Basically what the title says: post stuff about RPGs that makes you cringe.
Example:
> whenever a system refers to itself as an "engine."
Have seen both Apocalypse World and Savage Worlds described like this and I cringed hard when I read it. The attempt to be "different" turned me off of both systems til I actuallly tried them and found out they were pretty decent. Still consider the use of "engine" instead of "system" to be cringeworthy as fuck.
What about you, /tg/?
Mechanical differences between male and female characters.
It's not even an SJW thing, I just don't want even more reasons for the grognards my GM allows in his group to play female characters EVERY FUCKING GAME. If there are any mechanical differences between genders, even if females are worse, they'll come up with some reason why their character build NEEDS to be female because they're all a bunch of Magical-Realming faggots.Someday I'll find a decent online group.
>>44239081
>Someday I'll find a decent online group
Not with your attitude you won't. Or at least you won't keep it. You'll just meltdown over the most petty crap and ignore any fun going on, if this thread is any indication.
>>44238953
Not a fan of the term "engine" either but you have to admit Powered by the Apocalypse Engine sounds cool
>>44238953
never heard that term, 'universal system' is what I've usually heard. Apart from the vidya comparion though, i don't really see an issue with the term 'engine'.
>>44238953
>The Caster/Martial gap.
Mostly I'm not sure if there's a good way to actually deal with this. Giving martials magical techniques feels like weeaboo fightan magic, but nerfing casters to be a same power level as martials kinda makes casters feel like needlessly complicated characters with no real payoff.
I've heard that limiting them to a single school of magic works well, but I have yet to actually try this in a game ever.
>>44238953
I've noticed recently that I have grown a dire hatred towards d%.
I have no clue where it came from, just one day realised I just fucking hate it.
And I'd been happily planning my Judge Dredd for DH2e the day before that.
>>44239323
>I've heard that limiting them to a single school of magic works well
This. The thing that makes spellcasters OP isn't the spells themselves (unless you're playing 3.5 D&D), it's the sheer range of spells available, with a decent utility caster being more useful than the entire party in most systems.
Limiting the caster to a single school means they aren't able to replace the entire party with a spell for everything, while still having access to some high level stuff.
>>44239323
>>44239430
Enjoy having a bunch of Transmuters and Conjurors, both schools that, yes, on their OWN, can singularly replace the party.
>>44239430
With a feat at some point to allow second school up to half of cl?
>>44239081
There's a reason -4S existed anon. And it's not just the misogyny.
>Imagine, if you will, a superhero role-playing game that emulates how comicbooks actually work. When comic writers sit down to pen a story, they don't have a character sheet in front of them that defines precisely what the characters can do... how strong or agile they are, what skills they demonstrate, what the exact parameters of their powers are.
>Instead, they give the characters what the story demands of them. If the story requires the power-armored hero to have stealth armor, he'll most likely have it on hand. Should it be critical that the hero with the magic amulet needs to generate a mystic shield, you can almost bank on her getting it. Does the hero with normal human strength desperately need to lift a gargantuan chunk of concrete off of his ally? Chances are, he'll be able to muster up the power to do so.
Never been turned off a game as quickly as the time I read that.
>>44239081
I wonder if the tentacle monster realizes that's a trap?
>>44238953
I didn't realize what you meant until that last sentence. Yeah, tabletop game "engines" turn me off, too. It was subtle, but their use if defining themselves this way actually turned me off to them, a little.
>>44238953
Just a few things. Also the phrase 'gritty realism' has, for me, come to equate itself with GMs who aren't actually in touch enough with reality to actually make a good simulationist game; and are often gravely misinformed about what makes a 'gritty' setting entertaining in the first place. If your idea of 'gritty realism' is an outlet for your future tales of TPKs, the ones that were just so 'bwootal' and 'wheelistic,' then I'd rather sit at a table that just wants to play John Woo. I say this despite really liking simulationist systems that sell themselves as 'gritty.'
>>44239424
If you play online, the way algorithm based RNG works mean that, more often than not, you're going to roll a lot of the same or similar values. Crit failures are way too fucking common for d100 systems when played digitally.
>>44239430
I've always wanted to play as an Enchanter, but the opportunity hasn't come up.
Just straight enchantments, only allowed to take other spells as cantrips.
>>44239561
What RPG said that?
>>44240027
Capes, Cowls and Villains Foul
>>44240064
Even the titles is wanky.
>>44238953
>post stuff about RPGs that makes you cringe.
>whenever a system refers to itself as an "engine."
People getting hung up on semantics makes me cringe.
>>44239323
It can definitely be done. Fantasy Craft does a good job of keeping martials and casters on even footing, to name one example I'm pretty familiar with.
I think it really takes a system carefully geared from the ground up to support balanced classes, rather than simply adjusting the classes themselves regardless of the core elements of the system. For instance, FC's class balance definitely is in part due to giving the class features and feats for martial characters a buff and reining in spells, but even more than that are how the system is designed on a fundamental level with regard to skills, combat mechanics, and NPC stats.
Making sure casters don't have access to spells that let them totally replace multiple other party members or straight up hijack the course of the campaign is definitely important, as is giving martials cool and useful class features. But the most important thing is making sure that everyone, regardless of class, has a number of different useful options to allow for varied tactics depending on the circumstances, and a wide enough base of competence that they aren't dead weight when their main strength isn't applicable. And that's a lot easier to accomplish from the end of core system design philosophy than in the suite of specific abilities provided by your class.
>>44239081
I used to think that good rules make the /tg/, now I see that the right people make the difference.
>>44240430
Indeed, good rules can help, but a bad group can ruin even the best of systems, and with a good group even a pretty crappy system can be a lot of fun.
>>44238953
I'm with you Op. Stuff like that is a window into the developers psyche. Someone sat down and decided that they weren't going to refer to the system as what it actually is, they were going to refer to it by a totally different name just to avoid fitting in.
>Magic is like cheat codes to the universe
>Magic is arcane formula that is prepared, the final bit finished only when a spell is cast
>Really specific and unfun magical spells in general
>>44240227
I dare you to lie to me and tell me absolutely no word induces rage in you, and that you cannot see why some words are clear indicators of some degeneracy on the speakers part
For example: I fucking hate the word "Netty-Pot" with the force of one thousand suns
>>44240794
>specific
>unfun
Maybe if you have no imagination.
>>44240834
>Netty-Pot
That's not a word.
>>44240846
>Maybe if you have no imagination.
