What the hell is the actual appeal of warhammer 40k 7th edition again?
other than "its the latest edition of 40k"
>>43969290
It's very similar to the rules of 6th edition, and the addition of Formations means that there's a lot more flexibility in terms of army composition. If you were already playing 6th edition, there's no reason not to switch.
If you were playing older editions instead though, then there probably isn't much reason to switch to playing 7th over them, as there haven't been many changes.
>>43969290
7th edition was released to solve the IP problems with their use of the term imperial guard. It's not a proper edition release. Expect that when 8th comes out, maybe next summer
>>43969290
You just posted a picture of the appeal OP
Power Squats
7th edition is the latest and greatest, every other edition was inferior in every possible way.
It's the shitty new mismatched codices that are the problem here.
>>43969290
Nothing. Horus Heresy is better.
They've come much closer than in any other previous edition to reaching the platonic ideal of wargaming: the person who spends more money on their army wins.
>>43970969
Doesn't 30k use the same basic rules anyway? Previously 6th, now 7th.
It's much less of a clusterfuck though.
>>43971456
Really? All I ever see are MSU with deathstars. The armies as a whole are cheaper, if you run them in a particular way, with a few exceptions.
It varies from army to army, but I mean Space Marines can basically run that free transport setup so people actually pulled their old Rhinos out.
>>43970959
>Random charge distance
>Good
>>43972932
>not using a shooty army
>>43969579
I would argue formations brought LESS flexability. Especially competative play wise. You are forced to take units for more power, to compete with other formations with more power. CaD should have never been replaced. At least then you would see variety, though spammed units were always common since rogue trader.
>>43971837
uses the same base rules
but its actually balanced on account of the same designers writing the rules instead of various writers who either try to make a balanced-ish codex, or go full ward and make the new eldar, tau, SM, or crons
>>43974948
The main way I think they offer more flexibility is that you can skip over certain parts of the CAD and make a really customized force. Like, if you want to make an Eldar craftworld that doesn't field infantry, you can take formations just for Tanks and Warwalkers.
The special rules do make things more limited from a competitive standpoint, but competitive 40k has been nonsense for a while now.
>>43969290
If you like formations, buffs, and metagaming, 7th edition is great. If you like the CAD or fluff lists, you probably dont play 40k much.
>>43969290
It's what everyone else plays and everyone is forced to play. There isn't any real appeal other than it being sanctioned Apocalpyse-level bullshit.
What was the appeal of 6E even? Flyers? OP as shit. Hull points? Ruined vehicles. Allies? Everyone just cheeses them anyway and you never needed official ally rules to play counts-as or unofficial allies.
>>43969290
Formations is a fantastic idea, but executed poorly. It kinda makes sense to build your collection of minis on force organization, and game balance is much easier when you are not balancing individual models rather than sets of models.
But since GW sucks, we are left with what could have been.
>>43976067
>executed poorly
GW may be a stupid, scummy little company, but they exhibit a certain low, animal cunning from time to time.
Back in 3rd ed, they published a nutty little thing called "Codex: Eye of Terror." It was basically a book of rules intended to make vets (with an army already) buy just one or two more boxes of merch to gain a new play style option. The same paradigm seemed to continue afterward with release of the "Hunter" dexes -
In principle, they sold vets an incentive to continue "hobbying" along with the newbies because, at the time, this is what people in the business of selling models were expected to do - think of ways to sell models. "Build and paint a few of these beauties so you can play your army in a whole new way!"
It worked! Sales rose steadily as popularity peaked. Then, the advent of the "Vets R Badwrongfun" memo heralded the downward trend of sales numbers which Management was pleased to blame on a downturn in the greater economy. (Obviously letting a retard CEO drive a corporate short bus made out of Genuine Citadel Finecast(tm) could have had nothing to do with it ... )
But now, they seem back on track. IIRC, sales volumes peaked around the time Apocalypse debuted, and it seems some board member has finally stared at the hockey-stick graph long enough to finaly ask why they don't just go back to doing whatever it was they did back when sales were high.
And it only took ten years.
>>43977378
>apocalypse was ten years ago
...... my god, i have wasted my life
>>43977626
Think how long ago college was too.
>>43974948
Well Eldars, one of the most competitive army is still using mostly CAD. So does Tzeench summoning horde/FMC-circus, which is still really potent build even if it's monobuild. Also formations brought up surge of tactical marines, rhinos and razorbacks in the table, tomb blades and tomb spyders, stealthsuits, gargoyles and khorne daemons. All of these were almost unheard of in competitive play before formations.
It's widely played and widely available
that's literally it
GW's minis are mostly pretty good tho, but no reason you can't use them in other games.
>>43977881
That's only because Eldar and Daemons are so good that there's no reason to use Decurions for them unless the Decurion is literally just their CAD with more bonuses.
If you can't take scatbikes and Fateweaver or whatever, there's no reason to go Decurion over CAD for those armies. These armies don't have Decurions that take their bad units or already good units and improve them drastically. Other armies do.
Why would Necrons not take Decurion? Why would Marines not take Decurion? Why would AdMech not take War Convo? But the question here is, WHY WOULD ELDAR TAKE A DECURION? There's no reason to, their Decurions aren't bad but their basic codex is already ridiculous. Their CAD is stronger than other armies' Decurions. That already speaks for itself.
>>43978526
>mfw people CONSTANTLY try to justify Infinity or Privateer Press as "cheaper" than GW because you need less models but the models cost way more, like every single time it's brought up
>mfw just use cheap models, GW or otherwise, and play those systems and save even more money than the PP/CB players
Stupidity must go hand in hand with poorness or something.
So do people actually still play 40k competitively?
I mean, what's the appeal in a game as unbalanced as this?
>>43975986
>It's what everyone else plays
That's pretty much the only good thing that Warhammer 40k has going for it - of any given miniatures game, in any given city, you will find people playing it. For any given thing that a new player might want out of miniature wargaming, there is a game that's more suited to it than 40k, but there's no guarantee there's a player base near them playing it. New gamers aren't going to be interested in promoting a new game to players, so 40k - and it's large player base - serves as their introduction to wargames.
>>43969290
Literally just that. Kids who have never seen 40K before will still be roughly drawn to the product for the same reason many of us were as children. It's just that Games Workshop wants to appeal to wealthy faddish short-term buyers exclusively and actively wants to shed what it percieves as a demanding and complicated long-term audience. It wants a seller-buyer relationship like a toy company, with a large, swiftly rotating captive audience willing to spend a good 20-40 $/£ every birthday and christmas on a product without really analysing it.
>>43979420
The competetive scene just mostly ignores underperforming armies, it's simple as that. Eldar with occassional Dark Eldar allies (becasue access to deepstriking open topped vehicles), Necrons, Tau and some Space Marine books as well as Admech WarConvo to a point can compete with each other.
