>Rivers is by far the best of the three
>only one that won't get into the HOF
is this the biggest injustice in NFL history?
>Eli and Ben have 2 rings
>Phil never went to the bowl
kek. Eli and Archie had the right idea draft day. Fuck San Diego
Former players will vote for Rivers, as will any nostaligic journalists.
It might take a few nominations, but he'll get in. And he won't be the first Charger without a Superbowl to do so.
>this draft class was 24 years ago
>>63465629
I don't think Eli gets in, he doesn't have the statistics. Big Ben was freaking shitty in both Super Bowl wins, but he's had a few elite seasons, so he might get in.
>tfw a shit franchise drafts you
>>63465963
eli gets in for 18-1.
not only that how many qbs won 2 owls that aren't in the hall?
>>63465963
>I don't think Eli gets in
2 time Super Bowl MVP, bruh.
>>63466010
I don't know, he ranks so poorly compared to current top quarterbacks in qbr and completion percentage. Someone posted a chart. I was surprised how miserably he compared.
>>63466079
>qbr
please tell me you're memeing
>>63466010
One. Jim Plunkett
>>63466049
SB MVP doesn't mean shit
>>63466049
2 games shouldn't outweigh the hundreds of other games where he was mediocre or bad
>>63465629
He'll at least become part of the Los Angeles Chargers Ring of Fame.
>>63466116
I was wrong, completion percentage and td/int percentages.
>>63466122
>SB MVP doesn't mean shit
I said multiple.
There are only 5 of them. 3 of them are retired HOFers. The others are Brady and Eli. They will both get in.
>>63466166
superbowl is all that matters
>>63466122
he'll get in because he did it in NY
>>63466220
Eli could easily be another Jim Plunkett.
SB MVP default goes to QB if there is no standout performance from some other person
>>63466230
Trent Dilfer isn't HOF
>>63466010
Just one, but one out of five. 20% is a pretty large minority, especially when you consider the other 4 QBs who have 2 rings had were dominant throughout the rest of their career (other than maybe Griese, who was still well above average).
>>63466253
And he did it against the top franchise of the era. twice.
>>63466303
That first Super Bowl MVP really does belong to Tyree.
>>63466303
It doesn't matter. He's on the short list of 2 SB MVPs
Literally all he has to do is put up average starter numbers until he calls it a career.
>>63466317
2011 Pats weren't very good
>>63466390
and those Giants were a 9 win team.
It doesn't fucking matter. He beat Brady and the Pats in a super bowl, twice.
What part don't you faggots get? Nobody will be analyzing this when they vote. He's a Manning who won 2 rings against the best QB of his era. Its not just a numbers award.
>>63466383
It does. He won't get in due to a stupid award like the SB MVP.
>>63466215
So here's the numbers. Among active quarterbacks with at least 1500 pass attempts, Eli is tied for 10th in touchdown percentage, 21st in completion percentage, 23rd in interception percentage, 14th in yards per attempt, and 12th in passing yards per game. Those aren't hall of fame stats.
>>63466449
>It's not a numbers award
Well shit put Robert Horry in the Basketball hall of fame then.
>>63465629
Because he literally carried a shit team his entire career and the one season where they were #1 on defense and offense they ended up losing out of the playoffs
>>63466571
SD/NE killed each other and Indy got to play the easiest Owl ever
>>63466483
>>63466509
Michael Irvins isn't near the top in any recieving categories. He's like 20-40 in all of them
BUT, he was the top receiver on a team that won multiple super bowls, had some 1000 yard seasons and shit.
Don't be fucking newbs. If your team win super bowls your stats don't have to be all that. Megatron has to go insane to get that same consideration because his team is shit.
>>63465629
Big ben is the best
The hall of fame isn't just about talent otherwise Joe Namath wouldn't be in there.
Talent can win you renown and that's generally how people get in but that's not the sole basis.
Eli will get in because of 18-1 and he's Peyton's brother.
The second Super Bowl just clinches it.
>>63466230
>Puerto Rico
>Thinking your opinion matters
>>63465963
>Big Ben was freaking shitty in both Super Bowl wins
Um, what the fuck? Ben easily deserved the MVP during his second Super Bowl win. He played great all, and that final drive was legendary. He didn't get it because he's unpopular.
In fact, I'm surprised how the early offseason stuff is still fucking with people's perception of him. It's gotten to ridiculous levels where people don't consider him a top 10 QB, even after leading the league in yards last year. He's played most of his career behind one of the worst offensive lines in football, or otherwise the most injured. He's easily the best of the 3 and has been a lock for the HoF for a while now. Time will sort this out.
