If you could change one event in history, what would it be?
It could be anything from stopping the extinction of ammonites to getting the last piece of cake.
For me it's one of the three: turning great strike of 1877 into a full fledged revolution. Just how Marx predicted it, the most powerful nation leads a proletarian revolution.
Second: After Cesar death, republican forces manage to win the civil war and maintain status quo.
Third: England decisively wins the hundred years war and manages to keep their hold on French land for at least a hundred years.
Germany wins WW2
>>44113692
OP's mom decided to abort.
Central Powers Victory
>>44113908
p. good. I like having Carthage win the Second Punic War, personally.
Dinosaurs never go extinctI don't mean crocodiles you faggot, you know exactly what I'm talking about
General Motors does not buy out local cable car networks (hundreds of privately-owned businesses that worked so well the government didn't need to shovel money into them) under puppet companies, only to physically destroy them and leave gaps, forcing people to buy automobiles at a ridiculous relative price for daily commute.
>>44113983Yes, we do. Birds. We live in your world, anon.
France never surrenders
Just to turn the meme around
>>44113983
Which kind? Which extinction?
Modern life is kinda contingent on them not existing, anon.
>>44113692
see, i'm not really up for potentially fucking the entirety of human kind.
So i'm just gonna make damn sure i manage to force my dad to buy a thunderball ticket that one week where we'd have won if he duplicated his normal lottery ticket. 3 million quid would be quite nice desu.
>>44114021
Birds can't mate with T-Rexs. Therefore, T-Rex is extinct. This is the opposite of what I want, but you already knew that when you made an attempt at being clever.
>>44114063
>Which kind? Which extinction?
All of 'em
>Modern life is kinda contingent on them not existing, anon.
What's your point? OP said I got to change something, I pick dinosaurs.
The bullet that hit JFK miss (shooting still happen)
>>44113692
>If you could change one event in history, what would it be?
I would really like to see what would happen if the Unequal Treaties and the general shitty treatment that Japan got prior to militarization of the regime were never took place.
I'd like to see if Japan would still end up going the military route or not.
>>44113692
The plagues that wiped out 90% of Native American populations never happened.
Or
The Ottomon Empire never got carved up.
Or
9/11 never happened.
>>44113692
Spain is unable to unite the various tribes against the Incans and is instead driven out of South America leading to a very different formation of North America as it becomes the central point for three major powers
East India Company is never dissolved and absorbed by the British Parliament and continues to exist as an autonomous corporate state that controls most international trade and sets the standard of modern merchant groups controlling a military force
Rome is unsuccessful in conquering the rest of Europe and never builds the extensive infrastructure across the Western World
>>44113692
hitler wins.
not because i support that ideology or because i'm curious what it would be like, but because i like to watch the world burn.
we had a near miss from an extinction level meteor not to long ago, make that shit hit.
>>44114296
What was that book where Hitler won WW2 but everything turned out basically the same in the modern day?
>>44114296
You're aware that what you need to change is absolutely nothing, right?
>>44113692
Libertarianism is never invented as a concept.
moot is never born
>>44114296
>>44114308
Conversely, have one of the numerous attempts on Hitler's life from within his own regime succeed, and then let them take over the war.
Vikings never start settling or accepting danegelds, ahd continue raiding right up into modern day.
Or they successfully colonize North America, and have a powerful empire on the east coast if the continent, trading and warring with the natives
>>44114611
That, or the Library of Alexandria gets left alone. Pick any of the three, and I'm happy
>>44113692
The money and/or outer space treaty(ies) were never signed, and America ends up building orion battleships and colonizing the moon.
That there were strains of smallpox and plague and so on in the Americas so that natives didn't get their shit fucked by foreign diseases during the colonization era.
If only to see if it changes anything significant.
the electric car doesn't get smothered
Genghis Khan doesn't die in the middle of the mongols attempt to subjugate Europe. They thought they had a divine mandate to conquer the whole world, I want to see how far they would have gone had politics not gotten in the way.
>>44113939
My nigga. Carthage strong!
>>44114709
This.
If Christopher Clombus came over on the Mayflower and discovered another iron age civilization it would be hella interesting. Imagine seeing how native americans would become when they moved in a medieval age or beyond.
>>44113692
Baron von Ungern-Sternberg is not betrayed by his troops and defeats the Soviet army in Siberia, returning victorious to Mongolia to complete his work of establishing a syncretic Buddhist-Orthodox theocracy in central Asia.