Other factions need to build very specific lists to counter a broad array of playstyles those factions can offer.
Sure, you see some other armies out there that the people just want to make work, but the statistics speak a clear language of the holy TauDarCron-Trinity, with the Imperium of Man coming second in winrate.
>>43979420
Some areas use external balance systems that either place hard restrictions or where each player has to calculate his list's handicap (affects VPs).
>>43979750
>each player has to calculate his list's handicap (affects VPs).
Frankly I'm not sure why this isn't more popular.
All you have to do is award a fifth of the enemy's total army value in VPs for each objective captured/unit destroyed and odd points games are balanced.
>>43972932
>Assault
>In XenoGun 40k
>>43978533
>Why would Eldar take a Decurion?
12 Wraithlords allowance
>>43969290
Eldar and Tau have reached the upper limits on "Point-and-Delete" gameplay. If you play either of them, 7th edition is a great edition b/c you're pretty much guaranteed to wipe, even with a mediocre list
>>43979804
confirmed for noob. it's basically two list concepts of eldar which are broken, tau aren't at all. they're just admittedly flat-out better than csm or blood angels or non-flyrant nids . that's it.
>>43969290
I have a lot of fun trying to make assault based armies work
Im sure ill have more fun when they actually do
>>43979804
Go ahead, "wipe any enemy" with a Biel Tan list.
Mandatory: Autarch warlord, every aspect, at least one Nightspinner/Shadowweaver battery.
>>43979978
Plus mandatory Avatar.
>>43975545
7e offering more flexibility in army building is the best edition so far for fluff armies.
>>43980081
Not exactly. There are both fluff ups and downs to unbound building. I'd argue the Decurion system is overall fluff-positive but there's nothing fluffy about fielding just Rhinos or Apothecaries for instance.
As someone who stopped playing after 4th, my observations:
Big plastic kits like the Baneblade went from being "Apocalypse only" to "Escalation only" to now being in open play. There should be no place for them in <2500pt games and if you play one you should feel bad.
Flyers were once a Forge World novelty, they're not as potent now it appears, but at one point they were cluttering every table. It's pretty clear that they don't suit 40k's scale either.
Rather than take the time to make interesting Chapter Approved lists like the Eye of Terror stuff or the Kroot Mercenaries, they just stick out a datasheet that gives you 500pts of Kroot for 400pts. Boring.
On that point, the Design Studio has been gutted in the last decade. It's clear that the people involved now are not of the calibre of people like Andy Chambers or even Alessio Cavatore, whilst great minds like Jervis Johnson have taken a step back.
You can see why Oldhammer is growing in popularity. I'd rather play something like "Battle at the Farm" with 10 Marines, a Captain and a Scout squad against some Orks instead of "Line up 3 Riptides against 3 Wraithknights" like modern 40k seems to be.
>>43980160
This.
I'd love if they expanded the Path to Glory system to include all factions, small skirmishing armies that can level up and gain new wargear undergoing rolling conversions is very appealing compared to "buy more blobs"
>>43975545
>If you like the CAD or fluff lists, you probably dont play 40k much.
Except the formations are the fluff lists. Decurions are supposed to be what the average army for their respective faction looks like instead of the retarded spam-fests that CADs become. Necrons are supposed to play like an unkillable host of warriors on foot, not min-squads of 5 assholes in Night Scythes supported by Anihilation Barges.
Face it, CADs are shitty and making every army use the same force org isn't fluffy.
>>43980206
Except when the decurions are "x token units and then spam with impunity"
>>43980278
I don't think CADs are that bad but "x token units and then spam with impunity" describes the Troop tax accurately.
>>43980160
nigga that's so 4th edition
>>43980160
Ding Ding Ding.
40k armies should be 1 HQ, 2 Troops, and some trimmings on the side like 5 Terminators and a Predator or whatever. A nice balanced army. By the end of 6 turns both of you have half of your army left to claim objectives.
Now even the most retarded of twelve year olds can buy 3 Knights and a couple of boxes of whatever Stormtroopers are called now, spray them with gold metallic paint, and floor anyone even daring to play a "regular" army.
>>43980291
Theres decurions that do the same.
Eldar is even worse, the best token decurion (windrider) is also the cheapest and unlocks WK and S:D spam.
>>43980382
Yes, that is what you said in your last post
何やらきな臭い
>>43980332
Stormtroopers aren't that good. I have no problem with someone using them as troops.
>>43969290
One reason, is that close combat is at a disadvantage as it should be in a game with guns.
>>43980332
If your balanced army is losing to that army, that is being played by a 12 year old, the issue is with you being shit.
>>43980591
What balanced army is geared to deal with 3 superheavies?
>>43980636
A balanced one. A scion army with knights isn't scary
>>43980630
That's my point, you imbecile. You can't play the kind of "balanced" army you might have seen in 3rd, 4th or even 5th edition anymore because little timmy can rock up with 5 Strength D weapons.
That's the mentality that then makes it "3x big plastic kit vs. 3x big plastic kit" instead of an actual wargame.
>>43980675
Stormtroopers was just an example, I could have said 3 Riptides and two boxes of Fire Warriors.
>>43980681
It still is a war game the number of units don't change that.
Why are you play little timmies? No other place to play?
>>43980687
That army is pretty weak to a balanced army focused on objectives for most mission types.
>>43980675
Dont know what army you play but if i brigh enoufh didicared AT durepower to take tmdiwn 3 superheavies, theres not much budget left.
>>43980710
You don't need to kill them all to win the game. That is the issue you need to understand.
>>43980694
>It still is a war game the number of units don't change that.
It just makes it really fucking boring though. To both paint and play.
>Why are you play little timmies? No other place to play?
Just an example of how listmaking just doesn't exist anymore in 40k. If "little timmy" can do it, it means people older and more experienced than him are too.
>>43980717
>>43980694
>>43980675
>>43980630
>modern 40k players in a nutshell
>>43980737
Cookie cutter lists have always been a thing. Yet people were still and are still making and adjusting their armies based on what they want.
List making is still very alive.
>>43980710
Where did you get this idea from? Just look at the latest winning armies in major tournaments if you want an idea of the current meta.
Protip: 3 superheavies isn't at the top.
>>43980746
>no argument
40k IDF in full swing today
>>43980206
Decurion is a load of bullshit
>>43980717
I do need them to stop shitting pieplates and stomping my everything with impunity.
"Play for objectives/point" is easy to say, harder to do when you can't kill any fliers, deny any witches, destroy any units, force any psychology, slay any warlord and 30" adanantium cunts are parked on half the objectives and saturating the rest with death.
But that's just my anecdotal bile.
>>43969290
7th edition is the best and I've played heavily since 5th ed.
Main reason is allies and the depth of each codex.