Nice joke. Many spells (mostly going off DnD here) are written in an almost trollish way where they take out all the fun possibilities of the spell, but yet they leave in extremely overpowered spells like Sleep or Summon spells. It's ivory tower game design and it's very, very bad.
>>44239996
I did this once as a Kitsune, although I took Illusion as well.Yes, I felt like a dirty japanophile weeaboo afterwards.
>>44240896
Pre-WotC D&D actually lets you do interesting things with spells, especially if you have a DM worth the title.
>>44240846
Sorry Its Spelled "Neti-Pot"
My fucking bad
>>44238953
When someone says Freeform RPG.
Also, caster supremacy makes me cringe, because it's a thing and I hate it.
>>44239561
Also, this.
>>44240834
Not that anon, but I fail to see how using the word 'engine' in place of 'system' is remotely degenerate. A little unorthodox, yes, but the general idea is to describe a game mechanic you roll a die or dice when confronted with a situation where randomness or variation to an outcome matters, insert a modifier based on context, and receive a result. The word itself doesn't even matter, I get damn idea.
And to answer your question, no, not really. The context in which a word can be used? Sure. You using a keyboard in any circumstance, for example, provides the context of a flaming homo given the ability to communicate. The word itself? No, it's just a word
I hate that /tg/ shits its panties whenever Fate, GUMSHOE, or Powered by the Apocalypse come up.
Story games are absolutely stellar for the people who hate the fact that this hobby has been a crunchy nightmare for the last few decades.
>>44241062
>people who hate the fact that this hobby has been a crunchy nightmare for the last few decades.
These people we call 'whingers'.
>>44241062
This, though I personally prefer systems with a little mechanical crunch but freeform story systems.
>>44241006
Literally applying a new unnecessary label, when one already exists, and is heavily used, is degenerate, and a sign of someone trying to be a special snowflake
>>44239081>Men get a penalty to shot for getting hit in the groin
>>44241062
I don't hate "story-games". I hate people think you NEED free-form rules to have a good story... and I hate people who abuse "story-games" as an excuse to make bullshit Mary Sue Special-Snowflakes who are good at everything and spend the entire game trying to make the entire story about how much more angsty their character is than the rest of the party or how much more awsome and badass their character is than the rest of the players.
>>44241076
Why are you so defensive, anon?
>>44241085
Hope that Kool-Aid was tasty.
I cannot stand that GG-tier idiots are such a vocal minority here on /tg/.
>>44241140
Nice rebuttal
>>44241134
Because my ears are sensitive to the bleating of the masses. I hate it more than I hate the crying of babies.
>>44238953
Special Dice, especially the FFG Star Wars special dice
It's annoying. Manageable since you can typically just use ordinary dice and just substitute the numbers, but still very annoying
>>44241171
FUDGE dice are the only ones of those that are acceptable, because they're actually useful for things other than playing FATE.
>>44241206
Really? What else?
>>44241171
Fudge/Fate works just fine with regular d6.
>>44241248
Bell curves of a specified maximum width and arbitrary centre. NdF+X gives a bell curve with extremes of X+-N.
>special snowflake characters
Look I can dig if you want to be different, but stating that your character was:
>abandoned at birth
>raised by barbarians in the wilderness
>fought some large creature at 13 and survived
>and given a special weapon once you left the tribe
and all other edgy things makes me want to kill you off in the most mundane way possible.
>>44241320
That sounds perfectly reasonable. Pretty cool even. It's certainly better than the typical raised by wolves. 13 isn't an unreasonable age to go hunt something large to prove your manhood either, especially in a fantasy world. Giving them a special weapon wouldn't be out of place either. Probably not something magic, but it's a nice symbolic gesture.
Or would you rather they be the typical 'Barbarian born in a lone tribe, went hunting, came back, tribe dead'?
>>44241320
>>44241320
That sounds like a pretty typical barbarian origin story to me. Hardly special snowflake at all really.
>>44241430
That Guy detected.
>>44241474
And now you've started assuming things. Truly you're an enlightened being.
Did you know that there is a system that is basically there just for snowflakes, like Exalted? Perhaps you shouldn't play that and state your expectations with the other players to avoid these situations in the first place..
>>44241474
How exactly does >>44241320 compare with that pic you just posted? How is it special snowflake at all?
It's a very standard barbarian. They're not secretly a demigod or anything (though that would be a neat plot-hook for the DM to add at higher levels).
They're just someone who was raised by barbarians, and is fairly strong for a barbarian. They're not possessed by some nature spirit that lets them fly, or able to talk to wolves. If they get to a city they'll be a fish out of water, and their social skills probably aren't great. They don't have any magic.
It's just a barbarian with a backstory.
>>44240794
Uh, this. "magic is like a programming language for the world" and in generale the attitude of sucking out all the mystic and wonder of fantasy worlds in order to explain everything rationally. I thought people liked fantasy games because of imagination.
>>44241320
If you think that counts as "special snowflake" then you have never seen an actual special snowflake character
>>44240914
Not really. WHat the spell did was clearly written and defined in inches or feet or whatever. There were some emergin properties of applying real-world logic, but that wasn't a merit of the system.
>>44241127
I hate people who use "story games" as if it was in opposition to "real" roleplaying games, or make baseless assumptions on the tone and themes of such games.
>>44241524
>>44241320
A rather well-rounded backstory at that. It gives him a potential motivation or plot hook (finding his real family), a support base he can go back to or the DM can use for plot hooks (the tribe), a story he can tell the other party members to display that he is a competent adventurer (killing a monster when he was 13), and a special weapon, which gives him something to care about, bring up in conversations to mention his tribe, and potentially tie in to plot hooks if the DM wants to do something more with it.
Really, there's a lot to work with there just from the basic description.
>>44241539
>WHat the spell did was clearly written and defined in inches or feet or whatever.
>This somehow stops you doing interesting things with it
Have you had somebody look at your brain recently? There seems to be something wrong with your imagination.
>>44241554
Do you want a roleplaying GAME, or do you wana write fanfiction with your friends?
>>44241320
I didn't know "average barbarian PC" was edgy.
>>44241418
>>44241464
>>44241524
>>44241556
There was a bunch of other shit too that made nearly made him a snowflake.
Mainly that his weapon was just too powerful to start off with when everyone else in the party was hitting with normal shit.
Discussed to tone down his weapon and now he's a little more bearable.
>>44241594
>There was a bunch of other shit too that made nearly made him a snowflake.
Oh sure. Post it, then.
>>44241576
Do you seriously think that there is no "game" in storygames?
If anything, they have a bunch of unique mechanics for scene resolution, while a lot of more "traditional" games work on the same principle except for making you roll different dice.
