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I need a crash course on the setting from it's start to about 500 years after the Great Contagion.

Specifically, I need information on Dragon-Blooded Exalts. How they think, how they look, what are the differences between aspects, etc.

Where would you put a working to get essence sight/All-Encompassing Sorcerer’s Sight? Celestial 2?

>>44007809
I like liminals conceptually, can't really say much more as there's fuck all info on them

>>44008466

Celestial, Ambition 2. It's a supernatural power.

>>44007895
Primordial War.
VICTORY
LOYAL
LOYAL
Loyal
loyal
loyal?
loyal?!
ANGRY
ANGRY
COCKY
PETTY WARS
OH SHIT
FUCK NO
FUCK YES
WHIPPED BY BIG RED
LOYAL
LOYAL
Loyal
Loyal?
Today.

>>44008557
that's a problem I have with the working examples we have, supernatural power can mean SO much. Permanent version of an instant duration Solar charm like sorcerous sight? Celestial 2. Breath fire, aka a shitty merit that comes with a sorcerous initiation? Also Celestial 2.

>>44008601
Presumably, shoot death-rays from your hands would be celestial 2, too.

>>44008468
Yeah, there's speculation that they're supposed to be like one of them WoD splats and that's supposed to be bad, but I don't really fall in with that doomsaying because most existing exalt types were at one time based on WoD splats, and because I know fuck all about the splat they're supposedly going to be a hack ripoff of.

The official material I've seen suggests something like the more nuanced versions of Frankenstein's monster. I'm cool with that.

>>44008601

Seeing the underlying Essence of Reality? Celestial 2. That's one of the main failings of Ex3. The give you so much room, opportunity, and encouragement to homebrew things, and then doesn't give you any guidelines. Not much in the way of Evocations at the moment now, so that nips quite a few things in the bud doesn't it?

>>44007895
Okay. The Dragonblooded began as a collection of mortals blessed by the Elemental Dragons, the children of the Primordial Gaia. They were imbued with destructive elemental powers, and more over unlike the Celestial Exalts had the ability to pass on their Exaltations to their offspring. Typically their Exaltation awakens in their early to late teens, though whether it does or doesn't depends on the purity of their parents' bloodline.

With the ability to pass on their Exaltations to their children, the Terrestrial Host numbered in the millions. They formed the foot-soldiers of the Primordial War, lead into battle by the Celestials.

After the Primordial War, they faithfully served the Celestials, forming extended clans called Gentes, which swear their loyalty to a single Celestial. Often, many generations of Dragonblooded would serve a Celestial, because while a Dragonblood's life is in the Centuries, Celestials can live for millenia. The Dragonblooded served as lieutenants, officers, elite soldiers, special investigators, high officials, and so forth.

During this period, the Dragonblooded also began interbreeding with mortals. Previously, any Dragonblooded who did so was punished by death, but that edict became impossible to enforce as the Exalted expanded. Thus, the policy was ended, and while it didn't affect the vastness of the Terrestrial Host, it meant that two Dragonblooded parents were no longer guaranteed that all their children would be Dragonblooded as well, and that the bastard by-blows of the Terrestrials (or their descendants) might become Dragonblooded.

>>44008581
Surprisingly accurate.

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>>44007895
>I need a crash course on the setting from it's start to about 500 years after the Great Contagion.

You're not asking for why I think you're asking, are you?

Hint: It involves a certain campaign on a certain site about Creation trying to repopulate, and the fact Terrestrial children can inherit the Exaltation.

>>44009192
Eventually, however, the Great Curse that the slain Primordials inflicted upon the Exalted Host took root. The Solars, who were the top dogs and the leaders of the rest of the Exalted, were the most heavily affected and began to go mad. Alternatively, the Terrestrials, who were the weakest and the most numerous, were the least affected.

The Sidereals, still unaware of the Curse but able to see the growing madness of the Solars, eventually concluded that if nothing were done Creation would be doomed. After much debate and assassination, the Sidereals decided that the safest course of action was to have the Terrestrials overthrow the Solars. Thus began the Usurpation.

Every year, during Calibration, the Celestials gathered together for a great feast in Mount Meru. Thus, with the help of the Sidereals, the numberless Dragonblooded crushed their former masters. The Terrestrials then established a Shogunate, with their Gens acting as Creation's new nobility. The Sidereals erased themselves from history (and manipulated the Dragonblooded Shogunate from behind the scenes), while the Dragonblooded themselves acted as the stewards of Creation and rewrote history to paint the Solars and Lunars as demons thrown down by the righteous Terrestrials. They may not be entirely wrong about this, given the amount of atrocities that the Solars committed in the throes of the curse.

So, the Dragonblooded ruled Creation, with the Sidereals working in Heaven behind the scenes, and hunted down any Solar or Lunar that dared to re-emerge. They were unable to either maintain or control the magical wonders that were made during Solar rule, but they made do with technological solutions instead. For example, instead of a magic crystal in the deserts that makes all the water you want, they would do things like make a giant drilling machine to tap underground springs.

So Creation continued, diminished somewhat but now safe, up until the Great Contagion.

>>44009409
When the Contagion struck, nine out of ten of EVERYTHING LIVING sickened and died. That included ordinary mortals, and that included the Terrestrials as well. And just when the Contagion began to recede, the Fae invaded and the Wyld consumed vast swathes of now unoccupied Creation.

So the world was considered more or less doomed, with the surviving mortals and Exalts fighting tooth and nail to survive, up until a single squad of Dragonblooded soldiers managed to find their way into the Sword of Creation, an ancient weapon of mass destruction left behind by the Solars.

Only one of the squad survived to take control of it, and with it she wiped out the invading Raksha and used the Sword's power to project her image all over Creation, declaring herself the undisputed Empress of the Realm. In this, she was (reluctantly) backed by the Sidereals.

This was, of course, disputed. The Scarlet Empress was able to take complete control of the Blessed Isle, and established a new Empire there, but those in the Threshold either disputed her rule (which included a surviving Legion from the Shogunate's military in Lookshy) or simply ignored it, too busy trying to rebuild after the Great Contagion.

By this point, Creation was blasted back into the bronze age. Forget what the Solars left behind, even the Shogunate's stuff was rare and hard to repair or maintain. The Realm and Lookshy were able to maintain some of these wonders (including weapons of mass destruction) but for the average citizen life reverted to a much more primitive existence.

After the foundation of the Scarlet Empire, the Empress's Dragonblooded children established the Great Houses, which bore /some/ resemblance to the now defunct Gentes during the Shogunate.

For about eight centuries the Blessed Isle remained Creation's pre-eminent super-power, with roughly ten thousand Dragonblooded on the Isle alone.

So uh, need anything else?

>>44009629

Speaking of the Contagion, was it ever given stats, or was it more of a plot device? What are some powerful diseases that did get stats?

Two Questions

So the pole of Earth is the axis of Creation, does that imply Creation rotates?

All the writing amkes out how awesome and grand the First Age was and how it was the Solar Exalted that made it so awesome. The fuck were the other whole 3 types of Exalted doing, sitting around with their thumb up their asses? It's ridiculous to think only one kind of Exalt was responsible for the greatest age Creation has ever known.

>>44009741
Plot device. As for other diseases I think there was one that made your skeleton rip out of your body and act on it's own?

You know, I'm completely fine with power tiers — they're unavoidable either way, and it would make sense to acknowledge that from the start — as long as specific splats have their own niches in which they shine with no contenders to their excellence, but it's 3E and OP yet again decided to go in the ultrasmurf direction. Is the player base really fine with that?

>>44009818
The Creation doesn't rotate, or if it doesn't it doesn't matter to anything. It is an "island" of "reality" "floating" in the Wyld. The pole of Earth isn't really an axis, its just the center of the Creation.

First Age was awesome not because Solars did everything, but because Things Were As They Should Be, with every Exalt type doing their Thing. Solars being the top dogs, Lunars being mighty, Sidereals giving assistance and counsel to both and the Terrestials taking care of the more down to earth things.

>>44009930
Well, 3e is meant to be with everyone being much closer to each other when it comes to power level than the previous editions. If by ultrasmurfs you mean Solars being top dogs, changing that would mean having to rewrite the whole setting, more or less. I'm personally more fine with there being different tiers of power, since it makes sense in-setting.

>>44009818

>So the pole of Earth is the axis of Creation, does that imply Creation rotates?

Axis can mean "a fixed reference line for the measurement of coordinates." Considering that it's the literal center of Creation, that definition seems more fitting.

Sidereals were no doubt running Fate and filing paperwork. Lunars were likely tending to their Solar mates, and the DBs were probably all sitting around with their thumbs up their asses.

>>44009922

Puppeteer's Plague, that's in the core book. I'm asking because I'm looking for ideas my my Sorcerer in order to create my own (or port to Ex3) plague in case I need to covertly wipe out a large amount of people.

>>44009629
Oh right, I forgot to talk about the Dragonblooded in detail.

All right, so there are roughly ten thousand Dragonblooded who form the elite of the Realm, based in the Blessed Isle. They are the Dynasts, made up of descendants of the Empress or outcaste Dragonblooded who were adopted into the Great Houses. The main religion of the Realm, the Immaculate Order, believes that life is an endless series of reincarnation before eventually merging with the Essence of the Elemental Dragons. They claim that the Dragonblooded are beings who are on the cusp of such enlightenment, and basically act as the shepherds and rulers of mankind.

