hulk-explains-why-we-should-stop-it-with-the-hero-journey-shit/
>>44252544
He never returns to normal life though.
>>44252958
It's a bit of a stretch.
I would argue that Neo's ordeal only happens at the end when the agents arrest his avatar. But to make the formula fit you have to define it differently and make breaking out Morpheus his ordeal. Yet he doesn't die and isn't reborn, not even a little.
But for a 'return to normal' life it is not the hero who must become their former self, but their peers from the beginning who must now see them in their new form, which benefits all. It's enough for Neo to visit the Matrix, he doesn't have to get reintegrated (which isn't possible).
>>44253200
And of course Neo has no peers in his former life except the dude who buys hacker chits from him in the beginning.
>>44253200
>Yet he doesn't die and isn't reborn, not even a little.
Wait, what? He was shot to death by Agent Smith and came back to life because he was The One.
Neo underwent the most literal death and rebirth scene outside of the Bible.
>>44253200
I've always felt the return to normal life has to be the hero actively trying to return to his previous lifestyle, with a few changes.
Or settling down/retiring.
Simply visiting the same place you came from, especially only incidentally, and with more story to tell isn't enough.
For instance, if Frodo had returned to the shire via eagle because he forgot to hire someone to plant sit at the end of the Fellowship of the Ring, that wouldn't qualify as the final stage of the heroes journey.
Similarly, Neo returning to an unspecified city in the matrix to show off his super powers/deliver an ultimatum to the agents at the end of the first matrix doesn't qualify either.
>>44253281
The issue at hand is when did this occur. My argument is that it's in the showdown, not act 2.
>>44253265
All unawakened are his peers at the beginning.
I just went over my next adventure with this list and it totally unblocked my story.
Will post results when finished.
>>44252958
A possible interpretation of the return at the end is the focus on the hero bringing the gift he acquired on his journey back to his hometown or starting place. In Neo's case, that would be him going back into the Matrix as The One, casually walking into a phonebooth unnoticed and unmolested by agents and making the phone call to the machines vowing to awaken and save everybody else.
>>44253338
The thing about the Hero's Journey that never seemed right to me is Campbell puts the big action climax in the second act instead of near the end of the story where it actually usually occurs.
>>44254107
That's just because myths didn't use to follow Hollywood pacing.
Imagine the situation. These stories were told at night over drinks. The audience would start falling asleep half way through, so you put the meat where most are still with you and make sure the rest is catharsis and closure.
Hollywood is notorious for a too strict adherence to a 3 act formula and horribly contrived third acts.
>>44252282
Aren't 8 and 11 the same thing?
>>44254340
Even in Lord of the Rings, the walk there is three books and then the walk home and Scouring of the Shire is only what, two or three chapters?
In what myth was the walk home ever an entire half of the story?
>>44252238
To put it in the simplest terms, just follow the plot of Twilight Princess and then apply it to your story
>>44257117
The Odyssey?
>>44252282
>>44252310
What happens if the hero refuses the call and goes back to his ordinary life? Has anyone ever done a story like that?
>>44257117
The Odyssey.
>>44257181
That is the Refusal of the Call, the hero rejects the journey and tries to return to ordinary life, but he will eventually have to answer it because the opposing force and/or its actions directly affect him and his life.
If you played Super Paper Mario you know how if you say no to Merlon at the beginning of the game he's like "well okay I guess we'll just get our asses handed to us then have fun" and then it goes to Game Over? That's a pretty accurate description of what will happen if the hero never answers the call.
>>44252544
Naw, Star Wars: A New Hope is the most literal.
>>44257266
No, I mean a novel or other story where this happens and the story continues on, maybe following other characters or something. Like Far Cry 4 does thisby just having you meet your dad and going off to do the thing you came for rather than being dragged into the railroaded campaign.
>>44257326
Not any that I know or can think of, stories almost never do such a thing because it makes the hero seem like a coward and/or makes for a way too boring of a story.