>>44241594
What? Did he just show up with a magic weapon without asking? Or did he take a greataxe when everyone else was using longswords, and his damage was just really good?
>>44241572
If you say so. Compare D&D systems to the many others that let you make up your own spells, and tell me if "grease + burning hands" is still the peak of creativity.
D&D players are always so defensive.
>>44241607
Then they're not the freeform brand of games >>44241127
mentioned. You pretty much started an argument just to start an argument. That or you completely missed the point.
>>44241594
What system?
People reeeeing about normies.
>>44241622
To me it seems that you have no real familiarity with these so-called "storygames".
"Freeform" does not mean that there are no rules.
>>44241677
Unfortunately I have all too much familiarity with them.
>>44241601
Aside from what was listed:
>Nearly escaped death several times growing up through infancy
>Friend to necromancers and shit, making no sense with Barbarian background
>apparently killed a young dragon when he was 14 by himself.
and other shit which I tuned out.
>>44241614
The former.
>>44241623
D&D 5th
>>44241643
Get the fuck out, you normie shit!!!!
>>44241732
That does sound pretty stupid. I was thinking he killed something like a bear or tiger as part of some sort of tribal initiation thing.
>>44241618
I didn't say it was the peak of creativity. That'sRitual Path Magic. I said it wasn't nearly as anti-creativity as you said it was.
>>44241677
>"Freeform" does not mean that there are no rules.
If it has rules, like actual mechanical rules, it's not free.
>>44239323
>Mostly I'm not sure if there's a good way to actually deal with this.
If you're using Pathfinder, I've found that the Words of Power system works wonders. Magic users can still do some impressive things, but the scope of what they can do is far more limited. There's nothing like shadow conjuration/evocation, wish, simulacrum, or the really world- and game-breaking things. At the same time, though, the way magic is used is a lot more versatile... being able to use a high level spell slot to combine multiple low level words, for example. And the versatility of spontaneous casters is a lot more pronounced, since you can put together your spells on the fly... for example, a Sorcerer only needs to know spark to be able to cast is as a melee touch, ranged touch, line, cone, or burst, while a Wizard would have to prepare it as one specific type each time. So not only does it help bridge the gap between martials and casters, it also helps bridge the gap between prepared and spontaneous casters.
I really like the system, I just wish Paizo had given it more support than the one little chapter in Ultimate Magic.
>>44241732
Yeah, unless it was a wyrmling, that does sound rather out-there. Still, it's not quite what I'd call special snowflake. It's the sort of thing that could still be explained by them not fully understanding powerlevel. For a level 5 barbarian, for example, those sorts of things would be more reasonable.
>>44241430
Wait, this is what you consider to be a special snowflake? That's like, fucking every single swords and sorcery hero ever. The hell is wrong with you?
>>44240905
>Kitsune
>Posting Kumiho
>>44241851
>If it has rules, like actual mechanical rules, it's not free.
Actual mechanical rules as opposed to? Non-mechanical rules?
>>44242010
>Non-mechanical rules?
Yes, like social guidelines and shit. Even Amber Diceless still uses numbers.
>>44242042
A lack of dice does not mean "non-mechanical" rules.
>>44241618
>tell me if "grease + burning hands" is still the peak of creativity
I don't think that even works anymore.
>>44242071
Which is why I mentioned Amber Diceless you illiterate buffoon.
>>44242222
>Implying "social guidelines" are passable as rules or a functioning game.
Lol, OK bro.
>>44242246
What? Amber Diceless still has numbers that you use to describe your characters stats and abilities, they're just used like Top Trumps or something where the highest number wins.
>>44240926
Those things are great if you have sinus problems though.
I didn't realize humans could feel as good as I did when I first used one.
Wait, is it the item itself, or just the name that triggers your autistic rage?
>>44239323
Ideally, if the game is high magic, then martials are allowed and expected to be fantastic, because power is implicitly accessible, and the problem of scale becomes a choice of style.
Likewise, in a lower magic game where martials are expected to be grounded in reality, magic should require just as much effort to become proficient in, and hold drawbacks equal to the scale it exceeds mundane ability. In this way, the problem of scale becomes a choice of risks.
But as you seem to mean D&D in specific, there's not much to say besides that the tiers exist, and so does rule 0.
>>44242275
Oh god, you use those things? You're pretty lucky you're not dead, or you're being intelligent about it, it's really easy to accidentally give yourself nasal gangrene with those, it's also really easy to avoid it, so I guess it evens out.
>>44241285
How often will that come up in other games though?
>"The stone gollum interposes itself between you and the lick, closing to mealy range and striking at the puh-laddin with his fowl-chai-on. Meanwhile, the necromancer takes a drought of healing eggs-ler."
Please stop. There's only so much I can take, and I'm afraid I'm going to accidentally start talking like you, like somebody in a foreign country picks up the accent.
>>44242042
I don't know WTF you are even talking about.
Go fucking read some games instead of spewing ignorant bullshit.
>>44242521
>>Go fucking read some games
>someone posts something I don't understand
>they must not play TTRPGs
>>44242431
How are you supposed to pronounce golem then?
Goal-em?
>>44242551
You do realize that these supposed "freeform storytelling games" that have "social guidelines" insted of "mechanical rules" actually add numbers to the social or personal aspect of the characters? It might not be a straight number, but "roll an extra die when this is relevant" is functionally the same thing.
The only game I can think of that fits your bullshit criteria is Fiasco, and even there you have to roll dice to determine the outcome of what is going on, and the game clearly states what happens based on the result of the roll, so it's still a "mechanical rule".
I really don't understand what the hell you are getting at.
>>44242574
>Goal-em?
Exactly.
http://www.merriam-webster.com/dictionary/golem
http://www.oxforddictionaries.com/us/definition/american_english/golem
>>44242605
I was talking about actual freeform.
>>44242644
Good for you, because we were talking about "storygames".
Freeform, as in forum freeform everybody writes whatever he wants, is another matter.
>>44242660
>we were talking about "storygames".
No, this thread of the conversation came from me defining freeform as something without mechanical rules.
>>44241140
>lobbying for more labels and acting like someone else drank the kool-aid.
The fuck are you on about?
>>44239561
>>Instead, they give the characters what the story demands of them. If the story requires the power-armored hero to have stealth armor, he'll most likely have it on hand. Should it be critical that the hero with the magic amulet needs to generate a mystic shield, you can almost bank on her getting it. Does the hero with normal human strength desperately need to lift a gargantuan chunk of concrete off of his ally? Chances are, he'll be able to muster up the power to do so.