Everyone gets hung up on individual units and their pricing - in a vacuum.
Fact is the battlefield role is the most important thing. Each units value changes depending on the balance in your army and how you play / tactics etc.
You can take some over costed units, ignore formations and still have a good chance of winning if you have good tactics.
>>43980799
I don't like the newer system either, but if you can't do any of what you mentioned, you're not playinga fluffy/balanced list. You're just playing a deliberately shitty list
>>43980332
>40k armies should be 1 HQ, 2 Troops, and some trimmings on the side like 5 Terminators and a Predator or whatever.
I can agree with this sentiment.
>>43980799
What is your army like if you can't do any of these?
All grots?
>>43980775
My question is, has 40k ever really been balanced? The core rules always seem fine enough, but what about the codices?
>>43980853
Nids and Orks both have trouble, having no lascannon equivalents
>>43980886
It's not really possible to achieve total balance in a game with so many factions and units in a format that doesn't allow tweaking, nerfing or buffing quite like a video game does
But it's certainly been a lot closer than now
I remember when Carnifexes were one of the most beastly models in the game
They should never have let the scale become so obscene
>>43980888
Can't orks have their own flyers? Nids have flyrants? Ork bikers no good anymore?
>>43969290
It's fun and has better balance than 6th
>>43980913
Yeah, I remember when the new plastic Carnifex came out and there were like 3 WDs dedicated to it. Now there are like half a dozen Nid kits that dwarf it.
>>43969290
It fixed the challenges. Now my nob isn't tuck out of combat every turn so I can finally smack that wraith lord.
>>43980920
How does s5/ap5 bikes or s6 10/10/10 fliers compare to superheavies?
>>43980920
Only Ork flyer that helps against knights is the one with 2 crazy-chart-rolling bombs
Don't know what a flyrant would do against one
Bikers could only deliver a single klaw nob, and the knight will kick their asses
>>43980932
They should have sized HIM up instead of introducing the Trygon
I was sad when he lost the throne as King Nid. He's still one of my favourite models.
>>43980814
>7th edition is the best and I've played heavily since 5th ed.
That's not very long, but anyhow.
>Everyone gets hung up on individual units and their pricing - in a vacuum.
No, people get hung on pricing in the context of entire armies and battle scenarios. When you see people discussing the price and value of units and assume they haven't considered the entire army or the state of the game, not only is that retarded but it's your presumption.
>You can take some over costed units, ignore formations and still have a good chance of winning if you have good tactics.
Why do people say this like it's surprising and relevant? A human can live off just butter and potatos, does that mean that a restaurant that sells nothing but small bowls of them for $15 is good value compared to others?
>>43980886
Almost certainly not. New elements are always being introduced to the game, and fixes to unbalanced elements not only frequently go either too far or not far enough, but sometimes are just right in a game without X common threat but pointless or outright unbalancing once X is introduced. It's really remarkable than 40K is as balanced as it is to be honest with the thread.
>>43980975
You don't kill their superheavies. You kill their dudes.
>>43981017
OH, that's only SIX YEARS.
>>43980886
Late 3rd ed/4th was the best I remember. I mean, 3.5e Chaos is still the best Codex GW ever made except the one page on Iron Warriors.
>>43970959
I'd go with this. Overall the rules aren't that terrible, just an updated 6e. My main beef is with army construction. 6e style 1 CAD with an Allied Detachment at 1-1999pts., 2 in 2000+ would have been best, with 7e Lord of War throw in. Maybe at 2000pts.
I never liked Apocalypse, because it wasn't very organized and in the end everyone just brought 15 slapped together super-heavies and turbo formations. 6e with Escalation was what I always wanted. The ability to have an army with possibly a small contingent on the side, and a super-heavy sometimes.
7e codexes and army building with pretty much "take what you want, we don't care as long as we make money" just makes me sad.
>>43969290
It seems slightly better than 6th (which doesn't say much) apart from the power creep that units are going through. Seriously, I've been out of the loop for about a month and suddenly there's a battlesuit bigger than the fucking Riptide.
>>43981061
As he said, not very long
>>43981084
>tfw these guys are still "new" to you
>>43981061
And? That's only two or three editions, and 5th through 7th haven't exactly been big changes like older ones.
>>43970959
Aside from random charge distance, 7th edition core rules are pretty good. But like you said, the codices are the problem.
>>43981107
Plastic termies? Yeah.
>>43981107
Now I feel old
>>43981107
One of those kits that'll probably stand the test of time
>>43981072
This.
Even IW weren't nearly as bad as the power gap in 5th and 5th wasn't nearly as bad as what we have now.
>>43981119
3 sets of rules changes, and how many codex releases - it's plenty to have a veteran view of the game.
Every thread there's a bunch of farts going on about how 40k is pay to win yet nobody can say what the magic winning army.
3 riptides is it now? or was that 3 knight titans? or 3 baneblades?
All of which haven't won any major tournaments.
>>43981107
That homer tho.
>>43981186
Only major problem i had with 4th was I was a Tau player and fucking sweeping advances then consolidation into melee literally meant I could get Tabled by a dedicated CC unit, or even just a fucking HQ
>>43981119
5th was closer to 3rd than to 6th.
Splitting it up:
1st "Rogue Trader"
2nd "Retrohammer" aka "Tablehammer"
3-5th "Oldhammer"
6-7th "Newhammer"
>>43981154
Yeah, most of the kits post-2000 will only recieve re-cut sprues with a few more upgrades on them. Or a bit of a tinker like the Chimera.
I mean, the basic Space Marine model has been basically the same for the last 20 years nearly. I do wish they came with more than a Flamer and Missile Launcher when I was younger though.
>>43981207
Same with Necrons and phase out.
>>43981214
I made a 1000pt Necron army phase out 44 seconds into a game once with my 6 Obliterators and a lucky Basilisk shot.
>>43981212
Many, actually most, of 40k's models have achieved very iconic looks with nothing to add or take away, and they'll never receive dramatic changes again.
It's a good thing from our perspective, but maybe not GW's, since if they're not putting out new sprues, eventually they'll stop making money
>>43981244
LOL. One worst part of 4th-5th was Chaos lash of submission. Your opponent picks up your models to group them in to a nice ball ready for the pie plate of doom.
One clear rule of wargaming design - you should never have to touch your opponents models.
>>43980116
Yss exactly. There is straight up much more possible variations of the armies you can build meaning you can do much a wider variety of fluffy forces that still follow the rules. 7e was a huge boon to those of us who like building fluffy armies.
>>43981252
Thinking about GW and recent new units
>Stormraven
>Centurions
>Taurox
Why can't modern GW make stuff up as well as it used to?
>>43981208
>3
>oldhammer
Thanks, it's not like going to college in your 30s doesn't make you feel old enough...