Some Dragonblooded take their duties seriously, and act as Examplars and benevolent rulers of ordinary humans. They are rare. In practice, most Dynasts simply see the Immaculate Order as carte blanche to do as they please because they are of course both mightier and wiser than mere mortals, and its become the norm to embrace power without accepting any of the responsibility that is meant to come with it. A mortal peasant who gets on a Dynast's bad side has no recourse, whatsoever. They're fucked.

There are also roughly ten thousand Dragonblooded /outside/ the Realm, who are referred to as Outcastes. Exiles from the Realm, illegitimate descendants of the Dragonblooded, bloodlines that had enough Terrestrial blood in them to obtain power and influence away from the Realm, and so on. How they think in general depends on their stance on the Immaculate Order and the Realm. Outcastes who disregard the Order's teachings see no reason to hold themselves as aloof or superior to mortals, and some make a very good living for themselves as mercenaries, advisors, master-craftsmen, and so on.

>>44009818
> does that imply Creation rotates?
No. Long story short, the Creation is an island of objective (more or less) reality in the ocean of pure fantasy, it can grow and shrink, but it cannot move; however, it's entirely possible (for Solars, at least) to carve out your own piece of stability in the Wyld, for what it's worth.
> The fuck were the other whole 3 types of Exalted doing, sitting around with their thumb up their asses?
Pretty much. No, really, the whole setting is so Solar-centric it's not even funny. When it comes to fluff, it's always about Solars, and even when they aren't primary actors, they still have the world revolve around them just because. Essentially, while Solars have everything to do with the whole of Creation, other splats are concerned primarily or only with their own goings-on. Character meta-shilling is nothing new for WW/OP.

>>44009930
I just want a game that's mechanically concise and entertaining.

As for powaer tiers and niches, I can fellate whatever kind of Exalts I want in my games.

>>44009999
DBs were handling lower affairs. Serving as soldiers, cleaning up after Solar fuckery causes trouble, being the Gods to the Solars Primordials.

>>44010017
I like the ten thousand Dynasts, I hate that there are about an equal amount everywhere else in all of Creation. That's dumb as shit, Creation is huge.

>>44010023
>Pretty much. No, really, the whole setting is so Solar-centric it's not even funny. When it comes to fluff, it's always about Solars, and even when they aren't primary actors, they still have the world revolve around them just because. Essentially, while Solars have everything to do with the whole of Creation, other splats are concerned primarily or only with their own goings-on. Character meta-shilling is nothing new for WW/OP.

Wouldn't it be more awesome that the Celestial Exalted, led by the Solars, made the wonderous First Age and it all went to shit when Solars started turning on one another and going mad from the curse, and after the Usurpation the works of the Sidereals dissappeared as they erased themselves, the Lunars maddenned by loss either fled, leaving their wonder, or delibertely destroyed their own works, and the works of the Solars broke apart when they were sealed away?

>>44010126
Thinking Darwinially, there is no reason why the Dynasts haven't flooded Creation and pushed out baseline humanity as the most numerous "species" other than Solar wankery, and Solars weren't even there for more than a millenium. There should be literally millions of DBs everywhere and in everyone's face.

>>44010017
In terms of how they look, it depends on the strength of their blood, their age, and their Essence.

Most Dragonblooded look like humans. Prettier, stronger, and faster humans that can hurl lightning or breath underwater, but they at least look normal overall. However, if their breeding is strong and/or their age and Essence increases, they can take on features that resemble their Elemntal Aspect.

For example, an Earth Aspect may end up with skin like marble, with cracks and fissures instead of wrinkles. An air aspect may be exceptionally cold to the touch with pale skin, or have their hair ripple constantly as though it's blown by wind. A Wood aspect may have flowers growing out of his or her hair, or have greenish skin, and so on and so on.

There are five Dragonblooded aspects: Fire, Air, Water, Earth, and Wood, corresponding to the five Elemental Dragons. There's different cliches and stereotypes associated with each aspect, but of course they hardly apply to everyone. But as far as the stereotypes go, Air Aspects are intellectuals and thinkers, Fire Aspects are hot-blooded and flashy, Earth Aspects are stoic traditionalists, Water Aspects are mercurial and patient, and Wood Aspects are friendly and hedonistic.

>>44010231
What's your point?

>>44010251
Their bloodlines are no longer pure, Exaltation is no longer a guarantee, and it still depends on whether the child has the 'right stuff' in terms of personality to Exalt.

The niche of the DBs was always 'There Are More of Us Than You.'
If it's 5 DBs vs 5 Solars, the DBs should always lose.

>>44010275
Solars shouldn't be the source of magic and wonder they're made out to be. Their fall was the cataylst for many events that brought about the downfall, which all the Celestial Exalted are responsible for.

>>44010299
> Their bloodlines are no longer pure
There were actually still Breeding 6 DBs around during the Shogunate's latter days, and even still then, pure bloodlines should outperform impure ones over time, so the issue stands.
>>44010326
> the Solars are the biggest fuck-ups
> responsibility for that falls on everyone

>>44010377
> the Solars are the biggest fuck-ups
It's not depicted in this way, it's depicted in a "all this wonder hinges on Solar power alone and without them shit falls apart." That's fucking boring and dick sucky.

>>44010306
Except that doesn't apply to PC dynamics. When playing as a DB among Celestials, you will suck, period. That's not a bad thing by itself, but not many play styles lend themselves well to having some party members not being able to pull their own weight. A proper mechanic for playing several DB characters at once would fix the issue, but such a mechanic will never be implemented in a non-broken way, so the issue stands.

>>44010529
> It's not depicted in this way
Their dickery is pretty much the sole reason for things turning out as they did. But I concur with your point.

>>44010529
Wrong. All wonder does not hinge on Solar power, every Exalt is capable of creating artifacts. Its simply that the heights of the first age were achieved on the back of Solar artifice and sorcery.

>>44010231
This is stupid and is not awesome.

>>44010023
Yeah, Solars are really important to the setting. Its one of the main setting conceits. Maybe you just don't like Exalted?

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>>44010947
> Maybe you just don't like Exalted?
Wow, just wow. Fuck you and yours, you oblivious, entitled cunt.

>>44011052
Aww, baby's feelings got hurt. Come back when you're over 18, faggot.

>>44010947
Solars should be important to the core setting. However If I want to play a Lunar or Sidereal, I don't need to know how much Solar dick I need to suck.

Solars are depicted in the fluff as the sole beings respoinsible for everything amazing. It's they who made the wonder and bound the magic. When they dissappeared everthing went to shit because they weren't there to maintain it.

Although mechanically they can do things just fine It's never a Sidereal's artifice or Lunar sorcerer's magic that went awry, always the Solars shit. No Lunar did anything of note in the First Age except get assfucked by Solars apparently.

Fuck that.

>>44011110
Nah that anon is right, you're being an over-entitled cunt.

The name of the game is Exalted, not Solars.

>>44010326
This doesn't even make any sense. If the First Age did not rely on the Solars why was the usurpation a big deal and how would the first age cease with them gone? Why does anyone care that they're back?

If you're going to re-imagine a setting where the Solars are not important, you might as well rewrite the whole thing because its written from that premise.

>>44011152
>If you're going to re-imagine a setting where the Solars are not important, you might as well rewrite the whole thing because its written from that premise.
Or, y'know, play a game set in Autobot. I hear it's a neat place with basically no Solars.

>>44009629
>And just when the Contagion began to recede, the Fae invaded and the Wyld consumed vast swathes of now unoccupied Creation.
I'm fairly certain the Contagion began to recede BECAUSE the Fae invaded and the Wyld spread

>>44009818
Sidereals made sure Fate was running smoothly and kept Heaven and Creation in sync.

Dragonblooded were the subordinates who carried out the Solar plan.

Lunars looked pretty.

>>44011152
It's the catalyst, it sparks the fall. Solars were still the leaders even if they wouldn't be personally responsible for all the wonders. Shit gets destroyed as Solars that survived the ambush used terrible weapons and powers before being cut down, and the Celestial Exalted who maintained the wonders of the First Age, splintered and broke. The Solars were fucking wiped out, the Sidereals dissappeared erased from history, and the Lunars were caught up in it all fleeing and destroying like an injured beast in the throes of pain. The Usurpation was not a clean coup, and the Celestial Exalted had dissappeared from their seats of power, with the Terrestrials risen up in their place.

>>44011111
What happened in the First Age is deliberately vague. I'm sure the Lunars did important things, but presumably the big solar circle workings that kept the infrastructure of the first age running needed maintenance - and hey, the Lunars were also driven out of the Realm during the usurpation.

>>44010231
>Wouldn't it be more awesome
No.

>>44011312
Suck more golden dick.

>>44010539
>Except that doesn't apply to PC dynamics.
Why wouldn't it?

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>>44011338
Continue, my Glorious Solar Bath isn't full yet.

>>44011278
> What happened in the First Age is deliberately vague.
There was a whole supplement dealing with the First Age, and if anything, the shilling was even more ridiculous.

>>44011277
Even in your re imagining the Lunars come across as whiny babies who "get caught up in it all."

Like, if you want to make the Lunars more important why are they still doing nothing when the usurpation is still the Sidereal's idea, the Terrestrials carried it out, and the Solars are the main antagonists?

>>44011434
Dotfa was garbage for MANY reasons and i certainly wouldn't use anything from it except for that hot as hell DB slut-babe

>>44011463
Nevertheless, it remains canon (dunnit?). Solars always stole the spotlight from everyone else. I wouldn't even mind if the game didn't market itself having, you know, several splats to play as.

>>44011438
They were caught up in it because the Usurpation was a shock, especially to the people it being done to.