>>44113692
Constantine I dies at the Battle of the Milvian Bridge.
>>44116778
Would "white guilt" over the defeat of the Indians still be a thing if the Indians had been able to put of more of a fight before going down?
Would it be even worse because people would see them as a genuinely worthy civilization?
Ward and Crudd are stillborn.
>>44119265
They didn't actually need to be stronger.
Just make it so that the plague that wiped out 75-90% of their population prior to colonisation never happen and North American would likely have never been colonised due to the enormous amount of money and effort it would take.
>>44119418
Oh right
TL:DR we colonised a post apocalypse North America
>>44117181
If that happened, we'd have either ended up with a world where his empire was the third Axis power instead of Japan, denying America casus belli to join the European theater and guaranteeing an Axis victory against the Soviets, or there would have been a third faction in WWII that made the Nazis look like good guys.
Either way, the world as we know it would not exist, and it would be for the worse.
>>44113692
Last year we got invaded by Musket wielding xenos who travel FTL using some very simple method we overlooked.That short story gave me a boner
>>44113692
The Russians try to get past the Cuban blockade.
>>44113692
Life never comes to exist.
A world where the Wow! signal in 1977 wasn't an anomaly but the beginning of contact with an extraterrestrial civilization.
>>44117433
How mad would you be if the next emperor after him decided to christianize Rome?
>>44119609
>>44114308
Fatherland
Whatever was the first modern human male to evolve, I swap places with him.
Gonna get me some first human woman pussy, and daddy the whole race.
Religions never formed.
Too many wars and bad decisions in the name of this god or that god.
Besides, people shouldn't have to believe in divine punishment or eternal bliss to behave in a morally and ethically correct way. People should be good because it's the right thing to do.
>>44119758
in that case, kill all the roman emperors
Ron Paul wins a presidential election.
>>44113692
1.The destruction of The Hindenburg never happens; its creator defects to the US.
2. The sinking of The Titanic never happens
3.Allowing the Jews to enact their plans of genocide BEFORE Hitler comes to power. Genuinely interested if people then would side with Hitler, or the Jews who want to kill them
OR
4. General Electric is successful in funding and creating a Warframe
>>44120797
Fedoras never invented
>>44120987
I have a bigger problem with Islam than christianity
But most of them do stupid shit for petty reasons
>>44120987
>all these anti-natalists in this thread
How is it in babby's first philosophy class?
Answer to the thread question:
Marcus Aurelius gives the succession to his adoptive son instead of his biological son.
>>44121078
huh, I watched a documentary about him last month. What do you think will happen? Would a lot of things change?
>>44120909
That's an interesting idea.
>Caesar gets ultra-syphilis from Cleopatra and promptly dies
>never makes it back to Rome
>never gets assassinated by Brutus and friends
>no Imperial Rome
She says yes...
Serious answers:
A world where gunpowder was never discovered.
>>44121133
>Caesar dies
so..the Roman Empire becomes severely weakened, passed on to a weak and stupid emperor, and in a hundred years will cease to exist?
>>44121120
Dunno. I do know that commodus is considered by some to be the decline of the roman empire, and he definitely tarnished Aurelius' legacy. It'd be interesting to see what someone raised to the throne without as much nepotism could have done.
>>44121205
then we would have some form of gyrojet?
>>44121227
Based on my limited understanding of the Roman Empires, they pretty much "love" nepotism. That emperor would pretty much do a lot of reforms before being assassinated by a bunch of dick guards.
>>44121325
err..did I say Roman Empires? huh..need some sleep
>>44121209
No, without Ceasar, the line of emperors never starts- Rome stays a republic for its entire history.
>>44120797
Religions form naturally due to the inate desire for humans to understand, explain, and categorize the world around them, well as to seek an existential or metaphysical purpose to their existence in order to not fall prey to sepf-destructive ennui. Even if Religion was never formed, people will still seek other means to differentiate themselves as others, and to use those acts of "labelling" to justify their anger and hatred for the other group and to mentally dehumanize them in their mind since they stop being "human" and instead become "The Other". What you are asking is for the complete alteration of human mentality, which may as well be asking for the extinction of the human race as we know it, since that need and desire for " labelling " is also the driving for for the evolution of scientific thought and every single mental discipline from Metaphysics, Physics, Chemistry, Mathematics, Ethics, Language, Economics, Biology, and politics.