>>43981300
All the armies' primary niches have been filled
Now if they want to put out whole new units, they have to invent whole new roles
>>43981207
Tau had it hard in 4th. You really relied on being a mobile army and abusing your hover-transports and so-forth to stop it. Thing is, even the weakest armies could make it to the top tables at serious tournaments.
>>43981190
Kid, you've been playing basically one system and granted the 5-6 change was big. Probably the third biggest change the game's had. 6-7 was a smaller change than the assault test rulepack in 3e was. But to qualify as a vet around here you need to have have played most the 40k SGs, remember the best chaos codex and wargear cards.
>>43981302
I only meant it was distinct from the current, but not so far gone as to be retro.
>>43981329
>But to qualify as a vet around here you need to have have played most the 40k SGs
I wouldn't say that counts. People can remember the SGs from only 2 years ago.
>>43981329
Outside of the occassional CC bullshit. Tau weren't too bad. The only time I actually had to shelf my Tau and switch armies was nearing the end of 5th. Everyone and their dog had 11 rhinos that all had 1 unit in them that ended the game if they made it in. They always made it in.
Another factor was my best-friend/rival was Chaos, and he did the same rhino concept except with Daemon bombs. I literally lost every game after that
>>43981320
Flyers was a niche that wasn't filled until 6e. And there's still a lot of armies lacking in super-heavies and/monstrous creatures.
Big problem with the Taurox is that it's not Fast. It's not really offering anything new over the Chimera. Hell, they could have made it Open-Topped as well (since it has all the internal bits) and enclosing it could have been an upgrade. It would have given IG some cool options. But nope.
Assault Centurions could have been given Hades style tunneling rules. Would have made them more than just big assault terminators. Maybe give you bonuses on the reserve roll depending on the size of the unit (dig faster) and an upgrade on the sergeant to make them scatter less upon entering the field (more accurate calculations).
>>43969290
Tyranids suck slightly less.
Yes I still miss the larger variety of fexs.
>>43981190
>3 sets of rules changes, and how many codex releases - it's plenty to have a veteran view of the game.
I've been playing since 3rd edition and I wouldn't call myself a veteran in this context. Your self-aggrandisment is showing.
>Every thread there's a bunch of farts going on about how 40k is pay to win yet nobody can say what the magic winning army.
Gee whiz, you sure can run with those goalposts.
>>43981419
I loved Carnifexes in that game
>Hueg
>Earth-thudding trex footsteps
>That terrifying charge
This is how they should be
>>43981300
Gimmickry, reinventing wheels and WOAH LOOK SHINY; cheap christmas toy manufacturer's logic.
>>43970452
Is that why it's called Astra Militarium now? Doesn't sound as cool as imperial guard, who made them change it?
>>43981367
GW hasn't admitted that Gorkamorka exists in the last 2 years afaik. I pay less attention these days though.
>>43981394
5th was meltas and metal boxes edition. I was playing orks through it, I feel your pain.
>>43981440
So you've been playing a game for over 10 years and don't consider yourself a vet player?
Let me tell you this. Way before I begin playing a lot in 5th, I played rogue trader and a bit of 2nd. You started about where I left off.
You didn't miss anything except a hacked together swiss army knife of a ruleset that had little to no coherrency trying to be a RPG and a skirmish game with hopes to be a wargame.
It was awesome and terrible at the same time.
Much like roleplaying games, the entire industry evolved and got better and when you take off your rose coloured glasses of sentimentality mostly it was shit compared to now.
I'd consider you a vet because the two editions you missed were a complete mess of rules. Could be fun, loved the setting, fan for life...and all but just this in all honestly
>>43969290
Well depending on the customer it's either
>Mum will get me those fancy toys
or
>My nostalgia is too strong to let go of this garbage
>>43981526
GW has now got an obsession with every product having a copyrightable name, even the paints.
No idea why, I know there was the Chapter House case, but that company was not costing them considerable revenue, if anything they've probably spent more in legal fees.
And it doesn't stop third party companies who use names like "Space Knight shoulder pads" anyway.
>>43970959
One acronym to prove you are full of shit: tLOS
40k has not been good in at least 15 years, but it has certainly been better.
>>43981540
That's pretty funny actually. I switched over to Orks in 5th from my Tau, and loved the shit out of them.
Battlewagon burnas and killakanz/deff dreads with a Big mek lurking about were some of the funniest lists i've ever played.
Dayum shame that now orks are shit tier and my tau are now hate-on-site tier.
the fuck GW
>>43981596
I was running an Armorked Krumpany. Mainly playing monster truck derby on parking lots. Didn't win often, but it was fun.
>>43981579
whats wrong with tLOS?
>>43981526
Yep, and also why it says Adeptus Astartes on the front cover of the Space Marine book. Which to be far works well enough - it makes it clear that these are WARHAMMER space marines without obnoxiously enforcing a term meant as an astere latin official title into vernacular where it's innapropriate. Why they couldn't have also done this with Imperial Guard, we may never know.
>>43981541
Nearer 16, and not in this context. We've got people here who played in 2nd and older, with wargear cards and the like. Compared to your average newboob, sure, even you're a vet. But get some context.
>Way before I begin playing a lot in 5th, I played rogue trader and a bit of 2nd.
Changing your story? Really?
>>43981640
> Didn't win often, but it was fun.
Well if you play orks that's the attitude you need.
>>43981644
No, just added info. It's really relevant because 7th is way better than those systems, and I have play 100 times more games of 5-7th than I did RT and 2nd. Remember the game wasn't big then either, it was just starting.
The context is what's great about 7th. 3e+ is plenty of perspective.
I would say if you've got a 3-4+ years in the game you've seen a few cycles to know about power creep and have an opinion on how it effects armies and specifically your army. That's the context that matters.
>>43981640
mind elaborating? Not quite sure what that is
>>43981642
First of all it is unnecessarily ambiguous. Does this model see 50% of that other model or only 49%? Impossible to tell using only the human eye. It also disincentivizes extravagant conversions which are basically the only reason to ever buy GW minis. It's not by chance that basically any other minis game uses bases (+height stat) or templates for LOS.
>>43981702
*should say "Isn't really relevant..."
>>43981702
There's no reason why you shouldn't have mentioned your 1st and 2nd ed experience in your first post. I call bullshit.
>>43981710
I always felt like tLOS came out even for converting.
If your model is bigger it can shoot, but be shot by more things. Prone models can't be seen as easily, but also can't see much either.
Also laser pointers should be a thing. They're cool cheap and fun. The only thing really that keeps me from pulling one out in games is everyone would assume I'm a complete anal retentive rules lawyer no fun allowed player, when actually I'm pretty relaxed.
>>43981676
I was winning regularly in 3rd and 4th. I prefer having fun and having a close game desu and the only reason I wasn't winning is I was playing against competitive lists rather than stomping the casual tables.