It was Red Wedding x700

Once it started happening, Lunars did shit, terrifying shit, but ultimately they had to flee or they died as well.

>>44011510
It does not remain canon. The devs have said as much.

In 3e, the Lunars made a mini-Loom of Fate and are winning a major war against the Realm & Sidereals in The Caul. I'd say 3e, so far, is doing more to make the Lunars feel important and not tacked on

>>44011573
Nevertheless, the Lunars sat on their arses for a millennium and a half instead of proactively doing anything useful, like breaking the Jade Prison or fucking up the Shogunate once it formed and the Sidereals were no longer micromanaging everything. For all the talk, it's still "the furries sat still until the Solars came".

>>44011631
Its the DBs + Sidereals vs the Lunars when the former has all the resources of Creation and the Lunars are fractured and spread out all over the place.

>>44011631
>useful, like breaking the Jade Prison
>breaking the Jade Prison
>useful

Lunar fans, everybody.

>>44011111

Again, central theme of the setting.

You don't need to force yourself to like Exalted man

>>44011778
No, that's an electrum cocksleeve.
Useful is keeping creation's borders sorta functional and working on society model that don't have the fatal flaw of the Realm.

>>44011814
The central theme of the setting is mythic fantasy, playing powerful demigods in a broken magical world. Also fucking wuxia.

Faggots like you think that means it revolves around Solar cock.

I love Exalted, I hate Solar wankery.

>>44011778
I'm not even a furfag and I'm still bitter over how they spent fifteen fucking hundred years in anal masturbation. It took Golden Bull less than a decade to gather a mighty enough force to contest the balance of power for the Realm to get its panties in a bunch and hit it with major force, while the Lunars, many of whom are thousands of years old, were as a group playing shaman chiefs for a few tribes in the collective middle of fucking nowhere. Get it straight, one mildly experienced Solar > a whole slew of legendary furries.
>>44011747
> the Lunars are fractured and spread out all over the place
They had fifteen fucking centuries to pull their act together, and then they're supposed to be able to build kingdoms by their individual power alone.

>>44011536
Really? Like what? You can say all you want that the Lunars killed a million billion people during the usurpation or whatever, but the fact is they remain inconsequential.

Solars - get overthrown in a titanic bloodbath and get sent to forever jail because the Sidereals are terrified of them breaking free

Sidereals- Orchestrate the whole thing, make the Jade Prison, escape responsibility by breaking the Mask

Terrestrials - Kill the Solars, become the new masters of Creation

Lunars - Get traumatized and flee to the ends of earth. Also do vague but terrifying things that accomplish nothing.

>>44011463
>that hot as hell DB slut-babe
Elaborate

>>44011923
Hell just say that the Lunars are too damn good and do what the Solars could not and defeat the terrestrials. Now they are the masters of Creation and "solar wankery" is finally dead

Lunars aren't Exalted to rule creation.
Nor is their exaltation designed for super group bonding.
Solars and Terrestrials, by nature of what they are deal better with large civilizations.
Lunars are great champions, leaders of small to medium independent units, and generally adaptable. It's what they do.
Sidereals are similar. They are behind the scenes and manipulate situations like cosmic rube Goldberg devices. They can rule directly, but are never going to be the up front champions that Solars and Lunars are. They thrive in systems.

Lunars are hammers.
They can drive a screw in, but are sorta fucked when attempting to twist a bolt.

Each exalt type has some flexibility, but none are omni-utile.

>>44011885

At least in Ex3 they managed to claim the Caul. The gives them a significant victory over the Realm and gives them a proper base of operations other than Somewhere In The Wyld.

>>44011871
>Faggots like you think that means it revolves around Solar cock
No, the devs are who think that. If they didn't think that and want it to be so central, they would not have written lore that makes Solars so important to everything.

>>44011923
Solars: be great but not good, forcing the world to throw their evil asses down.
Sidereals: mastermind the great revolution against the mad monsters and seal their power.
Terrestrials: serve as minions and shock troops in the Sidereal plan. Fail to hold creation together afterwards.
Lunars: avoid the apocalyptic battle and keep the shattered piece of the broken world from collapsing into chaos. If it isn't under realm hegemony, it only exists because a Lunar super hero saved it.

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>>44011944
Enjoy.

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>>44011111
It's just one of those things you need to get used to. It's a low, low standard, and it's clear that most of the writers have never really worked as part of a team of professionals, so they don't understand how and why "lesser" Exalts would contribute immensely to the setting.

Sure, every Exalt type has slightly different magics, but that certainly doesn't mean Lunars and Sidereals never did anything that has lasting effects.

Unfortunately, you need to find an Exalted ST who is good at wandering off the beaten path and allowing that other Exalts could have contributed a lot to the setting.

>>44012032
As I said, Bull of the North had accomplished a similar feature all by himself in less than a decade after his exaltation. Am I seriously supposed to take seriously excuses for omnipotent Sidereals when they can't deal with just the one troublemaker?

>>44012108
I'm doing just that, but it's still annoying as hell.

>>44012105
Be careful though. Once she got her way she went Yandere so hard it created the largest shadowland in the north.

Marama's Fell.

>>44009930

But that's the whole point. The point of Exalted is that the Solars are unarguably the best.

If they weren't, what's the point of them? The Dragonblooded are more numerous. The Sidereals are ninja wizards who can see the future. If they were equal to the Solars, why would the loss of the Solars be a bad thing?

Besides, you're supposed to PLAY as the Solars. It's like complaining about Sorcerers being weak in Mage, when you're supposed to play a Mage. (Or Hunter: The Reckoning's Bystanders being pathetic.)

>>44011997
>It's what they do.
They are fucking human beings, and if ordinary people can come into positions of power and not fuck up, then so can superhumanly competent champions of gods, whether they are "supposed" to be doing that or not. You're defying logic for narrativity.

>>44011463

You wouldn't even use the water park?

DESU I enjoyed the IC'ly written guidebook to Meru more, but I'm a sucker for IC written splats

>>44012093
Why would the Lunars need to do that or how would they be able to? The Dragon-Blooded are terrifying post-usurpation. They number in the hundreds of thousands and control what remains of the artifice of the First Age. There were just a lot more people alive pre-contagion which doesn't leave a lot of room for a hunted group of 400 superheroes to do much more than fight for survival

>>44012156
> The point of Exalted is that the Solars are unarguably the best.
That emphatically is not what got me interested in the setting. I never decided, nor do I think that there are people who did, to get into the game because it has this one splat which is the best because lead designer said so.
> If they weren't, what's the point of them?
You do realise that when they aren't pushed as simply the best, their niche is versatility? I like Solars who are versatile, I don't like them when they are fucking omnipotent.
> you're supposed to PLAY as the Solars
Then why the fuck are other splats pushed as at all playable? No, I am asking in complete seriousness, do answer me this question.

>>44010529

I'm personally wondering how bad the Great Curse is, really. You only go berserk for one scene, right? How devastating is that? I mean, if my Solar Exalted suddenly decides he's Mahatama Gandhi for a few hours, it's not like he could do a lot of damage.

And one guy (Brightsword) simply finds somewhere to sulk. I just don't see the harm.

>>44012242
Solars are the default splat but not the only option. You're given numerous reasons to play the others in the corebook - its because they tell more focused stories that are different from the Solars.

PLAY ONE OF THE LUNAR EXALTED IF YOU WANT
• to be a master shapeshifter, wearing a thousand stolen forms.
• to be the inheritor of an ancient vendetta, empowered by rage to be nearly unstoppable.
• to walk the length and breadth of Creation with a freedom few others can claim.
• to be treated as a living god by barbarian tribes.


None of the reasons to play a Lunar or Sidereal require them to be stronger than a Solar. Their stories are different.

>>44012242

You can play as Ghosts, and you can play as heroic mortals. But the setting is designed with you playing as the Solar Exalted. It's simply how the game is designed.

It's like - "Sure, I guess you could play as a farmer in D&D. The game's not really built for that, though."

>>44012156
>The point of Exalted is that the Solars are unarguably the best.
That's incredibly fucking boring if you want to play something that isn't a Solar (because then YOU get to be the best) or a Terrestrial (who are designed to be the closest thing to an Underdog splat while still being an Exalted). Why are Lunars, Sidereals, et al. playable if that's "the point of Exalted"?

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>>44012128
I shrug. It's really not that hard. In fact, virtually none of the NPCs the player circle encounters should be "unimportant" or "ineffective," unless that's their plot point.

A Lunar sorcerer a couple hundred years old has probably done some pretty impressive shit. Whether she wants to talk to your circle about it is a different problem.

A veteran Sidereal has paperwork attesting that they've seen some shit. Chances are they've done things with lasting impact as well, but people forgot.

Dragonblooded as the maintainers of a collapsing realm is the only part of the whole thing that makes sense, because if the DBs are doing fine, it means the Celestials were never necessary to begin with.

Beyond that, however, it's mostly bullshit. Lunars should be influencing virtually every successful Threshold kingdom, seen or unseen.

Sidereals should be running angles around virtually every major event going on in Creation, particularly if its astrologically ordained.

Abyssals be Abyssals, doing that oblivion.

>>44011463

I don't think DotFA is actually playable. Like, what would a Circle of Solars actually DO?

>>44012313
>None of the reasons to play a Lunar or Sidereal require them to be stronger than a Solar. Their stories are different.
False equivalence.

None of their stories require them to be weaker than Solars either. Their stories are, after all, different.

>>44012105

I have never seen a woman who needed a good, hard dicking more. I'm pretty sure my Eclipse caste could do it.