Heck, we probably wouldn't even have sapience as we know it, or at least none with language communication as we know it.
>>44113692
Temujin (Ghengis Kahn/Chingis Han) dies in childhood.
Arab Sultinate and Chinese Empire eventually establish competing colonies to civilize the backward barbarian tribes of Europe, just wind up fighting each other.
>>44119452
>>44117181
When did 4chan discover this guy?
He's an amazing villain, but I feel like almost nobody has heard of him.
>>44121542
>Rome stays a republic for its entire history.
Which would probably be less than a century after the death of Julius Caesar.
>>44119418
It would have been colonized later in the same way Africa was instead.
>>44120635
If you're the first modern human male to evolve the only human females that exist will fall under one of the following categories:
Your mom
Your sisters
Your daughters
You could always breed with non-modern humans though.
>>44113692
Big Bang - Bang = Big
>>44121133
How in the world would Caesar get syphilis it came from the Americas.
>>44113692
Moot never makes 4chan.
>>44113692
The human genome develops in a way that would make humans more intelligent.
>>44114015
MY JIMMIES
DAMMIT
I DIDN'T WANT TO BE REMINDED OF THIS
>>44114234
Nah nigga
Instead of Columbus," finding" the Americas, Europe gets," found " by some Native explorer.
>>44113692
THE CRUSADES NEVER CEASE; RIGHTEOUSNESS IS ETERNAL!
>>44122899
Got a problem with honest, God fearing, capitalism, boy? You some kind of communist?
>>44122971
No, more-so the wrecking of something that was useful, worked well, and was profitable.
It's more like having an issue with a particular village being burned down rather than war itself.
>>44113939
I came here to post Carthage winning, too. Or really just Hannibal and his army not holding back right at the last minute.
Poland successfully drives off the Nazis all by themselves.
The Byzantines/ERE never fuck up and allow the Arabs to overrun their southern provinces in the 630s. Islamic expansion is checked right out of the gate.
>>44122932
> Europe gets," found " by some Native explorer.
who dies of smallpox a week later
The secret of nuclear weaponry never gets stolen or otherwise given to the Soviets. I suspect this leads to the Soviets getting desperate and zerg-rushing Europe by 1950 and Moscow getting nuked.
Women didn't get the right to vote.
>>44122639
>evolve
I'm too old to believe in fairy tales.
>>44113692
Operation Unthinkable happens
The American Revolution ends in a British victory
Muhammad dies in the womb
What's the alternate history if Muhammad never existed and Islam is never created? It would be nice if the Middle East just had it's own Christian sect (Gnostic or Coptic or one of the other old-school ones), but I don't think that's how things would turn out. Without an Islamic golden age to preserve classical literature and ideas, could the Renaissance still happen in Europe? Is the world better or worse in the absence of the Renaissance and the Enlightenment?
>>44114115
T-rex would still be long gone by this point in time..
Kill gengis before he united the tribes. So china and middle east wpnt get fucked back to stone age and would compete with europe
>>44123422
I was just using the same formatting as the post I was replying to.
>>44123136
So they fend of the Nazis but still lose to the Russians.
That fall onto my head when I was four never happened.
The Library of Alexandria was never sac'd and burned
That my son was still alive
>>44119527
Mankind goes on to steamroll the galaxy with M4's and nukes.
HUMANITY, FUCK YEAH!
>>44119418
>North American would likely have never been colonised
Yeah, because in no way did the Spaniards hold down South America and fuck it in the windpipe for hundreds of years, right?
The difference is that there would never have been a wave of small-farming colonists, not the 19th century ones or the Mayflower one. All of the US would have been essentially Virginia-style plantations, with Comanches and shit in place of most of the black slaves (still a ton of those, though, just look at Brazil).
>>44123795
>What's the alternate history if Muhammad never existed and Islam is never created?
The Middle East doesn't become a bastion of trade between the East and the West. China doesn't become as strong in the first half of the second millennium because of the lack of trade for their silk and porcelain industries. Europe remains a backwater without Arabic numerals, advanced architecture or any knowledge from the ancient Greeks. Europeans don't engage in long distance oceanic trade to compete with the Islamic monopoly on trade from the East and don't colonize anywhere, including the Americas. Maybe the Byzantines become the dominant superpower?
What you really want to do is prevent the Mongols from sacking Baghdad.
