Your civilization's conception is that matter is composed of four elements: Water, Air, Fire and Earth. This is incorrect.
Water is not an element: it is composed of a combination of compose of two parts element-1 and one part element-8
Air is also a composite of various elements, in the case of your world it is mostly composed of elements 7 and 8, along with a composite of two parts element-6 and one part element-8
Fire is not a substance but rather a process in which element-8 breaks down the bonds between other assemblages of elements and links with them, generating heat and light
'Earth' refers to a broad range of elements ranging from element-3 to element-92.
The blade you are carrying is primarily composed of element-26 with element-7 being the most common secondary element as well as trace amounts of various other elements.
>>44014841
But if the four elements aren't real, explain the elemental planes?
Elementals themselves?
Explain the Inner Planes, then.
How can the four elements be real if the material plane isn't real?
>>44014841
>to element-92.
If your elemental model reaches past 16, you've gone fucked up.
>>44014841
FUCKING TRIGGERED
>>44014841
>4 elements theory
>not superior western 5 elements
>forgetting æther
>shitty diggy doo
>>44014972
>not going for superior water-wood-earth-metal-fire
>>44014980
Get that weeaboo shit outta my face. Where's air in that, huh?
I'm not OP, I don't literally breathe hard wood.
>>44014841
Yes. The world is made up of numerous materials, with fascinating properties. The four elements do not literally make up every object.
However, metaphysically? Analysis has shown that an object's magical properties and arcane weight are both determined by its content of elemental energies. An object's metaphysical existence is composed of an admixture of these energies, which correlate broadly to the four elements that you deride.
That's the key you're missing. You're so focused on the idea that all physical matter must be made of different elements that it never occurred to you to think that arcane energy might be as well.
>>44015002
I fucking pissed myself laughing.
You win this round.
Might as well use the periodic table at that point.Which isn't necessarily a bad thing.
>only 4 elements
>not 7
>>44015104
thatsthejoke.jpg
>>44014972
Silly. Everyone knows the fifth element is love.
>>44015342
Close! The fifth element is heart.
There are 8 elements!
Heavens
Wind
Fire
Water
Moon
Mountains
Earth
Thunder
>>44015354
Wrong. The fifth element is shitposting
>>44015342
>>44015354
>>44015385
Fools. Everyone knows there's only three.
>Mind
>Body
>Spirit
>>44015385
I think you mean nine:
Death
Rage
Avarice
Fear
Will
Hope
Compassion
Love
Life
>>44015390
Golgothans are the fifth element? Oh dear.
Ahem. This being /tg/, there are obviously SIX elements.
Matter is composed of Sex, Drugs and Rock&Roll
>>44014841
>Air is also a composite of various elements, in the case of your world it is mostly composed of elements 7 and 8, along with a composite of two parts element-6 and one part element-8
>along with a composite of two parts element-6 (Carbon) and one part element-8 (Oxygen)
Did you mean one part Carbon and two parts Oxygen? (CO2)
>>44015002
10/10
>>44015499
thatsthejoke.png
>>44014980
>...sun-moon?
>>44015411
Nope. There's only six.
Air - Earth - Fire - Water - Order - Entropy
>>44015460
Actually the Chaos gods are the gods of teenage boys: anger, zits, horniness, and drugs
>>44015720
So that'd be Khorne, Nurgle, Slaanesh and... Slaanesh again?
I had a thought for a setting that's more or less a shitty Planescape ripoff based around Five Temperament Theory in combination with the five classical elements. There are five realms based around the temperament they represent with the classical element they represent mixed in to spice things up. The realms are also constantly feuding with one another because each wants to exclusively control the human spirit.
Sanguine: Air; The skies of this realm are dotted with various flying suns that go where they please and bring growth and joy to those that are blessed with their presence, but a painful cold death to those that they wander away from. Everything this realm is constantly seeking sunlight therefore any settlements are always either some form of floating airship or cities on the backs or even inside of massive flying creatures.
Melancholic: Water; At first this realm may appear to be nothing but tranquil waters and a thick mist as far as the eye can see. There are a few groups of sailor monks that travel in massive ships, seeking pilgrimage in an unending attempt to find land that isn't there. If you dive deep enough into the water you will find coral castles dotting the seafloor and a large network of underwater caves where many residents make their homes.
Should I continue?
>>44015808
Sounds pretty damn creative to me!
>>44014841
>>44014972
>>44014980
>>44015267
>>44015342
>>44015354
>>44015385
>>44015390
>>44015408
>>44015411
>>44015438
>>44015460
>>44015605
Shitters you're all wrong!
