I am currently modeling a Gloriously Ridiculous Pirate Space Ship and looking for sources of inspiration to add to it.
So time for a PIRATE SHIPS IN SPACE thread.
>>43784720
>>43784743
or atmosphere is fine too, just has to be flying. After all, who doesn't love a good Zeppelin.
http://www.monsterattackteam.com/wp-content/uploads/2014/11/harlock_1.jpg
http://oi40.tinypic.com/27zyuxi.jpg
>>43784844
when I watched that movie my first through when it emerged in the flashback was "Damn dark matter is good at remodeling!"
bones are always in style.
the Reavers had some nice style going on.
>>43785092
They aren't space pirates. They're 'Space Sociopaths' / 'Space Homicidal Maniacs'.
>>43786000
oh its gunna be one of thooose threads
>>43784863
Really?
>>43784720
>>43784743
>>43784774
That is a beautiful space penis.
>>43786000
aren't all murderers/criminals mentally ill?
Moretsu Pairetsu had pretty piraty ships. The Bentenmaru is a beauty, that triple cross ship in the end is a killer, and there's a bunch more pirate ships in battle. And the battles are great. Not Starship Operators great, but still way above the benchmark Itano Circus.
>>43790483
Some are just desperate.
>>43790483
Of course not, and I'm not sure what kind of culture would lead you to believe something like that.
>>43790483
Whilst the prison population does contain a higher percentage of mentally ill individuals than the general population, most of that illness is personality disorders which could be managed with proper theraputic treatment or medication.
>>43784720
So, Free energy space ships, i assume? These ships need literally no fuel or maintenance or anything.
Otherwise, the whole thing would collapse. Piracy only works when the only costs are a wooden boat and some guns. It doesn't really translate to space, so you're going to need a LOT of caveats and ass-pulls to make the setting coherent.
So, the pirates den is a post-scarcity utopia as a necessity of having easy space travel. Why do they pirate?
>>43790483
I'm sure you've pirated movies or games, are you mentally ill?
>>43787701
I just watched that documentry. How could such beauty be kept from us? I hope it does adapted to animation, I'd watch it in a heartbeat.
Still, even to failure we say "Yes!"
Anyway, I've always enjoyed the 40k Chaos Ships. They have the right amount of ridiculousness from an outside perspective, while still being something recognizably frightening.
>>43790989
Only a madman, like jodorowski, would think that his "dune" movie would have been anything other than a trainwreck.
>>43791008
No Shut up. Dalì would've been the Emperor of atte Galaxy and the movie would've been awesome.
AWESOME
W
E
S
O
M
E
>>43790845
Solar sails exist as a technology we have recently discovered, running off of radiation emitted by stars and background cosmic radiation. Try harder.
>>43791454
You wouldn't say that if you were aware of the limitations of solar sails.
>>43784930
Much like this Anon, I think the Arcadia of Space Pirate Captain Harlock would be a good source of inspiration. Though I prefer the newer CGI version.
>>43790857
Breaking the law is always a mental illness, citizen. Report to the nearest therapy center immediately.
>>43790845
>So, the pirates den is a post-scarcity utopia as a necessity of having easy space travel.
This is a silly thing to complain about. So every sci fi setting with easy space travel is a post scarcity utopia? I think not.
Regardless, many pirates in the age of sail did it for the independence (often from their former employers against whom they'd mutinied), and some were privateers sponsored by governments.
If space travel is already commonplace, and there are means to intercept a spaceship (obviously near impossible in reality, but this is sci-fi) then why not get valuable cargo for free?
>>43792096
>This is a silly thing to complain about. So every sci fi setting with easy space travel is a post scarcity utopia? I think not.
The energy costs of space require that if such a thing is commonplace, then energy would have to be practically infinite and spaceships would be so well built as to never require maintenance.
>Regardless, many pirates in the age of sail did it for the independence (often from their former employers against whom they'd mutinied), and some were privateers sponsored by governments.
Yes because the horizon exists on earth. No such paralell can be drawn in space. Not to mention that they could not live on their own, not without a massive starting investment. You can't just build a spaceship out of wood and canvas.
>If space travel is already commonplace, and there are means to intercept a spaceship (obviously near impossible in reality, but this is sci-fi) then why not get valuable cargo for free?
