>Rules databases
https://mega.nz/#F!BxI1HSgI!0tKymKh9RZTzGpgIA5EyCg
https://kat.cr/warhammer-40k-pdf-library-t9575373.html
>FAQs
http://www.games-workshop.com/en-GB/Rules-Errata
>40k 7th edition quick reference sheet(s)
https://dl.dropboxusercontent.com/u/4104995/Games/7edRef_V6.pdf
>Forgeworld Book index
http://www.dakkadakka.com/wiki/en/Forge_World_and_Apocalypse_Rules_Index
We never get a game because we refuse to play edition
FW MKIII armor is sold out, plastic kit soon?
>>44153869
Basic Sisters are fine if you're putting them up against other base troops like Boyz, Guardians, etc. If anything, Marine troops should go up a point since ATSKNF is way too valuable. Meanwhile, Chaos ones should drop down one point.
Where can I find the bit about the Orks and Death Star and the Imperial Fists?
>>44154110
Fuck that. Chaos should go up in points and get rules that reflect it.
>>44154091
Sold out or unavailable? Sold out literally means sold out whereas unavailable means it's gone.
Are black knights worth taking over just another grav bike unit?
Should I put the heavy bolter or melta for attack bikes if I put them in a bike squad.
Would it be better putting a heavy bolter attack bike with a double heavy bolter land speeder to form an attack squad then have the attack bike roll with my other bikes?
>>44154187
nuts
>>44154110
>you know how I'll balance 40k?
>nerf tactical marines
for what purpose
Abd how about a hevvy looted weapons table for 20 points.
>1 AutoKannon
>2 Inferno Scorcha
>3 Humie Rockit Launcher
>4 Plasma Kannon
>5 Two Hevvy Boltas stukk togevva
>6 Melta Kannon
>>44154160
Well of course they fucking should but I was talking about current points cost.
>>44154222
as an add on to
>>44153811
>>44154160
Both should go up in points and reflect how powerful they are in the fluff at least in part. FNP would be good along with +1 attack.
I want to do MGS references on my Tau army. These are the ideas I got right now.
>Crisis Commander battlesuit has an eyepatch
>Darkstrider twirling pistols
>One OSC Stealth Shas'vre has dogtags, the other has a bandana around his armour, above his optics
>The Ghostkeel has crotch-mounted fusion blasters
My army also has 2 full Strike teams, what could I add for them?
>>44154222
Don't forget the sparky stick
>>44154110
>against other base troops
Necron warriors with rp, fire warriors with ml, scions?
>>44154261
why tau?
Wouldn't a guard army with a knight make more sense?
>>44154267
Sparky stick?
>>44154295
You have a very good point, but I have a Tau army and I want to add references to something I love, not building an army around a theme.
>>44154312
Las/lance-cannon
>>44154295
Enclave fans often compare Farsight to Big Boss. Also a weapon to surpass Metal Gear.
>>44154209
So they're more in line with other codices troop choices.
If I was in charge of GW and wanted to balance/fix 40k though?
>Put all rules online.
>Constantly revise and update all codicies and rules based on continual playtesting and fan feedback.
>Have major updates coincide with model releases.
>Get fired for making the game unprofitable.
>>44154294
Ah, and sweet skitarii vanguards and rangers with orders.
>>44154343
eh, I think for 20 points a BS 2 unit would want somethingy more blasty
>>44154261
Decoy Octopus.
Mantis.
Vulcan Raven.
Sniper Wolf.
>>44154187
>Availability:
>No Longer Available
Weird
Is there some difference between a mkVI and the ones that you can find in an assault marine box? I'd like to make an Alpha Legion army as close as possible as they are depicted during the Horus Heresy without having to pay the steep Forgeworld costs
>>44154377
lets it have ridiculous range and maybe twinlinked.
Alternatively... Make it a Beam.
>>44154110
Ah, I see your point.
I remember a while back someone compared Fire warriors to Battle sisters and found they're very similar when mathhammered against each other.
I agree marines should be at 15pts. In 4th they had ATSKNF, Bolters and were 15pts.
Now they have Bolters, Bolt pistols, Chapter tactics, combat squads, Frag grenades, Krak grenades, ATSKNF *and* are 14pts.
>>44154343
That's called a beamy deffgun.
>>44154420
A mkVI Jump pack*
>>44154261
>>44154351
>So they're more in line with other codices troop choices.
What, you mean all the ones that are cheaper and better?
>>44154351
>Get fired for making the game unprofitable.
I think it'd work the other way 'round honestly.
You make everything viable, now everyone's buying tons of everything because they're safe knowing their purchases are solid. Speaking for myself, I haven't bought a single CSM miniature since like 2008 because the codex blows and I benched them. I ain't spending all that money for dust-collectors.
But now everything's viable! Product's moving like wildfire, even the shit that's been sitting in the warehouse since Ghenghis Kham roamed the fucking plains.
>>44154261
Maybe give a Devilfish Hind D markings?
>>44154477
Oi mate what the fuck
You think its possible to invent a new faction without it/them falling into standard armies roles
>Shooty
>Choppy
>Fast - fragile
>Slow - tough
>Horde
>Few
>Avarage Joe
Or probably any of these in combination?
>>44154401
>Decoy Octopus
No idea what this could be
>Mantis
No psykers for Tau unfortunately
>Vulcan Raven
If I had a Broadside I'd definitely stick a giant fucking tank on the back. Or a riptide. But I mostly use infantry.
>Sniper Wolf
Could use my Ghostkeel's female tau head to make a Sniper Wolf Fireblade conversions maybe.
>>44154559
>No idea what this could be
It could be anything.
>>44154552
Shooty, choppy, fast, tough and horde.
>>44154494
>I haven't bought a single CSM miniature
And tau guy bought 3 riptides, 3 ghostkeels and those shiny 90£ stormsurge. Do you really believe gw cares about poor csm fags?
>>44154261
Riptide Vulcan Raven with Tattoo-like markings.
Ghostkeel Octopus.
>>44154294
RPs are okay, Decurion should be scrapped. Firewarriors pay premium for enough markerlights, either from soft pathfinders, innacurate drones or rare tetras. Never played Scions but they look fine?
>>44154519A Hind D?
That's a pretty good idea matey, thanks!