>>63466674
Dan Marino was first ballot
>>63466752
>The hall of fame isn't just about talent otherwise Joe Namath wouldn't be in there.
babby's first shitpost
>>63466674
Put Robert Horry in the HOF then. 7 rings bro
>>63466800
Dan Marino had all the records when he retired.
Thats my point.
>>63466807
Joe Namath was a shitty quarterback.
>>63466674
>Michael Irvins isn't near the top in any recieving categories. He's like 20-40 in all of them
Which is a lot better than Eli for career stats among quarterbacks, which is saying a lot considering how inflated quarterback numbers are becoming. Eli, statistically, is around the 15th best of his generation. Irvin was top 10 among his peers.
>>63466844
>Basketball
>>63466849
In an era where being a QB wasn't like today.
Sonny Jurgenson is HOF too
>>63466844
He didn't play in the NFL.
Each hall has its own criteria and fame happens to be a factor in the way the football hall of fame works.
Phillip Rivers entire stat line is from garbage time points because the chargers are so fucking bad.
>>63466849
>I use made up numbers like QB rating to judge QBs who played when the average passing route was run 25 yards downfield
go back to playing madden
>>63466894
Literally no. Then Jim Plunkett would be in.
>>63466892
But even in his day, Joe Namath was a shitty quarterback.
He's in the hall and counted among actually talented quarterbacks because he made a guarantee.
>>63466776
He was okay in that game. 21/30, 256 yards, 1 td, 1 int. Not exactly stellar. The other game? 9/21, 123 yards, 0 tds, 2 ints. That's putrid. His playoff numbers in general are pretty bad.
>>63466933
Jim Plunkett isn't famous.
Unless you mean famous for not being in the hall.
>>63466980
He was then and was during his time of eligibility.
>>63466122
I love when people bring up Jim Plunkett, it's a good indicator that they know fuck all about Football.
Jim Plunkett was a massive bust. He was horrible in New England.
He bounced to SF for a year and wasn't any better there
Then he landed in Oakland where he was a backup to start the season in each of those SB wins. He only started in one season with the Raiders.
Stop trying to compare Eli to Jim Plunkett you fucking idiot
>>63467000
he was famous in college and then for being a bust who turned it around when he got to the best run and most talented franchise in the NFL at the time.
Think of it like this.
Could you tell the story of football without mentioning this player? You could tell people about the history of football and never mention Philip Rivers.
But you have to talk about 18-1.(for Eli) And rape.(for Ben)
What did Rivers ever add to the history of football?
>>63467061
See
>>63467056
Fuck off. Eli is awful.
>>63466865
And that is literally irrelevant because he won 2 titles against the top QB and top team of this era. And is a Manning, and did it in NY. And yes, being the QB and MVP of those games will boost his resume.
What part of this don't you get?
"Hall of Fame". Yes, insane numbers can get you in if your team is garbage. But if you're in multiple super bowls, have 'moments' in the playoffs, and at least have decent numbers you'll also get in.
They won't give a fuck about his completion percentage you utter moron.
>>63467104
Doesn't matter dude. He has 2 rings and unlike Jim Plunkett, he wasn't a bust and he wasn't a back up.
>>63466079
>>63467056
That's the chart I was talking about! Eli gets a boost because of the Bowls, but enough to overcome that? I don't think so.
>>63467135
So does Plunkett
Both got lucky and both don't deserve to be in the HOF.
>>63466972
It's pretty good actually. Maybe you don't remember watching it. After all, you thought he played freaking shitty. Ben won the game and was the most valuable player. Deserved it way more than Holmes.
He had a bad game in the first Super Bowl, but he carried the team on his back through those first three games. I don't need to look up the numbers because I remember them like it was yesterday. This tackle is the reason why Bettis made it into the Hall of Fame.
Ben should definitely get in, he's got the rings and the stats.
>>63467128
So why isn't Phil Simms in? He was NY too.
>Beating Brady
Manning wasn't on the defense that beat Brady.
>>63467198
Plunkett wasn't Dan Marino's brother and didn't ruin Joe Montana's perfect season. And he didn't play in New York.
Eli's going to get in for off the field reasons but he's going to get in.
>>63467104
are you fucking retarded? do you think the voters are going to sit around and talk about how he had a lower completion % than Ryan Tannehill or how he beat the team that has been a 2 decade dynasty twice in the super bowl, once when they were the greatest team of all time and was the MVP in both of them
>>63467207
God I remember that play
dat fucking heart
Ben made a promise to Bettis and he fucking meant it
>>63467207
He didn't play that well. Maybe your rose colored glasses are clouding things. Defense won both those Bowls, but they don't give MVPs to an entire defense.