>>44124560
Gengis didn't fuck China. China grew stronger than ever after the Mongols. Their treasure fleet in 1400 had 300 ships and some 26,000 men.
>>44124901
They wouldn't have black slaves. Those were only brought over because diseases killed off the Indians.
Rasputin survived EVERYTHING.
>>44120909
>>44121133
>the Republic adopts Christianity wholesale c:a 100 since there are no strong men to persecute it and it's immensely popular among influential men's wives
Stalin dies in 1919.
It's all it takes to make the 20th century good.
Poland is conquered, german communists strengthened, hitler can't stabilize his power, communists in spain and china win in the thirties, franco's out and mao is less powerful... WWII if it happens is capitalists vs communists and the political consciousness of humanity progresses whoever wins.
>>44119527
Yeah, but the sequel is depressing. Humanity goes down the exact same path, stopping all unrelated progress once they figure out FTL. They think that'd be enough to conquer the universe, since almost every other interstellar civilization stopped around the gunpowder age... until they happen upon one which has somehow managed to advanced many centuries beyond us without ever figuring FTL (they've colonized their own entire system on purely STL ships). We get our asses handed over to us, they manage to reverse engineer our engines, and the cycle begins anew.
>>44113692
The dark ages never happened.
way too much anti-west sentiment in this thread
Saulos Tarseus (St. Paul, though he may not never be called that) doesn't decide to compromise Jesus' original ideas in order to sell them to the Romans, preventing the creation of Christianity as we'd recognize it and leaving it as an esoteric subsect of extreme messianic Judaism. Rome either goes on unchristianized, Or the Jews actually take over.At least /pol/ would have something real to talk about for once.
On July 4th, 2015, the united states enacted an agreement to dispose of every single nuclear armament in their possession, along with Russia, China, and the countries of NATO. They all launch their nukes into space.
North Korea joins, and shoots a rock of uranium at the moon, not knowing how to make a true nuke. The rocket is still buried into the surface.
>>44125072
Leaving all the nukes in the world in Isreal, India, and Pakistan, surely nothing can go wrong.
>>44125069
>Jews take over
back in those days? Oh shit man, all those /pol/ theories become reality. They'll kill/enslave anyone/everyone that isn't a jewwonder how they'll fare against vikings?
>>44125092
Since the Indians and Pakistanis would forever be stuck in a nuclear cold war, glaring at each other without any of them daring to push the button, this essentially puts ALL the nukes in Israeli hands.
>>44124935
You're going out of your way to be pessimistic about that.
Trade and the silk road predates islam, an could develop without it, as the caliphate didn't stay united for that long anyway. The byzantines could have done the same.
And most of the arab contributions to progress came from persia/india or from the remains of the eastern roman empire. Islam was not needed, as soon as western europe got its shit back together they would have gone out to seek knowledge and riches like they did in reality.
They probably would have waited some more before trying to cross the oceans without the fall of constantinople... But that's not a bad thing.
>>44125136recipe for disaster. Lavon Affair part 2
The Cambrian-Ordovician extinction event is delayed by another 10 million years.
>>44125134
>wonder how they'll fare against vikings?
Hard to say. I hear conflicting statements about the historical Hebrews/Jews whatever. I read some places that ancient cultures considered them pretty badass. The Romans reportedly almost decided to just leave Judea alone because conquering it didn't seem worth the effort, which is impressive.
My first instinct is to want that to happen, since I understand that Jewish religion is very scholarship minded and I read that they consider it a holy commandment to learn science (so who knows where our technology would be today, if Judaism had been the dominant religion?), but on the other hand, a lot of what I think today about Judaism pertains strictly to the more secularized, Ashkenazi Jews born during their diaspora in Eastern Europe. Without a diaspora, they'd have been left another race of religious brown people.And no buxom Jewish waifus, too.
>>44123795
>own Christian sect
>not the rebirth of Zoroastrianism
>>44113692
Why is this on /tg/ and not /his/?
I know the board is garbage, but ffs.
>>44125173
To be honest, I forgot Hiroshimoot even made a Hist board. I really don't pay much attention to the announcement sticker
>>44125166
well, about the technology part..they don't have any restraints about that right? Unlike Islam who can't do this or do that because "Allah can only do that"? Maybe we'll be seeing golems if Judaism became the dominant religion..
>no buxom Jewish waifus
oh the humanity..
The various countries of the world, seeking claims on extraterrestrial territories, pumped most of their military funding into space-related r&d instead of wasting it on wars and prohibitively expensive weapons.
