https://www.washingtonpost.com/news/soccer-insider/wp/2016/06/24/why-cant-u-s-soccer-join-the-worlds-elite-its-not-jurgen-klinsmann-its-mls/
>tfw WaPo has better soccer analysis than ESPN and FS1
>>68919520
Okay so whats the alternative to MLS? NASL? Have fun sending soccer back 20 years in this country, soccer media and fans are so retarded here
>>68919660
This. You can't just wave a eand and make a top tier american soccer league. Yes MLS is garbage. But what else can we do? Until each MLS team is a multi billion dollar entity who can pay ludicrous salaries we will always suck.
>>68919660
>sending soccer 20 years back
We need to go further back. The early 80s were the best period of American sports history
to my understanding: the only reason we've even been on the world stage for the last 25 years is because FIFA said "no domestic league, no world cup"
>In January 2007, Simon [author of above-mentioned op-ed] was appointed Reuters’ first sports correspondent in Miami and covered a range of sports including the NFL, PGA golf, ATP and WTA Tennis and cricket in the Caribbean.
seriously who gives a fuck what he thinks anyway
>>68919773
Come on Marty I set the time circuits and the flux compacitor is fluxing. Let's go to the past.
>>68919709
Exactly, it's all about the money, not the league itself. The viewership and attendance isn't high enough to pay the money needed to bring high quality players here. People always go off on MLS
>hur durr MLS sucks
MLS will suck until the American population cares about soccer the same way they care about NFL, NBA, MLB...etc.
That won't happen until our national team can compete with top tier teams from around the world.
The U.S. team needs to be good before MLS can be good.
>>68919847
wanna see attendance records get obliterated: let the USA host the Champions League Finals
they'd have to do it at a fucking college football stadium to get the 100,000 people there that would pay 150 bucks for obstructed view seats lol
>>68919905
>USA host the Champions League Finals
FUND IT
How do we make this happen? I think it's actually plausible desu as opposed to ridiculous proposals to play PL games in US.
>>68919905
The UEFA champions League will never be held in the U.S., even though I would flip my shit and go to every game if they did.
>>68920097
it will; it has to be
just like the NFL needs to strike their "no superbowls out of home markets" rule and host a superbowl in London.....it's good for sports
>>68919994
I'm tired of you. Americans doesn't give a fuck about this sport, and yet everytime they wanna host some shit or welcome our teams to play friendlies. FUCK YOU AMERICA, GO PLAY YOUR STUPID SPORTS AND LEAVE REAL SPORTS TO US
>>68920201
you can keep Moto GP, f/am
>>68920123
The level of yuro butthurt would shut it down before it even started.
Although the U.S. has a massive population of real madrid/barca fans
>"MLS clubs do not face the struggle for survival that relegation creates in other leagues. "
I've stated that early, then a bastard told me this: >>68843474
>"But the problem is not simply that American youth soccer’s “pay-to-play” system fails to develop talent from Hispanic..."
You americans don't get it: the ENTIRE league is pay-to-play!!! Orlando City was founded only in 2010, but it's already playing against the Red Bulls!! It's a two way shot! Orlando doesn't need to perform better since they are not getting relegation and Red Bulls don't need to perform better since they are playing against shitty teams. American leagues are a fraud!! You don't pay to get in a league, you have to fight your way through it.
If you value your money and time just abandon american leagues, buy a jersey from an European or South American club and follow its league all over the season, every season, get updated about transferences... That's where real football is.
>>68920201
Sorry that we have better stadiums, facilities, public transportation, infrastructure and less violent Muslims to ruin everything.
When the U.S. finally becomes a soccer nation, the suicide rate in europe is going to skyrocket.
can we have, like, the FA Cup final then? or a Boxing Day match?
>>68920283
honestly promotion/relegation would not be good for the league; the teams are barely staying afloat as it is
maybe in 20 or 30 years but not now
>>68920288
> better stadium
stadiums too big, everytime it looks like it's empty because you doesn't have 90.000+ fans of football ready to fill the seats
> Facilities, Public Transportations, Infrastructure
We live in Europe, not Burundi. My country is shit but have your see English or German facilities?
> less violent muslims
Come on dude, are you joking?
>>68919660
not it's that the population isn't retarded enough. that's such a stupid game is popular in europe is mostly based on history.
>>68919847
our national teams are great in many things that no one really cares about. few get any attention outside the olympics or something like the womens world cup. they got endorsement deals but their leagues have been up and down for 20 years.