>>63467251
Yes I do because otherwise other shit SB winning QBs would be in.
>>63467198
And I love how you keep glossing over the fact that Jim Plunkett was a bust and that he was the backup in the seasons that the Raiders won the SBs.
Not to mention his role in those SBs could have been played by a fucking broomstick. All he had to do with hand it off to Marcus Allen and have their defense blow out the opposing team.
>>63467251
I think, in today's game, stats are incredibly important, and voters are well aware of them.
>>63467287
well then i don't have to ask since you are indeed a fucking retard
>>63467267
The defense was chocking it bigtime during their first run. You obviously don't remember since you already made false statements and are now relying on googling statistics. Maybe try watching the actual games or at least looking up game summaries. Just goes to show the length people will go to hate on the guy.
Eli has never won a playoff game when the opponent scores more than 20 points.
Even Russell Wilson has managed that
>>63467299
>I think, in today's game, stats are incredibly important
They're probably less important because chucklefucks like Stafford can put up a 5,000 yard season.
The Bowls will always get noticed.
>>63467287
There are tons of shit QBs in the hall of fame.
Look, I know Eli blew your team out, but stop being mad about it
>Yfw Owl 50 with the special 50th Owl trophy is played in the state Rivers currently resides at.
>Yfw The Steelers play the Giants and Eli and Ben both have two rings already and no matter who loses they both meet up after the game and hug and embrace each other and Eli tells ben at least we aren't Phillip and confetti comes flying down and Phillip Rivers retires the next morning as reported by Adam S
>>63466354
or the entire Giants defensive line. they stuffed Brady and stopped him from dropping 6 TDs to Moss on that defense
>>63466640
>easiest Owl ever
the Bears were the best NFC team that year, defensively and offensively except for Grossman. Throw any QB a smidgen better than Grossman and Peyton would be 0-3.
>>63466752
>>63465750
>>63466230
these are correct.
Eli may be the worst QB (relative to his peers) to make the Hall, but he will. It will be because of 18-1 pts. 1 and 2 and because he's a Manning, and Archie will be lobbying big time because of the vicarious living his dream through his mediocre and/or choker sons that he has obviously doing for so long.
Ben will make it. He has the rings, and even if he looked like Terry Bradshaw at times he was still great. Definitely leaned on his defense often, though. Plus the rape thing might turn some voters off.
Rivers will make it, eventually. On the surface, he has the weakest case (no rings, no forever-memorable stuff like 18-1 or the Holmes TD, least successful of the three franchises. But he damn well deserves it. Anyone without mad homerism and knows football knows Eli is the worst of the Class of '04.
IMO
1. Roethlisberger
2. Rivers
[power gap]
99. Eli
but sometimes the universe doesn't turn out like we want it to.
>>63467364
But Eli threw that pass to Tyree and ended the perfect season.
That is a moment in NFL history and Eli is a key figure in it.
>>63467299
>in today's game, stats are incredibly important
fantasy fag shitter detected stats mean less now than they ever have espically with ever nerd with a statistics degree making up some new stat to try to revolutionize the NFL. NFL stats are one of the most worhtless things in any sport, its nothing like baseball where you can just look at a box score and know exactly what happened 99% of the time
>>63467363
>The defense was chocking it bigtime during their first run.
Are you kidding me right now? For one thing, I never said anything about the entire run, just that SB, and he was unequivocally bad while the defense was dominant. In the 2nd SB, he was better, but not great. I seem to remember an extremely long int for a touchdown by a certain linebacker that made a huge impact.
>and are now relying on googling statistics
Well, yeah, statistics are important, as has been discussed through this entire thread. Ben's regular season stats have improved over his career, but his playoff stats flat out stink.
>>63467416
>all these mad faggots
No one cares. Eli is getting in.
>>63467394
>They're probably less important because chucklefucks like Stafford can put up a 5,000 yard season.
Exactly! Eli's playing in that same era, and still is putting up shitty numbers. He's an average quarterback that got hot on two different occasions, and had the help of incredible defenses.
If it wasn't; for Eli manning, the 2011 Giants would have finished like 3-13.
>>63467425
He certainly has enough memorable moments, and will probably make the HoF. But in terms of talent, he's not very good.
>>63467470
doesn't change the fact that he sucks, senpai
>>63467503
>and had the help of incredible defenses
DID YOU WATCH 2011 GIANTS?