>>44012383
Sure, so there is no harm in the appeal of the Solars being:

• to be mightiest among the Chosen.

Because it takes away nothing from the Lunars or Sidereals

>>44012330
>But the setting is designed with you playing as the Solar Exalted. It's simply how the game is designed.
Not when they put out entire books about playing as not the Solar Exalted.

Hell, isn't the very first 3e supplement about playing as a DB?

>>44012330
Not at all what it's like, friend
Not at all

Solars are the default splat, yes. Dragon-Blooded were the original default splat idea back in 1e, but they changed it to Solars before they released.
They have ALWAYS intended all the other exalt-types to be playable. The game is ENTIRELY built for that.

>"Sure, I guess you could play as a farmer in D&D. The game's not really built for that, though."
The only thing that fits in Exalted is mortals. Not even Heroic Mortals, with how you're saying it, just mortals. Only a mortal is a farmer and nothing else.
A heroic mortal is a farmer who rises up against the local lord because they've grown tired of the conditions they're forced to live in.

>>44012313
>You're given numerous reasons to play the others in the corebook
No, you fuck, you said that I am supposed to play as the Solars, basing on this your entire argumentation. If I can play as someone else, why the fuck are those options not accommodated for?
> they tell more focused stories that are different from the Solars
You mean it's anal masturbation for the little fish. Please.
>>44012330
All right, so everyone but the Solars are the farmer in DnD. It proves my point so perfectly I have nothing else to add.

>>44012426

You have to see it from a narrative perspective.

Solars: Protagonists.
Lunars: Love interest, rival.
Sidereal: Exposition man, mentor, mysterious priestess who is secondary love interest.
Abyssals: Dark rivals.
Infernals: Rivals, but demon-themed.
Dragonblooded: Mooks.

>>44012451
I didn't argue that. You're replying to someone else.

My argument is that the Solars being the strongest does not detract from the appeal of playing the other Exalted in the slightest. I mean, you still want to play a Lunar or whatever right? Its because their themes appeal to you

Solars being the best is part of their theme.

>>44012162
Ordinary people don't come to positions of power that matter in Exalted. Also, what ordinary person has ruled a nation as massive as the realm for a century? Without fucking up?

>>44012199
The post usurpation Shogunate Failed. They fucked their mandate away with their lack of ability. The current Realm is a pathetic patchwork abomination barely managing to lurch forward fast enough to keep it from utterly decaying. Yes, they sit on the ruins of wonders they barely comprehend. A monkey may use a gun, that doesn't mean it is an electrical engineer.

>>44012465
And that narrative falls apart the moment you play a siderial chronicle because guess who teh protagonists of the story are then?

Siderials.

And if you play a mixed campaign? Congrats: you're forced into a narrative shoehorn harder than Apocalypse World.

>>44012451
>If I can play as someone else, why the fuck are those options not accommodated for?
Because the corebook is already huge as fuck, and it isn't even OFFICIALLY released yet.
>All right, so everyone but the Solars are the farmer in DnD. It proves my point so perfectly I have nothing else to add.
Ignore that fuckwad, he's just trolling

>>44012383
>None of their stories require them to be weaker than Solars either. Their stories are, after all, different.
There's a difference between "Solar stories are about being the strongest" and "Solars are so much better than everyone else that the setting collapses into irredeemable shit without them, and only has a hope of getting better once they're back to fix everything again". Solars are deprotagonizing as fuck.

Speaking of which:

>>44012465
This doesn't fucking work, though. Whichever splat the players are playing as is the protagonist. The setting can't be written such that Solars are always the protagonists, and then put out entire books about not playing Solars.

>>44012537
"Deprotagonize" is codeword for "I don't like that Solars are the strongest as a setting premise"

>>44012537
You're thinking about it from the wrong perspective . Why is a return to the First Age desirable? So what if it required the Solars to work, there is no reason why the player characters of (insert splat here) can't create a new age that is better than the current one.

>>44012628

To be completely fair, it's hard to beat the First Age. I mean, the First Age was great.

>>44012491
> My argument is that the Solars being the strongest does not detract from the appeal of playing the other Exalted in the slightest.
My problem with the Solars is that they steal the spotlight. It's not that they are the strongest, it's that they are the most relevant.
>>44012500
> Ordinary people don't come to positions of power that matter in Exalted.
Are you autismal? Do you have diagnosed problems with following lines of conversation?
>>44012528
I was talking narratively, not mechanically.

>>44012665
Who cares about that? Lets say the Lunars become the dominate Exalt after the Age of Sorrows. They raise their own society that is better than the Realm and will never have the magic of the First Age but what they create is uniquely their own.

Whats more heroic than to say to the Solars, "Fuck your magic and fuck you, we don't need you" Its more interesting if you're rejecting the seductive promise of unmatched Solar artifice and sorcery

Despite being the strongest they, uh, LOST to the least Exalt in the usurpation.

>>44012665
> feudalism with refrigerators
Yeah, no.

>>44012465
This would be fine if things hadn't been so different for so long.

>>44012785

See, the problem with feudalism is that it's usually bullshit. The guy put on the throne is often a shithead.

But here, natural selection means that only the most heroic hero Everyman is picked for the role. He's obviously the guy who's the most qualified for the job! Remember, the Solar Exaltation is generally meritocratic; It just latches onto a worthy hero who's about to do something suitably epic.

More, your god-king can lift and throw tanks, and has a face that could launch a million ships. That's someone worth living under.

>>44012589
I think you might be retarded.

>>44012773
I'd say the Sidereals, Dragon-Blooded, and Abyssals are equally as relevant. Its really just the Lunars who get shafted.

The Sidereals manipulate everyone, run fate, are responsible for nearly everything that has happened. They have Chejop Ketchup and Rakan Thulio.

The Dragon-Blood are supremely important to running just about any game of Exalted, I don't think anything else needs to be said.

The Abyssals want to KILL EVERYTHING and are backed by the Underworld and the Deathlords.

Hopefully, 3e Lunars will be equally important, BUT THAT REMAINS TO BE SEEN

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Something that always bugged me - where does the Earth Dragon live?

The other four Elemental Dragons are all mentioned moving around the poles at the very edge of creation, but I don't remember seeing anything about Meru having a dragon holding court on the slopes.

>>44012778

Not just the least Exalt, they had the help of the Arbiters of Fate and the Greatest Martial Artists bar none.

>>44012885

He sleeps WAY beneath it, IIRC.

>>44012860
> natural selection means that only the most heroic hero Everyman is picked for the role
You have no idea what you are talking about. Stop this at once.
> someone worth living under
Do you know what democracy is about? It's about people sharing the collective power, and through it, elevating (le exalting :^)) themselves. Democracy when done right is the source of its own strength, while non-democratic regimes are entirely dependent on their rulers, who are never infallible, be they mighty god-kings or whoever else.

>>44012885
>Someone posts one of your images

Shit man, I even forgot those four trees.

>>44012785
The First Age as depicted by 2e was really dumb. Modern day with a thin coat of fantasy paint. No thank you

>>44012889
Yes. The point being that being the strongest doesn't mean they can't be beaten and does not "deprotagonize" anyone.

>>44012921

Yeah, but democracy didn't account for Essence channelers or people who could live for thousands of years. I'm sure the Deathlords or the Fair Folk are really impressed by your Constitution. They might keep it as a toe rag.

The Deathlords have powers like "Everyone who is not an Exalted dies, full stop, because I looked at them."

>>44012884
> The Sidereals manipulate everyone, run fate
I.e. are irrelevant.
> are responsible for nearly everything that has happened
I.e. did one thing a while back that they can't even repeat any more.
> They have Chejop Ketchup and Rakan Thulio.
I.e. they have boring NPCs which further steal the spotlight from the players' characters.
> The Dragon-Blood are supremely important to running just about any game of Exalted
So are farmers, salt miners, shoe cobblers, and many, many other people.
> The Abyssals want to KILL EVERYTHING
And are all about killing or dealing with wanting to kill. Wew, lad.
> are backed by the Underworld and the Deathlords
Further limiting their agency.
> THAT REMAINS TO BE SEEN
We both know how it will turn out.

>>44012374

Usupation plots

Smoke weed do bitches

>>44012965
That's as much a critique of democracy as saying that various natives the world over were better off being colonised because at least they were closer to modern technology. Just because you have irreplaceable people doesn't mean they should decide how everyone else gets to live.

>>44012965

Basically this. Mortals cannot survive without the Exalted. You can't have a normal system of government where everyone is equal if some people are fundamentally not.

>>44012967
I don't even know what you're trying to say. Those reasons make the other Exalted extremely important to the setting. If you take out every Exalt but Solars the setting wouldn't work. Guess the other ones ARE relevant. Huh, who would have guessed.

I'm personally hoping the Sids get less fucked over in 3e.

Because 2e was kinda bullshit there.

>Heaps of them have been corrupted/controlled by the Yozi
>The empire they secretly run is falling apart.
>Heaven, supposedly their sanctuary, hates them.

At least Solars have the 'You are going to be more powerful than basically all your foes' as a comfort.

With an entire new exalt type come to make war with them over the 'Tyranny of Fate' AND the Lunars showing they can make a loom of fate that can override the Sid loom in an area...I'm really worried the Sids are going to come out of this seeming about Cobra Commander level incompetent and evil.

Doesn't help that 'Fighting Fate' is a very classic modern story so I could easily see the new exalts being portrayed as in the Right.

>>44013043
Are you literally autismal? I was talking about how the game doesn't accommodate for non-Solar PCs. I don't give a fuck if other splats are important fluff-wise if they can barely be played as written.