Right now, that's the attitude you need to play 40k at all desu. I mainly play a 4/5th hybrid these days.
>>43981762
>Laser pointer
Holy fuck, that's smart. Have you been called a WAAC faggot before using one? or are you just assuming this?
>>43981762
Wait, so you put the laser pointer next your models head, and then see if you can get it on an enemy model?
>>43980332
>40k armies should be 1 HQ, 2 Troops, and some trimmings on the side like 5 Terminators and a Predator or whatever.
I agree.
Someone should make a "corehammer 40k" system using 3/4/5th rules and army restrictions. It's boring like it is now.
They've even taken a leaf out of Warmahordes book with these campaign supplements.
>>43981706
Ork list that mimicked an armoured company. I was running 3 "Looted Russ" Battlewagons with grots and KFF Big Meks in (2 of) them as the core of the list. I've heard of variations using the Dreadbash list or running meganobs, but generally the army used the fact that scattering ordanance was still more accurate and better AT than anything else orks got and the ability for deathrollaz to overkill vehicles in the movement phase before everything shoots to take advantage of the closely packed vehicles. The trick was using terrain and other units to avoid meltas hurting your tanks.
>>43981788
>Holy fuck, that's smart.
I bet you guys don't even use line lasers for your wargaming needs.
>>43981762
>I always felt like tLOS came out even for converting.
You can now convert for game advantage. If that sounds like a good idea to you, you are part of the problem.
I just want thousand sons to be half decent. Is tzeentch daemonkin too much to ask for? I haven't played a single game of 7th but that would be enough to get me back in.
>>43981760
Because nobody generally cares about my entire life story. Not trying to impress anyone in any case.
I played orks. Which in RT were cool, then in 2nd all the ork units started getting LOL random which didn't fit my vision for a wargame. Still loved it, but wanted a more tactical feeling game.
Truth is, the game is so huge everyone has a limited perspective anyway. Your impression is greatly limited by the army(s) you own, play against and how often you actually get to play a 3 hour game.
RT has rules for flyers. Yet, we *never* used them.
>>43981788
No, everyone is chill about the game, it could just be a baseless fear.
>>43981860
I find it's extremely obvious when someone is modeling for advantage. You can just not play them after they reveal their WAAC'yness
>>43981803
Yeah, you could do that.
>>43981931
Is that how you do it?
>>43979867
The issue is that the armies are designed so that all units have a strong purpose and work well in tandem. The weaker codexes suffer from stiff design and poorly statted units, forcing them to take very specific lists.
>>43980630
In a nutshell, war has changed. The old 40k was a bit more personal, even with big armies every unit mattered. Now, it just...cluttered. Strategy in the middle of the game doesn't matter as much anymore.
>>43981919
>You can just not play them after they reveal their WAAC'yness
Or play a game with a ruleset not written by untrained monkeys.
>>43979804
Have you ever heard of necrons? I don't think you have
I've had entire shooting phases, as my Tau, whom i've been playing for 13 years by the way, be erased by a Ghost Ark resurrecting about 6 warriors.
>>43981072
What is wrong with the Iron Warriors in 3.5?
>>43982026
They were the flavor of the month. Stupidly broken. Basically what Eldar were in 6th and whatever is in 7th. Codex had a lot of flavor though and it was downhill all the way from there.
>>43981762
>everyone would assume I'm a complete anal retentive rules lawyer no fun allowed player
It's their problem. I just don't want to throw my back from leaning over the table all the damn time checking the LOS, when I can just use a cheap Chinese dollar laser pointer.
Also, TLOS comes even now, but when it was first introduced the rule was that you drew the LOS from the model's eyes to any part of the target. So you had situations where a dude could draw LOS to the enemy, but they couldn't do it back. Now that it's from any part of the model to any other part of a model, it's even. If LOS can be drawn one way, it can be drawn the other.
>>43982026
They had an additional heavy support slot but one less fast attack slot. You can probably imagine how interesting playing against that was.
>>43982026
Obliterators were Elites and not limited when fielding IW (I think they were max. 1 squad for the rest) and they trades 2 Fast slots for 1 extra Heavy, and had access to both a Basilisk and a Vindicator. So, with those two, and two Defilers they had plenty of high str., low AP large blasts (plus Defilers and Basilisk could upgrade for indirect fire), plus lots of Obliterators.
>>43982071
Two less fast attack.
>>43982060
>stupidly broken
Always seemed pretty fluffy to me, no idea it was that bad.
>>43982136
Basically in a 1000 pt army you could fit 6 Oblits, a Basilisk and your standard S5 T5 Flying Daemon Prince. In 1500 you took the rest of the Obliterators and a Defiler or Vindicator. Every other army was one at a Tournament.
>>43982201
And here I was planning to fill up the Heavy Support slots with Predators and a single vindicator because I like tanks. Never was a fan of Defilers.
I wonder how many people went IW because sieges and hazard stripes only to have people assume they were powergamers.
>>43980710
I play drop pod skitarii. Superheavies fear me. A lot. Also 10 combigravs in pods. The face of the tryhard knight player after being tabled turn 1? Priceless
>>43981329
I relied on rail guns and dropping suits. I did like to take a 3 for 1 slot of sniper drones too. Also, I used to take more fire warriors/tanks, they seemed more useful back then.
>>43969290
It's Age of Sigmar without the stigma of playing Age of Sigmar.
>>43981891
Moving the goalposts again. When we're talking about how experience of different generations of warhammer and their appeal, and you're making a point about its quality and back it up with experience, listing all relevant experience is - surprise - relevant.
>>43981107
I have a single old metal terminator. Unfortunately, he doesn't have a proper power fist, just an assault cannon. I don't know if I want to cannibalize one from a space marine power fist, or have him be a badass who got his arm ripped off.
>>43981642
the fact hat there's nothing right about it.
Miniature games should use bases for uniform measurement. Anything else is pure shit.
>>43984217
tLoS puts me at a disadvantage in my group because I like big bulky units but I like it. It makes sense to me more intuitively. You can see it, you can shoot it. I just need to be more concious of cover and put more thought into positioning, not really that big of a deal.
>>43984920
Just out of curiosity: Have you played a wargame with actual LoS rules before?
>>43981526
It's not a change. Guard just finally got a second high Gothic name is all. They're still called the Imperi Guard.
>>43981918
It's probably baseless. Back when TloS was a new thing GW did a run of laser pointers. They sold like hotcakes and for a while most games would feature one.
>>43984920
You are putting thought into pure shit.
start of 5th was the perfect time to pull out for that reason alone.
>>43985740
>buying a GW laser pointer instead of any old one from a dollar shop
GW fanboys really will buy anything
>>43982000
In my experience its the oposite. The emphasis on objectives and scoring them during the game has made manouvering and positioning very important through the whole game,more so than most war games I've played.
