![Screen%20Shot%202012-12-19%20at%202.39.41%20PM_905[1].png](https://i.imgur.com/pDg020Q.jpg "Screen%20Shot%202012-12-19%20at%202.39.41%20PM_905[1].png")
>Cruyff dies
>''RIP the man who created modern Barcelona the best team the world has ever seen''
>LVG joins United
>''With the man who created modern Barcelona we are literally unstoppable''
>Poop joining City after doing little with Bayern
>''Well, he still made the best team in the world, look how shit Barcelona was with Rijkaard!''
It was Messi all along, right lads?
I know they are words but i cant understand what you say?
why do people keep posting this pic?
you might as well draw lines between all the madrid players.
what are these fucking lines supposed to convey you fuck dumbfuck shitstain?
that messi or whoever the manlet in the middle is could receive a pass from everyone around him for a split second?
LOOK I CAN DRAW LINES TOO
god i am so angry
>>66385547
It shows great attacking shape and multitude of potential passing lanes, you moron. Every Barcelona player has at least 2 easy passing options.
It doesn't mean anything for Madrid because they don't have the ball in that picture, their defensive shape is average at best (bad offside line, no one in close vicinity to Messi)
This pic in OP looks like that bait table with leagues names and numbers next to it. It doesn't mean a thing.
>>66385547
>>66385595
It's far and between when this happens, but I always smile slightly at a German stating that he is angry
>>66385547
because it appears on google images you autistic fuck.
Think for a second before you post, you're supposed to be practical. Instead you wasted your time drawing lines. Precious time needed for work or sucking muhamed's dick.
>>66385380
People give credit for Barcelona to either Pep, Cruyff or LVG but tiki touka is a meme tactic and it works because messi is on the team. That's why the current barca works without an experienced manager.
>>1 Cruyff
>>1 Cruyff
>>1 Cruyff
>>1 Cruyff
>>1 Cruyff
>>1 Cruyff
>>1 Cruyff
>>66390104
It was always Messi (2)
>>66385547
Kek
Every FM16 tactic thread is like this, full of arrows and lines
>>66390115
It was always Messi (3)
could post more but i'm bored
tiki taka and total football meme, it's all just revolve until messi can do things, or let messi draw multiple
>>66389909
hurr, tiki-taka works because messi.
no, you utter mongoloid, it works because their players were raised/trained under it or hired because they diplay qualities suitable for that type of game.
Messi is important, yes, but he's not teleporting to pass back and forth with the midfielders, nor are the passes entirely aimed towards him.
>>66390137
>>66390159
>mourinho """tactics""""
>>66390174
messi plays the exact same as he did when you watch his video footage of him at 10 years old
the system was made for HIM.
he is too fucking stupid to learn anything else. have you heard him speak? he does what he wants, Barcelona bends over for him, tiki taka is "play for messi"
>>66390207
you are retarded and lame below a simpleton's boredom.
>>66390174
what I'm saying is the system is irrelevant. It was Messi all along.
If the players dedicated so many hours to perfect a meme tactic good for them. Sadly, they hadn't realized who was among them.
Barca don't play tiki taka no more.
>>66390231
if the system is not Messi then why does Barcelona have multiple champions leagues with him?
Why is Messi able to win a champions league with different managers, with completely different fowards, with a changed midfield?
From 2004 to now, Barcelona has won 4 of their 5 ALL TIME Champions leagues. And there is 1 constant, and that is Lionel Andres Messi Cuccittini on the team.
>>66390115
That's a good example: the counter attack is not well executed, the positioning is off, the runs are not timed. The midget, however, does everything perfect and releases the ball at the right time to make it successful
>>66390301
iniesta played all those cls too you messi dickrider
It has always been Messi. You only have to read what many managers who have played against barca said to know that this is the truth.
>>66390379
>the midget does everything perfect
This made me KEK audibly for some reason.
I really doubt that if all three of Busquets, Iniesta and Xavi moved to a club like Newcastle or Stoke or someone that they'd make any impact whatsoever.
It's all about Messi.
>>66390379
>sets up a goal on a 4 v 3 counter
>omg goat
EPL is overrated, there I said It.
>>66385233
>It was Messi all along, right lads?
Of course not you idiot, Spain used the same system and base players as Barcelona without Messi to win two euros and a World Cup in a row.
>>66390730
>international competitions
>FUCKING EURO
You know we have won it right? Who cares it's totally random.
>>66390567
Americans have no worthwhile sports. There I said it.
>>66390835
>international competitions
It's funny you dismiss international competitions when they are the only worthwhile competition in football since you can't just buy your way into winning one.
Winning and International competition once in a fluke is in no way comparable to winning those 3 competitions in a row which is something no other team has ever done, that just proves that system works perfectly without Messi, especially since he has won jack shit with Argentina.
>>66390835
lmao
I like this greekposter
he's also right about everything so far
>>66391030
>that just proves that system works perfectly without Messi
Did you see that Spain play? It was nothing like Barcelona, they just passed the ball around for 90/120 minutes, hoped they'll somehow score and pass their way to a 1-0 win.
>>66391220
it was just a defensive version of how barca play
>>66391327
Exactly, because that team could not consistently score without Messi
>>66391220
That "passing the ball around" was Barcelona's system, the basis of that system back then was both Iniesta and Xavi on their primes, there's no way del Bosque would have played any differently when he had two of the best midfielders of all time on his team.
You can't compare the lower scoring matches of a World Cup to the regular 9 - 0 thrashings they get against Tractor FC in la Liga.