>>44013044
>Doesn't help that 'Fighting Fate' is a very classic modern story so I could easily see the new exalts being portrayed as in the Right.

This is pretty much my only real hesitation over Getimians, but in the opposite way: if the Getimians are TOO cartoonishly evil, because of Holden's Sidboner, then the Sidereal thesis, that the Loom is both right and necessary and so are they, isn't ever really tested or proven.

I have basically no fear that Getimians will be seen as Right anywhere but on 4chan, since they're working against a devbias and from an inherently untenable position, but I do have a fear that they'll be wrong in the wrong way.

>>44013084
You are hiding your argument that "the game doesn't accommodate for non-Solar PCs" remarkably well, in that case.

I'm not sure anything you said supports that assertion. Maybe you're just an unhappy Lunar superfan?

>>44013044

Actually, only a few were corrupted, if you go by RotSE. But just one or two are more than enough. In the Lotus Massacre, some have to be hijacked via One Hand Fury (i.e. Infernal Monster Style).

There doesn't really need to be a lot of traitors, really. There are only, what, a hundred Sidereals?

>>44013120
I'm now quite sure you are either autismal or have an acute case of ADHD.
>>44013153
> only a few were corrupted
And all of them were top brass. It's ridiculous how absolutely nobody managed to figure it out.

>>44012884
>Chejop Ketchup
It's Chejop Carjack or Ketchup Carjack, get it right.
It's actually Chejop Kejak for anybody who isn't aware of that character

>>44013183
Nice, so you don't have any real arguments to back up your assertion and are just another rabid Lunar fanboy

>>44012408

Technically, with the right charms, you could fuck the crazy right out of her. You could probably make it a Social Combat Combo.

>>44012921

>Thinking democracy is actually the best form of government

Even libertarianism is better

>>44013153

That's what I meant by 'Controlled' rather than 'Corrupted'. One Hand Fury.

>>44013287
Memetarianism is corporate dictatorship disguised so poorly I still refuse to believe that on this planet exists even one sucker who actually believes in the idea's supposed message.

>>44013292
>One Hand Fury.

That sounds curiously like a wanking euphemism.

>>44012885
That Tactical Genius charm tree, sounds like a Sidereal thing to me.

>>44015112

Yep. It was the Author of the module wanking all over Infernals.

>>44008466
I'll point out that in this edition, Essence Sight doesn't let you see people using their own Charms, just Evocations, Sorcery, dimensional boundaries like Shadowlands or Wyld zones, and spirit sanctums.

Random thought about crafting: if palaces and ships are examples of things that would be examples of mundane Superior projects, would building a sewer system for a large, established city be a mundane Legendary project? I got the idea after watching this video about the process of building London's sewer system:
https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=cba7di0eL8I

>>44010231
That's largely how I imagine it anyway. Solars made the best shit but they didn't make all the shit, hell wasn't necromancy discovered by a lunar? Point is that all the exalt types dudes one pretty cool shit, but Solars did the coolest shit cause that's their whole shtick.

About the earlier discussion about the Bull of the North and him being able to achieve in a decade more than Lunars in all the centuries since the Usurpation, is there actually any reason to assume that Lunars haven't done the same? I mean, the Bull is unlikley to be the first conqueror to rise outside the Realm. The one and sole difference between him and the ones that came before is that he's still active and, due to the myriad other problems the Realm is facing, is in a position to continue his conquests without getting his face kicked in. We have only a rough outline of the history of the Creation. There are bound to be huge, dramatic, even potentially Creation-changing events and developments that we haven't heard about yet.

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>>44012111
>As I said, Bull of the North had accomplished a similar feature all by himself in less than a decade after his exaltation.

>>44016174
>About the earlier discussion about the Bull of the North

Only mention of Bull in 3e is a line stating he's conquered "several cities with military precision". There's no reason to assume he'll be occupying the same role in geopolitics that he was previously (just as Ma-Ha-Suchi's role has changed), particularly as the devs have indicated they don't really want to revist the same locations and characters in Ex3 that were already covered in 2e/1e.

It's entirely possible new players will only learn who Bull is when grognards start ranting about him.

>>44010251
We always come back to state endorsed breeding farms.

>>44011138
And yet, when you buy the 'Exalted' book, it lets you play Solars.

>>44016468
While also suggesting you should consider playing other Exalted as well.

>>44012860
There is nothing about Exaltation that makes you a better ruler; it makes you a more effective ruler.

>>44016499
While not giving you actual ability to.

>>44016553
>the rules are only ever the core book

Better throw out all the nWoD rulebooks, it's only made for mortals it seems.

>>44016560
>Implying mortals aren't the best games in nWoD

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>>44016464

I believe that's exactly the kind of ero RP game that >>44009407 was trying to find out if anyone else was in on (I'm not).

I hope they don't print specific % chances for DB kids Exalting again, or specific numbers of Dynasts/DBs in Creation. Battle groups and sorcerous workings have made it easier to come up with big threats for the Circle, but it's nice to be able to pull out a couple of experienced DBs when you need to.

>>44009999
>>44009741
The 2.5 Abyssals book had a "weakened' (still incredibly deadly) version of the Contagion in a sidebar under medicine charms.

It also had a zombie plague at the end of the necrotech chapter.

>>44016468
You do realize that you can't possibly fit all the splats in one book, right? Even if all of them are supposed to be equally important, some will be published earlier than the others. This tells us nothing whatsoever about who you're supposed to play or who the default protagonists are supposed to be.

>>44016464
Funnily enough, I think that 3e's actually introduced a reason that the Scarlet Empire hasn't gone this way, besides the dubious morality of the whole enterprise: Essence Fever. What are you going to do when, for every adult Terrestrial, you've got a hundred Terrestrial teenagers with the burning tempers of Fire, the unyielding stubbornness of Earth, the venomousness of Wood, the freeform fecklessness of Air, or the deep currents of Water?

Worse, what are you going to do if they start unpredictably *combining* them, the way that Terrestrials can call upon multiple elements through their Charms?

The Scarlet Empire handles this through years and years of schooling, but if you're running a massive breeding program, that's not going to be possible.

>>44017198
Really, I'd say that 'teenagers with superpowers' is a good enough reason to not have breeding farms even without Essence Fever. Something like that is just asking for trouble.

>>44016551
Arguably, with all that power concentration and the great curse... It makes you a worse ruler.
More powerful, more difficult to reason with, more difficult to oust. With a extra seed of crazy.

>>44016551

I don't agree. I think people who Exalt are Solars are naturally inclined to be rulers. Sure, different kind of rulers, but the nature of the Solar Exaltation means they're starting from extremely high-quality material. These are people who would have gone on to do something awesome even without Exalting.

They're likely the best-qualified for the role, just for standing out from all the mediocre masses.

>>44017307
'Awesomeness' doesn't make you better at making good choices. And the book does not even in the slightest support your first post.

>>44017307
Never mistake great in scope, for good.
There is absolutely no guarantee that all that awesome won't be turned to atrocity... Quite the contrary, there is indication that such staggering power will eventually be used for some insanity.

>>44012451
>If I can play as someone else, why the fuck are those options not accommodated for?
They need to shove in splatbooks somehow. That's the only reason.

>>44017321
>>44017326
Yeah. The whole history of the Exalted setting can pretty much be summed up as "bad choices executed really well," after all.

>>44017388
>"bad choices executed really well"

That's Exalted in a nutshell in my experience. The game's drama entirely revolves around the consequences of PCs accumulated power and making waves the size of mountains in the process.

>>44009407
sauce?
>captcha: sage
B-but that's not a thing anymore...

>>44017198
>>44017223

That and people always forget: You still need to earn your exaltation as a DB. If you are a layabout who never did anything ever, it doesn't matter how pure your blood is.

So what should I be focusing on with socialize? I made a social character and wanted to play with persona but now I just find myself with those charms not really using them. They'll just be shelved until I get enough experience and essence to make personas with the right charms.

I've become a lot more interested in other aspects of the charmset. I'm not used to almost nothing being UMI though. It's a good change but it's weird having to learn a new system entirely.

>>44017754
>I'm not used to almost nothing being UMI though. It's a good change but it's weird having to learn a new system entirely.

Play with Supernal Presence, focusing on the seduction charms; it might not be UMI, but it might as well be. Rose-Lipped Seduction Style is stupidly powerful; read through the list of what things make Social Influence unacceptable, and consider that it makes all of them irrelevant. It doesn't just let you turn gay men straight and straight women gay, though that's a valid use for it.

It lets you instill an Intimacy out of nowhere, without needing another Intimacy to support it.

It lets you persuade people to perform major tasks without needing supporting Intimacies, as long as you could reasonably spin the persuasion as "seduction" - "Well, I'd think about it, but you're married, so..."

It can let you convince characters to commit suicide - "Oh, I've got a fetish for ghosts!"

It can let you convince people to betray Defining Intimacies - you can literally convince Peleps Deled to betray the Immaculate Order and join your army rather than murdering you.

Seriously, it's ridiculously powerful. They can still stop it by spending Willpower, but combine it with Performance's Thousand Courtesan Ways, and you can make a magical flurry of two seduction-related social actions every round to ablate away 2wp a turn, at which point they wind up becoming your mind-controlled sex slave. Or mind-controlled Beta Orbiter, if that's what you'd rather have. You know, either or.

>>44017857
My group has informal rule where we don't crib on each others things. I probably won't focus on seduction because someone else already is.

