I am aware that this question is usually asked much, but what exactly is a Psycopath. What key differences do they have between average humans, hence why I am not using Google.
I want to observe the different opinions on what it actually is.
>>8020906
the difference is a thing we like to call
pseudoscience
>>8020906
A person who employs strategies that are seen as unconventional when viewed with empathy.
>>8020911
This. We are all psychopaths s psychopaths are us. But the most important fact is that in every psychopath we are there with them.
When an infant is not given enough attention and loving physical contact, it creates a psychological baseline which to the average person seems extreme.
The psychopath goes on to produce children anyway, so the survival strategy works.
>>8020906
A psychopath is a man who behaves like an average woman.
>>8020906
You would be much better off looking up the wikipedia page than expecting answers here.
>>8020906
Psychopathy is a term used for more extreme situations, but basically the way to think about it is sociopathy to the extent of being delusional and negatively affecting ones or another's life.
Sociopathy is categorized primarily by anti-social behaviors. And contrary to popular belief, being a dweeb playing video games in your basement isn't what "anti-social" is referring to. Someone who is anti-social doesn't comprehend societal norms and expectencies, and thus does not live through them. This can range from simply not giving a shit about people because you're narsicistic enough to entertain yourself, to killing people for fun.
Basically, you will see a common thread will all "psychopaths," extremely anti-social behaviors, lack of empathy, extreme narcissism, and extreme cynicism. This generally doesnt lead someone to go on killing sprees unless they're extremely delusional.
>>8020906
Psychopaths lack guilt, empathy, and maybe fear compared to normal individuals.
you'd need all these traits to be considered a psychopath, but you can have one of them and not be a psychopath.
>>8021197
This is the most accurate post here. They tend towards being addicts as well, they do seem to experience fear differently, but adrenaline is still released, so they take stupid risks. It is not something you would want to be.
>>8021197
>Psychopaths lack guilt, empathy
... and a Y chromosome
"I sat down to think things over a bit. While I was sitting there, a little kid about eleven or twelve years old came bumming around. He was looking for something. He found it too. I took him out to a gravel pit about one quarter miles away. I left him there, but first committed sodomy on him and then killed him. His brains were coming out of his ears when I left him, and he will never be any deader."
"I believe the only way to reform people is to kill them"
"I don't believe in man, God nor Devil. I hate the whole damned human race, including myself... I preyed upon the weak, the harmless and the unsuspecting. This lesson I was taught by others : Might makes right."
"Hurry it up, I could hang a dozen men while your fooling around."
"In my lifetime I have broken every law that was ever made by both man and God", he said, "If either had made any more, I should very cheerfully have broken them also."
Carl Panzram
This is a quote from a psychopat, if you want answers, to what make them different than us.
Read this.
http://www.serialkillercalendar.com/Serial-Kilelr-quotes.html
>>8020906
A person who completely lacks the ability of empathy
>>8020906
You realize you can just go to google rather than asking for the opinions of a bunch of jackasses who watched a documentary or two, right?
https://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Psychopathy
Here's one for the Hare psychopathy checklist as well - largely considered the best diagnostic resource to date.
https://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Psychopathy_Checklist
>inb4 hurr durr wikipedia
Fuck off - it's accurate. Everything is cited at the bottom if you have doubts.
>>8020906
As other anons have said, a lack of empathy is a baseline characteristic. What also sets them apart is that they process their emotions differently than non-psychopaths. I can't remember the specific structure, but a study was done on the brain of a psychopath and it was found that he (or she) had a smaller midbrain structure.
They're very good at being charming and charismatic, too. It's nothing anyone can't do, though. But another point of contrast is this; although they do lack empathy, they can still act empathetical towards someone. The difference is that for them, it's quite hard to do. A normal person can handle a heavily emotional discussion easier than a psychopath. For psychopaths, being (acting) empathic is work for them.
>>8020906
Psychopathy is not an official diagnostic term and as such just gets lumped together by none clinicians who describe them as someone with a lack of empathy and societal standards. However this broad definition makes little distiction between what are actually multiple different behaviors (poor impulse control vs the stereotypical cold blooded "mastermind" vs autism like understanding) and as such require different treatments and different views on the mechanism of the appropriate disorder.
>>8020906
The functional definition of a psychopath is 'intra-species predator'. There's a primary, essential variant (born that way) and a secondary one (made that way). The former never had the neurological capacity to develop a conscience while the latter has been trained to mute its signals.
A pathogenic culture is characterized by a rising percentage of psychopaths because they 'naturally' gravitate into positions of power and modify the social environment and its set of values 'in their image'. Psychopathy is not an illness, it is rather a state of being.