Christ, who has written this, Bendis?
Comic book fans are legendary anal about power levels.
>>44238953
>When they play my mixtape at the disco
>>44241474
Y'know, i get that a lot of these hedgehogs are supposed to be something we see as cringe worthy or Mary sues but honestly, a lot of them just make me kinda sad. I mean they create something they typically aren't.
>strong brave hedgehog for a kid who's picked on a lot
>fox with lots of friends because the kid has no friends for whatever reason
>edgy mean powerful hedgehog for kid who feels helpless and the whole world is against them.
It just kinda makes me a little sad to think about the people making these. Maybe I'm reading too far into it. Who knows. Just my thoughts
>>44242994
I remember seeing a really badly drawn Sonic OC (at least I think it was Sonic) that seemed pretty generic and stupid at first. Then you got down to their Likes and Dislikes, one of their Dislikes was "dialysis machines".
That just painted the saddest fucking picture of the creator imaginable.
>>44242875
>that filename
Usually sniper rifles have way more momentum and weight in their shots. Just saying.
>>44242959
nah bro, your mix tape is fire!
>>44242875
And yet there have been superhero comics that poorly define what their character's powers can do, or just suddenly seem to pull some BS power from out of nowhere. It doesn't happen as often as it used to, but it still happens.
>>44242431
>mealy range
>puh-laddin
>fowl-chai-on
Fucking hilarious.
>>44240064
I take titles like that more seriously when they use the Oxford comma.
>>44243105
>pal-ay-din
>Skimitar
Even worse.
>>44243050
These guys were shown to be able to take an assault rifle burst and not even flinch. As silly as they are, they are powerhouses.
And then Bendis writes them getting shot dead in a stupid way because they're B/C-list villains, so no one cares, right?
Mind you, Bendis tends to forget the stuff he wrote himself, like Daredevil introducing himself out of costume to Parker in Ultimate universe and later when DD died, Parker removed his mask to say he has no idea who that is.
Not to mention his habit to write everyone speaking like they've just walked off Senifeld.
Dunno who is the most hated current writer in /co/, him or Slott.
>>44242431
fucking christ
>>44243118
>Not to mention his habit to write everyone speaking like they've just walked off Senifeld.
Bendis gets my vote. Always has, always will.
>>44242994
Oh man I just had a terrible idea for a campaign where all the players play as kids who made terrible ocs for some kids show only to have them come to life. Set it up like digimon and have a team of autistic kids fighting evil marysue ocs to save the world.
>>44243136
Surprisingly what works on TV doesn't really work that well for comics. Who knew different mediums had different rules?
Also it's weird when every single character talks like this, never mind if it's Spider-Man, Wolverine, Thor or Thanos.
>>44243147
That sounds pretty good, actually.
>>44243147
Chris-Chan's creations cameo as novelty bosses.
>>44243116
>Paula Deen
>>44243156
That would make a great secret identity for a super-heroine named Paladin.
>>44243044
Oh gods that's depressing. That kinda hurt to know.
The one that always kinda hit me was the one who had a hedgehog who under dislikes he had something like "when my brother beats me" and he talked about how the hedgehog protects him from his brother.
>>44243185
Nigga, I don't need these feels right now!
>>44243185
Well, uh. At least it isn't his dad?
>>44243227
>At least it isn't his dad?
https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=oQp7Id8iRA4
Guess again.
>>44238953
I can't see how the use of one word over another would would be something to complain about, much less notice. I play Savage Worlds, and I had no idea it called itself an engine. It doesn't matter anyway, it's just a word.
>>44243116
>Skimitar
Scimitar is such a common word that I'm surprised anybody can fuck it up. I have heard people talk about skythed chariots though.
>>44239323
>I've heard that limiting them to a single school of magic works well, but I have yet to actually try this in a game ever.
Do this
As you gain xp you must put into a class.
To reach a specific level in some class, you need the amount of level would be needed to reach the level without multiclassing PLUS 1
Each player start with 1000 points and must spend all those points into a level.
When you spend points into into a caster, you MUST share those points between schools (universal is a school).
This limits the max spell level you can cast from some school and max spells per day to ALL school
The max spell level you can cast on some school, is the max spell level you would be able to cast if you spend all this points (you spend on this school) on this class without multiclassing.
You do the same to find the amount of spells per day to each spell level, but here you take the sum of each school spell per level per day and multiply per 2. This ( unlike max spell level you can cast) will be shared between all schools.
>>44240794
>>Magic is like cheat codes to the universe
How is this unfun?
Magic can be almost anything and still be the cheat codes of the universe
>>44239946
>If you play online, the way algorithm based RNG works mean that, more often than not, you're going to roll a lot of the same or similar values. Crit failures are way too fucking common for d100 systems when played digitally.
Only if the RNG you use is total crap.
>>44243147
>kids who made terrible ocs for some kids show only to have them come to life. Set it up like digimon...
That sort of happened in one of the Digimon series. What's-his-face sketched out Guilmon in his notepad and then it got scanned by a digivice he found.
>>44243378
Because the terminology is really shit. Using the term 'cheat code' or 'programming' in general robs magic of its mystically and all the fun shit that goes with it.
The worst part is when people use the cheat code analogy, they rarely ever actually make magic similar to cheat codes in any way. Cheat codes don't let you shoot fire from your hands, they give you unlimited ammo or godmode or infinite money, that sort of thing. They manipulate currently existing variables in the game world or in this case the actual fantasy world.
>>44238953
I don't think you know what cringeworthy means.
>>44241528
>nd in generale the attitude of sucking out all the mystic and wonder of fantasy worlds in order to explain everything rationally. I thought people liked fantasy games because of imagination.
WHAT?
Magic being the cheat code of the universe, is just basically a way to say:
"LOOK, you will read this book and will have more information (and in a more specific way) about magic than even the most powerfull games in this game universe. But you will not cast it, while they can, because their universe allow it but ours dont. DEAL WITH IT"
>>44243398
>Cheat codes don't let you shoot fire from your hands, they give you unlimited ammo or godmode or infinite money, that sort of thing. They manipulate currently existing variables in the game world or in this case the actual fantasy world.
On some cases they do.
The point of the word cheat code is that the world can function without magic, but magic is still part of universe stuff.
Like remove the cheat codes of ultimate doom game as some example and doom still work as usual
>>44242431
What's the egg-ler thing?
>>44242574
Go-lem. As in, "I'll GO over there".