There's 15 elements:
>Normal
>Fire
>Water
>Grass
>Electric
>Ice
>Fighting
>Poison
>Ground
>Flying
>Psychic
>Bug
>Rock
>Ghost
>Dragon
>>44015844
I guess I'll finish up then?
Supine: Earth; From foothills to mountains that stretch to an infinite height this realm is home to a very rigid order of weaker creatures worshiping the strong. Many caves are home to various animal worshiping cultists who fight to the death over the slightest wrong doing to their deity of choice. The buildings in this realm are often carved from the mountains and any such cities built by the hands of one creature will always be made for a size of a larger creature as tributes.
Choleric: Fire; Choleric is the realm unending darwinism and change. Few cities manage to actually form from this fiery pit, but the stunning few cities that manage to survive are often as harsh and rewarding as their surroundings. Those who worship the choleric realm often do it for power alone.
Phlegmatic: Aether; The Phlegmatic realm on its own consists of very little, but many bits and pieces of other realms crossing over have allowed for the Phlegmatic to manage a personality of its own. Most of humanity lives here making Phlegmatic eternal, but unable to grow in power.
>>44015964
>Fire is just about DESTRUCTION and POWER AT A COST
>Not the giver of life and light
>Not the forge and the hearth
God, I'm sick of this.
>>44016186
Sorry, I forgot to chop out that last bit. Fire is choleric and color is change and power. Power is required in order for change to happen.
>>44016264
*choleric is change and power. Destruction is just a side effect of change.
>>44014841
Wrong, there are 27 elements arranged into a 3x3x3 grid, with the axis being static-dynamic-natural, physical-motive-aetherial, and progressive-stagnant-regressive!
The fact that I have only successfully categorized 18 of these hypothetical 27 has no bearing on the veracity of my model!
![9HKFuWQ[1].gif](https://i.imgur.com/aEDdvsw.gif "9HKFuWQ[1].gif")
>>44015958
Don't forget about me anon
Gravity
Electromagnetic
Strong
Weak
There are your four elements.
>>44014841
It's easier just to redefine "elements" as phases of matter.
>>44016601
That's basically how it is in my setting, the 4 phases of matter plus 3 for energy
Earth = Solids
Water = Liquids
Air = Gases
Fire = Plasma
Light = Positive Energy
Shadow = Negative Energy
Void = Potential Energy
>>44016315
Please expand this. It sounds awesome, and maybe we can help fill in the gaps.
>>44016315
...go on.
>>44016315
Cotinuatum.
>>44016846
Don't forget Bose-Einstein condensate!
>>44014972
>Not counting all the elements present in persian alchemy
>>44015033
10/10 stealing this explanation
>>44016846
If you're doing that, having negative energy is kinda crazy.
Unless you're meaning something more like entropy, which I could see.
In a way, this could also handle the elemental planes. Picture the planes as a stack of universes, going high-energy to low energy.
The plane of fire, for example, is an early universe in the photon epoch. Little exists but a hot, dense mass of plasma.
![339dc96cb3[1].png](https://i.imgur.com/3bBUMJL.png "339dc96cb3[1].png")
>>44017349
Whoops, forgot to come back to the thread.
Here's the current WIP grid.
>>44018539
I like it.
>>44018556
>>44018539
Pretty dope.
>>44018573
When I showed it off a while ago (on the order of months), some wonderful anon had the grand idea of making its incompleteness a part of the setting itself, as well as competing elemental structures.
It turns out that the wizards of the world, while getting some bits of science (but magical!) down, are too proud to admit that their carefully crafted theories and diagrams are incorrect, so they incessantly and constantly try to think of ways to complete them; kind of like if biologists made a beautiful and perfectly symmetrical taxonomy, and shoehorned species into ill-fitting slots just to preserve its structure.
As of now, only the most simple (and ultimately useless) of elemental models have been completed, and the wide variety of (hypothetical) models leads to a major source of ideological conflict between the world's mages.
>>44018539
Just gonna say this: if you're going to game this, you might actually want to leave a couple of these blank: Likely there, but still undiscovered.
>>44018665
Welp, nevermind. I see you're already there: >>44018621
I would have put Flesh in Progressive though. Actually Stagnant seems like the wrong term for everything in that column.
>>44014841
Each element is made of a platonic solid and there are only five platonic solids. How then are we asked to believe that there are more than five elements?
>>44018678
>Actually Stagnant seems like the wrong term for everything in that column.
Yeah, I'd call it Static, or something along those lines.