>>44154477
That's real cool and all buthow does it taste?
>>44154559
>No psykers for Tau unfortunately
Bring a Culexus Assassin. Wasn't Mantis always a lose cannon who only cared about killing humans?
So what's up with all the Tau minis having new colors? Did I miss something? The standard used to be orange and black, now it's white and red.
>>44154345
>Enclave fans often compare Farsight to Big Boss.
He used to be, but that's long been trod into the dirt with the supplement.
The only sort-of big boss character left is Marbo, but Marbo's so deep behind enemy lines they forgot to put him in the latest codex.
>>44154614
It's just one of their Septs. It isn't even a new scheme.
>>44154627
>but Marbo's so deep behind enemy lines they forgot to put him in the latest codex
>>44154591
But they CAN take decurions, ghostarks and ml in normal games. And sob got nothing.
>>44154571
That's necrons right there.
SM Bike army 1850
HQ-260
Kor'sarro Khan, Moondrakkan
150-
Librarian, Mastery Lv2, The Hunter's Eye, Force Axe
110-
Troops-560
Bike Squad, Additional Bike x2, Grav-gun x2, Combi-Grav (serg)
145-
Bike Squad, Additional Bike x2, Grav-gun x2, Combi-Grav (serg)
145-
Bike Squad, Additional Bike x2, Meltagun x2, Combi-Melta (serg)
135-
Bike Squad, Additional Bike x2, Meltagun x2, Combi-Melta (serg)
135-
Fast Attack-70
Drop Pod
35-
Drop Pod
35-
Heavy Support-450
Thunderfire Cannon
100-
Thunderfire Cannon
100-
Centurion Devastator Squad, Grav-cannon and grav-amp x3, Omniscope
250-
Ravenwing Strike Force
HQ-115
Librarian, Mastery Lv2, Space Marine Bike, Auspex, Force Axe
115-
Fast Attack-360
Ravenwing Black Knights, Grenade Launcher x1
120-
Ravenwing Black Knights, Grenade Launcher x1
120-
Ravenwing Black Knights, Grenade Launcher x1
120-
INQUISITION
Xenos Inquisitor, Servo Skull x3
34-
White Scars-1340
Dark Angels-475
Inquisition-34
1849-total
White Scars Libby goes in Drop with Centurions, Inq is there for Servo Sull shenanigans, rest is pretty obvious.
Maybe lose a Thunderfire, Drop Pod and Inq to add in 2 Stormtalons? Or I could add a 4x Grav-gun Bike Command too. Not really sure. I own most of the original list, so help is appreciated. Thanks Fa/tg/uys.
>>44154567
.. point.
>>44154579
Poor isn't the issue. Sure they sold all that, but if other armies where updated, they could've sold 4x as much because now, instead of people wanting the same 3 OP models, they want FUCKING EVERYTHING!
>>44154582
I don't use Riptides but I'll keep both ideas, thanks a lot.
Y'all giving me some great food for thought.
>>44154261LIQUID!
Aun'shi asLiquid Snake?Just give him pants or something.
>>44154706
BROTHER!
Did you like my Pheromones?
>>44154193
Someone locally plays full Ravenwing and loves them. Just min-squads.
I feel they are quite different in their roles, and BS2 re-roll at snapshots is really awesome too.
I'd only ever run Multi-melta on bikes, but I prefer 2 more bikers over the Attack Bike.
I like Land Speeders more than Attack Bikes, but thats more a last minute objective denying thing.
Say /tg/ for a Chaos Undivided daemon army which of the three vehicles is the best? (Blood Throne/Skull Cannon, Burning Chariot, or Seeker/Hellflayer Chariot)
>>44154552
You have basically covered all the things a unit can be.
I guess a totally vehicle army?
Or a psychic army the likes of which we have never seen, horde psychics or something?
Oh shit make an umbra supplement - shadows kill models, fucking line of sight on shadows or you die.
For anyone that played Imperial Guard during the days of the 3.5 edition codex, how good/bad were the Last Chancers?
>>44154431
Thank, yeah, I think the only reason they get away with it is since AP1/2/3 weapons are more common and there's been a similar reduction in points with other troops. Plus, most 40k players have marines so they'd be less inclined to be hostile to a buff.
Actually I have questions about the ideas I have here >>44154261
Does the Ghostkeel even have space for crotch-mounted TL-Fusion Blasters? I want it to look halfway decent and not too obvious to avoid the general "LMAO DICK JOKE" thing.
And would the two Stealth Shas'Vres be Solid/Liquid fit? I figured they're stealthy and due to the OSC formation, they lead their two squads, essentially twins of each other.
>>44154791
Soul grinder.
Of the three you listed... none.
They all have equal reason to be in an undivided army.
>>44154261
Maybe paint some Fire Warriors like Genomes?
>>44154854
Meh. The were just a little better than regular IG then, and that wasn't saying much. Issue was regular dudes were to pricey, and rules back then made them crumble like wet paper once your side got assaulted due to an enemy killing alot and charging into another squad.
Space marine captain-130
-relic blade, artificer armor
Librarian-65
Command squad-165
-4 power weapons, apothecary
Scout squad-60
-sniper rifles
Tactical squad-80
-Combi-plasma
1st company strike force
Vanguard squad-185
-5 plasma pistols (w/5 bolt pistols), jump packs
Sternguard squad-285
-10 marines, 4 combi-weapons, plasma gun, melta gun
Sternguard squad-115
-Heavy bolter, plasma gun
Knight Acheron-415
Eversor assassin-135
Eversor assassin-135
Culexeus assassin-140
Vindicaire assassin-150
2000 pointsGameplan: everyone except the scouts and the sternguard run across the table and hope everyone is busy shooting the knight
Does this appear as a list that someone would want to play against? I'm worried what the effect of putting four assassins and a knight on the table would be.
>>44154627
>Forgot to put him in
Have you seriously not taken your IG Codex, and peeled the paper from the inside of the front cover? His profile is right there, you just didn't look hard enough.
Are there any bitz or models to make 28mm terran marines?
>>44154924
Drop an Eversor and take a Callidus to get the formation.
>>44154908
That would mean having them white in a jungle-themed army with a Salamanders-esque paint scheme.. Maybe add footprints on their bases?
Am I the only one who thinks the biggest Tau suit should be the Broadside?