The us's military budget alone being used for that...imagine the great things that could come of it.
>>44125197
"United Space of America". There would be no wars, only genocides. At least, according to Section 8
>>44125191
>Maybe we'll be seeing golems if Judaism became the dominant religion..
Jewish theologican scientists (it's telling that there's a field for that) have been debating the issue of AI for decades, specifically from the point of view of the golem, whether an AI could be religious and whether it would be okay to use a goy AI to perform Jewish works (I shit you not, this is an issue for them. The guys are thinking about creating AI, but at the same time it concerns them whether or not it'll be kosher. It's like the Protoss.)
>>44125138
>Trade and the silk road predates islam, an could develop without it, as the caliphate didn't stay united for that long anyway.
First, the Silk Road isn't really a thing. Second, Islam was/is the most trade oriented religion in the worldeven more than the Jews. Before Islamic merchants, basically no goods reached Europe from the far East.
>The byzantines could have done the same.
Maybe, but the Byzantines were much more xenophobic. The reason Islam spread so rapidly is because it was tolerant and inclusive, unlike the standing Byzantine and Persian masters.
>And most of the arab contributions to progress came from persia/india or from the remains of the eastern roman empire. Islam was not needed
Once again, read above. Only Islam had such a meteoric rise and had the tolerance to unite such diverse beliefs in one area with intellectual purges.
For the record, this comes from someone that thinks modern Islam is a cancer upon the world and should be eradicated.
>>44125267
Specifically, the biggest issue is whether or not an AI could be allowed to function on the Shabbas, since if it capable of moral reasoning and intelligence it should be considered a person and thus capable of sinning against that particular rule. The problem is that to turn off an AI for the Shabbas might or might not kill it, which would be either murder or suicide. Furthermore, there's debate on whether or not a non-Jewish AI could act as a "Shabbas goy", which is itself a controversial issue in Judaism (used to be times when it would be popular for Jews to hire goy servants to work for them on the Shabbas, but most Jewish religious authorities have found that unlawful).
Japan successfully took over all of china through a series of successful campaigns and a large amount of defectors from China supporting Japan. The new japanese superpower then proceeds to claim korea, vietnam, and pretty much all of asia.
>>44125267
>>44125294
Wait wait wait wait..what the fuck? And just how will they give it "goy AI"? By grabbing the nearest goy off the street then tranferring the consciousness to the golem?
>>44125464
If it's a person (intelligent, moral) and not a Jew, it is by definition a goy. Jews could create a goy AI as easily as they could make an AI and not give it Jewish religion.
>>44113692
I go back and fuck the first cavewomen. You all become my descendantsFoolish OP, don't you know that's how all time traveling competitions are played? First one to become the other's father is the winner
>>44125487
huh. So it's either enslavement or kidnapping and irreparable modification - the price of making a goylem
I think it would be neat to see what would happen if the French ended up winning the Seven Years War.
On a related note, would anyone happen to know a good history of the Seven Years War? Looking for Christmas gifts.
>>44120973
>Allowing the Jews to enact their plans of genocide
...what?
>>44125524
No, no kidnapping and modification. The creation of an intelligence that isn't Jewish, by Jewish law, would be the creation of a goy intelligence. There's no question of kidnapping at all, since that doesn't interest Jewish AI specialists. They want to make it from scratch, but they're concerned because if they make it Jewish they'll have to murder it each week, and if they don't make it Jewish it'd be unethical of them to ask it to serve.
4chan never comes to be.
>>44125191
>well, about the technology part
No European Jews means no Einstein, so there's no guarantee anyone would figure out relativity.
>>44125561
hmm...in your opinion, will they be able to create a an AI in our lifetime? And do you think it will be Je AI or goy AI?
>>44126141
*Jew AI. Damn I need sleep
>>44125603
Interesting. Hmm I wonder, what made Einstein so special? How would the world look like if we didn't figure out relativity..
>>44125287
>Before Islamic merchants, basically no goods reached Europe from the far East.
Do you have a source for that ? I would check muself but don't know where to look.
I remember that silk was used in the roman empire. Cato or Cicero or someone like that even complained that silk clothes that women wore were indecent.
And xenophobia is not such an obstacle to trade. Byzantines hated the italian merchants, and they still welcomed their money.
