Could a Kingdom that lives near a desert make strong use of heavy Infantry?
>>43622262
How heavy we talkin senpai?
>>43622262
Does it have access to whatever material they need to equip heavy infantry?
If so, yes.
>>43622262
Kataphaktos were a thing in quite desert countries. More heavy cavalry than heavy infantry but yes. Moors/Arabs/Whatever you want to call them used to wear chainmail. Better to be a little tired than a little dead.
>>43622317
I think he's asking how effective heavy infantry would be in the sorta uneven terrain and Heat
>>43622262
Heavy cavalry would make more sense I think.
Carrying all that shit would be the real mitigating factors, and if they have horses to carry it for them, they may as well be riding them.
>>43622262
Standar combat equipment of a modern soldier weights more than a set of plate armor and you don't hear about massive deaths due to fatigue in Iraq/Afghanistan. Yes, we have better logistics, but still, you can carry quite a heavy load if you are trained.
They'd be fine in battle, but you'd really want to mount them up for marching long distance, unless they have supernatural endurance.
>>43622262
Realistically? Yeah, no problem. It goes against the standard themes but theres nothing that would really stop it
>>43622262
They simply don't need it.
>>43622397
It'd give them a massive edge against plebs that can't handle the heat. Their infantry would be basically invincible.
>>43622343
You can just write cataphracts.
>>43622379
It'd be more the fact that being inside plate mail would cook you inside-out.
It's like sitting in a giant metal can situated in the desert, that metal is going to heat up.
Would an armor like in the OP retain the heat and turns itself into a small oven slowly cooking the guy wearing it? If so, anything they'd have to do to avoid that?
>>43622452
Heavily armoured troops in desert climates usually wore fabrics on top of their armour (especially the helmets) to make things more bearable.
>>43622348
Note that in-setting, that guy is supposed to be from a relatively persia-analogue with a generally rather moderate climate.
>>43622262
Fight at night. Which presents its own logistical problems.
Ask the Byzantines anon.
>>43622452
>What are tabards.
Isn't like Europe doesn't have very warm places and used heavy armor.
>>43622445
That's why you wear a tabard or robes over it, silly.
>>43622866
Or ask the Saracens.
Yes. Many Mideastern and North African cultures used heavy armor. However, they were mounted as often as not.
Mail armor adds almost no barrier to the elements, overly thick padding could be an issue. Historically, some groups wore mail with little to no padding which does reduced the effectiveness relative to more padding, so there is probably some ideal balance of padding for preventing overheating and reasonable protection.
Full plate harnesses are probably going to be hot for infantry use as plate armor traps heat. Cavalry might be able to get away with plate armor though.
>>43622262
Full plate?
They'll need some kind of reliable cooling function to keep them from getting heat stroke, especially if they're fighting on foot.
It's not particularly well suited to the desert, heat and fatigue can wear you down much faster in that kind of environment, plus if its your stereotypical polished suit of armor, it's going to give your away from a great distance.
>>43622866
Yep. Just like this.
Just remember that desert armor relies on two things to work: coverage and air pockets. You want to go with layers rather than plate. Layers allow air to get trapped in between which when circulated cools the trooper. Covering everything with robes or a tabard helps too. You also want to cover as much of your body as possible to keep the sun off.
Rather than plate with some chain and padding try linen, scale, chain, and laminar combined.
>>43622507
There's a bit of India and Mesopotamia in there too. Probably at least something close to a desert somewhere in Karthack, so it probably works.
>>43622262
Nah, it's all light camelvry.
>>43623193
It sounds something like a brigandine would work wonders. Cheap, robe covered and good protection.
>>43623901
Pretty much the opposite, actually. The brigandine doesn't let air circulate.
>>43622262
European style heavy infantry wouldn't work well, as we saw in the Crusades.
Deserts are just not the optimal environment for heavy anything. There's a reason the Persian Empire conquered a whole bunch of shit with chariots and light infantry.
>>43622352
Has it right I think. Heavy Cavalry probably would work better. Camels probably would work better than horses.
>>43622882
>>43623963
This actually brings up the crusaders and what they wore: the templars and many other orders actually preferred white tabbards that covered their entire bodies, specifically so it would prevent their mail from heating up too much in the desert sun. Full plate wasn't around at the time so it wasn't an issue, though their Great Helmets could get a bit murky (which is probably why, even in Europe, they were generally only carried on their heads during battle and just carried around while marching).
I never understood why the Hospitallers preferred black tabbards though. Their base of operations was Malta, and even Malta can get pretty damned hot. Why black? Why not a light shade of grey instead?