>>68920414
most americans don't know that the problem in Italy is Africans, not Arabs
but the terms are interchangeable so he wasn't joking
>>68920414
>less violent Muslims
Besides a couple one off attacks, Europe is way shittier with Muslims that the U.S., especially after pic related becomes pres
>>68920283
>American leagues are a fraud!!
this, there really is no incentive to be the best. No surprise all finished players end up there
>>68920288
>we have better stadiums, facilities
false
>public transportation
top keks
>less violent
bwahaha
>>68920378
That's why americans just play handegg, baseball and hockey: because rich people controls your sports. These sports are not played abroad in any form (except for Canada and Japan). Rich people like Flávio Augusto da Silva are just happy enough making money out of the you. They are not interested in raising the quality of the sport.
Here in Brazil people's taste by itself holds the sport, and not marketing campaigns. Americans need to develop taste for it. Let the kids play in a daily basis, let the teens play in amateur leagues and let the adult watch and enjoy professional matches. That way the sport grows from the people to the media, and not the other way aroung. If americans don't start liking football as much as an argentinian, or a brazilian, or a english likes it there's no way football is going to be big in US.
From 20-30 years from now, if the sport is kept in the hands of rich people, it will either fall broke or become a big machine creating of artists that pretend to be players.
>>68919709
>Until each MLS team is a multi billion dollar entity who can pay ludicrous salaries we will always suck.
>this moronic as fuck thinking
>>68920753
so there are more soccer coaches in the USA than coaches of any other sport; it's well loved but trying to play it at a competitive level is difficult, and so is growing the sport as quickly as we have w/ youth academies and a move toward keeping our best talent here at home instead of sending them to Europe
we're just in a crappy infancy right now; it isn't about money (if it was then the league would have folded a very long time ago cuz it isn't doing well financially) and it'll get better as long as they stay with their current model: designate players from europe to play on the team of MLS' choosing, maintain a draft, create regional rivalries to help build attendance and fanbases, give Americans a fair chance at playing top flight soccer, continue wooing big clubs from europe to play friendlies here for the mutual benefits
>>68920283
>promotion/relegation is for socialists
it's actually the exact opposite of that. it punishes failure and rewards excellence. american sports are the socialist sports, giving first draft picks to the shittiest teams.
i always get so fucking buttflustered when that argument is made. ignorant fucking shitheel. goddamn kneejerk braindead faggot.
not you, brazil, obviously.
but yeah, we can't afford prom/rel right now. it's a vicious circle really. MLS is doomed to perpetual mediocrity.
I've made my point with those commentaries. I will recommend it one more time to the americans in /sp/. Watch this match, see the explosion of emotions that comes out of the crowd, see how the match has infinite higher pace than the american matches. The players are killing each in order to win, because promotion/relegation delivers the REAL competition that creates good players for your NT. If you create a team today in Brazil you will need to dispute all they way across the "E", D, C, B and A divisions against hundreds of other teams. You will get to the end of that with a very sharp and high level team. You don't just pay to get in the national league here. THAT's real football!
It's not that hard to see, the american NT don't even know what is a triangulation. Other than south american and european leagues, you will just be wasting time and money.
https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=J9PPIUYitOs
>>68920954
>draft
They still do that? I had the feeling it wasn't relevant at all.
>>68921114
when Ronaldinho decides to take a spot on an expansion team the draft won't matter cuz
>>68920823
What's wrong with it? MLS can't pay players shit so the second they get good, they travel to Europe for more money.
Oh, you're from UK....
>>68921394
lol we really don't pay MLS players enough man some of them make less than 40k a year
>“One of the reasons I didn’t enjoy England so much is that it’s so small and soccer is the biggest thing there. So everything you do is magnified times a thousand,” he said.
>Shea added in another interview while playing in England that he missed the weekly team barbecues he enjoyed while with FC Dallas and lamented that playing the game in England was “just different; it’s a job.”
The fuck?
>>68921561
backyard parties and tailgating are mandatory during chillmode in USA
even if an out of town band came through my town, someone had a grill so that everybody was well fucking fed
>>68921561
fags gonna fag
>>68920954
>it isn't about money
indeed. even within three years of low budged and urban leagues with at least two divisions you will end up with much better football than those fake private leagues.
>>68920954
>so there are more soccer coaches in the USA than coaches of any other sport
90% of those "coaches" are middle-aged suburban dads who drive their daughters to soccer practice after work
>>68920753
Just for the record, I've mentioned Flávio Augusto da Silva, because he owns the Orlando City.
>>68921107
To whoever may interest, that match between Vasco da Gama vs Botafogo was the second to decide the 2016 Champion of The Rio Janeiro State. The first match's score was Vasco da Gama 1 vs 0 Botafogo. That's why Vasco was the champion after the draw in this second match. After state tournaments all over the country we started the national tournament, which is going on right now until the end of the year.