>>44018665
That's what I was going for, see >>44018621
Turns out, there's not much difference between Earth magic and Dust magic, and Stasis magic is pretty much just Time magic with a bit of Space magic;
Of course, the wizards who abide by this model (I'm still working on the setting on the whole) take great accusations to these claims and vehemently claim that no they actually are different. They have a particularly nasty conflict with a nearbye token exotic desert culture whose magi follow a rather interesting and religious based star-shaped structure where most of the Aetherial and Motive elements are combined, there is no sense of Progressive or Regressive, and they consider all the various types of metals and stones to be separate elements, how absurd!
>>44018692
>How then are we asked to believe that there are more than five elements?
the outlying elements combine traits of the platonic solids in differing quantities.
>>44018621
I quite like this idea.
>>44018712
Why not have a few spaces doubling up with elements, indicating a schism between the scholars about which element it truly represents.
>>44018678
>>44018701
Well, that axis was originally Positive-Neutral-Negative, but after refining it a bit it is what it is now, dealing rather with the "direction" those elements take.
Progressive moves towards a new, better state or form, Stagnant maintains the status quo either through stagnancy or cyles, and Regressive is towards previous, probably even worse states or forms.
>>44018733
>Progressive moves towards a new, better state or form, Stagnant maintains the status quo either through stagnancy or cyles, and Regressive is towards previous, probably even worse states or forms.
Would the Natural Motive in Progressive be Life then?
>>44018729
I'm fully planning on making not only various major models, but also minor models of those major models with elements flipped around, descriptors changed, or even entire elements removed, replaced, combined, or split.
I'm going to attempt to have at least 5-7 major models, all in various states of completion, with the minor models based on the culture and nation of the wizards themselves.
The western wizards of the foothills who live in a tower per hamlet? There are dozens of popular variations running around, and dozens more undocumented individual ones, and every single wizard claims that their's is the correct one.
The wizened monks of misty mountains have exactly 5 variations, and they actually consider this conflict to be a central tennet in their philosophy and elemental model itself.
>>44018776
Ah, but life is not necessarily progressive, and the progressive elements are either man-made (metal) or absolutely required for progress itself.
The wizards who subscribe to this model are pretty athropocentric on the whole, and don't ascribe much to nature.
>>44018777
The models should be influenced by the elements that culture had the most exposure to. Also the Monks variations give me the impression of a pentagon with 5 right angles
>>44018793
>The wizards who subscribe to this model are pretty anthropocentric on the whole, and don't ascribe much to nature.
Typical wizards, what next, are they gonna stick 'Magic' in to stoke their massive egos?
>>44018798
That's what I'm going for, as well as the general structure of the models (and the relative importance of certain elements) being affected by models as well.
In any case, the one constant across all major nations is that they are defacto ruled by these philosopher-wizards, and that these doctrinal conflicts between models are not only philosophical and scientific, but ideological and political; possibly even religious to a degree.
I'll be making a thread on /tg/ sometime soon during Christmas time (after finals are over), but I unfortunately don't have a lot of the setting fleshed out.
>>44018733
I just don't feel stagnant is the right word for it. Earth, Fire, Air, Vitae, Flesh, Soul? None of those feel 'stagnant'. Static would be better (although personally I don't feel fire or air or flesh/vitae fit that either).
I mean why is Force Progressive and Fire not? Both act as an agent of change. Why is Metal Progressive, and Earth not? Why is Time Progressive and Flesh not? Flesh isn't static.
>>44018814
That would diminish the importance of magic, obviously that's the basis from which all elements developed.
>>44018869
Like I said, the models are influenced by the wizard's culture:
Force is progressive because it is necessarily man-made (in the minds of the wizards), while fire can be natural, chaotic, and can destroy as much as it creates being neither a progressive or regressive element on the whole.
Metal is progressive because it is a more "pure" form of earth, and is ultimately more useful, while earth can become metal or crumble into dust.
Time is progressive because it must always move forward (despite the best efforts of wizards), and although it both facilitates progressive and regressive processes, its very nature of one-directionality makes it progressive.
Flesh may not be static/stagnant in the short term, but it is ultimately guided by cycles of birth, growth, waste, and death and is thus neither progressive nor regressive, and in fact these particular wizards consider disease itself to be an entirely separate element, being the agent that regresses flesh.
>>44014841
But can you explain how fucking magnets work?
I'm triggered
>>44019109
Magnets lust over iron and other metals. They either jump at them, or grab them with their phantom tentacles and bring towards themselves.
Checkmate!
>>44018539
Inertia or Friction for Stagnant-Motive-Static?
I think Fire should be Regressive, but it depends on your take on it.
Will-Soul-Mind is cute.
