I'm talking rules from the game. Never got into it but what is the most OP'd chapter, old rules or current. I notice SW and Smurfs get a lot of hate and was wondering if it comes from this.
>>44033714
>Never got into it but what is the most OP'd chapter, old rules or current.
Every time a new SM codex drops, they become "the most powerful" or nearso until the next codex.
Gray Knights and Blood Angels (before flying land raiders became passe) held this title
Black Templars, they outnumber the others 10 to 1.
>>44033803
Oh whoops, didn't read in relation to the actual boardgame. Then yeah, this >>44033801
>>44033801
SM is not a chapter. Ultramarines with their ridiculous CT and the Fists as well. Two brutal chapters to fight.
>>44033714
I personally liked the Terminator Missile spam Black Templars could do, it wrecked face in shooting and close combat. I kind of miss that.
lamenters. come at me bro.
Space Sharks.
Or are they Carcharadons now?
>>44033801
>>44033803
>>44033822
>>44033849
>>44033878
Can you guys please explain the benefits to some of these rules, as I said I'm not into the game (yet) but am considering it. Big in the novels and fluff though.
>>44033803
Do they ever list the number of Space Wolves or DA and their "successor chapters"? they have to be pretty high
>>44033803
Im pretty sure that got retconned/changed by the way. I remember hearing something about how they're down to around 2k or so, which while large for SM, isnt exactly legion strength.
>>44033914
i am this guy >>44033890
i would agree with that also.
>>44033890
You fucking disgust me!
>>44033714
Raptors. They have Big Boss as their chapter master. Enuff said.
Right now it's the White Scars with their Scarblade Strike Force. Fists are probably second, though I can see Salamanders overtaking them if you take a Skyhammer Annihilation Force.
Ultras are overrated. Tactical Doctrines are cool but temporary.
>>44034076
ok so, im no expert on fluff but, name any other chapter that has gone through the same shit they went through and remained loyalist, who arnt the frickin ultramarines.
>>44034362
i should also preface this with the fact i didnt read OP's part of where this is about TT rules, which would then be 5th ed gray knights. or the ultramarines, in any edition.
>>44033934
SW don't have successors and run a full legion-size chapter, DA run the same bullshit as Ultras where their successors are only nominally independent.
>>44034362
Raven Guard. They went from 100,000 marines, to 100 within the span of a single afternoon. Then with their chapter collectively slaughtered, bent over a pole, and FUCKED HARD, they decided to keep going. Their primarch was given equipment by the emperor to make clones, but he tinkered with it because he needed marines even faster.
What he then got was 1000 normal marines, and 1000 horrible mutants. That's it, just.. A tiny force. But with it, he still went out and hunted traitors on his terms. After losing nearly all of his marines in the process, Rowboat Girlyman forced him to split his remaining marines into chapters of 1000. So without any ability to protest this at all, he split his few remaining marines into the Raven Guard, and the Raptors.
>>44034559
No, the Ultramarines Chapters are completely independent but will come to aid the first founding chapter out of sentimentality and legacy.
Azrael is literally the Supreme Grand Master of the Legion. That's why Azrael's title is Supreme Grand Master, and not merely Grand Master. Every other successor Dark Angel Chapter Master bears the title "Grand Master" because organizationally they are all under Azrael's command.
>>44034582
this is why i said i was not expert on fluff, i know jack about RG. but then, at least they had a primarch at some point. lamenters whole existence was:
"wtf do we do now?"
"just dont die"
>>44034678
Yea, that was pretty much the Raven Guard at the end of the Drop Side Massacre. Even after all was said and done, their Primarch at the end of it was just so depressed, that he went solo into the Eye of Terror for the express purpose of killing himself. Their legion never really recovered from the act. And still to this day, the Raptors are their only successor.
>>44033803
>Black Templars, they outnumber the others 10 to 1.
That has never been the case, if you look at the map Helbrecht commanded AT LEAST 1200 marines spread in 3 crusade in Armageddon, then add the Crusade of Brotherhood and you'll get to 2000 approx. Both crusades happened around the same time, from this we can at least say that there may be 2000 marines between 989M41 and 999M41. Any guesstimate for the real BT numbers have always been around 4000-6000 marines but ultimately we will never know but theyre not 10,000 marines.