Ends up much more tactical than the old fight until one army is all dead approach.
>>43985808
>more so than most war games I've played
Name one. Specifically, name one not by GW.
>>43985797
It wasn't expensive, looked like a scope off a bolter and instead of a dot projected a scope symbol. It's from GWs less retarded days.
>>43985882
warmachine, brikwars and malifaux.
When ever i played them or watched them played most games seemed to just end up in a cluster fuck scrum fight in the middle of the table and were just about who could throw dice(or draw cards) better or who had picked the better card combo instead of tactics.
>>43985994
>malifaux, warmachine
Bullshit. Just bullshit.
>brickwars
Maybe.
For me it's the fact that I can now make a legal (if uncompetitive) army out of three scratch-built models.
WAAAGH da Orks!
>>43985994
Anytime that you have to describe any game as a clusterfuck, it's a sign that you don't know anything about the game to identify things properly or have opinions on
>>43985994
>cluster fuck scrum fight in the middle of the table
On an additional note: I've seen one WMH game like that. It was a battle report of two similar brick lists (Grissel1 vs Grissel2) playing against each other. To the untrained eye it looked like a horrifying car crash in the middle of the table. However, if you knew what's going on you knew that every mm mattered.
>>43985306
I've play tested Infinity, the lack of tLoS threw me off. Being able to shoot models I can't see and the inverse made was weird and screwed with my strategy. I know there's the template card things but I didn't even think to use them when the model was obscured.
>>43986172
>Being able to shoot models I can't see
You can't. That's not how the rules work.
>>43985994
>Malifaux
>not tactical
I'll give you Brikwars, and I'll even concede that Warmahordes games can get pretty scrummy.
But really? Malifaux? Malifaux is Tricky Shit: The Game. Movement shenanigans and action economy are king. If you get bogged down in a big center board punch up you're provably doing it wrong.
>>43986188
well, you can speculative fire grenades.
>>43986229
>grenades
I'm no expert, but I'm fairly certain that in reality a grenade thrown by a guy you can't see can still theoretically kill you.
>>43986256
What the fuck are you talking about? Do you even fucking know what speculative fire even means in Infinity?
>>43986294
Wasn't the point that in Infinity you could (not) shoot at dudes your dudes can't see?
>>43986332
speculative fire let you lob aoe weapons at targets out of sight.
>>43986347
Well yeah, I don't see how that is unrealistic or "weird" as >>43986172 said.
>>43986372
No one brought realism or not weird until you. You just went into a non-sequitor about grenade damage when the discussion was about firing weapons at targets without LOS and actually knowing the rule of the damn game.
>>43986415
This guy >>43986172 mentioned it being weird. I say it isn't. I don't see what your problem is.
>>43986454
that you replied to me about speculative fire when your actual gripe should be toward the >>43986172 about the usage of grenades.
follow the topic at hand
>>43986188
There are models smaller then the LoS templates, so unless I was doing it wrong there are times when you can see the template but not the miniature. Speculative fire I've got no beef with, that makes sense to me.
>>43986708
Well the template represents an average dude in an average pose. Actual minis are going to deviate from that obviously. It takes little imagination to imagine a mini in a ducked pose suddenly not being ducked far enough down to avoid lead poisoning.
>>43981190
>>43981541
Pfft, noob. I had a couple of boxes of RTB01 in my youth.
>>43986805
I get that it's an effective way to balance gameplay while allowing freedom of modelling and that you can narrativisticly justify it. I just prefer being able to tell at a glance whether or not I can hit something without having to check any templates or anything. To me that's worth the disadvantages I get for liking big models.
>>43987614
*had*
I still have my "space orks".
>>43985665
>They're still called the Imperial Guard
Yeah just not in any of the current GW products and old books have been pulled and re-edited to retcon them.
The stupid thing is as many sci-fi soldiers as got made I never saw any called Imperial Guard except the red guys from Star Wars.
>>43981300
The entire Skitarii catalog makes up for all of that
>>43981570
>was not costing them considerable revenue
You mean other than taking away their copyright of certain things?
The problem with chapterhouse, as far as I understood it, was that writing rules for X does not give you blanked copyright to that name across all mediums. So GW had stuff like those spore pods in fluff and in rules, but didn't have production models. So when chapterhouse made their no-spore pods that were called the same name, they technically had a case for claiming for the copyright of that name when it comes to model. They could sue GW for using the name on their models.
Imperial Guard has already been used in miniatures, especially historical miniatures. GW has no claim over it and can't stop anyone from using it. So create a new name and brand everything under that, and bam, you now control the IP again.
>>43982060
They weren't that bad. They were probably* the strongest army, but not so much that they dominated the top tables in the same way.
*I'd put forwards that a well built, well played KoS was stronger. You'd see it on the top tables a bit less often but there was less KoS armies going in. When it came to contesting objectives/table quarters you had that shit wraped up, it was surprsingly resiliant and flat out the most mobile army going. Plus since most compeditive people built las/plas or whathaveyou for 3+ saves it had an easier time once it reached the top tables.
I played IW and Orks (Both KoS and Not) through 3e, but wasn't super compeditive at that stage.
>>43989777
I doubt Abnett and all the others will start using Militarum in their novels
>>43982136
>Always seemed pretty fluffy to me, no idea it was that bad.
Obliterators and Basilisks were difficult to play against.
>>43982201
Basilisk access mattered more in the smaller point games. Since oblits were elites any chaos army could grab 9 of them.Didn't hurt that they themed well into IW though.
>>43982543
That's because they were more useful back then.
>>43990632
Basilisks were fine, the BS4 didn't help them much since they were G-range weapons. Oblits were one of the better units going. Basically the swiss army knife of chaos and tough to kill. I found treating them like high priority mini-vehicles and throwing some Las/Zzap etc. their way asap the best answer.
>>43979750
How does this work, exactly?
>>43981120
Casualty removal from shooting needs to return to owner's choice so I don't have to hide my flamers/characters at the rear.
Pinning needs to be returned to Sniper/Barrage weapons.
Challenges need to just go and stay go.
>>43981268
Too bad that book was so shit I can still write it's only decent list off the top of my head:
2x Lash Princes
3x Vindicators
Put all the other points into Plague Marines.
>>43993417
I like the idea of challenges, they just need to not be mandatory and so punishing if declined. Giving a bonus to combat resolution for the challenger if declined or something.
>>43981788
>Holy fuck, that's smart. Have you been called a WAAC faggot before using one?
Dude, GW sold one when 5th was new.
It's a fully approved GW IDEA.
Anyone wish Decurions were more "units that are soso are now usable" instead of "spam a unit(s) until you get a bonus"?