>>44017857
What are you on about? The Rose-Lipped Seduction Style only helps with seduction, in the sense of getting someone to sleep with you. You might be able to persuade Peleps Deled to fuck you, if you want to do so for some reason, but no ST in his right mind would let you 'seduce' him into joining your army. It also does absolutely nothing to help you instill Intimacies, because it enhances a persuade action, not an instill action.

>>44017896
Fair enough, then!

>>44017914
>What are you on about? The Rose-Lipped Seduction Style only helps with seduction, in the sense of getting someone to sleep with you.

There's more to seduction than just getting someone to sleep with you, anon. You can get them to do things to "earn" the right to be with you, or to do things because of their desire for you. National intelligence agencies are wary of honeypot spies for a reason, you know. In a more mythic look at it, if you have Rose Lipped Seduction Style, you're like Helen of Troy, whose beauty is such that a thousand ships were launched to reclaim her.

>You might be able to persuade Peleps Deled to fuck you, if you want to do so for some reason, but no ST in his right mind would let you 'seduce' him into joining your army.

Peleps Deled is an Immaculate Monk; he's taken an oath of celibacy. He can't fuck you without breaking that oath and betraying his beliefs, and, since he needs to be close to you to fuck you, where better to go than to join your army?

>It also does absolutely nothing to help you instill Intimacies, because it enhances a persuade action, not an instill action.

Hmm. I guess you're technically right, even though seduction in general can take the form of either Instill or Persuade actions. It's not like you need the Intimacies, though, if you've got the charm.

>>44018003
>It's not like you need the Intimacies, though, if you've got the charm.
And you're willing to subject the ST to these bullshit arguments.

>>44018003
>You can get them to do things to "earn" the right to be with you
Which sounds a lot like the bargain action, which Rose-Lipped Seduction Style also doesn't enhance.

> or to do things because of their desire for you
That would not, in itself, be seduction, but a persuade action appealing to an Intimacy of lust. R-LSS would not enhance such an attempt, not as written.

>National intelligence agencies are wary of honeypot spies for a reason, you know.
Sure. Love and lust can be used to persuade people do all sorts of things. This is also true in Exalted, but R-LSS does not directly enhance such persuasion. Getting someone in your bed in the first place obviously helps with creating those lusty intimacies in the first place, obviously.

>Peleps Deled is an Immaculate Monk; he's taken an oath of celibacy. He can't fuck you without breaking that oath and betraying his beliefs
Yeah, and as he is written, Peleps Deled seems like the kind of guy who'd externalize the self-hatred and humiliation caused by breaking his oaths. He'd be more likely to kill you for leading him astray than to join you.

>Hmm. I guess you're technically right, even though seduction in general can take the form of either Instill or Persuade actions. It's not like you need the Intimacies, though, if you've got the charm.
Of course you need the intimacies. The social system revolves around leveraging intimacies to get people act or think the way you want. Anything that isn't directly, unambiguously, unarguably seduction still works under the normal rules, Rose-Lipped Seduction Style or no.

>>44018154
>Of course you need the intimacies. The social system revolves around leveraging intimacies to get people act or think the way you want. Anything that isn't directly, unambiguously, unarguably seduction still works under the normal rules, Rose-Lipped Seduction Style or no.

Yes, anything that is seduction. Your reading of it is far too limited; seduction, again, is not just getting people into bed. It basically lets you replace justifying a social action by saying "because they have [intimacy]" with justifying a social action by saying "because I'm just that sexy".

>>44018205
>Yes, anything that is seduction. Your reading of it is far too limited; seduction, again, is not just getting people into bed. It basically lets you replace justifying a social action by saying "because they have [intimacy]" with justifying a social action by saying "because I'm just that sexy".
It absolutely does not. The limited reading is the correct one and the reasonable one.

Do you genuinely think 'seducing people' to join your army is how this charm is intended to work?

>>44018205
Aside from the fact that the way the Charms is written, it's prerequisites, the connotations of the word 'seduce' and the sidebar on the Red Rule that's right next to the Charm imply that it's supposed to be directly related to sex and persuading people to have it, having a single Charm basically let you ignore most of the social system is too retarded even for Holden and Morke.

>>44018154
So like what would I need to work with socialize? some other ability

>>44018282
Well, what do you want to do? Presence is the most important ability for active social influence, even if you don't want to seduce people. If you want to be more of a social support character, like someone who can read other people and give more Presence-oriented teammates advice on how to proceed, Integrity would be good for helping you maintain your cool and keep your wits about you in social situations. Socialize, Integrity and Presence are all important one way or another for social influence.

>>44018282
For me the 'social package' is Listener Swaying Argument, Harmonious Presence Meditation, Tiger's Dread Symmetry, Mastery of Small Manners and Motive-Discerning Technique. You don't actually need that many charms, but they make the social system a lot easier.

>>44018307
I see. Well I was going to go Socialize heavy but I did want to be active with social influence. I guess I can split it between it and presence. Rather than getting all socialize and dipping a few into presence like I have been.

>>44016464
There is no need for that. As I said, being more likely, up the point of certainty, to exalt offers a significant adaptational advantage. Breeding 5-6 DBs should outperform all their peers over the generations simply because there should be more of them, not less.

>>44018354
DBs run a risk of dying from supernatural threats, wars and assassination. They do not alwyas take on spouses of equal Breeding. Sometimes they become Immaculates. And we don't know how Breeding works this edition.

>>44017223
>>44017198
Teenagers with superpowers is manageable, given proper social incentives. Sidereals and her Redness are both tremendously good social manipulators: they could create a society able to absorb a good number of superpowered teenagers. Even if we remove the Mind-Control-your-children DB charms from the equation, which Holden probably will, because Holden hates everything that could be even remotely sexual.

Managing teenagers with superpowers and supernatural urges to fuck everything that move, to burn building and the say 'fuck you' to the police is a whole other thing. Essence Fever is actually a decent explanation as to why nobody tried to mass produce DBs, though it still does not explain why the population of DB never once grown in 2000 years since her Redness uprising.

>>44018474
>Essence Fever is actually a decent explanation as to why nobody tried to mass produce DBs, though it still does not explain why the population of DB never once grown in 2000 years since her Redness uprising.
First, it's been around 1500 years since the Usurpation, and the Scarlet Empress ruled for 763 years before her disappearance. Not 2000 years. Secondly, do we even know that the Dragon-Blooded population hasn't grown at any point? It's entirely possible there are more Dragon-Blooded around now than there were after the Contagion and the Balorian Crusade.

>>44018464
Are you at all capable of thinking in Darwinian terms? DBs with high Breeding, which we know for sure directly affects the likelihood of passing their exaltation on to their offspring, should constitute the absolute majority of DB population because there should be more of them and their clan structure makes full use of this.

>>44018474
>Holden hates everything remotely sexual.
I wonder who did that to him.

>>44018474
>because Holden hates everything that could be even remotely sexual.
Holden, the co-developer of the only edition to have sex charms in the core book. Author of 'rape-ghosts'.

>>44018586
He's just false-flagging to turn people against sex!

>>44018743
Those false-flaggers are so annoying, even when they agree with me they're just pretending.

>>44018524
I think you are just trying to prove your claim by dismissing every factor that doesn't suit you. The thing is, high Breeding DBs are very rare because DBs as a whole went near extinct along with all other life in Creation after contangion and Balorian Crusade. They often breed with mortals and low-breeding DBs and the high breeding ones are often a result of generations-long eugenics plans. They most often take spuses of lover breeding which dilutes the blood. Or become generals and die in some backwater satrapy while trying to fight your Solar PC. Or become Immaculates and vow celibacy. Or are killed/shuned by their envious siblings or rival Houses.

>>44018262
I wouldn't be so sure about it. After all they've written the entirety of Craft Charmtree to ignore the whole of Craft subsystem. I wouldn't put making Charms that ignore the established mechanics behind them. Rule number one: Holden is incompetent. Rule number two: Holden will never admit he's incompetent. Rule number three: Morke isn't going to correct him on that.

>>44018923
Note to self: Just post a link to the page next time, you massive tool.
http://jojo.wikia.com/wiki/Joestar_Family

>>44018863
> dismissing every factor that doesn't suit yo
There are no such factors. None. Zero. You are pulling them out of your colon just so you can defend a narrative point that makes exactly no sense.
> DBs as a whole went near extinct along with all other life in Creation after contangion and Balorian Crusade
That's a positive factor for high Breeding DBs, you fuckwit. Given lower numbers, each individual DB pulls more weight, and Breeding is the one trait to ensure that a family can reliably produce DBs.
> They often breed with mortals and low-breeding DBs
1. There is exactly zero reason for this. The meta-reason is that fantasy is almost inherently reactionary, and you can't be more obviously reactionary than pushing the Golden Age and degeneration over time angles.
2. As I said, having your offspring outperform the offspring of your neighbours gives your line a significant advantage. It doesn't matter if some DBs dilute their blood, it only means that they will be less successful in propagating their bloodline.
> high breeding ones are often a result of generations-long eugenics plans
As I said, there is no need for that. High Breeding is naturally more advantageous to posses and thus is a trait that will preserve itself in all but the most unlikely of circumstances.
The rest of your attempts at reasoning are just sad. Don't defend undefendable positions, it's bad for your health.

>>44018990
>1. There is exactly zero reason for this.
For marriages, Breeding isn't the only thing that matters. All the usual reasons behind political marriages are also at play, and these reasons don't always favor choosing the potential spouse with highest Breeding. As for less formal affairs, lust and sometimes actual love are what direct the choice of partner.