What possible cargo could be valuable in space? Ore you could get from anywhere? Energon cubes you don't need? Rum you could just synthesize? People have been discussing this for decades now. Piracy as an economic concept doesn't work in space. If the space pirates can sack ships, then the space patrol can do what we're doing to ISIS. If pirates have to account for remass and oxygen and other supplies, then no raiding mission would provide a net gain to them. There's no point. If you have a sustainable pirate den, you'd be much better off trying to be a trader of whatever your setting deems valuable in space.
>>43792357
>The energy costs of space require that if such a thing is commonplace, then energy would have to be practically infinite and spaceships would be so well built as to never require maintenance.
I think the point he is trying to make is that you're expecting space opera to operate under the rules of hard sci-fi.
>>43792392
I can't be the only one who thinks figuring things out is better than just making shit up.
>>43792392
So why even with the pretense of a metal ship? Because he likes that aesthetic? If we don't care about reality, why have sealed ships at all? Why not open deck space boats made of anti-gravity wood and everyone breathes space air and it's a pleasant temp and pressure?
or why not skip the pretense and just stick with the age of sail, if that's all the story you want to tell?
>>43792459
>If it's not going to be absolutely 100% realistic why even bother having any kind of rules or internal consistency?
>why not skip the pretense and just stick with the age of sail, if that's all the story you want to tell?
Because space is cool and scratches a different sort of itch than high fantasy. Chill the fuck out.
>>43792514
>If it's not going to be absolutely 100% realistic why even bother having any kind of rules or internal consistency?
Surely you would agree that without any limits to hold you to besides your own aesthetic choice, that such extremes are perfectly reasonable?
>Because space is cool
But it's not a story about Space. It's about The Caribbean, except with a black background. If it's to be a story about Space, you ought to actually incorporate at least a few of the unique properties of that setting, which are all promptly ignored to make this anachronistic setting.
So to me, the whole thing seems pointless. What do you gain from setting pirates in space aside from cheap aesthetic appeal?
>>43792433
I doubt you work out the exact fictional exotic physics behind every single element of a setting, because that's just not interesting. If you do no explanation then you go int he styl of "That's the magic box, it makes the ship go woosh", which serves the narrative function but may be a little handwavey. About the most detail that you need is about Mass Effect level: "There's this exotic material that does these things when we do this stuff to it", and the way it works is coherently explained and internally consistent. That's all you need. You start explaining the precise mechanisms of everything in your setting then your setting turns into Mahouka.
>>43792562
You get to include aliens
>>43792583
>because that's just not interesting.
A subjective statement at best.
>If you do no explanation then you go int he styl of "That's the magic box, it makes the ship go woosh", which serves the narrative function but may be a little handwavey
You'd have to be pretty lazy to do that. I know it's the norm, but it's still lazy.
>About the most detail that you need is about Mass Effect level: "There's this exotic material that does these things when we do this stuff to it", and the way it works is coherently explained and internally consistent. That's all you need. You start explaining the precise mechanisms of everything in your setting then your setting turns into Mahouka.
Right. I was trying to get a conversation started on what magical mcguffin enables space piracy to be a viable pastime.
If you're going to put it into space, then use space. If you're going to put it in space and then ignore everything about space, then fuck you.
>>43792590
Big whoop. Thematically no different from finding natives.
>>43792562
But there are limits, specifically what people can suspend their disbelief for. Some folk just can't accept anything that doesn't run entirely on known real life mechanics, and that's fine for them, but they shouldn't act like it isn't the case that for most people there are degrees of realism.
>But it's not a story about Space. It's about The Caribbean, except with a black background
Right, because there have only ever been pirates in the Caribbean. Nowhere else where there is trade.
Look, real space travel is boring, difficult, stupidly dangerous and largely pointless. It's scope for fiction is limited. 'Space ocean' type treatment offers a lot more possibility. Soft Sci fi allows you a lot more wiggle room with what to do.You might as well say Star Wars should just have been a fantasy movie (because it was written exactly like one), as if you could have gotten half the cool stuff in that move in a low fantasy epic instead of a space opera.