>>68923081
grassroots commitment to the sport = interest in the improving quality of the sport
>>68920283
I don't think promotion/relegation matters all that much honestly. And we won't know for sure until America has nearly as much money and national viewership share in its mls as European leagues do.
>>68921561
and that is our problem, in a nutshell. the mentality.
>>68919520
Is the US media shitting on Klinsmann? I actually am quite impressed with him as a manager. He knows what he's doing and he made your NT play very well.
>>68924881
ESPN is basically the sports media
and they largely avoid soccer unless they're broadcasting the tournament in question (for example, they'll give more attention to college soccer than they would to the champions league or EPL); it's quite biased
What's the big issue? Mls is slowly growing (not that I watch that shit) right? America is getting gud. Why is everyone itt bitching so hard?
>>68925152
They caught mexicanitis, they vastly underestimate the competition and get mad because they lose to "beatable" teams, this mad makes them not see how much they've been improving.
In fact, the issues your team has is that your player skills are just shit, a coach that only plays a few times with a team can't fix that, it's up to the clubs to do it.
>>68924946
not that anon, but our ESPN is biased as well - except it's the opposite
90% divegrass (even when there isn't much going on, they show shit no one cares about like reserve team matches and youth club tournaments), 10% everything else
>>68925219
*highlights of reserve team matches and youth club tournaments
>>68920283
Promotion and relegation is unfeasible in MLS for the time being. As it is, even the biggest MLS franchises (not clubs) have very few people who give a shit about them. Any franchise in one of the lower tiers would be bankrupt and cease to exist immediately.
america will never be elite because kids dont develop skill at a young age like in other countries where there's nothing to do but play soccer
>>68921043
Running a sport and setting economic policy are not the same thing. Making your league more competitive and preventing the same teams from winning year in and year out is good for the product. You are selling a product not running a goddamn country.
>>68919660
I didn't read the article but we need a promotion/relagation soccer pyramid. Not this bullshit where Beckham can decide he wants a Miami MLS team and gather the funds to do so. Without promotion and relagation there becomes stagnation.
>>68920288
>public transportation
By no possible objective is that anywhere close to true
>>68925334
they choose to play sports that have a better likelihood of success
look at MLB; they have like 900 draft picks every year...you actually have a legit chance of getting into a farm team if you play baseball cuz they're willing to take a chance on pretty much anybody
>>68920283
>South American club
Yeah, their shitty too. Just look at your struggles to find a good forward or a midfielder who can play box to box.
>>68925505
depends on the city
>>68925525
right, obviously
we have such a robotic team, they're just generally athletic people that play soccer, we have none of the skill that south american and euro teams have, it's just not what kids do here. You have to develop it from such a young age.
>>68925570
yesterday I watched a documentary on Netflix about table tennis in USA
they talked about how there's no talent in America, that the country is a joke on a world stage
and all I could think is "I bet we would fucking dominate in that sport if anybody here actually gave a shit. girls go into tennis, basketball, track&field, gymnastics, hockey, baseball, and soccer; boys go into the above mentioned plus football; those are just our sports and that's not gonna change"
>>68920753
>>68920753
We really are developing a taste for it. All my friends are buying the FIFA games, learning players in Euro leagues, shitting on MLS, but still going to games.
It's gonna be a thing here. My sister's husband was a semi-pro player in england and now he coaches here in the US and he took a group of kids from a small city here to Italy and won a tournament.
>>68923036
We've already had that for a while, it's just not popular.
Why do Americans think that they would dominate only if they cared? Most of the sports they play are, for the most part, irrelevant in the rest of the world, or coincidentally give out the most medals in the Olympics.
>>68920753
Hue you realize that soccer is the most popular American youth sport, right?
Until that gets converted into elite players everything is irrelevant.
>>68925737
what's popular in Mexico
Basketball, Baseball, NFL, Soccer
those sports are pretty popular here too man
>Washington Post
Literally Salon tier
>>68925737
We have blacks and money.
Why wouldn't we dominate?
>>68925322
That would greatly reduce the league from the bloated shithouse it is into a competitive thing with good players who suddenly have to compete for fewer spots.
>>68925810
Yeah, but not just blacks, but we have the good blacks.
Yo actually, let's start up some inner-city soccer clubs.
>>68925810
if a bunch of hick boosters from suburban Dallas wanted to make a superteam cuz college soccer is the newest hype sport they would make a world class team with no concerns about expenses; but they don't like soccer so that will never happen
>>68925810
The best football players in the world are manlets and white-ish. Football is different from any other of your sports. Big, strong, black mandingos do not dominate this game.