Failed psychopaths may land in prison while the successful psychopath is usually a very charming, highly intelligent persona (e.g. the 'silver-tongued spell binder' archetype) who loves to leave behind a trail of destroyed lives of normal people unaware of the signs that should raise a red flag and of the practical shields required when dealing with deviants.
Are psychopaths evil? Is a cat evil that plays with the mouse it caught before killing it? Each according to the nature of being.
>>8023212
>A pathogenic culture is characterized by a rising percentage of psychopaths because they 'naturally' gravitate into positions of power and modify the social environment and its set of values 'in their image'. Psychopathy is not an illness, it is rather a state of being.
>Failed psychopaths may land in prison while the successful psychopath is usually a very charming, highly intelligent persona (e.g. the 'silver-tongued spell binder' archetype) who loves to leave behind a trail of destroyed lives of normal people unaware of the signs that should raise a red flag and of the practical shields required when dealing with deviants.
This brings clarity to the notion that those that seek to acquire power are exactly the people who shouldn't be allowed to have it. I've always thought that as long as you're allowing such people to reach positions of power in a government, it ultimately makes no difference what laws are in place.
>>8020906
traditionally defined as a personality disorder characterized by enduring antisocial behavior, diminished empathy and remorse, and disinhibited or bold behavior.
>>8020906
A neurotic is someone who feels oppressed by the rules.
A sociopath is someone who knows there are rules, but believes those rules don't apply to them.
A psychopath doesn't know there are rules.
Neurotics build castles in the sky.
Psychopaths live in them.
Psychiatrists collect the rent.
>>8020906
>average humans
I've heard that one in twenty of even one in ten people is a psychopath. That makes them pretty damn "normal" by any decent statistical analysis.
>>8023212
Wait that sounds like Elon Musk.
>>8021153
>wikipedia
>over /sci/
>>8021162
>delusional and negatively affecting ones or another's life
You haven't read up on psychopathy at all have you? I can tell you haven't because you haven't.
>>8021197
Also stress immunity can't forget the based stress immunity.
>>8020906
Someone who's capacity for empathy and social learning is compromised.
For instance, rats without oxytocin.
>>8021654
Psychopathy is an actual condition recognized in the DSM. The traits, when they went looking, appeared in a larger subset of the population than the ones that went on to become serial killers. If a psychopath decides to commit murder, nothing is gonna stop them. The same logic applies to other people too, it just takes longer for them to come to terms with it.
>>8021719
>wikipedia
Well shit, if a /sci/entist wants to tell me to trust Wikipedia...
I should point out I've self-diagnosed myself as a psychopath. This is now a legit AMA. My source is Wikipedia's trait list. The big tell is stress immunity, but the more I analyzed the traits on the list, the more I realized what they were talking about and the more I realized they applied to me.
I'm gonna go with an active demonstration tactic here, specifically >>8020916 and manipulating the fact that you can't stand how I just described medical student's disease.
I'll give you a hint: Sometimes self-diagnosis is accurate. Some is not most.
>>8023296
Like autism?
(I'm just learning about aspergers and autism and what you describe really sounds similar)
>>8022732
>it's quite hard to do
No it isn't. I don't think you really understand what it's like to have stress immunity. Also superficial charm is completely bullshit trait. It's not our fault you guys don't understand our clever remarks.
The key is to understand that cognitive empathy and affective empathy are the same exact thing, but they get processed in different way. I virtually always know how people feel, and possibly because of that it wouldn't work for me to feel your emotions "telepathically." I'd be an emotional wreck if I tuned in to everyone else's experiences.
>>8022794
>not an official diagnostic term
Umbrella terms don't stop being diagnostic terms just because your psychologists are ignorant on a mass scale. Yes, most psychopaths are gonna be high functioning psychopaths but the traits are real.
Suffice it to say, "neurotypicals" have a hard time telling sociopaths and psychopaths apart. One is consistently pathological in terms of their defining traits and the other isn't. Both are liable to be able to trick the average psychiatrist into giving them any diagnosis they want.
>people not knowing the difference between empathy and sympathy
>>8023305
>Well shit, if a /sci/entist wants to tell me to trust Wikipedia...
What part "fuck off, it's cited at the bottom if you have doubts" don't you understand, you fucking inbred?
The Hare Psychopathy Checklist isn't a "Wikipedia" checklist - Wikipedia just happens to have an article on it. It's the most popular and well known diagnostic tool to date.
I really hope for your sake you're trolling.
>>8023212
>the neurological capacity to develop a conscience
You're talking completely out of your ass, son. But that was a given.
>>8023212
>in their image
Politicians aren't psychopathic on a normative basis. You're right in that society itself can get sick, but psychopaths tend to lack the ego necessary to give a shit how society is shaped. What destroys culture the way you describe is the sociopathic tendencies in the populations, and not all sociopathic tendencies are restricted to the portion of the sociopath population that you would describe as pathological in terms of their traits.