Question:
This is slightly off topic, but does anyone have a link to an old /tg/ thread talking about a Dark Heresy where one of the characters got really absurd rolls which resulted in him being a silly powerful demon-infused retarded unsanctioned psycher that was also, somehow, unforgettable?
the tau do not and will never belong in the 40k universe
remove tau
REMOVE TAU
>>43996002
REMOVE TAU remove tau
you are worst xeno. you are the xeno idiot you are the xeno smell. return to eye of terror. to our heretic cousins you may come our imperium. you may live in the zoo….ahahahaha ,Horus we will never forgeve you. heretic rascal FUck but fuck asshole xeno stink. Damocles crusade best day of my life. take a bath of dead xeno..ahahahahah
REMOVE, REMOVE XENO FROM PREMISES.
Hope you don't mind the copy pasta
>>43989777
They are called "imperial guard" in the "astra militarum" codex, you idiot
>>43996119
>Having to excuse yourself for this copypasta
>There are newfags browsing RIGHT NOW /tg/ that don't know what this copypasta is
>>43997132
Browsing /tg/ right now*
>This is what happens when you use a laptop mouse
>>43990557
I doubt they have a choice in the matter.
tLoS is terrible. I miss the days when you didn't have to bend over the table every 2 seconds.
>>43993417
I think a compromise needs to be struck on character removal. Let's say hits are assigned to the nearest model as it is currently. However, the owning player decides which hits go to which models. So a tactical squad scores 4 boltgun hits and 2 heavy bolter hits on a squad of storm troopers, and six hits are assigned to the nearest six models, including the meltagun trooper, the sergeant and four regulars. The owner then decides that the meltagunner and sergeant will take boltgun shots (the sergeant then can benefit further from LO,S!) and the remaining two and the heavy bolter shots go to regular squaddies.
(oh yeah, and Chaos 4th ed really was pure shit, especially before the daemon book was released and we only had neutral daemon and greater daemon rules. absolute travesty)
>>43972932
>>43974501
>>43979784
Lookit these butthurt gun-worshiping fun-haters.
Look at them.
Look at them and WAAAGH!!
>>43969290
you could say the same thing for 5th and 6th edition...arguably 4th too.
>>43980920
both armies rely on very specific lists to have a chance at dealing with that. even then you'll need to be very lucky with rolling.
>>43980976
I'll remind you that Boom Bombs are S7 AP2, so not likely to do a good goddamned thing to 13/13/12 or wtf-ever Knights are.
Also worth mentioning is that on a chart roll of 3, both the superheavy & the AV10 flier take a S9 hit. On a 10-12, you can shoot rear armor of like 11 or 12 with your S6 gunz, oh fukken boy!
Tankbustas are the other option who will get blasted out of their nerfed transport before they reach the thing. But let's pretend they get to the fight: still assaulting first, but hitting last against a thing two-thirds the size & price of a Stompa *before* it gets a stomp attack at the same time as their normal melta bomb attacks.
Fuck, I miss double initiative on the charge.
>>43981047
They frequently have no dudes or vigorously protect their dudes with said half-table-dominating abominations.
>>43981526
Haha. Just wait until you see the name changes for Fantasy when it turned into Age of Sigmar.
IP protection insanity.
>>43998976
>Fuck, I miss double initiative on the charge.
Genuinely the first time I've ever heard of this outside of Fantasy, is this a 2nd ed feature?
>>43999039
Is there a big list of all the horrid name changes somewhere? I feel like masochism for some reason, call it the winter weather.
>>43981642
Even in fluff terms, tLOS is garbage: you're going to see all the way across a battlefield covered in smoldering wreckage, smog, dirt, explosions, and roving war machines, plus whole moving companies of soldiers?
Ain't an auspex unit the Emperor's Finest Artificers can design that'll cut through the Fog of War.
>>43981838
I wonder what butt-blasted designer at GeeDubs got his superior army's ass handed to him by Deffrollas for being bad at the game so hard he pushed to nerf them into worthlessness.
Fuck, who looked at Orks and said, "Deez niggaz need less S10 & anti-armor!"?
There are problems with the core rules, yes, but the true abomination that shatters enjoyability into a million bloody shards is the army lists. Let's review the codex design process:
>each codex team was for a time expressly banned from talking to other teams
>each codex team is presented with a model
>they then attempt to make rules for that model
>they don't do proper playtesting, rather they test the model in a vacuum instead of an actual game setting
>they repeat this process for any existing models they desire to change
>they have the temerity to sell the result for money
Parts of this process have changed in the past few months--most notably as far as I know there is communication between codex teams now.
>hurr gee dubs does it on purpose
Look at the Gorkanaut. Look at it. They sunk thousands of dollars into making a new model and made it suck balls. They made the entire army surrounding it suck balls. Was that on purpose? Is there a conspiracy by GW to deter you from buying their models? Also, it's not so much power creep as a drunk man bouncing off the walls on either side of an alley. Power creep requires there to be a trend in something, and GW has for years just been staggering between "unusable garbage" to "banned in every tournament" and back again. Sometimes in the same fucking release.
>>43999126
Who knows what mental inbred logic flies in Dub's design rooms. Perhaps having an army that sucks and is "unpredictable" (lol) satisfies some weird ideal about the world works or something. Orks are based on football yobs, so maybe it's a statement from one group of british society against another? Maybe the (unexpressed and thus useless) intent of Orks is to act as a hard mode for experienced players? Or it could just all be a very lame joke.
>>43999081
Off of the top of my head:
Skeletons -> Deathrattlers
Vampires -> Deathshamblers
Dwarfs -> Duardin
Elfs -> Aelfs
Dryads -> Sylvaneth
Lizardmen -> Seraphon
Orcs -> Orrucs
Goblins -> Grots
Ogres -> Ogors
Trolls -> Troggoths
Giants -> Gargants
There's undoubtedly a lot more than that.
>>43999066
I don't remember the edition, but the 6 points for an Ork Boy was to cover their shit shooting & susceptibility to assault while trying to assault others.
Ork characters had access to more gear to boost leadership & saves; I doubled if you rolled below the # of Boyz in the charging squad; you could mix slug gas & shootas in a squad; choppas limited the best save you could take against them to 4+; LD=# of Boyz in squad, so functional, fluffy fearlessness; and Ramshackle kept Trukks both fun and useful.
Now our "fearlessness" can result in squabbling amongst ourselves to effect inevitable self-inflicted casualties, all for the low low price of halting the game to roll on a randumb table to see if the mob runs away, regardless.
>>43997873
size categories were great. This model is size 2, any size 1 model behind it has cover or can't be shot, I can't remember. it can hide behind size 2 terrain and you can't shoot it. Half behind and you get cover. just draw a line looking down at the table and it's all sorted in a second. no bending over, no arguing, no bullshit.