>>44243542
Elixir
>>44243573
...How could you pronounce that any way but the "correct" way? X works pretty simply in English except for when it's at the start of words.
>>44243149
Any new edits?
>>44243362
"How do I rein in the power of casters?"
"Add a bunch of pointless complication so that nobody will bother playing them."
>>44243587
>...How could you pronounce that any way but the "correct" way?
Reading to quickly, usually, or talking faster than your brain can keep up.
>>44243156
What would a Paladin of Paula Deen be like?
>>44238953
>Player refers to it's character as "toon"
Triggered as fuck
>>44241430
You understand that your pic is literally the purpose of the thread, right?
>>44238953
>can i have a katana?
>>44243765
There was one for the latest thing, "Tales of Sinterest"
http://bgrevln8fu.tumblr.com/post/134611494573
>>44243298
Non-Native english speaker here.
Is the c in both silent?
>>44243298
>Scimitar is such a common word
Only among gamers or other fantasy enthusiasts (or SCA/HEMA types, I suppose). It wouldn't surprise me if somebody coming in from a non-fantasy background might get it wrong... or even coming in from a purely book-based fantasy background, for that matter. People who grew up on fantasy novels and whatnot know all too well the curse of having never heard a deceptively-spelled word out loud.
>>44238953
The more rolls it takes to resolve a single attack, the less I want the system. One feels a little simplistic, two is good, three is side eye worthy, four is oh god what are you doing please stop.
Anything that makes the initiative system complicated or obnoxious is also my bane.
So really what I'm saying here is I hate oWoD. (And before anyone tells me all about how WoD isn't that annoying to keep track of initiative or combat rolls in, it's Werewolf. Lots of multiple actions and soak rolls everywhere.)
>>44238953
The first time I've seen a game use "engine" to refer to itself was in the last edition of INS/MV (french game, you probably know it under the name "In Nomine").
The author briefly explains why this choice of words and it boils down to: a "system" suggest you have to activate it, an "engine" is something that drives itself forward; By changing his "system" for an "engine", he hoped he and his team would make a smoother game, something that works "by itself".
Personally, I like this reasoning.
>>44242431
But "lick" is the correct pronunciation of lich, anon. What did you think it was, "leek"? "Litch"? "Leech"?
>>44244131
Proper pronunciation is /ˈlJtʃ/, or "litch".
>>44244131
You've been pronouncing lich wrong your whole life, anon.
>https://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Lich
>>44243766
>"How do I rein in the power of casters?"
>"Add a bunch of pointless complication so that nobody will bother playing them."
yes, just forcing players to pick just one school (universal is a school now) to each caster class they have levels in (but they can pick the same school to different caster classes) would be WAY easier
the previous post idea limit the spells level in a school the player can have, while allowing the player to still not be limited by one school.
>>44238953
People who take it all too seriously.
People who don't take it seriously enough.
>>44243298
I knew a cockmongler that insisted it was "SKEE-mi-tar". Because it was French. Also tome was "to-MAY", also french. After showing him the dictionary, he said the dictionary was wrong and we all sounded ignorant because of the way we pronounced words.
Last I heard dude was homeless and insisting that he was going to show up at a friends house to live regardless of what he said because he "is a better man" now that he's been in the army and no one can tell him no to anything.
>>44243116
>BLACK-guard
Then again, I seem to be the only person on the planet that realizes that blackguard rhymes with haggard.
>>44239081
gr8 b8 m8
>>44244570
What the fuck, we don't even pronouce it like that.
>>44242994
But anon, what you just described is an empathetic cringe. That's the biggest cringe you can feel.
>>44239323
How about actually giving casters abilities that actually draw on, you know, real mythology instead of what DnD has taught people is how fantasy worlds work? Let me play as Cu Chulainn who held off an entire army by defeating one champion after another in a battle that lasted months before hulking out and building a wall of corpses from enemy soldiers, or Roland, who held off an army of one-hundred thousand soldiers long enough for Charlemagne's forces to retreat, then tried to destroy his magic sword so it wouldn't be captured but instead created 300 foot deep gash in the in the Pyrenees mountains because he was so awesome. Or Beowulf, who just sorta hung out underwater for several hours hunting and fighting Grendel's Mother like it was no big deal.
If you look at actual real world legends, stories of super strong martial heroes far, far outweigh stories of magic dudes wielding cosmic power, and almost all of the latter were divinely empowered. That's practically an invention of the tabletop world.
![1432787690134[1].jpg](https://i.imgur.com/zh8k80v.jpg "1432787690134[1].jpg")
When it makes a point to cater to the perpetually offended.
Picture related.
>>44244570
>Also tome was "to-MAY", also french.
That sounds more Italian than anything.
In French, you just drop the last letter off most words, because they're too damn lazy to pronounce the whole thing.
>>44244757
>How about actually giving casters abilities
I think you meant martial.
100% with you by the way
I have a hard time thinking about a mythological wizard and I can't think of a single one that wasn't a demi-god, son of a demon or some shit.
For martials, it's easy
>>44244570
wot
We don't even say scimitar, we say "cimeterre" (like, sim-ter or so). And tome is just... tome. Just like in English.
>>44238953
How the fuck is "engine" as in "game engine" cringeworthy? Did games design terminology molest you as a child?
>>44244802
I work 35 hours a week and I only have five week of vacation. I don't have time to pronounce the end of every word I say.
>>44244798
Good GRIEF. Is that monstrosity real?
>>44243837
yea but it will prohably be of bad quality since your charakter isnt a ultra rich samurai and so it will break on an instand if it hits an european longsword
>>44243378
It's unfun because as soon as magic just means knowing the right word, your entire setting becomes retarded.
>>44244846
kek
>>44244846
>be American
>40 hours a week
>no vacation
>sometimes 60 hours a week if we were on overtime (usually were because upper management was fucking stupid)
>get shot
I hope that was a joke.
>>44244886
On average people work about 40 hours a week. 35 hours is just when you start gaining extra monies.
We do have a shitload of paid holidays tho. And most people I know even got extra holidays on-top of the mandatory ones (and also don't lose their jerb and go into debt when they get ill and need time off). Some are even paid a 13th month.
>>44244810
Right, thanks. Made myself look dumb.
