Could Neanderthals have been another race of modern man, or are they too distinct to be considered a race? This also goes for anything from Erectus to Habilis.
Subspecies is the most controversial yet best fit descriptor desu
>>8142627
So it's not just racial difference? Ok then.
>>8142647
It's a serious question. I'm a layman, I don't completely how one would distinguish a really weird-looking human from a normal-looking Neanderthal.
>>8142652
*I don't completely know how one
>>8142652
looks don't matter in light of genetic evidence.
that's why many now consider Neanderthals to be a subspecies of H. sapiens.
it's also the reason science quit using race.
>>8142664
But didn't Neanderthals come from Heidelbergensis while Sapiens came from Rhodesiensis?
>>8142668
I don't know and it doesn't matter.
we bred with them repeatedly and produced viable hybrid offspring.
this argues for them being our species, no matter how long ago they split off or how they evolved after the split.
>>8142675
I think of them as distant cousins. Think of it like this: lions and tigers can produce hybrid offspring, but we don't consider them the same species. Same genus, different species.
>>8142683
>Think of it like this: lions and tigers can produce hybrid offspring
you skipped a word in the comparison.
>viable
It's the word that matters in this case.
not to say there aren't any examples of viable hybrids in the animal kingdom, just that when you run into them it argues for them being the same species. It really also depends how often they actually breed.
>>8142625
>pic fails to identify sagittal crest
>>8142715
neither of those species have a sagittal keel.
it's called a sagittal keel in Homo species because, unlike a sagittal crest, it doesn't anchor jaw muscles.
>>8142704
It was the same thing with us. It was a very small chance, just like how female ligers are viable, while males aren't. I think the current theory is that male Neanderthals mate with female sapiens (take from that what you will) and the offspring of those would've been viable, but not the other way around.
>>8142741
*mated
>>8142741
yeah, Haldane's rule.
>>8142683
>Think of it like this: lions and tigers can produce hybrid offspring,
But the offspring are sterile... Like mules (or is that donkeys?).
In any case, "Race" is interchangeable with "Breed". You can have quite a lot of morphological variance, and still be the same species (not even sub species) but different breeds (pic related).
Toxicological definitions aren't always so hard and fast though.
>>8142753
Well it seems that they were....."fucked over!"
>>8142765
Human to human - 99.9%
Human to neanderthal - 99.5%
Human to chimpanzee - 98.8%
Also, depends on which are mating. One mixture may produce viable offspring, while the other produces sterile offspring.
>>8142741
Man, can you imagine what society would be like if they were still around and integrated? We'd all be wife swapping back and forth and making all sorts of crazy arranged three-way marriages to all have viable children. (Nevermind what /pol/ would be like.)
>>8142770
yep. But I think what would happen is if lions and tigers regularly produced viable hybrids in the wild there'd be at least discussion of synonymizing them.
For example coyoteXwolf and grizzlyXpolar bear hubrids are fairly common and generally fertile, so there's constant discussion about whether or not they should be considered the same species.
>>8142647
>Can't discuss science that offends my sensibilities and opinions
You aren't even hiding the fact that it's dogma anymore are you?
Are dog breeds social constructs?
>>8144227
No, they're the product of "intelligent design."
neanderthals weren't human. homo s + neanderthal had 40% reduced fertility -> not same species
>>8142652
>how one would distinguish a really weird-looking human
by taking dna samples is the best way
by the way fun fact:
you have 2 times more viral dna than neanderthal dna in your genome
>>8144598
Then we have shit like this where people who aren't even qualified for the job try telling us what's what.
>>8144632
Except for those guys on the far right. At least they have *some* qualifications for the job.
>>8142625
If you want to answer this question you need to answer the question of what a species is. The answer to that question varies from person to person, situation to situation, moment to moment. We really have no idea what actually separates a species.
Bump with a bumble.
>>8142734
thank you for this,
I did not know the difference
between "crest" and "keel"
>>8142765
>"Race" is interchangeable with "Breed"
... if you're an American in the Deep South.
>>8144639
>Young Earth Creationist
fgt pls
>>8144598
>neanderthals weren't human
... says the faggot with no background.
>>8147925
He's an old-earther.
>>8142741
Actually I think it was the other way around. Male homo sapiens could mate with female neanderthals
>>8148879
They *could* mate, but it would produce sterile offspring.
>>8149030
>tfw you will never be a sapien bull cucking neanderthals left right and centre with your beautiful slim physique and aesthetic facial structure