>>68925737
Imagine athletes like Michael Jordan, LeBron James, Russell Westbrook, Tom Brady, JJ Watt, Gronkowski, the nigger RB that whipped his son, OBJ and other freaks athletes playing soccer. They would win it all 2bh pham.
Can we at least all agree that Brek Shea is a cunt?
>>68925797
t. Trump dickrider
>>68925898
Or Kobe, he looks like a fucking soccer player already.
honestly I'd love to see NFL players trying AFL that seems like a cool sport cuz you have to be able to do everything. kick, throw, tackle, run
but it has weird rules
>>68925245
>él no ve la sub-15 de Aldosivi jugar fútbol-tennis en los parqueaderos del estadio por ESPN8
smcpsh (sacudiendo mi cabeza para ser honesto)
>>68925758
>Until that gets converted into elite players everything is irrelevant.
so what?It is the most youth football in whole africa and they never won anything
>>68925898
>Tom Brady
>freak athlete
>>68925921
I hope US Footie dies and rugby replaces it. Far better sport.
what we need is some big budget film about soccer that really takes off and sends the nation into a frenzy
it needs to be able to create some sort of meme a la straight outta compton/friday
and we need that to coincide with the u.s. going to the wc final
it'll sort itself out from there
>>68925934
>Implying Tom Brady wouldn't be the GOAT DCM
>>68925971
I'm sorry anon but that film had already been created and it had a negligible effect on soccer in the states.
Maybe do one with Markie Mark or that little faggot from suicide squad. People love that shit.
>>68925936
it won't, but i think americans would be able to pick up on rugby faster than soccer, or at least be able to appreciate it more easily
with soccer there isn't anything there remotely resembling any of our big sports, so they can't see the nuances and strategy without diving into the deep end. with rugby there are at least visual aspects that will trigger the gridiron parts of the american brain
>>68921394
They can't pay them because of the retarded salary cap.
Which begs the question, why is the USA competitive in Hockey and not in Soccer?
>>68926015
Only like 4 other nations play Hockey seriously, and they're the size of one of your smaller states.
>>68926015
Hockey is a lot more popular than you think and it has the history in the USA lacking in soccer.
>>68926044
Lots of people play hockey seriously, everyone in a cold country that likes soccer enjoys it.
Centracas and gringos cucked
>>68925971
Awaydays remake but the northwest would immediately erupt in flames
What's wrong with the original? Liverpudlian accents are impossible to decipher
>>68919520
Because no one cares. Stop asking.
>>68921561
Brek Shea is arguable the biggest space cadet in US Soccer history.
>>68919520
klinsmann just sucks at team selection, desu. this bad boy right here would have won the Copa.
also, ignore the shitty futhead app, but it's the easiest way to build a lineup.
>>68925918
it's no secret that Kobr loves soccer
>>68926896
Is he involved with LAFC at all? It seems like half of the celebretities in LA are involved with it somehow.
>>68926753
>All those 70s and 60s
>>68926753
>replacing mls lifers with more mls lifers
inadvertenly proving his OP's point
MLS and the US in general doesn't have the academy system that other countries have, until it does, we won't be winning any international competitions of worth
>>68926007
My sister and (female) cousin loved this movie. We also have the best women's soccer team in the world. I think somehow the perception of soccer as a women's sport in the US is holding us back.
>>68927367
Or maybe people should trust MLS players, which in turn, would grow the league? Why is everyone so quick to discount the MLS? Why is it when the MLS All-Star game rolls around, everyone jumps on the "WE LOVE MLS BANDWAGON" as soon as a major European team gets beat? Pep didn't rate the MLS, and Bayern got beat. Pochettino didn't rate the MLS, and Tottenham got beat. Benitez, did the same thing when he was with Chelsea, and was beat. The MLS has some quality American talent that just don't want to go overseas, and would make great additions to the MNT.
But Klins hates the MLS, so he refuses to change his play style or formation, and incorporate MLS players, that would overall make a stronger national team, and instead forces youth into Germany and does other ridiculous shit like constantly playing Bradley, even after every fuck up, playing Zardes on the right, starting Wondo period, etc.
Look at tonight's game; he plays Wood, he flubbed every chance. Brings in Nagbe, who is an MLS player, and the game already started to change.
>>68927489
I definitely think the success of the women's team has had an effect on the men's side of the sport.
It is viewed as a "girls sport" just because the u.s. Women owned that shit for so long. Everyone has seen that picture of mia hamm or whatever rip her shirt off after that goal. It was all over the place.