>>44155042
No, but I disagree with you.
>>44155014
I don't want to.
do you guys ever have painting demonstrations at your lgs? how did you learn how to paint?
>>44155042
Sometimes you just have to let go and embrace what you've become.
>>44154924
>5 plasma pistols
>heavy bolter
don't
>>44155008
>28mm terran marines
Have you tried google, even once?
>>44155094
Trial and error.
>>44155122
The sternguard are going to be standing still so the heavy weapon is fine.
The vanguard get 2 pistols each and the points are interchangeable with the power weapon vanguard squad I'm going to be building eventually.
Leaked Tau art from IA14
>>44155094
I don't know about now but GW used to be quite good at teaching noobs to paint (I learnt there as a kid). I was of course fucking terrible. Now I am mediocre, but painting good takes heaps of effort.
Assuming you want to learn there is always youtube.
>>44155195
lel
>>44155042
I liked the Riptide initially.
Really big beast of a machine, but limited edition and highly experimental. Showed Tau desperation, like with the Nova Charge being somewhat unreliable. That's very un-Tau (considering their nerf their plasma for reliability), but the implementation of it worked really well.
Stormsurge's I'm very meh on. I don't want to run them.
>>44155195
a) at least rename the shit
2) use a better series.
Votoms should do fine.
>>44155242
actually i'm a bored art student and i'm wondering i could get a deal teaching people how to paint miniatures. i was curious if this had been done before because i learned to paint minis by myself mostly
>>44155113
Shaddup Jensen.
>>44155042
Why do you resist the embrace the stupidity characteristic of the setting?
>>44155283
I want to like the Riptide but it's unproportioned as fuck. Huge barrel chest and jetpack, thick thighs... but then weedy arms and legs, teeny tiny head and legs that looked like it's gonna snap at any moment. Plus hefting a gun with said weedy arm that's the size of the massive torso.
>>44155315
Yes? You put an ad in a paper and go "Will teach model painting technique blahblahblah".
or you can do videos.
>>44155283
The stormsurge has been growing on me because I like to imagine it stomping around the front lines shooting people instead of just sitting back making everyone 'mire its squats.
>>44155366
Did the AdMech ever get a Stormsurge? It never said it did.
>>44155378
They probably did
>>44155315
staff already do it, and regular painters will usually offer tips of their own volition
You can do it out of the goodness of your own heart, but there's no way you'll be able to cut a deal with GW just for painting lessons. They get nothing from it.
>>44155401
I hope so, it wanted to make me build a Stygies-VII AdMech force, or my OCDONUTSTEEL who like xeno tech and steal shit and re-purpose it.
Shame there is no rules for being xeno.
>>44155195
You forgot the row of not!Deathstrikes across the top.
How do Skitarii play relative to the other factions?
These models are just beautiful enough to get me back in the game.
>>44155315
What he said >>44155411 Maybe if you were tippy top shelf golden daemon standard you could get freelance students on the side. But painters give away all their tips for free.
Need a 500 point Imperial Navy List, and a 500 point Chaos List.
>>44155411
i figured as much
>>44155378
It was strongly implied. Same with the weather control tech, never outright stated that's what they used to create the firewall, but it's implied.
>>44155443
Fun-ly. But in terms of power level, they're retard-powerful, but fragile and slow. Squadroned Onagers are unkillable, but expensive if upgraded. Massed infantry mulch things, but live in fear of templates and Ignores Cover. Sicarians will get right in your enemies' faces, but it's a crapshoot if they'll die before they get the good shit done.
They are one of the most fun armies GW has ever released, if that still goes for anything.
>>44155463
For Battlefleet Gothic i mean lol
>>44155443
They are... wierd.
I can't think of a better way to describe them.
They are a bit fragile but have weapons that can murder just about anything, they have no transports at all so its footslogging unless you ally your way to some wheels/wings.
>>44155550
Write one, faggot. If you want netlists, go ask the mincing cunts over at Warseer.
>>44155570
Thanks, i'm trying multiple things at once. I know i won't come back here again, that's for sure.
>>44155550
People still play Battlefleet Gothic?
Are there in the mega GW's painting guides?
>>44155637
Don't let the door hit your
ass on your way out.
>>44155637
Why would we want a cunt who can't even write his own lists, and doesn't even ask the competent people nicely for one?
>>44155638
Yous havin' a laff ya git? Da Orks be rokkin da vidya BFG soon!
>>44154673
Aren't the Black Knights Fast Attack? If so, won't work.
Also, 2 Thunderfire here is quite alot, you should be more offensive. Additionally, nothing you have will work great with the Bolster Defense from the Techmarine, let alone 2. Maybe run a squad of Scouts with Bolters to take advantage of it.
>>44155695
>/tg/
>competent
If I stick the Fusion Blaster barrel (the end square) or just cut off the housing (the square with the cylinder) and stick it to the Ghostkeel's cortch, would it be noticeable but not enough to look like a dick joke?
It's kinda difficult.
I want to convert some Piranhas into Deffkoptas.
Any suggestions?
>>44155760
>>44155695
>the competent people
You sure we're talking about /tg/?
>>44155637
Aw boo fucking hoo.
>>44155750
What about Black Knights being Fast Attack makes the list not work?
I have a rules question about the Retaliation Cadre and how it might interact with units not in the formation. Let's say I take a generic Commander in the Retaliation Cadre, hold it in Deep Strike Reserves (using the Low Altitude Deployment formation rule), but decide to stick the Commander in another unit that's in DS Reserves (maybe a squad of Drones from the VX1-0 formation, for example). Would that unit I joined the Commander to benefit from his formation rules and come on automatically, would they have to roll as normal (potentially failing to come in the same turn), or would I not even be allowed to put him in the unit?
Also, what about the opposite scenario - assume I have a Commander from outside the formation but I stick him in a unit from the formation, like one of the Crisis Teams or the Broadsides. Would he be allowed to come on automatically when the rest of the unit comes on, have to roll to arrive (again, potentially failing to come in the same turn), or would he not be allowed to join the unit?
I tried picking it apart by looking at the Independent Character USR, but that only half-answers the problem. Relevant clause:
>An Independent Character cannot leave a unit while either he or the unit is in Reserves,
That seems to imply that at the very least the second outcome of both examples can't happen; you can't have either the character or the unit stay in reserves while the other enters play after they've both already been combined together in reserves, as that would force him to leave the unit while either "he or the unit is in Reserves."