>>43990085
Neither GW not Chapterhouse could claim ownership of generic terms. GW overstepped what they can have protection on.
The Chapterhouse case made it clear that 3rd party companies can use GW product names in their descriptions, as long as they don't appear to be passing their models off as GW-made. For example, making shoulder pads and calling them 'Space Marine shoulder pads' could be argued to cause confusion. What they can be called is 'Shoulder Pads suitable to fit GW Space Marines'. That's exactly what Chapterhouse changed their descriptions to during/after the trial and what other manufacturers have been doing.
GW rebranding imperial guard to 'Astra Militarum' doesn't change a thing, a company can still use this name in the manner used above. GW seem to think changing the name to something unique means no one can even reference it, but this is wrong. But frankly a lot of the way legal people from GW presented themselves in the trial gives the impression they don't have a great understanding of IP law. Alan Merritt, their head of IP, was corrected when giving testimony because he conflated the different protections given by forms of IP. I assume they were briefed before trial but he still went in claiming that a drawing of something gave them full design rights to a model of it which simply isn't true, among other issues.
Not to say Chapterhouse were entirely innocent, but GW were forced to drop or lost on three quarters of their original claims. They just threw everything they could as CHS in an attempt to see what stuck and clearly didn't know what they could claim ownership of. This is the same company that just before the trial wrote to previously employed artists asking them to retroactively hand over rights to drawings they had done for the company years prior, because GW couldn't prove they own they things they claim to.
They made a meal of the Chapterhouse case, it's practically a one man company that took them 2-3 years to crush.
>>43999220
>each codex team was for a time expressly banned from talking to other teams
Why would they do this?
>>43999220
>>43999221
I'm OK with the joke. I also can't attribute to malfeasance anything that can be so easily & clearly blamed on incompetence.
The goddamned fluff talks about Gork-/Morkanauts soloing Knights, but it's an almost literally impossible scenario on the table top. S10AP1 attacks won't do shit to a superheavy, even if they were another 100 points & themselves a superheavy platform. A Knight can and has and will solo a charging Stompa because of S:D melee & no Initiative boost--that's for half the fucking points.
>>43999230
Man, they were really worried about that copyright huh? It's like an entire edition of Imperial Guard -> Astra Miliwhatever.
>>43999230
>Skeletons
Oh my fuck I'm actually dying. Games Workshop, leading miniatures game company of the world, is actually paranoid about legal action over a fundamental part of the human body, a common and mundane word that every five year old knows. Maybe while they were desperately retarding the spelling of Orcs and Ogres they decided "hey let's change everything, then we can claim consistency as if it matters!". Lawdy lawd.
>>43999238
Oh, it was Ork only? That makes sense, Orks definitely needed the +1 Initiative from Furious Charge back in 4th.
Everything about Ork pyschology on the tabletop is stupid, from both a game balance and fluff perspective. I wouldn't mind if they gave Orks a lower base Ld but went back to 4th's bonus Ld for larger squads, with Nobz and Warbosses counting as two and three models and granting rerolls and Stubborn respectively. Add in a small bonus for each Ork unit within 6" and LoS of another, 12" if that unit contains the warboss and we have the terrifying mass of the lore with an efficacy nearer the current points..
>>43999311
Absolutely this, frankly I think it should be a stat or universal characteristic like Infantry/Jump Infantry and such. Then you can model guys kneeling down and they don't suddenly always count as being kneeling under all circumstances ever, two identical units of assault marines with one in the air and one on land aren't wildly different in ability to block shots and so on. Units that have gone to ground count as one size smaller.
>>43999230
>Deathrattlers
>>43999539
Yeah, the ultimate truth is that most of the evil, senseless, selfish and wasteful acts of this world stem from the stupidity of their performers. People and groups are usually bad because they can't hack good. Games Workshop is a bad company, it has bad ideas of how the world works and makes stupid decisions as a result. A lot of shitty species can survive in nature for a long time by sitting in a niche but change is inevitable.
>>43999404
>Neither GW not Chapterhouse could claim ownership of generic terms.
Mycetic Spore, I believe, was not a generic term.
>GW rebranding imperial guard to 'Astra Militarum' doesn't change a thing
Yes it does. Because they did it first, thus they have the copyright of it. Yes, I can say "bits suitable for astra militarum", but the major problem with the spores was that GW didn't have models for them while chapterhouse had. Thus chapterhouse was the first to make models named "Mycetic Spores" and could claim copyright of them in model form.
That's the same reason GW scrapped Damnatus, because according to the IP laws where the movie was made, the makers would had ownership of it and in a way of GW IP, and there was apparently nothing that could be done. So, instead of handing their IP out, they just C&D'd it.
>took them 2-3 years to crush
They seem to be still in business.
>>43999230
>Deathrattlers
This is where I draw the fucking line.
>>43999689
Chapterhouse have been very quiet, a number of people have had orders not fulfilled and no responses to emails or facebook messages. They appear to be in business but I'm not sure the owner is at home. Maybe there's family issues or something else going on.
>>43982060
Eldar were always pretty dope. In 3. and 4. edition their wraithlords has t8, a 3+ armor save, ccw that ignored all armor and made their attacks s10, and had s8 shooting that too ignore all armor saves. For around 120 points...
>>44000115
Well of course they're going under, just when I'm about to put some money down on those drop pod doors. Fuck my life, m8.
>>44000266
Unkillable tanks were the real problem with Eldar in 4E. Thank god 5E fixed that.
>>44000486
You mean 6E?
>>43998796
Fuck yeah bruv, let me just declare a Crusade of Wrath and i'll be right with you
7e is best e
>>44000266
Died to sniper rifles like a bitch though.
Just like every other MC in that edition.
“It is the purest folly to believe that an individual can save Armageddon. Wars are not won by heroes, they are won by firepower and force, and the application of strategy and tactics.”
-Commisar Yarrick
Then tell me Commisar, why are GW's games getting further away from such tactics and closer towards individual poster boys that don't actually win wars?
>>44004593
Not really. Sniper Rifles didn't have rending until 5th so it was less useful than just shooting missiles.
>>44005000
Because GW forgot that herohammer was a derisive term, and thinks that you need individual characters to connect with on the tabletop.
>>43999238
>I don't remember the edition, but the 6 points for an Ork Boy was to cover their shit shooting & susceptibility to assault while trying to assault others.
Oh wow. Sod off, 4th edition Ork Boyz were ridiculously overpowered for their cost. They could outshoot and outfight Space Marines. 4+ cover was everywhere so their 6+ save would rarely come into play. Hidden power klaw nobz, Fearless with over 10 models.
All this while my IG were stuck either not moving and firing at 24", or moving and only being able to fire at 12".
Of course, both IG and Orks are in terrible states right now so go figure