Not to blame it on the women's team or anything, but the "traditional" American NFL/NBA/MLB fan isn't going to waste his time watching a team that constantly gets shown up by the women, despite facing way stiffer competition.
>>68927659
Wut? There's literally no competition in women's football aside from Japan.
>>68925880
Are you telling me being able to run faster than everybody else isn't a large advantage. Or having a 7 foot goalie (thats also nimble).
Has soccer experienced the mandingos? They are truly a sight to behold
>>68927585
>MLS
>Quality talent
t. Wondolowski supporter
>>68919520
>>68919660
>actually trying to help and improve the us meme soccer team
let is die. mls is cancer and there is no country more undeserving than the US4 of a decent national team
>>68927817
>Say playing Wondo is a mistake.
>Wondo supporter.
>>68925880
As opposed to all the talented African players playing in Europe, right?
>>68927585
>>68927585
wood was our best attacking player besides dempsey. hes been the big surprise considering he played at a level below mls for a while.
zardes has shown some nice ball control but obviously is not at an elite level when it comes to finishing, passing, or decision-making in general, which is, I honestly believe, a reflection of playing in the MLS for so long. Same for nagbe and beckerman. and of course wondo.
the only elite part of the team was the foreign-based defense, then jones and dempsey who played most of their careers outside of mls.
Pulisic, despite being played rarely at the end of losing efforts, has shown he's already better than half the team. if that guy ever plays in the mls, it will be for marketing reasons.
>>68927843
>not wanting to win at everything
You're not an American, are you?
>>68927769
Tall players in football tend to be slow with their feet and have bad ball control. There are some exceptions though, like Ronaldo or Zlatan, but they're not the rule. Goalkeeping is not about being a giant. The best GKs in the world are 185cm-190cm tall, perfect height to touch the upper goalpost without having to jump. They're good because they have great reflexes, positioning and anticipation. Messi could run circles around LeBron because his small frame and quick feet can allow him to keep the ball basically glued to his foot.
>>68927849
Talented yeah, some are. But not nearly the best in the world.
>>68927950
There are literally tons of tall players who are fast and skilled, especially in the world of soccer. If America's most talented athletes had been groomed for footballinstead of their respected sports, it'd be a completely different game on the NT level.
Take someone like LeBron, for example. He's 6'8", 250 pounds, only needs 9 strides to go from end-to-end on the court, and if had spent his entire youth playing soccer in the same fashion as Messi, Ronaldo, or Zlatan, he could be equally as good, if not better. And LeBron is only one case; America has tons of people like this.
Jesus Christ this topic again
>>68928082
>There are literally tons of tall players who are fast and skilled, especially in the world of soccer
Average or manlet players far outnumber them. Give me at least 10 examples of 190cm+ / 6'3"+ tall players that are actually skilled and not just poacher subs.
>Take someone like LeBron, for example. He's 6'8", 250 pounds, only needs 9 strides to go from end-to-end on the court
Basketball courts are like 1/8th the size of a football field. You can't even begin to compare them, football is much more demanding, the fact that in Basketball you can play a game every 2 days already tells you something. Tall people are good for quick strides thanks to their huge legs, but let's see how they do on constant 50-70 meter / 60 yard sprints, since they're taller, they're naturally heavier and will get tired faster.
>>68928082
nigger you're retarded. this whole topic is bait but get over your dreams of AMERICA RULING THE WORLD FUCK YEAH WE WUZ WORLD CUP KINGZ YEEEE MLS BEST LEAGUE YEE
get over yourself you fuck
>>68928199
not the guy you're replying to, but that's literally impossible to do outside of zlatan at 6'4". however, guys like kane, lukaku, costa, etc, that are at 6'2". they'd be crouch or traore tier at over 6'3"
stupid question , what venue did the us play in today
>>68925682
Now that's some good news.
The bullshit with solidary payments triggers me, the fact that the tiny clubs that produced Yedlin and Hyndman get nothing to help with operating costs is all sorts of endemic and petty and fucked up
Like, someone should try to start a rival federation about that shit
>>68925976
Nah, he would have been the stationary playmaker with a bodyguard behind him in-case the other team got too frisky.
>>68928581
University of Phoenix stadium, which sounds like it's a college stadium, but in fact said university is a shit tier diploma mill which bought the naming rights to the stadium in which the NFL's Arizona cardinals play.
>>68929298
It's a really nice stadium. Retractable field and dank nachos
>>68919520
Why doesn't Bill Gates just donate a billion dollars to the MLS and justify it by creating youth soccer programs with an incentive that it targets poor communities?
>>68927698
But the average American doesn't know that, though.