>>43792665
>Right. I was trying to get a conversation started on what magical mcguffin enables space piracy to be a viable pastime.
Because if space travel is common. And if the means exist to waylay a ship without destroying. Then it's not a stretch to assume that there would be criminals willing to steal from traders.
Since I forgot earlier,
>Not to mention that they could not live on their own, not without a massive starting investment. You can't just build a spaceship out of wood and canvas.
Uh, most pirates didn't build their own ships.
They stole them (either from under their own previous captain or by capture). As also they stole provisions.
Because they're pirates?
>>43792703
>Right, because there have only ever been pirates in the Caribbean. Nowhere else where there is trade.
The caribbean was about the only place in history where that shit was able to work for a while. The chinese pirates got fucking raped by like two british ships. Because pirates, like terrorists, cannot have a greater industrial base than a nation. So if pirates exist in space, they will have a flotilla arriving shortly to nuke them into atoms. The lack of a horizon in space and the way heat works means that there is no hiding, no safe place. You steal from one ship and not only are not not going to make a profit, you will get nuked within the year.
>Look, real space travel is boring, difficult, stupidly dangerous and largely pointless.
Which is why "space" is not a good setting for pirates or other atavistic forms of fiction. Star Wars is a fantasy movie, everyone knows that.
The choices are Real Space, which is largely incompatible with our archaic storytelling and thus requires New Ideas, which are difficult, or Fake Space, which does nothing differently from the setting it is aping and is very, very easy. WW2 dogfighting doesn't become more interesting because it's in space, nor does pirates and boats. Are there really people who will suddenly become interested in a setting because it takes place in a completely made up depiction of outer space?
>>43792806
>Because if space travel is common. And if the means exist to waylay a ship without destroying. Then it's not a stretch to assume that there would be criminals willing to steal from traders.
If all of that is true, then armed escorts which greatly overpower any disorganized NGO will also be common.
Nothing worth stealing won't be protected by more trouble than the shit is actually worth, if space travel is easy. Again, due to the simple fact that Governments have more resources than NGOs.
>>43790845
It's simple.
>Disagreement with one space nation's politics.
>Revenge against the winning side of a war.
>Your space colony doesn't have access to the "free energy" tech and wants a piece of the pie at any cost.
>You're a goddamn thief and a general failure at being a legitimate citizen, and this is what you do.
>You're a vigilante. You strike out at the corruption in your region of space like a phantom in the night...
There's options, boss. Take off the fedora it's cutting off the circulation to your brain.
>>43792850
Big companies with big ships and big money could afford escorts, but they may be limited in terms of how much weaponry they're allowed to have.
But why go after big targets in a setting where a small independent trader has a shot (as they do in many sci fi settings)?
>>43792822
Space is big. Big enough that it's impossible to keep it all locked down in a setting with interstellar travel. And if you have the means to do that then it'd be simple to ramraid a ship and jump through a couple empty systems to evade the authorities. Which in Elite Dangerous (another setting where piracy works that I have on my mind at the moment) takes about five minutes.
>>43792970
>Disagreement with one space nation's politics.
>Revenge against the winning side of a war.
>Your space colony doesn't have access to the "free energy" tech and wants a piece of the pie at any cost.
Pirates are enemies of mankind. You can go be a heinlein space libertarian, but the moment you attack trade you're fucked, and everyone would surely know it. You'd be Somalia. How well is that working?
>There's options, boss. Take off the fedora it's cutting off the circulation to your brain.
You're special.
>Big companies with big ships and big money could afford escorts, but they may be limited in terms of how much weaponry they're allowed to have.
Not likely. If ships get attacked and the trade is valuable then the local governement/corp will send whatever it takes to ensure safe trade. But you just shot piracy in the foot. If it takes a large corp to have armed escorts, then from where do pirates get their initial capital?
>But why go after big targets in a setting where a small independent trader has a shot (as they do in many sci fi settings)?
Because in space, nobody is going to pay to ship things that aren't actually valuable, especially when any decent colony is already self-sufficient and trade of things other than one-off luxury items is nonexistent.
>Space is big. Big enough that it's impossible to keep it all locked down in a setting with interstellar travel
Depends entirely on the method of magic ftl. All you have to do is have armed trade ships or have armed escorts for all trade ships that trade something of value, which isn't much and if the pirate base is already self sufficient then it's not going to need the trader's shit anyway.