I think you can trace the whole caster supremacy back to DnD basic, where Fighters were actually king because Magic Users had little to no control over what spells they learned, could be knocked over by a stiff breeze and generally existed as a Get Out of Jail Free card to cast Sleep (hopefully) if they party stumbled into a room full of goblins when they were down to their last hit points. Subsequent editions steadily chipped away at those vulnerabilities and expanded the wizard user's access to magic, but retained a certain fear that Fighters were still too good and so rarely gave them anything new to do. By the time you get to 3.5e, not only do Wizards have almost no weaknesses but the idea of "magic user" propogated into a dozen other classes that all had interesting and unique things to do, but the martials were pretty much stuck in the same ditch.
Say what you want about 4e, but at least it put martials and casters on the same footing.
>>44244857
>Good GRIEF. Is that monstrosity real?
Yes, I shit you not. It's from Mage: The Ascension.
>>44243957
Scythe and Scimitar are both pronounced with silent Cs.
Or, you could say they're 'soft' Cs since C is one of those consonants that have two sounds. Sometimes they sound like a K, as in card, sometimes a S as in cereal.
>>44244994
Even while trying to look around in mythos a bit, it's hard to found a "regular dude" who is a magician too.
Circe and Medea have divine origins. Ulysses and Perseus are humans.
I don't get why the DnD designers are so afraid of mythological heroes.
>>44239424
Probably you hate it because it's either used in systems with far too many tables to check at every action, or it ia smoothly replaceable with simpler dice
>>44245136
Why do we even have c's if both sounds they made can be made by other letters? Seems wasteful.
>>44244470
I mean, I suppose that sort of thing could be done in a much easier way, without messing around with complex EXP stuff.
"At each level in a spellcasting class, you gain one point to spend among the various schools of magic. You can't learn, prepare, or cast any spell of a higher level than the number of points you have in that spell's school. Such spells are not considered to be on your spell list. Your number of points in the Universal school are considered to be equal to the highest number of points you have in any other school."
This means that a starting 1st level Wizard can cast all 0 level spells, and any 1st level spell of one school. As they gain levels, they can either open up more schools, or specialize in two of them. A 7th level Wizard, for example, could have Enchantment 4, Illusion 3, and Transmutation 1, able to cast 4th level Enchantment and Universal spells, 3rd level Illusion spells, and 1st level Transmutation spells.
This also opens up the dabbler concept, someone who doesn't max out any one school, but learns a bit of each and then uses their higher level spell slots to metamagic the hell out of their spells. A 7th level Wizard with Abjuration 1, Conjuration 1, Divination 1, Enchantment 1, Evocation 1, Illusion 1, Necromancy 1, and Transmutation 1 wouldn't have a lot of high-power stuff to call upon, but they'd have a lot more versatility than the focused mage.
>>44243957
As silent as the w in sword.
>>44244597
It's another one of those words that most people read but never hear.
>>44239476
>MUH SOGGY KNEE
>>44245189
Because pic related.
Isn't english fun?
>>44245189
Blame the French, I think.
>>44239323
I never really experienced this - the groups I joined didn't attempt to make broken builds and actually built their characters in a way that was meant to support the group. There must be some real fuckin' assholes out there.
>>44245237
Isn't that a quote from Pratchett?
>>44245243
I do that regardless.
>>44239476
>And it's not JUST the misogyny.
>implying it's misogyny at all
>>44245189
That's like going to a really old town in Europe and asking why the streets aren't laid out in a nice organized fashion. We didn't plan this shit out, it grew up around us as we used it, constantly being shaped and reshaped to fit our needs.
>>44238953
when a system dose not allow me to take skills that would make my cherecter 3D because they are locked away behinde arbitraty class restrictions. If i want my fighter to be a kick ass flute player i will have him be a kick ass flute player and i dont give a fuck what bards feal about it
>>44245257
It is? It might be. Sounds like something he'd say or write.
>>44245189
Alright, here's what we're going to do. From here on out:
>soft c -> s
>hard c -> k
>ch -> c
Language solved. You kan thank me later.
>>44245253
It doesn't matter how you build them, the fact remains that casters will have more and more powerful options than martials. You don't have to have asshole players for that to be true. And even if your casters build solely for support, it can still suck quite a bit to be the guy whose main draw is "I have a sword." when the guy next to you is literally reshaping reality on a whim.
That's why people like Path of War so much... it still doesn't make martials as powerful as casters, but it does give them more options, and more interesting options, making them much more fun to play.
>>44245303
>ch -> c
>Not ś
>>44241147
>minority
>idiots
You wish.
>>44245325
Only sissy, baby languages have aksent marks.
>>44245359
Touché
>>44245257
Nah, it's apparently from some nerd named James Nicoll.
Full quote is:
>"The problem with defending the purity of the English language is that English is about as pure as a cribhouse whore. We don't just borrow words; on occasion, English has pursued other languages down alleyways to beat them unconscious and rifle their pockets for new vocabulary."
>>44243118
>when DD died, Parker removed his mask to say he has no idea who that is.
Isn't Matt Murdock a famous lawyer?
There must be pictures of him around in news stories and shit, at least.
>>44244798
God damn that is a lot of words and pompousness to say "gender is not a factor in this game "
>>44245199
>This means that a starting 1st level Wizard can cast all 0 level spells, and any 1st level spell of one school. As they gain levels, they can either open up more schools, or specialize in two of them. A 7th level Wizard, for example, could have Enchantment 4, Illusion 3, and Transmutation 1, able to cast 4th level Enchantment and Universal spells, 3rd level Illusion spells, and 1st level Transmutation spells.
The problem with this simplfied idea, is that levels arent linear, they not only cost more XP, but a level 9 guy that spent all his levels in necromancy spending level entire level 10 to get first a level one in some other school.
>>44245141
Mythological heroes aren't realistic
>>44244857
Yes. That's from Mage: the Ascension 20th anniversary edition, which can technically be summed up as "being so stubborn about your identity politics that it gives you magic powers: the game".
>>44245507
Wizards too mate
>>44245214
>he doesn't pronounce it swodrellThat's as in "swaddle" and "Jodrell Bank".
>>44238953
The whole Fey shebang makes me cringe. I just hate it.
>The lol-trickster aspect, everything is illusions, I can make any asspull anytime.
>Muh nature. Let's sit in the meadow with my hot topic outfit.
>I read about mental illnesses on Wikipedia, kooky crazy characters.
>Always look elf+ sexy, indeed look like anything because changeling.
>Oh look Alice in Wonderland punk version, so creative right?
>now just add cthulhu crossover, so horror, much spooky
>>44240794
It's difficult to make magic more mysterious while having codified rules to make sure you're balanced and clear on what you can and can't do.