>>66390189
Minus the 5-0 every manager before or after Mou throughly received Messi and co. dick in clasicos. He at least managed to win a couple
>>66391472
>that team could not consistently score without Messi
they didnt try to, it was the same basic system just used in a different way
>>66391556
Watch Spain's knockout games from WC 2010 and then watch Barcelona CL knockout games or El Clasicos from 09 to 11.
Spain kept possession not to concede, Barcelona kept possession to score.
>>66391613
they didn't try to because they couldn't.
>>66391704
>Spain kept possession not to concede, Barcelona kept possession to score.
Yes, they used the same basic system in a very different way, still heavily based on possession but less aggressive, just as their titles show it was just as effective as Barcelona's variant if not more. And there is a big difference between a knockout home and away game where you have more room for error, and a single game knockout round where you make a mistake in one game and you're out.
>>66391897
So the system doesn't work perfectly without Messi because you're unable to use it offensively without him.
>>66391980
how do you come to that conclusion when spain had more success with it
>>66392023
>how do you come to that conclusion
I watched the games.
And Spain's success came against opposition that didn't have the luxury of having almost the entire starting XI train together all year round. That's a pretty big advantage.
Poop literally said that his tactic was made to bring the ball in the last third, and that the rest was the players' job.
Spain imitated this tactic but without Messi to score they heavily relied on Villa, and as much as I like him he's incredibly overrated. And without him, they relied on luck (see 2012)
>>66392023
>spain had more success with it
Barcelona with Messi never crashed out in Champions League group stages after losing 5-1 to a huge underdog.
>>66392103
watching the games led you to believe barcelona have been more succesfful with it than spain have? why is that? spain won all 3 of 4 trophies with it
>>66391980
A system comprises both the offense and the defense, the basis of the system can be the same while the offensive phase is less aggressive due to the nature of International Football.
>>66392103
>the luxury of having almost the entire starting XI train together all year round
Yes, the luxury of as a team consistently perfecting guess what? A fucking system.
>>66392230
watching the games led me to believe that Spain were unable to consistently score vs tough opposition so they were forced to use that system in a purely defensive manner.
when you can't use the system in an offensive manner without Messi then it means the system definitely does not work perfectly without him
>>66392209
true, they got beat 7-0 over 2 games to an underdog though
>>66392287
the system is there to win, spain won more often with it
>>66392252
>A system comprises both the offense and the defense
exactly, and without Messi you have no offence with that system and rely on 1-0s and penalty shootouts
>>66392252
>Yes, the luxury of as a team consistently perfecting guess what? A fucking system.
So? I'm not denying the system's existence, just pointing out that Spain had a major advantage over its opponents that Barcelona did not. In club football, everyone has the same amount of time to train, in NT football, you only get 5-6 weeks a year unless half of your squad comes from 1 club
>>66392297
I'm glad you brought that up since Messi was injured during that tie. It just underlines his importance
>>66392209
Barcelona has the luxury of being able to throw money at the team when their main players get old and stop playing as well, a National Team cannot do that.
I will always remember that match against Croatia. I still don't understand how they won that match, Modric alone buttfucked their midfield
>>66392404
No national team can do that so no one has an advantage in that regard.
Every top club can throw money at the team, so once again, no one has an advantage in that regard.
>>66392382
he played the first leg where they got smashed 4-0
but everybody can pick out specific games or moments like that anyway
my oint is more that spain won more consistently with a defensive version of tiki taka so calling it worse without messi is illogical
Spain 1-0's their way to an extra time world cup victory while having a team of 90% Barcelona and Real Madrid players
Argentina lost in extra time with a team of scattered "stars" which come from Sevilla, Lazio, Monaco, Man City, PSG, Man United, Barcelona, the list goes on.
Not to mention Aguero and Di Maria were injured so Lavezzi, Higuain, and Palacio had to play with Enzo Perez, Biglia, Demichelis.
that being said I would expect maybe 2-3 players from Argentina to be good enough to play for the Spanish national team [Messi, Mascherano, Di Maria], making Messi's run to the world cup much more impressive because his team was honestly dogshit in cohesion.
As for the gameplan?
Spain: pass the ball around, tire the opponent, score in the 80th minute
Argentina: look to Messi, if nothing works rely on a spectacular run using pace.
>>66392525
>he played the first leg where they got smashed 4-0
he played injured
>my oint is more that spain won more consistently with a defensive version of tiki taka so calling it worse without messi is illogical
when you can only use half of the system then it does not work perfectly. winning a few trophies against opposition that's vastly inferior to top club teams does not change that
>>66392355
>rely on 1-0s and penalty shootouts
They won on shootouts only twice during the 3 tournaments they won, and in their last final they completely destroyed Italy 4-0, their system was in no way inferior without Messi, their titles speak for themselves.
>>66392571
>when you can only use half of the system then it does not work perfectly
i never said it works perfectly, that much is clear, barca were always criticised during that period for being weak defensively, neither side were perfect but spains more conservative use of it led to more success
>i never said it works perfectly, that much is clear
That Colombian did and that's what I'm arguing against.
>>66391030
>that just proves that system works perfectly without Messi
What has the country of Spain won since Fuentes was outted for doping?
you can give Spain credit for those titles of doping and Eufemanio Fuentes along with Nadal dominating and Contador also winning, or you can look at real hard facts and realize that federation was seething with illegal substances and since Fuentes was found out they've won nothing.
It's a shame the scandal will never see light in worldwide papers. But as long as Spain has stopped winning then I don't give a fuck.
>>66390159
Looks solid to me.