How can these issues be circumvented in any way other than waving our hands?
>>43793125
>Pirates are enemies of mankind. You can go be a heinlein space libertarian, but the moment you attack trade you're fucked, and everyone would surely know it
>What is privateering?
Do you even Moretsu Space Pirates?
>>43793141
The costs of spaceship ownership in a universe that is not a post-scarcity utopia makes privateering as much of a non-start as piracy, especially since there wouldn't be pirates for them to fight.
And no, i'm not into lolicon so i haven't seen that cartoon.
>>43793125
>from where do pirates get their initial capital
BY. STEALING. IT.
Because again, y'know. Pirates.
> All you have to do is have armed trade ships
Having weapons does not make a ship combat capable. You've either got a cargo hold with guns or a warship with a hold.
>armed escorts
You don't even need to destroy escorts to loot a ship. If you can keep them tied up long enough then you can just smash and grab (Elite again). Or, (Moretsu this time), your piracy could revolve entirely around electronic warfare. That sounds more like your particular cup of tea, actually.
>and if the pirate base is already self sufficient then it's not going to need the trader's shit anyway.
Why do you have this notion that pirates need to have their own base? Anarchic or independent or unregulated ports exist. Hell, even now there are plenty of places with corrupt authorities willing to look the other way.
>>43793248
>The costs of spaceship ownership in a universe that is not a post-scarcity utopia makes privateering as much of a non-start as piracy
But now you're just making proclamations about how much you think things should cost. Elite starts you of with a little one man multipurpose ship with some basic equipment and a small cargo hold. It's worth about 40k credits, but you're implied to have got it on loan. And you earn your way up from there.
>>43793268
>BY. STEALING. IT.
If they stole enough money and equipment to be self-sufficient, why pirate? If they have materials and maintenance upkeep, then raiding ship for their Space Wine isn't going to do anything but speed up their losses.
>Having weapons does not make a ship combat capable. You've either got a cargo hold with guns or a warship with a hold.
Nuclear weapons makes armoring ships a waste of energy.
>You don't even need to destroy escorts to loot a ship. If you can keep them tied up long enough then you can just smash and grab (Elite again). Or, (Moretsu this time), your piracy could revolve entirely around electronic warfare. That sounds more like your particular cup of tea, actually.
Elite is a bad game. The entire universe makes zero sense, so it's a bad example to keep bringing up. You would not be able to get within 100,000km without being destroyed. ECCM works just as well as ECM, and ECM is pretty shit because of the whole inverse square law and space being so big. Cartoons and video games are not good examples to draw from. They don't care about details either.
>Why do you have this notion that pirates need to have their own base?
Because ISIS wouldn't be welcome most places either.
>Anarchic or independent or unregulated ports exist
And due to their economically isolated nature, they would probably not be able to support berthing and repairing incredibly complex starships.
It just doesn't work. Not in any setting that doesn't use magic deliberately and completely discards the notion of credulity.
>>43793351
Nothing is actually traded in Elite, except for what players move.
You do know that a video game is designed for personal enjoyment rather than setting verisimilitude? Elite, like most "space sims" takes the lazy low road of simply sweeping the majority of details under the rug. What do most traders have? Ore that would be worth less than ten grand in today's dollars, and biowaste that's not even valuable.
It's a bad example. You can do better.
>>43790845
Oh fuck off. Nobody is impressed when you pooh-pooh sci-fi tropes.
>>43793432
Look, I'm trying but I'm at a loss here. I could sit here all night going back and forth with me trying to give plausible excuses and you moving goalposts, but I don't want to because it just makes me irritated. I don't understand you. Why is it a problem for you that fiction isn't you perceive to be realistic? Reality is fucking boring, that's why we have fiction in the first place. But fiction inevitably draws upon reality as a point of reference, so it maintains some concessions to it to trick the mind into accepting it (suspension of disbelief).
>>43793478
So, to take your example, a sidewinder unmodded can hold 10 tons of cargo. Assuming you mined or somehow got ten tons of Iron Ore, at the 2015 rate of JUST ONE planet's sources of iron, ore costs 56 dollars per dry ton. SO your glorious shipment will earn you a cool 600 bucks, before expenses.