I've thought about this though. My solution was similar to D&D magic, but material components dictated what spells you could cast, and each component had some effect on the spell and casting time. For instance: salt causes fire effects and clay lets you make throwable spells. So you can make a fireball of varied size and strength depending on the amounts used. Codify a bunch of components, and you've got variable spells more open to player and GM interpretation. You could use the rules as they are in the game, or use rebuilt spells and it build your own for the players if you want more control. It would become a spreadsheet simulator though, I'm afraid.
>>44245325
go back to work piotr, ć ś ż are only for expierienced langueg users, and ch would be cz btw.
>>44245518
You misunderstand. According to DnD/PF designers if you choose a martial class you are bound to your own special version of reality where you can't leap huge distances, deal too much damage, or generally perform feats that would be considered superhuman other than being functionally indestructible in the face of natural dangers like falling or catching on fire. If you choose a magic class you don't need no reality encumbering on your spells.
Martials get restrictions added onto their abilities so they're "realistic"
Casters get magic because magic isn't realistic so fuck limitations
>>44245540
Really? I always found Changeling The Lost to be the least cringe-worthy NWoD line.
>>44245457
I don't know about Murdock's fame in Ultimate universe, but he did introduce himself by name to Parker in USM #106 and then was later found dead by Spider-Man in USM #131. Both issues written by Bendis.
USM is his claim to fame, a comic that is actually considered good (and his writing style fits the fast thinking and fast talking teen Spider-Man), but even within his own series he couldn't be bothered to follow a logical continuity.
>>44245571
ToB kind of fixed that
Warblade and Swordsage are my favourite 3.5 classes
>>44245507
So what? If I'm playing a Fantasy game why should I care about realism?
And if you're playing a "realistic" fantasy setting then you need to apply realism fairly. All things considered, Lord of the Rings is fairly "realistic", and in that setting magic is used pretty much exclusively by divine otherworldly beings, and all the heroes are martial types.
People who support caster supremacy are either bitter nerds who hold a grudge against actually athletic people, or are ignorant of fantasy literature's roots in mythology, and hooked into a feedback loop created by DnD in the first place.
>>44245607
And the whole crowd went "booohooooo unrealistic!!!!"
Hence "weeaboo fightan magic"
Being turned off by a single word? That's fucking ridiculous. They probably just borrowed the term from computer games. It's not like it doesn't make sense.
Honestly, when people complain about utterly trivial stuff like this and how "pretentious" it seems, I just have to wonder at what the fuck is wrong with them and what causes this hypersensitivity to anything that is new or different.
Get a grip.
>>44245640
Yeah, but those people are idiots who are the enemies of good balance and shared fun.
>>44245495
It is literally impossible to spend all of your points in one school. You get one per level, but your maximum level of spells goes up once per two levels. Your theoretical 10th level necromancer has spent 5/10 points on Necromancy, which is also the maximum at that level, leaving him 5 points to put anywhere else.
Also, the entire point here is to rein in the power of casters. The fact that it takes more overall XP to learn a new school at 10th level than it would have at 1st level doesn't bother me. That's the price of being a specialist, after all.
>>44245695
Yeah, but it kind of convinced WotC that "unrealistic" figther was a bad idea.
And DD4 convinced them that it was really a bad idea and balance too
>>44245725
Come and Get It was kind of a stupid power
Way too useful compared to everything else at the same level and excessively hard to explain fluff-wise
>>44245561
And, once again, somebody's "solved" a problem with a magic system by just making magic so fucking complicated that nobody will ever bother playing a mage.
Why does it seem like this is the go-to option for dealing with casters these days? I mean, it technically works... in the same way that smothering your baby technically stops them from crying all night.
>>44245761
Because the vancian magic system causes brain damage
>>44245805
You can argue that it's not a good system, sure, but it's not like it's super-complicated. And that still doesn't address my point that so many people seem to think it's a good idea to "solve" problems with a magic system by just making it so complex that nobody bothers. That's not fixing anything, that's just fucking it up even worse.
>>44244570
>>44244802
>>44244815
It's rushing back to me too. According to aforementioned cockmongler, chitin was pronounced "SHEE-eh-tin".
And let's not forget the fit he threw when he shot an orc with an arrow and got mad that they ran in to warn the rest of the camp rather than run through the silent entangle spell he laid out (he thought he was going to pull and kite like in Everquest, insisted that the guards warning the rest of the orcs was "cowardly" and out of character, etc.). He also tried to get me booted from a group because my
>>44245761
Sorry.
>>44245880
The thing is though, balancing a vancian magic system can only work in one of two ways. 1. Making everyone a spellcaster, or 2. making spellcasting over-complicated.
People tend to go for 2 over 1
>>44245949
>The thing is though, balancing D&D system can only work in one of two ways. 1. Making everyone a spellcaster, or 2. making spellcasting over-complicated.
FTFY. The balance problems have nothing to do with vancian casting and everything to do with D&D's specific implementation of it.
>>44245992
NOPE
L5R also has a vancian magic system, and also suffers the exact same balance issues in regards to it. Despite using a different form of vancian magic to DnD
Not the systems themselves but more the people who play them:
>people trying too hard to be funny
Not everything has to be some profanity-laden randum Benny Hill/Monty Python ripoff. I don't mean to imply no fun is allowed, but can we please get past the "shouting 'creative' uses of bad words at inappropriate times" phase of humor and just play the game? Are you really that desperate for validation that you have to make a "witty" remark about every sentence the GM says then look around desperately?
>>44246023
Well, vancian casting does make problems. When you compare a weak "at will" to a very strong "once a day" you tend to look more at "at will"
>>44245237
By the way that's wrong. Housewife is a retroformation from the same root as husband. House-husband is stupid because it's redundant. And house-spouse is doubly stupid.
>>44246280
I don't make the posts, I just share them like a good little shitposter.
>>44243118
"Aw thanks, dawg"
It's like they never remember that he's got a doctorate in physics and was considered Bruce Banner's equal in the field of gamma radiation, on top of being big into English literature.
>>44246718
>smart people can't speak ebonics
It's called gap moe, b.
>People complaining about vancian casting
Are people seriously noy satisfied with how broken casters are that they want to remove the cap? Honestly, people are looking at it from only a battle perspective. Beware your players, lest we forget the terrible things they would do just because:
>Orb of acid? No cap?
>just cast it till lock is gone
>I cast bulls strength on myself. Forever.
>I cast stinking cloud till the entire continent is running away. I now claim it.
Vancian gave realistic limitations to a fantastical aspect of the game. Dragon lance said it best: A spells memory is so powerful it creates a rune like flare in your mind, and is snuffed out when you cast it. The human body can only take so much, so you can only prepare as much as your body can handle.