That means that you're either allowed to use the formation as a means of "shuttling" an outside unit or IC into play on turn two automatically without a roll, or you're not allowed to mix outside units with formation ICs and vice versa because... well, arbitrary undefined reasons. I can't see any explicitly defined argument why you can't do this in the rules... as cheesy as it may seem.
What am I missing?
>>44155570
>>44155638
>>44155690
>>44155695
>>44155785
Because maybe he's had a rough week, is a fag and doesn't know how to apologize? I'm getting into board games to get better socially. I apologize.
>>44155753
>>44155784
It's a relative matter.
>>44154673
Did they FAQ it so that you can take non Sam HQ's in the RWSF yet?
>>44155637
Get out while you still can.
>>44155757
Stick it on the bottom so it protrudes from underneath the groin armor plate
>>44155832
That's an idea, but won't that make it look like it interferes with the leg movement? Want it to look more natural. Can the Ghostkeel be posed bowlegged like REX you reckon?
>>44155805
The commander can't be in another unit because the retaliation cadre is using a special deployment that only applies to them, and thus he either deep strikes by himself or deepstrikes as a part of one of the formation's units.
>>44155815
No but if you e-mail them they'll tell you that you can take HQs on bikes to fill up the HQ slots in the detachment although they don't get the ravenwing special rule.
>>44155805
I think that there's an implication that you can't join the IC to the unit in Reserves, either. The unit composition is static, unless you declared he's joining a Reserve unit pre-match, or have them on the tabletop.
RAW, I think you're correct about the "shuttling", though.
>>44155753
Well, yes. We're more competent to a guy who can't sit down and make a list. It isn't hard. I've done it and I actually have a form of brain damage.
>>44155872
Your problem is that the dick gun isn't enough to make people think of REX. You should go for a more extensive conversion if you want people to make the connection
>>44155790
Oh, part of the formation. D'oh.
Still stand by other advice though.
>>44155951
>>44155872
>>44155883
See, that's what I figured would be the common sense interpretation, but when I decided to dig into it I couldn't find an explicit argument in the actual rulebook that backed it up. If you can find something in the rules that mentions ICs joining out of or into other detachments that have "special deployment" as you put it I'd love to see the citation because I've been looking for that and can't find it.
>>44155895
>I think that there's an implication that you can't join the IC to the unit in Reserves, either. The unit composition is static, unless you declared he's joining a Reserve unit pre-match, or have them on the tabletop.
Isn't that a contradiction? He's joining the unit while deployment is being assigned, as the Independent Character USR instructs you to do. There's nothing unusual going on there, and other armies do that all the time, even (hell, *especially*) across detachments. If you couldn't do that then the infamous Imperium Super Friends Death Star (with or without Centurion Devastators) wouldn't be a thing. From the book:
>An Independent Character can begin the game already with a unit, either by being deployed in unit coherency with it or, if the unit is in Reserve, by you informing your opponent of which unit it has joined.
The issue is really what to do about "special deployment" circumstances as outlined by the previous anon who replied. In short, that specific clarification is what I'm trying to find but haven't been able to. I should mention that I also tried to see if this was clarified in the ITC FAQ and couldn't find much there, either. The closest I could find was
>Independent Characters attached to the Devastators or Assault Marines in the Skyhammer Annihilation Formation may not benefit from the special rules granted from the formation. For example, they are not able to assault out of reserves, nor do they gain Relentless, etc.
... but that formation also arrives automatically... implying you can do this.
>>44155951
I'm not entirely sure if I want to convert it that heavily. Don't get me wrong, this >>44156153 is fucking amazing but I love the ghostkeel model and it's aesthetic. Don't really want to change that to the point of not looking like one anymore.
So maybe reference the actual metal gears in some other way.
>>44155809
It's ok.
I'm tired and grumpy too.
>>44156161
>If all the units from this formation start in reserve, you can announce before the battle begins they will use Low Altitude Deployment
>If you do so, deploy the ENTIRE FORMATION using the deep strike special rule at the START of your second turn
The rules states deploying the entire formation using the special method. Other units aren't part of the formation, ergo aren't part of the special deployment, ergo cannot participate. An IC joining a unit does not make that unit the IC's unit, joining an IC to an independent unit would detach him from the formation for purposes of deep striking
An outside unit uses the movement phase to deep strike, this formation deep strikes at turn's start before other units do, ergo other units cannot deep strike during the low altitude drop
Man I do like the Tau but why are they getting all this lore centering?
There's an entire galaxy full of Other Xenos and cosmic horrors preying on the Imperium
>>44156341
Before lore-wise they were pretty underdeveloped in the realm of ongoing conflict. Now they've got a status quo to sit on while FW writes all the better campaign boosk.
Also GW had to justify new models instead of just saying"oh they always had those"
Also now people can't whine about the Tau not being a threat.
>>44156400
So now they can complain that they are a threat
>>44156439
yes
>>44156400
Not trapped behind the Firewall they aren't.
>>44156400
Well... now the Imperium installed a firewall to keep the Tau out.
>>44156450
Give the Earth Caste a couple minutes to fix that.
They've also got multiple colonies on the outside of the gulf
>>44156471
Yeah even if you ignore it being impossible to make sense of that
It's straight up said in the book they've halfway finished solving the issue within days of the it starting
so
>>44156550
>>44156498
The actual text:
>Earth caste engineers, however, were working ceaselessly to perfect a shield that would protect starcraft from the highly corrosive gasses. Early tests were positive, as some ships survived the passage across the Damocles Gulf, but the failure rate was high.
They haven't completed it yet, and it will be a while. Long enough that the Imperium gets the Tau off their asses, and perhaps finally accomplishes something, at any rate.
Taufaggots need to read their fluff.
>>44156341
Because Tau are selling well. In the waac environment GW has fostered with 7th edition, fielding a competitive army is far more popular than a fun/fluffy one. And Tau are very simple, rewarding minimal effort.
Its a shame what 40k has become.
>>44156644
The actual text, right after saying the wall exists, that says they can already get across and are just working out reliability?