Their defense was terrible.
Counting stats matter a lot for Hall of Fame. Eli is going to have played a shit ton of games by the time he retires and given the era and sheer volume he'll be pretty high in terms of Career Yards and Career TDs. Throw some of those ranks in with the two SB Wins and MVPs and I think he'll get in.
>>63467437
I've seen enough of Eli to know, apart from the rare playoff appearance, that he's not a very good quarterback.
>>63467543
>DID YOU WATCH 2011 GIANTS?
The defense that held the Pats to 17 points? Yeah, I did. They got hot at the right time too.
>>63465629
The greatest injustice in Canton is and always will be Kenny Anderson not being inducted.
>>63467543
Yeah they had shit defense minus JPP and really shit running game that year. Eli to Cruz/Nicks was everything
>>63467543
Did you watch their playoffs? They were unstoppable and dominated the two best offenses in the league
>>63467416
this is the worst post on /sp/. you have no idea how happy it makes me to see how titanically ass ravaged you faggots still are about being BTFO by an autist twice
Rivers has had elite talent on offense since he came into the league. Hes padded his stats against a weak division his whole career as well.
Eli has had mediocre talent at best. His best receiver before OBJ was Cruz, and UDFA.
Ben is a rapist and got carried in his two SB wins and choked for a third.
I think only one of them gets in.
>>63467543
not in the playoffs, it wasn't. just like how the '07 Pats defense was above-average during the season but the O-line just collapsed and Brady got stuffed all game long.
>>63467592
who's mad?
>>63467459
No, I'm not kidding you. You're just wasting my time with mental gymnastics now. If you're the same guy who said he played shitty in the second Super Bowl, the whole reason I replied to that nonsense, then I can tell you have no actual recollection of anything from then or earlier.
>>63467589
>>63467582
So you didn't watch. Their defense was absolutely awful minus JPP.
Like >>63467585
said, in 2011, they had no running game, no pass defense and had to rely on Eli and Cruz to make it anywhere.
Also, the Giants with Kevin Gilbride were a running team, that's why his stats aren't the greatest thing ever.
>>63467416
>may be the worst QB (relative to his peers) to make the Hall, but he will. It will be because of 18-1 pts. 1 and 2 and because he's a Manning, and Archie will be lobbying big time because of the vicarious living his dream through his mediocre and/or choker sons that he has obviously doing for so long.
sounds like you mad homie
>>63467675
Then you must think Flacco was the greatest ever in his SB run.
>>63467647
Holy fuck this.
Eli Manning has almost never had good offensive talent.
His best offensive talent was a 500 year old Amani Toomer, Victor Cruz and Odell Beckham Jr.
Those where his best WRs from his career. He's had one really good running back his whole career in Brandon Jacobs.
>>63465629
>ben and eli both have two rings
>both ben and eli had two of the most memorable owls ever
>rivers has 0 (zero)
Nah, rivers racks up a lot of yards but throws picks and chokes when it counts. At the end of the day W's are what matters.
>>63467675
the steelers D was responsible for every victory in Ben's first Owl run. you either has the most rose tinted glasses imaginable or never actually watched it and just buy into the bettis farewell tour bullshit
>>63467687
Dude, they held the Patriots to 17 points. That's a pretty damn big luxury when the offense only needs 21 points to win a game.
All he has to do is become the new iron man and break Farve's record of consectives starts then he'll be considered some sort of Bret Marino nigga. Sure fire hall of famer for sure. He fucking loves football and has the passion for it enough to stay in the game as long as Favre has and he is a fucking giant up close and is tough is nails. But Eli's retard strengh is in the way of that too. Fuck
>>63467803
The Patriots in 2011 where a mediocre team in a horrible division.
Eli has two Superbowl rings.
One of them from one of the most famous ones.
He just made the top ten list for all time TDs with a few playing years to go; I suspect he'll retire 6th or 7th on the list.
He'll be in the HoF.
>>63467803
>one game invalidates a whole season
you're also disregarding that the pats would have won the game twice if Welker could catch and the D almost gave up a hail mary to Gronk. the giants D was shit that year
>>63467820
Go back to the 2011 Patriots schedule.
They faced two teams that finished above .500, the Steelers and the Giants.
They lost to both of them.
>>63467820
Mediocre? They made it to the SB. They scored 45 and 23 points in their other 2 playoff games. The 17 points the Giants held them to tied their lowest score of the entire season.
>>63467820
>Mediocre
>8 pro bowlers
>>63467756
Yes, I'll easily admit it was impressive. The 4th and 30 (or whatever) screen pass to Rice bailed him out big time, as did a couple PI calls.