I guess the closest I think of is that period of time in which Peter Parker tried to stop being Spider-Man, which was adapted into the second movie of the old series, but he eventually had to return to being Spider-Man because his refusal of the responsibility put others in jeopardy.
>>44252238
You can also use the Major Arcana. Normal / reverse, switch it up sometimes, but never all at once.
Fool - Beginning of a journey, a new paradigm / Hesitation or foolishness
Magician - Reassurance of skills, power to start or create / Ill use, lack, or lack of confidence in skill or choices
Priestess - Education or knowledge, known or gained, a mystery / Ignorance or lack of foresight, a deception
Empress - Security, abundance of wealth, goals achieved / Financial difficulty, lack of achievement or loss of power
Emperor - Power, reason, self control, responsibility and ambition / Loss or dislike of authority; weakness; immaturity, especially emotionally
Hierophant - Religion, guidance, formal education, sound advice / Bad advice, poor impressions, distortion of the truth, weakness of kindness
Lovers - A trial or test, especially of intuition, but one that should be passed; harmony and union; a choice of two paths / A failed test, disharmony or internal conflict
Chariot - Triumph and overcoming obstacles, power through decisiveness, control / Envy, loss of control, destruction, ambition, triumph of outdated ideas
Strength - Courage, self control, fortitude, generosity, power of spirit or character / Physical power, perhaps wrongly used; inadequacy or lack of will; surrender
Hermit - Prudence, counsel, planning, spiritual guidance, and the need for these / Refusal of the former, paranoia, physical or spiritual seclusion and isolation
Fortune - Good fortune, luck, karma, and success due to them; positive upheaval / Bad of any of the former, refusal to change, interruptions or delays
Justice - Fair resolution of conflict, triumph over prejudice, clarity, balance / Opposite of the former, injustice, confusion, justice delayed
Hanged Man - Gain through sacrifice, rebirth, circumstances are reversed / Oppression and apathy, selfishness and failure to let go
Cont.
>>44257913
Death - Deep and major change of self, circumstances, or life for the better, (NOT death) / Unpleasant or fear of change, refusal to let go
Temperance - The coming together of parts or people, cooperation, harmony / Failure of the former, stress
Devil - Obsession, burden, and desire of the material; but for good or success / Evil, greed, ambition, bondage; the former but for evil
Tower - Disaster, violent loss, ruin, (death); consequences / Lesser forms of the former, negativity, restriction
Star - Hope, renewal, healing, inspiration, promise / Self doubt, stubbornness, unwillingness or inability to adapt to change
Moon - Illusion, deception, loss of control / The former but worse, trickery, despair
Sun - Happiness, approval, inspiration, energy / The former but lesser or diminishing; bad forms of the former, such as hyperactivity
Judgement - Change and improvement, renewal / Delay and stagnation, lack or loss of progress, separation, guilt
World - Fulfillment, completion, the finishing of a journey, success / Delay, fear of change, distrust, a false finish, inertia
These can also be people or characters, not just events. Especially those in the first five or the Hermit.
You can run through every single thing, one of each card, or even do a 'reading' or random 10-15. At the very least, it's a good inspiration.
>>44257181
Then it's not a fucking story.
Why would anyone write something so stupid and pointless like that?
Is subversion of established narrative structures that important?
Jesus.
>>44257913
>>44258271
Is /x/ full?
>>44260456
/x/ is never full
But it can be insufferable
>>44260624
I like /x/.
It is as insufferable as /tg/ has become, but it's considerably slower.
>>44260728
I like /x/ too, but you get some real weird people there.
>>44257160
>>44257234
Well that's the trip home being the entire story, not half.
Does the Odyssey even fit the Monomyth structure?
>>44261676
Only on a comedy level.
Using the Hero's Journey doesn't hurt but you shouldn't slavishly stick to it. In fact many famous genre novels stick to it but also know when to deconstruct it.
Dune for example follows the Monomyth very closely only to completely deconstruct it in the end and then later play it straight in one of the sequels.
>>44252936
Wow, that guy writes like an idiot.
The monomyth is an oversimplification of storytelling and trying to explain all mythology with it is completely fucking stupid.