Dude, you're the one failing basic reading comprehension here. But go ahead, it's always funny to see someone post quotes that directly contradict themselves.
>>44156658
Second edition, man. Sure, you had to want to grind through all the rules, and games took longer, but fuck if it wasn't that much more fun.
>>44156686
kek
>but the failure rate was high
That means most of the ships blew up
Are all taufags this incomprehensibly autistic
What's more interesting about the Tau's conundrum is that they're on the cusp of a potential Horus Heresy level civil war. If someone were to leak the details of the campaign to the Tau population the discourse could divide the Empire. Space Pope is dead and the government is covering it up, not to mention the government is separated from the entire empire save a handful of colonies. Shadowsun, the hero of the Fire Caste, fucked up and was about to lose the campaign when Farsight stepped in and saved everyone, and the government covered that up too. Farsight has still got a lot of loyalty in the Fire Caste for an outcast not to mention still being more awesome than Shadowsun at war. There could easily be a revolution if Farsight or someone was so inclined to start one.
That could be a fun campaign book featuring Chaos vs Tau.
>>44156719
Are you literally high?
What the fuck does a high initial failure rate have to do with the fact that they've immediately found a workaround?
You know technology is refined, right?
>>44156314
Not sure I buy that. They didn't invent a new way to Deep Strike; they reference the existing method, the same way that other formations that Deep Strike automatically do so. Again, see Skyhammer Annihilation Force, Deathwing Redemption Force, etc. - all can and routinely do contain characters from outside the formation. This "special method" exception is never referenced in the rules, and the phrase "would detach him from the formation for the purposes of deep striking" doesn't even make sense in the context of how the rules are defined.
As for your second point, again, that's not how this works - it's telling you to use Deep Strike deployment as the BRB has already defined it, not some magical deployment system defined in the formation rules. Deep Strike works the same way it always does, except it always comes in on turn two in this context.
I appreciate the attempt at word-fu bullshit rules lawyering here (really, I do) but you don't actually have a coherent argument.
>>44156686
Dude if twenty ships go through and nineteen blow up, that doesn't mean it's a viable workaround.
>>44156816
Also, literally entire sept worlds got burnt. "Everything not under a shield dome died." I'm paraphrasing, but there's a line much to that effect.
The Tau are not in a good place right now. Of course, this only means the opportunity to tell stories is better than ever, and a Chaos campaign with them would be cool as hell, but I suspect most of their fanbase can't recognize this.
>>44156846
It's 999.M41, man. They don't have much time to refine it before everything anybody has accomplished so far utterly ceases to matter.
>>44156885
My argument is that the formation's deep strike is separate from the rest of the army's and therefore other units cannot participate in it.
It's not rules lawyering, it's the correct interpretation.
>>44156846
Just flying through it isn't a work around, it's a test to see if it's possible. What they've found is that it is, but it's not viable. Now they'll look at actual workarounds.
>>44156909
>Reads "High failure rate"
>Sees "95% failure rate"
>>44155042
I think a Ghostkeel-sized Riptide could work well, since its closer to Dreadnought size, though it should still be rather rare.
The Riptide is pushing what I'd accept as a super heavy for them already. The Stormsurge and Supremacy are even worse.
>>44156987
>reads "High failure rate"
>assumes they're good to start sending ships through by the bucketload
I can do strawmen too.
>>44156940
>It's 999.M41, man. They don't have much time to refine it before everything anybody has accomplished so far utterly ceases to matter.
Yeah because the human empire collapsing into a hundred squabbling subfactions with limited transport ability would be SO TERRIBLE for an expansionistic non-human empire.
>>44156998
To be fair the latter two are super-heavy equivalent.
>>44156987
As high failure rate is a high goddamn failure rate, so yeah 95% wouldn't be far off.
>>44155283
>Stormsurge's I'm very meh on. I don't want to run them.
But you will. You'll field 1, sometimes 2. You will place it in your deployment zone and never move it. Your opponents will roll their eyes when they see your list, but most people will be polite and humor you. But nearly everyone will be disappointed that they spent an hour or two letting you play Yahtzee while they were wanting to play 40k. Shelf your Tau, they are a static gunline (Nooooo JSJ hurrrrrdurrr muh strategy and tactics muh difficult decisions) army for children and retards.
>>44156998
How many worlds do they have to draw resources from, anyway? Aren't there less than twenty septs?
>>44157019
No, Nids eating everything are going to be the terrible bit for them.
They're already nomming the Enclaves, it's really just a matter of time.
>>44157033
It's Tau. They'd consider 5% a high failure rate because they actually value their lives.
I mean, no way is it actually that low, but you'd need to be inbred to assume it's much more than 50%.
>>44157028
Yeah, but the Riptide is already as tall as an Imperial Knight. They didn't need to give them even bigger stuff.
>>44157038
Fuck off you incomprehensible faggot.
>>44157065
>You'd need to be inbred to assume you could assign it a numerical value, since none is given
FTFY
>>44157068
>inigomontoya.jpg
He's right, man. They are a no-skill army. Either you roll good and win, or you roll bad and lose.
>>44157068
Aww Taufag doesnt like being confronted with reality.
>>44157054
They have about 100 planets colonized, to day nothing of asteroid mining.
If I had to hazard a guess, a riptide probably takes as many resources as an aircraft and a few tanks.
>>44157115
That statement applies to all of 40k and makes you look like an idiot.
>>44157122
Kill yourself.
>>44157122
Dude, but the Taufags are actually grand masters of strategy. They have to pick what unit is the most dangerous and focus fire it to death! Now what other army has to do that?Besides all of them
>>44156816
See also: references to the Tau gathering research data about Imperial warp drives (or at least trying to) and how the Culexus Assassin was able to spookify most of Aun'Va's guard to death despite them supposedly being creatures that supposedly barely even register in the warp. Between that and Farsight's adventure on Arthas Moloch hundreds of years prior it would seem the Tau aren't going to be able to remain blissfully ignorant of the Warp and the Forces of Chaos for much longer.
If nothing else, the Second Agrellan Campaign has forced them to realize just how vast and scary and unknown the rest of the galaxy is when the Imperium can light entire planets - nay, entire sectors of space on fire without a second thought.