>>43624067
To show they are hardcore?
>>43622379
I served in central and Wesrern Iraq as an infantryman. We never had to pack a sustainment load. Always had humvees or 8 ton trucks.
>>43625578
I think he was meaning that you were trained for it more than it happens.
Is standard procedure to drop packs if you get engaged in a firefight or to keep them on?
>>43624067
>Why black?
The uniform blackness with the contrasting white cross helped to show the Hospitallers as different from both enemy soldiers and other knights. They later got upgraded to red, the color of the Holy Spirit.
In other words, soldiers back then were willing to suffer for dat battlefield swag.
>>43624067
Late period Hospitallers wear plate and red coats when they had an equipment reform. I think the black was worn early on to match their black armor and boats. Hospitaller armor is treated with tar in a way to make it waterproof (less maintenance and it is better for naval engagements).
Another thing to think about is that wearing black in the desert is pretty common. White cotton lets in UV rays while black cotton absorbs it. It's much better to be sweaty and hot in the desert than it is to be sunburnt and have heat stroke. Many desert dwellers still wear black for this reason.
>>43625578
Carried them in stan in 09-10
>>43625640
Keep them on
>>43624067
if I remember correctly, bedouins (or berbers?) wear black robes and whatnot because it heats up quicker and since the clothing is loose the air will go through like an AC.
Perhaps they thought of something similiar?
>>43622437
Well, cataphracts or kataphraktoi, depending on how anal you are. Kataphractos just sounds like a Mexican heavy metal band.
South arabs used alot of heavy infantry back in late antiquity.
Since heavy infantry can fight in cities very well
>>43625762
>>43626125
Oh, that sounds like it makes sense.
>>43625712
>soldiers back then were willing to suffer for dat battlefield swag
>tfw warfare doesn't work like that today
in hot areas , full plate is shit because it traps the bodys heat and eleminates the natural cooling systems (sweat)
your soldiers better have heat resitances or use chainmail (see the crusaders) , which actually works like a radiator to cool the body . african warriors are mostly protecting themselves with shields , because wearing any kind of armor or protective clothing would make them overheat before battle starts
>>43627687
>because wearing any kind of armor or protective clothing would make them overheat before battle starts
Sudanese quilted armour for man and horse. Should protect quite well against cold weather as well.
>>43625800
I only have friends in Arty and Armoured so I never would have thought to ask.
>>43622445
The Crusaders managed it just fine senpai
>>43622466
Also you typically only wear the armor when you're actually fighting. A couple hours in a tin can under the desert sun isn't much fun, but it beats being stabbed through the heart.
>>43627687
Most of what you said is pretty retarded desu senpai
Because this is /tg/ and fantasy is a thing, don't discount specialized materials existing that could serve this exact purpose. Giant Scorpion Chitin perhaps, or enchanted Ironcloth.
>>43629689
u mean those crusaders who didin't wear fucking plate because it wasn't even a thing yet?
>>43627687
>african warriors are mostly protecting themselves with shields , because wearing any kind of armor or protective clothing would make them overheat before battle starts
Other than the Sudanese quilted armor that was already posted, the Aztecs used hardened cloth (which is surprisingly hard) and Arabian civilizations used lamellar. There's no reason not to wear armor in hot climates other than simply lacking the technology. As such most of those warriors are from highly isolated central and southern African tribes with stone age technology (like the Zulu) whereas The Sudanese, Ethiopians and Malinese used mail, lamellar and other forms of heat-friendly armor imported from the Arabic world.
>>43635541
>THe malinese used mail.
Source. Also anything about the mali army could be useful, is one of those Big Sub Saharan empires everyone is talking about but I don't shit about they army.
>>43636851
Most of the sources Wiki links to are French - https://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Military_history_of_the_Mali_Empire#Sources
This thread is retarded as fuck.
>OP: what HEAVY INFANTRY is of use in a desert
>third of anons: duh, [insert MEDIUM soldier type here], op, you dumbass.
>another third: duh, [posts pics of HORSED units]. why so stupid, op?
>>43627687
>works like a radiator to cool the body
That's only a good thing if the air is cooler than your body.
>>43622262
Mamlukes
>>43622348
Well they wouldn't be a very on the field unit, that's for sure. More of an defender than anything.
Also deserts can be very flat too.
>>43637437
https://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Heavy_infantry
>>43625762
>White cotton absorbs UV rays.
I would have thought it would reflect it, or is that only for other white coloured materials?