I do allow my players to gain an "at will" under extreme circumstances, like 10 crits with the spell in a short time or some kind of outside influence or bloodline.
I know alot of GM's overlook the spell componant thing, but it is an amazing tool you can use to curb overpowered gaming. Small stuff sure, fuck it you have your component pouch and a small fee in each town to have it last you a couple weeks. But super powerful shit? Nah, you better go find those materials, because the local wizard mart dosnt care rare shit like that.
>>44246804
Yeah, because the only alternative to vancian casting is the exact same D&D spells with no daily limit.
God, 3tards are the worst.
Also,
>hurr enforce material components
How about no.
>>44246882
Because 4e was way better right? The spells were lifeless, uninteresting, and gave no room for creativity.
I like the idea of orisons and cantrips being limitless, but powerful shit should be capped.
>>44246986
>The spells were lifeless, uninteresting, and gave no room for creativity.
That's D&D in general, not just 4E. Want to have a certain theme or set yourself apart? No fuck you, shoot fireballs like every other faggot.
That's why I play Mutants and Masterminds and fluff it for high fantasy
>>44239430
I just want to play as a wizard that's really only good at attacking - powerful spells from afar or a bunch of little ones to help out the party during mass combat.
>>44246804
>the only alternative to vancian spellcasting is vancian spellcasting without limits
What the fuck is wrong with you?
>>44246986
>The only RPGs are DnD editions
WHAT THE FUCK IS WRONG WITH YOU?
>>44239476
Pretty sure it never actually existed, except as a meme. Though I imagine there may have been someone who used it as a house rule. The closest I think was one of the early versions gave female characters a lower cap on exceptional strength. But I imagine that hardly made a difference in most situations, since exceptional strength was only available to warriors in the first place and I think was really hard to get anyway. A female character who was strong enough to be affected by the rule would still be stronger than virtually everyone else. The only time it would matter is if a female character made a truly extraordinary roll for strength score.
>>44239561
Seemed all right until the last line. Having broadly defined powers makes sense, but having someone with normal strength being able to lift ridiculously heavy things like that doesn't make sense. Now, if they had magic, or powered armor or something to let them do it, then it might make sense.
>>44245919
>He also tried to get me booted from a group because my
Because of what? Because your habit of talking about Candleja—
>>44240411
This guy gets it
>Any cyberpunky or transhumany setting
>Augments make you LESS HUMAN and KILL YOUR SOUL
>You can download yourself to another body after death
>This is a known fact in setting and isn't new to anybody
>Psychological damage for any death in the first place rather than the nature of the death
>Any system that is going for gritty-wish realism things
>Killing any human being ever causes psychological damage rather than it being down to the player how their character feels about the fact they just killed a person
>>44246986
>The spells were lifeless, uninteresting, and gave no room for creativity.
Reminder: Every time someone says that what they actually mean is "I can't use magic to solve my problems in 6 seconds!"
>>44247125
Shitty narratavist detected.
>>44247125
>>Any system that is going for gritty-wish realism things
>>Killing any human being ever causes psychological damage rather than it being down to the player how their character feels about the fact they just killed a person
Or they could just take the flaw for playing someone who is psychopathic.
>>44247050
>Pretty sure it never actually existed, except as a meme.
It's not very common in D&D proper (although I think there's some stuff in AD&D about it), but you don't have to look very far afield for it. Judges Guild stuff is full of it, for instance: Paul Jaquays of all fucking people wrote an article for the Dungeoneer about "woman classes" that involves a lot of it, and the various Ready Ref Sheet/Wilderlands material clearly assumes something similar as the standard.
Also, according to a well-informed autist in an earlier thread the most realistic modifier is -6 STR.
>>44247241
It's like they don't enjoy the fact that DnD bypasses all those shitty little aspects of reality for the sake of making more interesting characters
Reroll mechanics. Nigger you are playing pretend. If you want to win that bad, just say you win.
>>44247029
Half-orc Crossblooded (Fire Dragon/Orc) Sorcerer using Words of Power, with the Wizard Variant Multiclass. If all you want to do is blast the shit out of stuff, this is a great way to do it. You're getting +2 damage per die on fire spells, +1/2 level damage to evocation damage spells, and +1/2 level to damage spells.
Words of Power sacrifices the versatility and unique niche spells of the normal system for having complete and utter control of the shape of your spells, especially as a sorcerer. On the fly, you can decide to have your spell be a melee touch, ranged touch, cone, line, or burst... or line+ at 3rd level (barrier is like line on crack for instantaneous spells). Burning shit might be the only thing you can really do, but damned if you are the best fucker around when it comes to burning shit.
>>44247234
>Killing somebody who is fucking terrible, even in self defense must always carry heavy psychological damage
>All characters must look at their hands and say "WHAT HAVE I DONE!?" in every story in which somebody kills somebody else in the system
>The psychological damage doesn't go away, no matter how many people the character kills
>Player characters are the only characters who these rules apply to
Nuh bruh. Shit rules. Makes for shitty games. One doesn't need to be a psychopath to not be massively scarred by killing another human being. Not saying that people don't, they absolutely do but not having one doesn't make somebody a psychopath. If human beings broke down and stopped every time they killed another human the human species wouldn't exist. This "Man must not kill man!" idea comes from culture and conditioning, not biology.
>>44247383
No, it's very biological. Killing other people has alwyas been extremely hard, we're a social animal, so of course we balk at lowering our own numbers.
That said, people have always been extremely good at conditioning themselves to see their enemies as "not people", which makes killing them a hell of a lot easier
>>44247383
Eh, it's not so much realizing that killing someone isn't great, it's:
"There is the horror of seeing men and animals wounded and maimed and mutilated, or torn to pieces or lying dead in some grotesque attitude... Much mental and emotional inhibition is necessary to preserve one’s reason."
– William Rivers, The Repression
of War Experience (1918)
And the statistic of
"...there is 2% of the male population that, if pushed or if given a legitimate reason, will kill without regret or remorse."
– Dave Grossman, On Killing (1996)
No one is going to make their characters have any downsides for either being reluctant to kill, or seeing maimed and mutilated bodies (Which if you ever use any explosives, fire, etc, you're going to see) unless there's some mechanical reason for it. I'd love if my players could RP that out, but sometimes you just need mechanics to help you along. It's like the fact that no one would ever RP out shock and pain unless there's a rule for it.
>>44247227
Wut
If anything he's anti-narrativist
"I just want to kill people without consequences"