How much did you say the ship cost? 32k? Boy that's a lot of trips to pay it off. Hope you don't need to, you know, eat and pay for oxygen. That'd really cut into your profits.
It's the same for everything on the periodic table. When you have a whole galaxy of resources, resources become nearly worthless. Piracy becomes worthless. Trading becomes worthless. Stellar nucleosynthesis and it's even distribution of the same elements everywhere destroys interstellar trade.
>>43793527
Space is a setting that i like, and it is never depicted accurately. Just once, it would be nice to see a setting in space that's actually in space, and not just a cut and paste of another setting because the author is too lazy to think up new ideas or learn about esoteric topics.
Can you imagine if an author cared about accuracy? His stories MUST be awful!
>>43793432
>If they stole enough money and equipment to be self-sufficient, why pirate?
Not that guy, but are you really that dense? Pirates don't have to act super logically and do it for revenge, religion or something else. Or they might be privateers.
>Nuclear weapons makes armoring ships a waste of energy
I'm pretty sure every colony would be against arming every space trucker with nukes. Or maybe they run with nukes, like project Orion. And not even nukes destroy everything everywhere, you still should get that physical payload pretty much right next to a ship relative to units that are used in space.
Don't really care about Elite
>Because ISIS wouldn't be welcome most places either.
You're not (necessarily) ISIS in space, you could be freelancer that buys from bases that said space ISIS run, among others.
>And due to their economically isolated nature, they would probably not be able to support berthing and repairing incredibly complex starships.
Maybe it was designed to be repaired with hammer and duct tape. And weren't we previously living in post scarcity society? 3D--Printers and shit can fix the ship, but that real wood can only be grown on certain planets and it makes really good bed posts or something.
>It just doesn't work. Not in any setting that doesn't use magic deliberately and completely discards the notion of credulity.
Are you sure you're on the right board?
I'm not sure such settings even exist that really fill your arbitrary demands that "realistic setting" should fill.
I'm sure some people said the same thing about the concept of smartphones or PCs before they were real things.
>>43793833
>Not that guy, but are you really that dense? Pirates don't have to act super logically and do it for revenge, religion or something else. Or they might be privateers.
So then the galaxy's only pirates last about a fortnight before they get bombed.
>I'm pretty sure every colony would be against arming every space trucker with nukes.
Not more than they're against the death of their own people. What's different about nukes than any other weapon? If private citizens of any kind can even get ahold of weapons, it's inevitable.
>Don't really care about Elite
It was really disappointing.
>You're not (necessarily) ISIS in space, you could be freelancer that buys from bases that said space ISIS run, among others.
Aiding and abetting known felons is a crime. Shipping shit to ISIS would make people just as mad as saying you were in their ranks.
>Maybe it was designed to be repaired with hammer and duct tape. And weren't we previously living in post scarcity society? 3D--Printers and shit can fix the ship, but that real wood can only be grown on certain planets and it makes really good bed posts or something.
Then, aside from very temporary fits of revenge that will be responded to with absolute deadly force, there is no niche for pirates to exist in. Wood is cheaper than spaceships and lives. Any sensible person would buy it.
>Are you sure you're on the right board?
/tg/ has as much of a content theme or focus as /b/. Literally anything goes here as long as you dishonestly pretend it has to do with traditional games.
Not everyone has a shit GM that just makes everything up as he goes along.
>>43794285
Nevermind.
>>43794307
That's a webship.
>>43794639
See now this is fine. It doesn't pretend that it's taking place in real space.
>>43793916
Not the anon you're blathering on about, but seriously what the fuck are you even on about?
>Post-scarcity society
>Factions at war, call off war for [x] reason
>factions still hate on another obviously
>factions hire mercenary groups to harass the enemy's colonies and trade hubs
>mercenary groups paid to go deep into territory and raid
It's not hard to think of something like this. You're moving goalposts because you just think that space HAS to be in a post-scarcity society. Considering we have that EM Drive that's somehow working on a scale that, allegedly, could propel a spacecraft MUCH faster, that isn't even necessarily true.