>>44125603
I'm torn on that one specifically because of "No European Jews". On the one hand, most of what we consider "Jewish intelligence" is really just Ashkenazi intelligence, and these guys wouldn't have existed. On the other hand, it was Maimonides, a Jew from the Islamic world, who started the trend of Jewish philosophers/clergymen also being scientists and said that science was the key to understanding God and thus the duty of the Jews.
>>44114296
Meh, that's the worst point to choose personally. You would be better off either choosing a key part of early humanity's "history" that we are unaware of like "Grug the missing link chocked to death on that chicken bone".
Or a period where we were closer to destruction like "That message to launch all the nukes got through/the guy who would launch the nukes got elected and they actually did it the absolute madmen"
I doubt if hitler would have done much to this shithole.
The internet isn't invented
Marx and Engels die as soon as they meet eachother. No Das Kapital, no Communist Manifesto, left-wing ideas develop from a completely different source and we are free of that cancer in our society
>>44113692
Humanity stop fighting eachother to focus on space travel, galactic colonization and mining resources from other planets/asteroids.
>>44122932
Go full CK2, We Sunset Invasion now.
Rhodesia never dies.
>>44113692
i'd give vercingetorix the heads up that caesar was on his way to alesia. just to see what would change
The nazis don't betray soviets, creating a three side war. Superscience Nazi empire vs mother russia commies vs FREEDOM EAGLE LAND
>>44126599
Spoken truly like someone who has no idea what either of those people did.
I'd go back in time and grab Muhammad before he starts his cult, then drop him off in a 70s hippy commune. Try starting your death cult with a bunch of stoned pacifists, asshole.
>>44113692
Harold Godwinson survives and wins the battle of Hastings, repelling the pretenderrightful heirWilliam and securing Anglo-Saxon rule in the country.
>>44127845
Then a different leader of a different tribe rises to power instead, uniting his followers a new original religion - Blislam.
A time traveller from this new timeline, seeking to destroy the scourge of Blislam at its source, takes this prophet and drops him in a hippie commune in the 70s. Now instead the new original religion of Grislam is formed...
Eventually, so many Arabic prophets are dropped into the hippie commune that they are able to assemble into an army, concentrating their power of doing basically the same as any other time a religion has formed to create a powerful new religion, Omega Islam. However as they all live in a hippie commune no one hears of it or cares and it dies overnight. All trace is destroyed when civilization is swept away by the tide of Spislam.
>>44127925
>>44127845
You do realize that Mohammed is actually the replacement of the real timeline's "evil medieval prophet," right?
Time travelers already scooped up the original, and dumped him in a hippie commune. It didn't turn out so well.
>>44124980
I would go further back and have Paris Commune somehow succeed, making young Lenin think that maybe nice things may sometime happen in this world. Leading to a better Russian revolution and then your thing.
>>44124980
If we're talking alternate Russian history, then Alexander II never is assassinated. Russia maybe, just maybe gets their shit together and never goes through the Communist revolution.
Prussia survives WW1 and remains in its highly militarized mindset.
Just curious to see the interaction between Nazi Germany and Future Prussia.
>>44126171
>Byzantines hated the italian merchants, and they still welcomed their money.
I'm now imagining passive aggressive trade negotiations.
>>trap music is no longer a music genre
>>people still ask others if they like trap music
>if they say yes, they're bullshitting hipsters
>>44114034
Slightly shorter war, Paris gets bombed to rubble. Depending on how hard they fight and the damage inflicted, the west might have pushed all the way to Berlin before the ruskies were even close. Over all probably a better outcome.
>>44128456
>Well, fine, then. I guess you can sell your wine here. You know, if you want.
>>44129644
>I-It's not like I like your spices, or anything
Despite being Metal as fuck, I'd change the Hellburners. Instead, the Brits just send a bundle of cash to the Dutch rebels. Maybe this is helpful in taking Antwerp, maybe it isn't. That isn't the issue.
No, without the Hellburners the Spanish will not fear the haphazardly slapped together English fireships, they will not break formation, they will trounce the English fleet and land ground forces in England.
With the Spanish overstretched, the Dutch rebels win even harder and faster than they did, England never develops into the empire it became, the Anglo-Dutch wars are one-sided pummelings, and the Dutch have unrivalled world domination, as it should have been.
>>44128442
Prussia, being traditionalist as all fuck, rolls up to throw out the socialist Adolf, and later goes to war with Russia while not being retarded, and makes communism fall 50 years ahead of time.