I think my favorite bit in both books was the dialogue between Coldstar and Shadowsun where Coldstar mentioned that Farsight's Mirrorcodex was the reason they'd been so successful... and Shadowsun immediately snaps at him and tells him to shut the fuck up and never mention his name again. If one of her highest ranking and most trusted officers still admires Farsight it shows just how deep his influence runs within the Fire Caste of the Empire. Bear in mind that this is BEFORE the Enclaves save Shadowsun's army and many of the highest ranking Ethereals from certain annihilation.
>>44155042
Were's my fucking tau anti-grav tanks instead of max suits all the fucking time?
Why is a 65 point piece of terrain what the 125 point hammerhead should be?
Were's my drone making devilfish chassis?
Hopefully next codex.
>>44157127
Yeah, I'd figured they'd be a little less resource-intensive than an Imperial Knight-type vehicle.
They can't sustainably keep building at the rate Mont'ka describes them as. If you're shitting out enough Imperial Knights to field one with every military force beyond twenty dudes, you're going to run out of resources to build them. See: mined-out forge worlds, with House Raven's coming to mind.
>>44157169
>Necrons
Can't JSJ, variety of units
>Eldar
Can't JSJ, variety of units
>All Imperial factions
Can't JSJ, variety of units
>Chaos
Can't JSJ, variety of units
>Orks
Can't do much, but at least they have variety
>Nids
Can JSJ, but huge variety of units
>Tau
Everything JSJs, no unit variety beyond long-range static shooty
>>44155195
Why isn't that a tank?
There's no fucking way it can stand on that sand.
>>44157239
>Eldar
>Can't jsj.
>>44157222
This dude is a Tau player, not a Taufaggot. Take lessons from him.
>>44157239
>Eldar can't JSJ
>Warp Spiders
>All the Jetbikes
>Battle Focus
Dude what
>>44157258
It's not a tank, it's a monstrous creature.
>>44157264
>>44157268
>What are Wraiths
>What are vehicles
>What are infantry
Gee, it's like one unit doesn't describe their whole army.
>>44157286
>One unit.
Admit you don't know what you are talking about.
>>44157239
>necrons
>variety
>eldar
>can't jsj
>tau
>no variety
>>44157222
>Were's my drone making devilfish chassis?
It's called a Piranha, apparently.
Also, the tank formation in the main codex does have good rules, it just forces you to use units that kind of stink for their cost. Buy hey, if you want to play a fluffy game with a friend where you both bring tank-based lists both Tau and IG can bring fairly similar armies! I'm not sure it would be any fun since vehicle rules in 40k turn what should be dynamic tank maneuver warfare into a gunline-based pissing contest, but hey, maybe if you use a really huge double-sized board or something it could be fun.
Has anyone else put together a Ghostkeel? I'm doing mine at the moment, and I really couldn't care less about the pilot. Will I be okay if I just glue the cockpit shut?
>>44157187
To be fair, a proper Mont'ka is doing that in such a way that it shatters your opponent's momentum and makes it nearly impossible to recover, which does take more thinking than basic target priority.
Now I mean, most Tau players don't do proper Mont'kas and Kauyons and just shoot mindlessly, and Mont'ka is the more straightforward of the two approaches but yeah.
Anyhow whilst Tau aren't my highest win rate army, they're certainly my highest tabling rate army. And that says a lot right there.
Hell, I once pulled off a complete tabling only losing a single non-drone model.
>>44157322
My friend did.
It's fine.
>>44154924
Well, it's a pretty weak list actually, so you should be fine.
>>44157322
Sure, do whatever you want with it, it's your model. Personally I think it's kind of a waste since the opening cockpit is a neat little bonus feature but if you don't want to deal with it no one's forcing you to.
>>44157298
Jetbikes are supposed to be moving constantly. They don't park themselves in a line and shoot, then get out of the way whenever something gets close.
Warp Spiders are close-quarters melee units, I don't know how it's JSJ to move TOWARD the enemy.
Battle Focus has nothing to do with this argument.
>>44157309
Show me a couple of Tau units that don't park their asses and shoot
>inb4 Farsight
Ones Tau players actually take.
You have no tactics. You just sit there and shoot. It's not even an army, it's a thickly-spread paste of guns.
>>44157038
>But you will.
Will he now? Last I checked the must take for every tau list was the riptide, not the stormsurge. All the stormsurge does is kills infantry and maybe a few heavier things with D missiles and it's big gun.
Granted, a smart player will overwhelm you with metal boxes (BA have fast ones, so...) and simply tank shock it off the table.
35-55 points well spent.
Get fucked, and I'm a tau player.
>>44157322
When i built mine I didn't realize you had to put the pilot in the cockpit before putting the sides on or you can never get the arms on so i just glued the cockpit shut and it is fine.
>>44157377
>Warp spiders are a CQC unit.
>Battle focus, the definitive JSJ ability, has nothing to do with JSJ.
So you don't know what you are talking about. Thought as much.
>>44157278
Alright, you got me there.
>>44157313
>glue 4 piranha together
>get tank
Acceptable... but costly
>>44157419
Have you ever even seen an Eldar army?
Does the Y and I slits from the tau are a result of sexual dimorphism?
>>44157431
I am an Eldar player. My entire strategy is based around JSJ my guardians out of the firing line.
>>44157377
>Show me a couple of Tau units that don't park their asses and shoot
Everything but Broadsides and Stormsurges, and not even Broadsides if you take a retaliation cadre. What do I win?
God you moron, just because you play against Tau players with no skill and are shitty enough yourself that you can't knock them over with a stiff breeze worth of assault making it across the table doesn't mean everyone else has a shitscrub meta.
>>44157377
>Warp Spiders are close-quarters melee units, I don't know how it's JSJ to move TOWARD the enemy.
They literally have a rule that lets them teleport comically far away whenever they get shot at. They're also just as much a shooting unit as they are an assault unit. Do you even know what you're talking about?
>Battle Focus has nothing to do with this argument.
Why, because it undermines your point entirely? That's awfully convenient for you.
>Show me a couple of Tau units that don't park their asses and shoot
Literally the entire Retaliation Cadre. Y'know, the core formation in the new book's detachment.
>>44157431
Eldar are always doing the usual JSJ and then turbo boosting onto objectives last turn. Now that scatter bikes are a thing they can do that and still have tons of firepower.