>>63467781
No they weren't. It's not the defense that wins the game just because your QB gets the offense the lead early. Even so, Ben had more 4th quarter comeback wins through his first two seasons than any QB ever. His first Super Bowl was pretty much his first bad game of his career.
>>63467898
>Tim Tebow's broncos
Eli has more TD passes and more yards than Big "Faggot" Ben
>>63467916
>No they weren't. It's not the defense that wins the game just because your QB gets the offense the lead early. Even so, Ben had more 4th quarter comeback wins through his first two seasons than any QB ever. His first Super Bowl was pretty much his first bad game of his career.
hahahaha way to prove you never even watched the team during that time. Ben was absolute shit his entire rookie year and had the D drag his ass to 15-1 or 14-2 i forget which. He then pretty much single handily lost the playoff game or they would have won 2 in a row. you're fucking embarrassing yourself.
>>63467781
That and Bettis was still useful. It was common to see Ben put up 11/15 for 165 type numbers during those early years. Not a fan, but he definitely grew into his role.
>>63467803
Given how bad the Pats defense was (so was the Giants, also a 9-win team), either team could have won that game. Even simulations only favor the Patriots just because of Brady and the offense, and the sims include Gronk, who didn't actually play.
I think we can all agree the Pats win handily if Gronk was playing in SB46. But he wasn't, it could have gone either way. Not even mad at this point, but 16+2 still hurts
>>63467994
It was 15-1
>>63467768
Dude Nicks was a Top5 WR for a couple years and was DOMINANT during the 2011 playoffs. Bittersweet to watch highlights cuz he used to have crazy burst. Also Burress was good. And he Tiki when he was really good and Bradshaw was an above average back.
>>63468013
disregard the second part of that post. gronk was playing but not at 100%
>>63468023
Yeah I just remembed it because the loss was to the Pats and Belichick made Ben shit the bed on national TV. this dude very obviously never watched a game of football during that time if he thought Ben's first bad game was in the Owl
>>63468013
Brady still had Hernandez and Welker. Gronk was hurt in SB46 but both teams were dealing with injuries. The starting MLB, Blackburn, was a substitute teacher a month before the Owl.
I think only 2 players were voted to the Pro Bowl from the Giants that season.
>>63468131
Holy fuck, he said that? Big Ben from 2004-2007 was useless during that time frame.
He eventually because a great QB, but he wasn't worth fuck all during that time.
>>63466865
Top 3 bro
to make the hall you should have a measure of postseason success + be a top tier player statistics wise during your era
>Eli
2 superbowls, 2 sb mvps
stats: very marginal here but probably makes it on bulk alone, should have over 50k yards and close to 400 tds by the end
>HOF
>Ben
2 superbowls, 3 appearances
stats: always been a top tier qb and should also have 50k yards and 300tds by the end
>HOF
>Philly Riv
Nothing despite having great teams in the late 2000s
stats: the best of the bunch but not by much
>Doesn't make it due to lack of playoff success
>>63468077
Nicks was soild that year. He drew so many pass interference calls that post season. Too bad his hamstrings imploded.
I think the main thing is offensive players for the Giants have always had trouble staying healthy, the exception being Eli.
>>63468194
jej
Gtfo with your bias.
>>63468194
Rice
Reed
Carter
Nigga wasn't even top 3 in the time he played.
>>63468420
He was better than Andre lets be real
>Game literally shows "Career TDs stat"
>Rivers behind Eli
>>63468328
Yeah they've had bad luck getting WRs to be good through more than one contract--but in general they've done a good job surrounding him with receivers. Steve Smith and Manningham were also solid.
And can't undersell how great that Diehl/Seubert/Ohara/Snee/McKenzie line was for a while. Of course Reese was way too late to restock after these guys
>>63468279
>Carson
No postseason success as of yet but could change this year
Stats: similar level to Eli, ben and rivers
>HOF status: highly unlikely
>Arodg
Superbowl
Stats: Best qb passer rating ever, highly efficient should easily approach 350+ tds and 50k yards
>HOF status: close to a lock
>Flacco
superbowl
Stats: terrible, unefficient and only looks worse now he jewed the team out of most of its cap
HOF status: very unlikely
>Ryan
No postseason success as of yet
Stats: was trending upwards but has plateaud
>HOF Status: unlikely unless his team wins and he puts together a couple mvp caliber seasons stat wise
>>63468520
Eli's played a bunch more games.
>>63468520
He's started two more seasons than Rivers