I was going to recommend Blood for Progressive-Physical-Natural, but you have it in Regressive-Motive-Natural. Maybe Wood?
>>44018692
I went with Metal-Earth-Wood-Water-Air for the five platonic solids in order. It works surprisingly well as an explanation of all matter. For example, the planet is the way it is because that order is most to least dense; Metal at the core, surrounded by earth. Water and Wood on top of earth (with some airy woods being less dense than water) and Air on top of those.
>Forgetting the alchemical tria prima of salt (water acting on earth), mercury (air acting on water), and sulfur (fire acting on air)
>>44019921
Doesn't that imply a fourth. Earth acting on Fire?
>>44019921
But what are the other interactions?
>>44019975
6, actually.
Fire acting on earth, fire acting on water, and air acting on earth.
>>44020022
Nah, it's a progression.
Have a crude MS paint sketch.
If you include Air->Earth and Fire->Water, you'd also need to add the reverse, and another reverse cycle.
>>44020131
>not doing this anyways
What are you, not autistic?
>>44020150
I'm not sure how that applies anyway, but wouldn't trying to make things more specific and complex be the more spergy thing to do?
I'm just pointing out that by his reasoning, the three primes should be four.
>>44014841
You're a piece of trash for conflating the uses of "Element" just because they share a name.
If I just started telling Astrologers that they're all wrong because Constellations aren't real and there's just stars that happen to appear a certain way. They'd laugh me out of the fucking room because that's immaterial to the premises of their fucking discussion you semantic piece of shit.
Someone calling the particular possible configurations of atoms "Elements" does nothing to negate or change the Aristotelian model. Just like the discovery of Quarks, Gluons, etc. does nothing to negate the discoveries of chemistry.
>>44020204
>but wouldn't trying to make things more specific and complex be the more spergy thing to do?
Exactly, which is why I asked him if he's not autistic.
>2015
>not spending your time on worthless casual mathematics and autistic graphs/models/systems
>>44020214
Except that Aristotle was full of shit, but chemistry is still true (perhaps even more true) because of those discoveries.
>>44020227
>>2015
>>not spending your time on worthless casual mathematics and autistic graphs/models/systems
Jokes on you, I just explained how you would make a rape factory in Exalted...with Punnet Squares!
>>44020264
Jokes on you! I just developed a script for a conlang based on non-intersecting graphs on a 3x3 grid of nodes! It has exactly 16 vowels and 32 consonants!
>>44020363
I can't top that.
>>44020244
Well of course, but now shitmouths like you have the license to go:
>See how dumb chemists were?
>They called these chemicals "Atoms" when in fact they're composed of smaller elementary particles!
>Which are in turn composed of smaller particles!
>Can you believe they called them ATOMS? HAHAHAHAHA
But you're too busy circlejerking over the fact that there's two sets of distinct things that share a name. And even though they exist in vastly different metaphysical or empirical realms, you have the gall to say that one is "wrong" because of the other, and that the latter somehow supplants the former, only because it shares a name.
You're right. Aristotle was observably pretty wrong but you're missing the point if you think that just because they use the same WORD their objective was to find or describe the same thing.
>>44020392
>implying atom still isn't a valid term of structure
>implying you're not just being pointlessly autistic
>>44014927
You know he's talking about the periodic table, right?
>>44020480
You're the one who's being pointlessly autistic by focusing on semantic similarity rather than accepting the difference between ideas that belie the names we give them you uneducated fuck.
>>44020567
>thinking this is about semantics
>implications actual elements don't fulfill the same purpose as philosophical elements, but the latter are just wrong
A U T I S M
>elements
>this whole thread
A
U
T
I
S
M
Gimme the acronym, fa/tg/guys.
>>44015002
>weeaboo
>even though the five Japanese elements are literally the same as the Greek five
>he think Chinks and Japs are the same thing
>>44021396
Always
Unique
Totally
Interesting
Sometimes
Mysterious
>>44020363
I think I saw that post...
Was it on Reddit or the conlang listserv?
>>44021968
Nope, I haven't posted it anywhere yet; it's just a fun little project in my off time.
>>44020227
Oh right, I see, I missed the not.
>>44021396
Autism on 4chan means that you care about something to take an interest in it beyond superficial surface details
>>44015002
oh lawd that was savage. 11/10
Anyone else prefer the separation of elements and energies?
elements: earth, water, air, sometimes flesh and wood
energies: fire, rime, lightning, sometimes order and chaos
Thoughts?
>>44014972
>>44015342
>>44015354
>>44015390
You're all wrong, the Fifth Element is Surprise.
>>44023668
Does that man have an extra joint in each of his legs?