>>44157450
>Retaliation Cadre doesn't park and shoot
fucking kek
>>44157449
>you play Tau players with no skill
Too fucking right. They're not tricky to beat.
Anyone know of a good place to get more Beakies on the cheap?
>>44157450
Warp Spiders are NOT melee but thanks for backing me up.
>>44157403
Can you tank shock a GC?
And from what Frontline says, and the competitive ITC types are saying - the Stormsurge is a must take. It has the firepower to kill anything, not just infantry.
>>44157322
It'll work out fine. I put minimal effort into my pilot, and it stays closed fairly well on its own.
>>44157526
Yes, this has been discussed ad nauseam.
You can, it's viable if you can get the vehicles close, the end.
>>44157526
So every Tau player has to play an all out competitive list at all times?
>>44157485
>>Retaliation Cadre doesn't park and shoot
>fucking kek
If that's what they're doing then they're doing it wrong. I'm sorry that everyone you know that plays Tau is an idiot, but maybe don't generalize your experiences with a handful of people to an entire army?
>>44157526
>And from what Frontline says, and the competitive ITC types are saying - the Stormsurge is a must take. It has the firepower to kill anything, not just infantry.
That's more what Frankie's been saying; other people have been taking lists that use different strategies (i.e., ninja Tau) and have done well. I think it's too early to say which is better overall and I think it also depends a lot on the meta you expect to play against.
>>44157337
As another Tau player, how do you set up Kauyon properly? I never feel like I can bait properly, and when I do, either the bait gets destroyed or I can't kill the lured unit well enough.
Can the vehicle still shoot in the shooting phase it uses the supa turbo thrusta?
>>44157337
>Hell, I once pulled off a complete tabling only losing a single non-drone model.
Jesus Christ, I hope it wasn't Orks or something
>>44157598
Sorry, forgot to attach image
>>44157169
Taufaggot in hardcore denial, but his vitriol gives away his shame. Deep down he knows hes playing an easymode, faggoty army.
>>44157622
Kill yourself.
>>44157644
Wow, you need some Preparation H, my man. I've not seen such an inflamed ass since the last time Taufaggots shat up a thread.
>>44157620
RAW no, but RAI probably, since it seems to replace flat out.
It's up to you and your group.
>>44157667
I love how Taufags and Tauhatefags are equally fucking annoying.
>>44157582
To be honest I'm not sure Kauyon works as a tabletop tactic as much as it does a strategy in the narrative. Kauyon-centric tactics are really just about getting someone to walk into your gunline crossfire with as much exposure as possible, right? You don't necessarily have to set bait to do that. You just need to set up your interceptors and supporting fire as beneficially as possible. At some point they have to come to you because there's objectives they need to score, they need linebreaker, they need to try to kill you, etc. You don't set the bait, the bait sets itself.
Personally, I think Kauyon actually is the less tactical "easy" way to play Tau. Catching the enemy off guard and then crippling them in one turn with Mont'ka is a lot trickier to do since they obviously know it's coming and have time to prepare.
>>44157667
>>44157644
Jesus Christ both of you shit the fuck up.
>>44157582
mostly via supporting fire and/or interceptor.
>>44157562
They dont have to, but in the past 3 years since Ive moved to Phoenix and started playing pick up games - Ive seen one, ONE Tau player field a list that wasnt just a static gunline with markerlights, missiles, and Riptides everywhere. He was actually the only time Ive seen a Tau player field only one Riptide. Tau players seem to think their lists are 'fluffy' which to them somehow means it isnt competitive? They are an obtuse, self-centered group of players in my experience.
I used to want to paint a Tau army for myself, but I have no desire to be associated with that playerbase.
>>44157582
Extensively prepped overwatch traps. I find a three Ghostkeel unit with counterfire defence systems makes for a really juicy bait: Nearly a quarter of my army in one nigh-invulnerable to shooting unit.
>>44157618
Deathwing with a small amount of greenwing support.
Drip-feeding me slow assault units from the sky when I had massed burst cannons and some AP2 was a bad idea, and honestly I'd prolly turn that matchup down if it came up again to not be an ass.
>>44157199
And let's not forget Aun'va getting pissy about Fire Warrior leaders being too respectful of Farsight.
A Tzeentch vs Tau campaign would be great to see Tau getting shrekt by psychic powers. Even better would be a Blood Ravens vs Tau campaign to get some fucking rules for the cunts finally.
>>44157582
I agree with >>44157719 but the way I do it is that I incorporate Kauyon more into my narrative. I play a mostly infantry Tau army focused around stealth and sniping. Precision shots and harassment. In my head I'm an advance force for a much larger fluff Cadre tasked with doing hit and runs and de-clawing the target of as many special weaponry as possible. That in itself is the bait as they are incensed by my tactics and trudge forward stubbornly and do critical mistakes or they remove themselves from Tau space with their tails between their legs.
I don't think a fluff-correct Kauyon is really doable considering the opponent can see your reserves and the battlefield. The tactic is mitigated greatly by the sheer fact of battlefield omniscience.
>>44157777
Boy, that sounds fun to play against....
>>44157848
>to get some fucking rules for the cunts finally.
>finally.
They had rules in 4th ed.
>>44157762
If it's a static gunline then it isn't competitive, it's just a lazy net-list for shitty WAAC, that abuse under costed units to win casual games.
>>44157848
Blood Ravens are codex adherent, their only standout feature being their higher rates of psykers, which wasn't even really represented in the vidya.
Just run a librarius conclave if you want to do Blood Ravens.
>>44157891
Please post them then.
>>44157871
You do kinda need to ingore the Ghostkeels in favour of getting rid of more vulnerable shit first to leave them unsupported, yeah.
People haven't really caught on yet. They're really tempting to try to hit.
>>44157922
>Spoonfeed me
Look them up yourself.
>>44157871
Charge it with a sacrificial unit, then charge it with a real cqc unit. Overwatch negated, powerfist IDs the T5.
>>44157239
not taking sides here but space marines can get JSJ too
>>44157939
>Make outlandish claim
>Ask for proof
>GO LOOK FOR SOME YOURSELF
The burden on proof is on you buddy, or are you just shitposting?