In case you move the goalpost on that, they could be hoping to use space colonization, thanks to tech like the EM Drive (or Mass Effect's titular manipulation of Element Zero), to reach post-scarcity. You aren't even guaranteed to find infinite resources in space, so mankind begins colonizing to find these resources. After a while, the focus of space travel could move from "find resources to sustain population" to "find places to put population." Pirates as we know them could exist as the criminal element, working in black markets and shit.
>>43794814
>>factions hire mercenary groups to harass the enemy's colonies and trade hubs
>>mercenary groups paid to go deep into territory and raid
>nobody's that stupid and the war breaks out again.
>Considering we have that EM Drive
OH FUCK LOL. That's a good one. Good troll. Perfect impression of a retard from reddit.
>>43793916
>>43793432
You think there won't be crime in the future because everything's going to be free? Nobody's going to bother stealing anything because they'll be able to make it themselves, instantly, so time or effort will not be a consideration.
Nobody will ever consider stealing a canister of He3 because well, anyone can just build a massive city sized regolith reprocessing facility fed by several hundred giant robot miners over the course of a decade. Nope, that canister has no inherent value over any random rock you pick off the ground.
>>43794814
Uh, you need to lay off the kool-aid. The EM drive, which cannot work, uses shitloads more energy for less thrust than a comparable ion thruster. The EM drive doesn't exist, and it wouldn't change anything even if it did.
Stop acting like a flat earther while holding the pretense of science.
>>43784720
>>43784743
>>43784774
https://www.artstation.com/artist/millenia
https://www.artstation.com/artist/karanak
https://www.artstation.com/artist/snefer
Here's your lifetime supply of greebles.
I'd suggest starting off with some tutorials first, OP.
What software are you using?
>>43794939
I have been saying that any setting that makes private ownership of spaceships a possibility carries with it the penalty that making such a thing abundantly available requires a certain type of economy, and that economy would by its very nature preclude any chance of piracy or trading.
It's a non-start. Science fiction has nothing to do with reality.
>>43794973
You're insane if you think commodities markets are going to go away just because somebody sets foot on an other planet. Ultimately not everyone will produce goods at the same rate of efficiency and there will be differences in prices. Further, if something requires infrastructure to make then someone out there will want that thing without paying for that infrastructure.
Replicators are not reality, "nano technology" will not give you everything you want.
>>43793651
His stories are hard sci fi. Which means that they're interesting fod for though, but terrible actual stories because they're too busy masterbating over their efforts to maintain accurate physics.
Fountains of Paradise is a very important work that introduced the concept of the space elevator to the world. But fuck me was the actual story boring. I can't remember an damn thing about it besides the protagonist being called Morgan and having a piece of monofilament wire. I can't for the life of me recall what acutally happened in it.
All hard sci fi is like this. Here's a fun exercise, read From Earth To The Moon. It reads exactly like all these stories, flush with its own effort and commitment to scientific accuracy, except time has marched on and rendered it quaint and laughable.
>>43794474
Still looks awesome. Plus OP might not mind the difference.
>>43794888
>more goal post shifting
It's a setting where post-scarcity factions go to war. If they're SO GREAT that they conquer all scarcity and are so great as to have no crime, why the fuck would they be at war if they weren't capable of being stupid?
>>43794943
I will openly admit I did fuck-all research on it, hence use of the word allegedly. Even if the EM Drive doesn't exist, if some magical breakthrough like that occurs it wouldn't be a leap of logic to assume that they'd use this newly easy form of space travel to try and hit post-scarcity. You can call me a "flat-earther" and ad-hom my point, but it still stands:
Space travel is not restricted to a post-scarcity society. A post-scarcity society would have it easiest, yea, but that doesn't mean ONLY they could do it. Just because you go to space doesn't mean you've accomplished all sorts of other shit.
>>43792459
>Because he likes that aesthetic?
yes, that is exactly why, and there is nothing wrong with it.
>>43784720
Ship looks super cool anon, but I have a few nitpicks if you will.
The entire ship has a very blocky industrial look, that while it operates fine on its own, clashes with the very smoothed and rounded skull/crossbones. the whole front of the ship is in fact pretty batten compared to the rest. Consider sprucing it up a little.
