Can a euro explain to me whether these guys are actually the GOATs of soccer? Or are they just the greatest of our current time?
>>69291140
Depends on your definition of GOAT.
The greatest are of all time are Pele, Lalas and Maradona
>>69291140
Messi is the GOAT, Ronaldo is in the top 5 of all time AT LEAST.
>>69291140
It's impossible to know
Messi is. Ronaldo at the top of the tier below.
I'd say Messi is a contender for GOAT alongside guys like Pele and Best.
Ronaldo is in a tier below alongside guys like Ronaldinho, Zidane, Rooney, Beckham, etc.
>>69291184
I feel like when Michael Jordan was playing, we knew at some point that he was the GOAT.
As opposed to a guy like Curry, who is a great shooter but we all realize isnt really the GOAT.
Is Messi a Jordan or a Curry?
>>69291267
>Rooney, Beckham
Rooney was good until he turned 23 and Beckham is just a glorified FK taker and above average passer. Becks' reputation was built on excellent media exposure and some good looks. Oh, and Vicky too.
>>69291267
>Rooney
>Beckham
>same class as Zidane or Ronaldinho
Kys
>>69291274
something in between, he had many chances to cement his status as a GOAT but it keeps slipping away
They would both be eternal GOAT's if the other guy was not around
>>69291140
They both qualify for top 5, but not GOAT. That would be Maradona.
>>69291170
>>69291248
not op or a soccer fan, but shouldn't the "greatest of all time" in any sport be someone who can produce on any team and in international competitions as well?
Just seems like Messi is only good on a stacked team where he plays with the other top players in the world. Then he goes on team Argentina and looks like a literally who.
Doesn't really feel like "greatest of all time" desu.
>>69291274
Jordan
>>69291274
>Anonymous 07/06/16(Wed)16:42:10 No.69
Neither, I'd say he's more like a Kobe Bryant.
LeBron James is more like Ronaldo
>>69291267
>Beckham
>Rooney
Are you high?
messi is the goat tax avoider
>>69291274
Messi in 2010, 2013 and 2015 were at that MJ level of GOAT awareness. Stats didn't matter, you could just see it.
>>69291140
>Messi the quiter
>GOAT
NOPE
>>69291329
Yeah, both of them didn't do much with their NT. Now just in term of trophies but also performance when it matters.
They're extremely consistent and have been for many years though.
>>69291329
>literally who
>Messi at Argentina
>Not a soccer fan.
Yeah, no shit.
>>69291363
>>69291274
Jordan, but we've had at least 3 of them.
Messi
Maradona
Pele
>>69291274
Messi is definitely above Curry but probably below Jordan. He's played and lost 4 tournament finals with Argentina, had he won the World Cup and at least one of the Copa finals he'd have been Jordan-tier GOAT imo. Had he won all 4, he'd have been objectively Jordan-tier, not even haters could have denied. Sadly, he didn't win any because he failed to show up (except in the last final where I think he did play well).
Ronaldo is closer to Curry than to Jordan.
>>69291267
Most good English players (Owen, Rooney) are world class until about 22. To even mention Becks in the same breath as Zidane is heresy. kys
>>69291395
Ok, this makes sense
Thanks all
>>69291408
>he didn't win any because he failed to show up
people genuinely believe this. fucking hell.
Both are lucky to be playing in an era with mega financial disparity. At NT level where its a more level playing field they don't stand out as any better than the other top players in football.
>>69291471
I like Messi but he was fucking shit in the World Cup finals. Didn't create any good chances and bottled his own chances.
you cant compare this 2 especially Messi with the legends of 20 century, i think the level of football played today is much higher.
>>69291267
>Rooney, Beckham
>look at flag
Kek.
>>69291274
Jordan.
But a Jordan who fails with his national team.
If Messi had actual success with his national team nobody would doubt he is the GOAT. Unfortunately he is just a club babby.
>>69291329
http://fivethirtyeight.com/features/lionel-messi-is-impossible/
most efficient scorer of all time, amazing passing, great assisted or unassisted
literally three times as good as tsunaldo
>>69291140
Very hard to define these days. Like most Team sports from the 30s to 80s football wasnt that incredibly team dependent. It was a lot like hockey desu, just about getting the ball (or puck) to a star player who would do something amazing. But after that time teamwork became more important as well as real chemistry and matching playstyles etc.
My point is: in the far past it was easier to shine because you were that much better than most opponent players or even your own teammates.
Nowadays it is all about the team as a base and single players arent that dominant anymore as they usually also have to depend on the skills of all the others in the squad.
Messi is the kind of player who can still pull off the "old way" and make entire attacks work alone but that kind of play isnt very important nowadays.
So Messi belongs into the top 5 by old measures if that answers your question, but he is very close with others in todays context.
Maybe that was all bullshit though, quite high on flu medicine rn
>>69291140
Both are overrated shit
>>69291167
>Lalas
>>69291846
I know right
WTF
>>69291140
Messi is the greatest player there has ever been, and most likely ever will be. The fag on the right is nothing.
>>69291780
No, you're right. Mourinho recently talked about how he prefers "specialized" players who are really good at their position/job rather than a great player who is a jack-of-all-trades but master of none.
This basically means that players who are good in a "cog in a machine" way are a lot more valuable nowadays.
NBA comparisons:
-Messi is a more successful Oscar Robertson, (but a bit less than Jordan). Does everything at high level. Lacks leadership. Less determined than Ronaldo. Personally I think winning with the national team is overrated. He's top 3 ever.
-Ronnie is a less successful version of Kobe Bryant (and much more polarizing), meaning that he's build for offense and very selfish. Hard to rank him, stats-wise he's top 10 ever, maybe top 5, but many areas of his game are lacking (selfishness, general uselessness when he's not scoring and zero will to defend) and that's unforgettable in a sport where team game is the holy grail.
>>69291140
>goat
>zero success with National Team
HAHAHAHAHAHAHA
>>69291267
>still overrating english footbal after that humiliation against Iceland
When will you learn? It's going to happen again in 2018 if you keep doing this.
>>69292794
>english people getting easy (You)s on 4chinz will personally affect England's performance in russia 2018
>>69292830
>meme magic isn't real
>>69291140
Honestly, both of them are of class of players above all others. Both pele and Maradona played a different football than it is played today. No doubts, they were the best at their time, but today, comparing also to the past, Messi and Ronaldo are monsters. Just look at all their records, how competitive they are on an era when football has never been more competitive. Haters gonna hate, some hate Messi, others hate Ronaldo.