>>44157762
The new books make more interesting lists that use multiple deployment strategies and reserves actually a functional thing for Tau, so I'd expect to see more people using varied tactics in time. Then again, you can also still just take a unit of two Stormsurges and a Riptide Wing and lay down the dakka. A certain segment of the playerbase is going to be lazy and run that list instead of trying to find something clever that works - the same way that hordes of Eldar players spammed Wave Serpents for years (and are now spamming Scat Bikes). If it's simple to construct and simple to play and still gets results people are going to play it.
That said, as >>44157916 points out static gunlines can't win in competitive formats. They just can't. You need progressive objective scoring units. Static gunlines are just something kids play to feel special in local casual games without actually playing the game well.
Bear in mind that a Riptide doesn't have to be static, though. Motherfuckers can jump 4D6 if they have to. If that's not mobility I don't know what is.
>>44157922
Download the space marine codex from 4th edition, you lazy faggot. Hey, just download Index Astartes if you want their rules from 3rd edition too
>>44158003
>4chan
>not a court of law
fucking chicken meme, just google it.
>>44158003
They have been posted here a dozen times. If you haven't seen them by now well then tough.
Don't believe me? Google "blood Ravens 4th edition." Not hard is it?
>>44157993
Would prolly work if you sucessfully outmaneuvered me and I didn't then see that coming and withhold overwatch for the second unit.
That said, I generally use my jets so that I pick what units my Ghostkeels are in tempting charge range of, rather than exposing them to your entire force at once.
I'd be interested to see you pull it off, then try to work out counter-countertactics afterwards.
>>44158014
>Bear in mind that a Riptide doesn't have to be static, though. Motherfuckers can jump 4D6 if they have to.
Seriously?
Ha ha wow, that makes the guy who let me corner two Riptides with a D-thirster look worse: If he'd done that I'd only have been able to kill one.
>>44155113
I love knights but Jesus whoever made this made that one on the ledge look like a derpy cygnar warjack.
>>44157855
>>44157719
The way I see Kauyon is mostly baiting your opponent forward and then springing reserves out of nowhere to shoot them when they think they have the advantage. Tabletop wise I represent it with stealth teams sitting around guiding deep striking units in with homing beacons, like the rapid insertion force.
Conversely Mont'ka uses much less set up, it's just jumping down down on you out of nowhere and shooting you in the face, like the retaliation cadre.
>>44158101
>Knights but Jesus
Somebody convert up a Jesus-piloted Imperial Knight.
>>44158014
I'm not a Tau Player, but even I like the riptides for this reason. Granted, I especially love the Y'vahra, and genuinely believe that it's a god-tier riptide for tournaments.
They don't even need to roll 4d6, they just activate their monstrously oversized Vector Thrusters and jump 24". And if you're cornered/in melee, Nova-Charge the Vector Thrusters to literally jump into ORBIT(Entering reserves).
Also great for fluffy Farsight builds, seeing as they're literally the "Melee riptide". Bring them with lightsaber suits and proctologist-pattern crisiswings, then intentionally get into melee.
Part of me wants to at some point get a tau army like that, purely to show off lesser tau players that gunline. Gunlining is boring, especially when you have the option of bringing suits that can fucking fly into orbit mid-fight and then kamikazi smash some clowns that think tau suck in melee.
>>44158103
It's not necessarily anything to do with reserves, so much as putting your enemy exactly where you want them for maximum fire coverage.
>>44158092
It's one of the Nova Reactor abilities, so it's possible he didn't want to use it since he was already wounded or failed the roll? Either that or he already used it for something else, like the 3+ invulnerable save, the alternate shooting profile, etc. That's going to be much less of an issue for people using the new formation, though, since that lets you re-roll failed Nova Reactor results as long as it's near another Riptide unit in the formation.
Granted, the idiot still got cornered by a D-thirster. How the fuck did he manage that? I think that alone shows how retarded your opponents have been.
>>44158253
Hazard suits are more fun, just jump into your opponent's face and dump dozens of shots into them and when they get charged laugh at your opponent because they have photon grenades and WS3, then club the pricks to death.
>>44158253
Spamming cheap Monstrous Creatures should not be confused for having a powerful melee army.
That said, you'll probably hit hard if nobody's expecting it.
>>44157922
>>44158003
This meme is worse than pepe
>>44157916
Which is realistically 95% of the Tau playerbase. Non JSJ/gunlining/markerlights + missiles Tau lists are as rare as an englishman with good teeth.
>>44158274
>Granted, the idiot still got cornered by a D-thirster. How the fuck did he manage that? I think that alone shows how retarded your opponents have been.
Well, the two blocks of 20 flesh hounds with heralds kinda had most of his attention the first two shooting phases.
>>44158308
Still not as fun as trolling Ork Players by forcing their Horde to run back and forth across the table. I don't want to play gunline tau if I ever get them, I just want the fastest fucking list ever. And with twin-linked weapons everywhere to minimize the need for markerlights(Which most people don't seem to understand the concept of).
What kind of weapons do the Hazard Suits have?
>>44158311
It's not about being a powerful melee army. It's about trolling people who (rightfully!) expect Tau to gunline, then have mechs literally flying everywhere, snagging objectives left and right, and being impossible to react to effectively.
>>44158253
>Tau are the literal masters of shooting
>BUT LOOK WERE THE FUCKING MELEE MASTERS TOO
goddamn it never ends
can 5 flash gits in a battlewagon with killcannon and lobba work?
>>44158253
>>44158308
Here's the problem I have with this. Those are really fun, fairly fluffy options that sound like they'd be fun to play against.
But they're both Forge World. Meaning GW proper has decided that no, you should have to park your force and spam S5/7. Which makes sense, because I have never. Ever. Seen a Tau player who didn't form up a gunline and start shooting, and then shit himself when I DS'd/Outflanked him and locked his suits in melee.
This is basically saying, hey, if you don't want to spend absolutely ridiculous amounts of money on a single bunch of units, you have to be a shitlord. And people do.
>>44158402
>trolling Orks
That's like beating the shit out of a puppy. What the hell could it have done to you anyway?
>>44158410
"Dakka"
You'z got da righ' idea Bozz. Put dat dakka in dA' DAKKA, DAT MAKES MORE DAKKA. Ah'n demz flash gitz don't got 'eavy armour becuz deys' guns too 'eavy, so da battle wagon give dem da' good armour, and let dem move around