>>44018990
>That's a positive factor for high Breeding DBs, you fuckwit.
No, because they died. Everyone died and high-Breeding DBs weren't an exception. If anything, they were probably on front lines fighting the Raksha. And if you are the only high-Breeding DB in 2000 miles radius then you just have kids with that Breeding 2 daughter of powerful Dynast. You diluted your blood but probably got some nice political connections and resources. And that's what I am trying to say: high Breeding DBs are just too rare to even couple together on a reliable basis. PCs can get Breeding 5 easy but you can also get Cult 5 or Resources 5 so that deosn't mean anything.

Also, there really is no need to be rude.

>>44010126
Remember, probably a little less than half of all humanity in Creation lives in the Realm. Mostly because an easy 80% of the best farmland in Creation is on the Blessed Isle or under Realm control, and a peasant who ain't eating ain't reproducing.

>>44019043
> All the usual reasons behind political marriages are also at play
Except that there is rarely any reason for DBs to marry anyone but other DBs, and there is also little reason for those DBs to not have high Breeding, since, as I already said, it's a trait that preserves itself.
> lust and sometimes actual love are what direct the choice of partner
> implying lust and love just happen for no reason
>>44019080
Are you fucking daft? Did you fail elementary school math so bad they kicked you out and told you to never return? Your post is filled with such awful reasoning it gives me shivers. Please kill yourself and stop troubling others.

>>44019097
I thought the Blessed Isle's population was more like 100 million, which is about a fifth of the 500 million human inhabitants of the entire Creation.

>>44019123
It doesn't make much sense as written, really. The Blessed Isle should host at least a half of the total population, if not the majority of it. But then that would make the writers sad since they wouldn't be able to just hand Solars armies to storm the Realm with.

>>44019121
>Except that there is rarely any reason for DBs to marry anyone but other DBs, and there is also little reason for those DBs to not have high Breeding, since, as I already said, it's a trait that preserves itself.
As long as DBs with low Breeding are born - which obviously happens because DBs fuck even regular mortals with no Breeding whatsoever - and as long as DBs with low Breeding can raise to a high position, there will be reasons to marry these low-Breeding Dragon-Blooded for wealth, influence and connections.

>> implying lust and love just happen for no reason
Well, no. People generally feel lust for people they find physically attracting and fall in love with people with traits that appeal to them. What does this have to do with Breeding?

>>44012242
Solars niche is excellence and uncontested mastery of individual skills. Not versatility. In fact, an individual Solar is actually less versatile in all likelihood than a Lunar. Solars power comes from choosing one thing and excelling in it beyond all other things.

Just because an individual Twilight is the best Sorcerer, an individual Zenith is the best singer, or an individual Eclipse is the best socialite doesn't mean they are best at everything.

The Lunar niche is versatility. They raise up armies like disposable knives and send loincloth wearing psychopaths to eat away at the realm. Appear in the night, seduce a king of men, kill him, and take his shape. They flitter into homes as birds, murder as bears, and escape as bugs.

Sidereals run creation and weave dreams and prognosticate while dealing with Hot Fuzz level paperwork and Jack Bauering across creation.

Dragon Bloods are the scions of the current greatest legacy in Creation. Each is a soldier among other gifts. Each can navigate a boudoir, battlefield, or gala with equal precision and raw power.

All of them do things Solars just can't do. Because a Solar's niche is just to be the goddamn best at your thing. The First Age fell apart because the Solars made the world turn around their skill and power. They were overthrown for that exact same reason. Clearly being the best doesn't help with everything.

>>44019215
Or in other words, you play a splat that isn't a Solar because you want to have fun doing the thing that splat does.

>>44019121
>Your post is filled with such awful reasoning it gives me shivers
Explain it, please. What I am saying is that DBs population was heavily reduced and there aren't enough high-Breeding DBs to preserve their blood because they often just don't have the luxury to pick Breeding 5 partner. And if they pick anything less, their blood is diluted Meanwhile you are just insulting me which isn't very constructive.

>>44019121
>Are you fucking daft? Did you fail elementary school math so bad they kicked you out and told you to never return? Your post is filled with such awful reasoning it gives me shivers. Please kill yourself and stop troubling others.
I think that should be directed at you, but not as hostilely, good sir.
Because I'm pretty sure you're not Hitler.

>>44018586
>3+ years and people still bitch about rapeghosts.

I guess I can't complain, I basically bring up the same things over and over to put shade on things/people I don't like either.

I find most of the Exalted types really interesting, from DBs and their familial obligations to Lunars and their shapeshifting and struggling with Solar bonds. I'd love to play each type at least once.

Too bad it's so hard to find games.

>>44019372
If you cannot find a game, then run a game.

>>44019371
I was not being serious with that, I think some people here just hate Holden and will hate him any excuse they have.

>>44019382
I don't know the setting well enough for something like that. I don't really know what would make for a good adventure in Creation. I have hardly even any idea of what a game of Exalted is supposed to look like.

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>>44019416
I don't know why some anons are so invested in making us think Holden is an asshole.

We already know that, the problem is that we largely don't care.

>>44019416
Not like there's anything wrong with that, there are valid reasons for disliking the guy, but hating everything he's touched out of principle is pretty retarded.

>>44019170
> As long
These are two as longs that are very unlikely to influence the big picture.
> What does this have to do with Breeding?
Existence defines consciousness. I'll leave you to ponder on this.
>>44019272
> What I am saying
You made a hidden assumption that high-Breeding DBs were hit the hardest, which only makes sense if you use a narrativist reactionary logic that states that all good things cease to be in a downward spiral. You are begging the question.
>>44019365
Are you clinically incapable of doing the math for this? It's not hard, it's literally "high-Breeding DBs have all of their children exalt, which, given even roughly comparable reproduction rates for those with high and low Breeding, means nothing but that high-Breeding DBs should triumph, period".

>>44019435
Anon, the magic trick to GMing is to just stop worrying and do it. Think about the kind of campaign you'd find cool as a player and run that, don't get too attached to the plans you made before the campaign started, make shit up if you're not sure how the lore actually goes.

Why are Exalted fans so insufferable? The game is alright, I guess, but all the dedicated players are kinda assholes.

>>44019447
>>44019452
Completely agree. Yes, Holden is a tosser but do we really need epic memes about every stupid thing he says?

>>44019508
Welcome to /tg/ and enjoy your stay.

>>44019467
But the breeding dilutes if/when you breed with a lower breed

>>44019525
So. Fucking. What?

>>44019467
>These are two as longs that are very unlikely to influence the big picture.
That is an assumption that requires actual arguments to support it, anon.

>Existence defines consciousness. I'll leave you to ponder on this.
My pondering has led me to the conclusion that you not having clue about what you're talking about is the most likely explanation. At any rate, I'm pretty confident in assuming that the Dragon-Blooded are fully capable of lusting after people with no Breeding, including mortals, that they will frequently act on these feelings, and that these trysts will lead to the birth of significant number of children.

>>44019435
Hmm... that sounds like a problem.

There are some games of Exalted being run as PBPs. If you can't find a game of your own, you can at least read those to get an idea.

This thread might also be useful: http://forum.rpg.net/showthread.php?769822-Exalted-3E-First-Time-Storyteller-Seeking-Advice-Feedback-on-Campaign-Concept

>>44019467
>It's not hard, it's literally "high-Breeding DBs have all of their children exalt, which, given even roughly comparable reproduction rates for those with high and low Breeding, means nothing but that high-Breeding DBs should triumph, period".
But someone who is exceedingly picky about his partners will most likely not have even roughly comparable reproduction rate as someone who sticks it in anyone pretty and willing, Breeding be damned.

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>>44019555
I give up. You are too persistent in your stupidity to listen to anything I have to say. Enjoy your wilful ignorance.

>>44019579
See, this is why you're stupid and I feel very tired. Did you fail your biology class that hard?

>>44012500
>Ordinary people don't come to positions of power that matter in Exalted.
The Guild is run by mortals you stupid piece of shit.

>>44019585
People would be more inclined to listen to you if you actually made reasonable arguments. Whether you have a point or not, you're giving the impression of someone who has no arguments and therefore resorts to insults.

>>44019617
People like the Tri-Khan, the Perfect of Paragon or the Tyrant of Gem also hold more wealth and power than the vast majority of the Dragon-Blooded.

>>44019656
I already explained myself several times. Your failure to comprehend English is no one's fault but your own.

>>44019617
And most heads of state are also mortals.
The only non-mortals I can think of in a position of power, outside the Realm, is probably the Chumyo of Lookshy, who is PROBABLY a Dragon-Blooded, given their whole thing with the gentes, the Emissary of Nexus, if you buy into them being the same person for the past howeverlong/the ST decides they are, and the Three in Great Forks.

Outside the Scavenger Lands, though, specifically along the Yanaze River(or whichever one it is that Lookshy's on the mouth of), nobody in power is implied or stated to be anything but mortal. Sure, you can have it be so every city is run by a Dragon-Blooded or other exalt, but that's not how it is in the default version of the setting.

>>44019544
Breeding can be diluted, but not distilled. You've heard of Gambler's Ruin, right?

>>44019685
Other people have also addressed your explanations. Entirely reasonable points raised about the reasons Dragon-Blooded might choose to procreate with others of lower Breeding or even mortals, and about how the Blood of the Dragons is easy to dilute and exceedingly hard to return to its former strength, have mostly gone unaddressed or addressed only with inane insults.

>>44019672
>Tyrant
The Despot is an okay person, I think.

>>44019755
It was Despot, huh? I wasn't quite sure about the title but felt too lazy to check. Anyways, he's a mortal, he's one rich and powerful fucker, and I seem to recall it being mentioned somewhere that he has Exalted in his employ.