>>44033878
Black Templars had an awfully outdated codex that managed to live through 5th ed because you could spam missiles like a motherfucker because a) Cheaper Land Speeder Typhoons and b) Two heavy weapons on 5 man Terminator squads, which meant 3 squads of termies shot 12 S8 AP3 missiles a turn which could easily turn into 20 S8 AP3 shots if you had speeders and/or used 5 man Crusader squads with missile launchers. The whole army had Preferred Enemy as well so if you got caught in close combat you'd be rerolling your hits. Shit was cash but if you ran a list that didnt rely on spamming missiles you got your shit kicked in.
>>44034642
>totally independent except for the part where they're all seated in the senate which we swear isn't stealth legion structures
The ultras are as full of shit as the other First chapters.
>>44034821
Second quote was meant for
>>44033934
>>44034362
Blood Angels, Raven Guard, Celestial Lions, Salamanders, Crimson Fists.
>>44034821
>That has never been the case,
Yes it has. Maybe not anymore, but it definitely was at one point.
>>44035015
Ok, enlighten me, was this in Codex Armageddon?
>>44033714
in fluff minotaur's because they're the high lords attack dogs
Grai Noits?
>>44033714
>old rules or current.
space wolves
they had the first codex in the game
and could take almost an entire army of cyclone-launcher-armed wolf guard in terminator armor, back when terminator armor was fucking awesome
>>44034559
>Full legion
>80k members on average
>SW are 1500 at best
Yep, totally full legion.
The only chapter that ever came close to "legion strength", a very wide adjective, was BT before their downgrade at like 1100 were they were suspected to be 6000, not even confirmed, because the smallest legion, the TS, were 10k strong before the Heresy.
It was still an immense stretch to call the BT legion strength.
>>44034766
>RG
>No succesors
Anon, you need to revise your fluff.
Plus the RG was not 100 strong after the Istvaan massacre, they still had legionnaries that were told to stay at home and others on different missions.
They were heavily diminished, but not THAT much.
>>44039175
Forgot pic
>>44033801
>Every time a new SM codex drops
That's why the current BA dex is so shit, right?
Or the latest GK dex?
Do remember that perennially, space marine armies are among the bottom tier of armies on the table outside of very specific setups.
>>44039298
m-muh free rhinos
>>44039301
>free vp
>>44039145
>Thousand Sons
>Smallest legion
>10k strong
Raven Guard are confirmed as the smallest legion with 90'000 men.
>>44039690
Thousand Sons, the book, says that at the start of the Heresy they were 11k strong.
In terms of relative effectiveness on the table, I'd say that the winner is GK in 5th edition.
Everyone buying 3 fucking Dreadknights because they were OP as shit was what told GW to start making every faction have "bigger is better" centerpiece models with stupid stats for 100+ bucks a piece. Which completely shifted the scale of 40k and put the final nail in the "skirmish game" coffin.
I'd put 5th Space Wolves in at 2nd, with how good Rune Priests and Grey Hunters were, they just had such a ridiculously strong core, with support units like Long Fangs that were still better than what codex marines had.
3rd is the current codex when cheesed out with a Gladius of a few different flavors. My two personal favorites are White Scars with 6 Tac squads in free Rhinos with Grav Cannons that can Scout forward, and Iron Hands with 4+ FNP Smashfucker tanking for a Command Squad on bikes with Grav guns, with the chance for a biker Librarian Conclave to tag along as well. Also honorable mention to an Ultramarines Skyhammer Annihilation Force which can just be dropped into any list if you've got the points.
>>44033714
In terms of fluff, DA are basically a legion still. They have the second highest amount of successor chapters and each one is very close to the parent chapter, especially the 99% under the unforgiven title.
If DA were to actually go traitorhurr durrthey would do the most amount of damage to the imperium compared to any other.
>>44040160
>Everyone buying 3 fucking Dreadknights because they were OP as shit
You clearly never played GKs.
Purifierwing with fliers was the strongest GK build. Dreadknights were good, but would fall to shooting too easily due to TEQ saves, and this was before GW started making mechs with outrageous statlines like the Wraithknight/Tau shit.
>>44040097
is that just non rubric marines or total
>>44033803
The novel Eternal Crusader says that they are about 1100 marines, give or take.
The Space Wolves are much larger.
>>44033714
Stormcast Eternals, since they can actually win important battles against Chaos without huge losses.
>>44040693
All the battles the Stormcast fought were riven with heavy causalities.
Can you not read?
>>44040444
Total Anon, start of the Heresy means pre-Rubric.
>>44034642
>No, the Ultramarines Chapters are completely independent
Isn't the Genesis chapter kept around to replace UM losses? I seem to remember they either have a homeworld at the edge of Ultramar or right outside it.