>>44019755
He's much nicer in 3E, but in 2E he was this Blackadder-esque tool.

>>44019774
I'm pretty sure that Tyrant and Despot are both valid titles for him.

>>44019517
We don't need them, Holden, but they're fun and they piss you off, so.

>>44019800
>Holden
Nice meme, friend.

>>44019712
I repeat for the nth time, Breeding is a trait that preserves itself. It doesn't matter if it cannot be regained if it never gets lost in the first place.
>>44019740
> Other people have also addressed your explanations
No. Not a single one of you fuckwits even as much as referenced population mechanics, on which the whole of my argument rests.
Admit it, you're just too stupid to be able to contribute to the conversation.
> Entirely reasonable points
No. These are impotent objections that could only possibly matter in very specific circumstances and which cannot possibly influence the general trend. The only reason you think those objections are reasonable is because you failed to comprehend my argument.

>>44019844
>I repeat for the nth time, Breeding is a trait that preserves itself. It doesn't matter if it cannot be regained if it never gets lost in the first place.
That's a nonsense proposition. It requires that everyone involved behaves in the way you feel is optimal. It does not 'preserve itself' you just expect people to preserve it.

>>44019874
Jesus fucking Christ. Are you at all aware of the concept of evolutionary advantage? What was your grade for biology?

>>44019508
Because the ones that stayed after all this time are of two minds- those who suck the developer cok, who incident;ly tend to be SJWs, and those who are basically antisocial fucktards. Pick your poison.

>>44019929
Why is higher breeding an evolutionary advantage. It doesn't actually facilitate the dragon-blood in any way beyond a slightly higher chance of DB offspring. Any DB has an increased chance of survival, but higher breeding doesn't really change that survival chance.

There is also no guarantee that said children will exalt or that they will have the same level of breeding as the parent.

>>44020015
You know you didn't do well. I'll pretend you didn't write this, so sit down and think of something better.

>>44019544
Are we gonna need to break out the punnet squares? You just need the following layout:
>Uppercase 'E'= High-Breeding
>Lowercase 'e'= Low-Breeding

Therefore your possible DB Breeding combinations (those represented by your breeding stock) are gonna be 'EE', 'Ee', and 'ee', each combination.of two will yield these combinations, you the exact ratios will vary.

>'EE'X'ee' will always give 'Ee'
>'EE'X'Ee' will give 'EE' and 'Ee' in a ratio of 3:1
>'ee'X'Ee' gives 'ee' and 'Ee' in a ratio of 3:1
>'Ee'X'Ee' will give all three variations in a ratio of 1:2:1
>'EE'X'EE' and 'ee'X'ee' are rather self explanatory

All you need is something to check the purity of essence within your "purchase" and your "product" and that should be it.

>>44019844
>No. These are impotent objections that could only possibly matter in very specific circumstances
No, you goddamn mouthbreather. They matter in very common circumstances. Wealth and influence determine who's the most advantageous person to marry. Personal qualities that have fuckall to do with Breeding determine who's an attractive partner for some pre- or extramarital fun. DBs fucking commoners is a common occurrence, as is commoners giving birth to their children. These children Exalting is common enough for a good chunk of the Realm's Dragon-Blooded to be born outside the Dynasty, and these Dragon-Blooded don't keep their filthy mixed blood away from the pure-bred Dynasts - they gain wealth and power through their own efforts, marry as advantageously as they can and frequently dilute the blood of their spouse's bloodline in the process. This is not some rare, insignificant phenomenon, it's a common occurrence that has influenced the 'general trend' longer than the Realm has existed.

>>44020103
How Breeding works between different tiers of it doesn't matter. You aren't addressing my argument here.
>>44020186
> Wealth and influence determine who's the most advantageous person to marry.
Actual DBs as opposet to their non-exalted relatives are more likely to come into wealth and influence; pure-blooded clans produce more DBs per child and in general it is very likely that they will have an overall higher number of DB children than otherwise, as non-pure DBs have relatively low chances of producing viable DB offspring in all the orgies they could possibly have, and unless they specifically go onto breeding sprees, the argument for them outbreeding pure-bloods doesn't apply; as a clan has both a higher number of exalts and a guarantee of producing without failure, it has political capital which simply cannot be emulated, as they have both the numbers and the control over their young.
> they gain wealth and power through their own efforts
They have a definite advantage in comparison to mortals, but they don't have the social links with established clansmen in power to give them a further boost, meaning that they should perform poorly when compared with Dynasts. You can say that Dynasts might need political marriages to expand outside of their domain, but that doesn't mean that their blood has to be diluted in general, as the offspring of such marriages will see itself outperformed by its pure-blooded cousins over the generations.

>>44012298
It's not the bouts of madness themselves that are the issue. It's what happens after, and the ramifications thereof. If your great general sat out a battle and let your army get mauled because he was sulking for no real reason, how do you think this will impact on his men's morale? How will you think of them? Same with the rest.

>>44019874
The problem is that we define "optimal" as how how the group behaves naturally. And he has a point given how evoluton works- a trait that is beneficial is conserved across generations. It makes no biological sense for it to vanish.

Now it actually kinda makes me want to make a conspiracy plot in which Sids are actually responsible for the Dragonblooded getting weaker and weaker over generations.

Think about it. a young Dragonblooded scholar from the Heptagram uncovers the shocking truth along with their dynastic half-sister (they're not actually related, so it's PG 13). Now with the help of their Lunar friend and a Sidereal-turned-traitor, they have to find the bottom of this and avenge the death of our young protagonists' father! This shit writes itself.

>>44020015
... Being Exalted doesn't raise your chancees of survival?

... Where you dropped as a fetus?

>>44020331
Is it even established that bloodline dilution is a Thing affecting Dragon-Blooded in 3e? Rather than, I dunno, it just being the power of the Terrestrial Exaltations wearing thin, or being spread too far, or whatever.

>>44020372
He's talking about one kind of Exalted with better breeding than another Exalted, not in comparison to mortals.

>>44020407
Why is this whole thing reminding me of Harry Potter?

>>44020372
He's just too hurt by my behaviour to admit being wrong at this point. This is one of the reasons I act like a complete cunt in arguments. So fucking satisfying to see people catch themselves into logical traps they can't walk out of.
>>44020382
Eh, unless it's some nonsense like "the blood dilutes because it does and there is no way to do anything about it, since narrativism is everything", it shouldn't change the situation much.

All this bitching about DB breeding is kind of answered by the actual text of the breeding merit

"Even in the First Age, arranged marriages and careful breeding programs were used to strengthen the Blood of the Dragons in the children of Terrestrial Exalts, increasing their chances of Exalting and the power of those who did. In the Realm, the Great Houses refined this process to a fine art. Careful use of marriage incentives, genealogical research and extended research into the inheritance of the Blood of the Dragons has resulted in Terrestrials with greater numbers of Exalted in their ancestry and a higher concentration of the holy Blood of the Elemental Dragons. In Lookshy, the Terrestrials of the Seventh Legion have taken a different route. Despite being the largest concentration of Dragon-Blooded outside of the Realm, they have always lacked numbers sufficient for their goals, and their breeding incentives have stressed prolificacy rather than power. Better a half-dozen Terrestrials of moderate power, than a single Dragon-Blood of great puissance. As a result, although they are as likely to have this Background as Dynasts are, they only rarely have it at great levels (meaning that the cost for a character to have four dots or five dots is doubled). Other outcastes only rarely show signs of Breeding. It takes several generations of careful eugenics to reveal even low levels of improvement, and even in the Realm and Lookshy, this Background is not exactly common. This does not mean, however, that it is impossible. Just as the Blood sometimes springs forth in bloodlines that have not had an Exalt in them for generations, so too do feeble bloodlines combine in surprising ways."

They've BEEN trying to breeding-program their way to better Elemental program for ages, but you also get the shenanigans of sometimes two very low-breeding DB can get a seemingly random child of silly high breeding out of lines with their actual bloodline.

>>44020433
>They've BEEN trying to breeding-program their way to better Elemental program for ages, but you also get the shenanigans of sometimes two very low-breeding DB can get a seemingly random child of silly high breeding out of lines with their actual bloodline.
Just like Mendelian Genetics!

>>44020407
Except that non-pure DBs will have quite a number of their offspring turning out mortal, which is the whole bloody point.
>>44020433
> Better a half-dozen Terrestrials of moderate power, than a single Dragon-Blood of great puissance.
See? This isn't how it works. In fact, it's the opposite: for every five weak-blooded DBs there are at least eight pure-bloods. WW/OP writers are simply unable to think in scientific terms, which is nothing new.

>>44020382
From the 3E book in the writeup of The Caul

"Most of the fighting has been to control the shrines. As their bloodlines decline in purity, the Dragon-Blooded seek to use the shrines to open the path to Feng-Yi, where they might stave off the waning that has threatened them since time out of mind."

>>44012884
>Chejop Ketchup
Oh, you mean Kneecap Carjack. Also known as...

>Chop-shop Carjack
>Chop-chop Master Onion
>Cheapass Jack Daniels
>Chumpit Clam-jam
>Deadjoke Threadhijack
>Forced Meme
>Hulk Hogan
>Kei Kaku
>Ketchup Love Shack
>Ketchup Blackjack
>Kelp Shop Surf Shack
>Kektop McHaxx
>Nerfpls
>Oldfag
>Sean Connery
>Sid Phillips
>Sid Vicious
>Side Reels
>Thread Highjack
>Topkek Kerchak
>That Faggot
>Yastas Pelann'd