>>8023212
>a state of being
Every mood is a state of being. Psychopaths exist in a chronic state of calm. Saying that we have our own localized mood-type means nothing in terms of our actual behaviors. It's equivalent to saying all people have emotions; we already know. To really contribute to a discussion about psychopathy, you need to be able to see psychopaths as human. As and when you skew it as if we aren't, you advocate for genocide no matter how directly or indirectly.
>>8023212
>(e.g. the 'silver-tongued spell binder' archetype)
Gross. Absolutely disgusting. Psychopaths have a much higher tendency to be asexuals than this PUA bullshit you're projecting. We already know you're talking out of your ass, but where do you get off trying to say we're all the most disgusting archetype imaginable? Fuck off.
>>8023212
>cat
>mouse
Your post was complete and total shit. You should feel bad for trying to suggest that psychopaths are one type of person. What you've neglected to mention? >>8022732
>it's quite hard to do
It isn't. When a psychopath is charitable, they are EXTREME in their charitability. They lack whatever limitations make "neurotypicals" hesitate in giving away the house. They have no principles to slow it down or preferences to divert the cash flow. They don't skim off the top because they don't value the money or resources they'd steal beyond their immediate use.
>>8023230
>it ultimately makes no difference what laws are in place
You don't need psychopathy or sociopathy to see that. Neurotypicals can be tricked into abuse of power just by thrusting them into positions of power without proper training or guidelines. You can't think in terms of types of people when you make a system or government, you have to think in terms of tendencies. Not everyone is going to express the same tendencies in all the same types of situations. If you're as knowledgeable as you pretend to appear, you'll know exactly which experiment I'm talking about.
>>8023332
This.
For me the defining trait is being able to go to sleep when I intend to and wake up when I intend to. I can't ever recall having the desire to sleep in. I read somewhere that this was common. That's when I knew for sure. My wife doesn't understand it, but she doesn't understand a lot of things.
>>8023244
>traditionally defined
Yes, but those traits were too board to assess. It resulted in mass paranoia and suspicion that ruins lives. There are a number of wildly different mental disorders that could be described that way and to treat them all as the same thing was immoral. Not lobotomy levels of immoral, but proper diagnosis is critical to any treatment paradigm that wants to be better than "just lobotomize the lot of them."
>>8023263
>A psychopath doesn't know there are rules.
This, for the most part. We *KNOW*, consciously, that society upholds rules, but we can't imagine a way for them to actually matter in any real sense.
Even now, I can't imagine why rules would matter.
Weren't people just going to be themselves no matter how we structured the rules?
>>8023282
You can't look at someone from afar and diagnose them with any mental disorder, mental conditions, pathological personality traits, or any other type of judgement without casually destroying someone's life. The moment you accept that you can judge from afar, you accept that others might, and they will always be horrid at it. Character judgment is a hard, hard problem, and stereotypes don't make it any easier.
>>8023296
>compromised
Not so much compromised as irrelevant. I can memorize a set of manners and customs easily. I just won't care, of my own volition, what they are.
>>8023298
>The same logic applies to other people too
In that, if someone's decided to commit murder, you'll generally find out before you can prevent it. Psychopaths are non-unique in their ability to hide their thoughts if they really want to. Everyone can if they have something to hide.
Actually, maybe not everyone. Some people do cave under pressure so I guess that's something I can't really relate to properly enough to have confidence in my analysis of it.
>>8023312
>autism
Yes, it's not wrong to think of psychopathy as high functioning autism. Remember that psychopaths can pass themselves off as completely normal.
>>8023375
Milgram. You make a good point. And it's probably a good thing anyways, while I don't see any way to eliminate power seekers from government, there should be some way to eliminate the perverse incentives that tempt "neurotypicals" to take advantage.
>>8023338
Neurotypicals don't either. You can't really diagnose anyone on the basis of a single misunderstanding.
>>8023356
Somewhat. I actually trust the list given there, it's just that if we're going to go by that list it's the one I used to self-diagnose so I'm gonna be loud about it.
Actual psychopath here. AMA.
>>8023403
What about a lottery system like Jury duty?
>>8023386
>I can't ever recall having the desire to sleep in.
I've been messing with kind of pseudoselfhypnosis for awhile to kind of "cure" myself and I actually had the desire to sleep in the other day. It was nice, I really felt comfortable and I just wanted to keep dreaming. Literally the first time in my life that I actually felt bad about getting up. My advice for an empathically aspiring psychopath would be to not force yourself to have emotions. Artificial situations that you're able to control won't give you true emotions and they won't help you understand what true emotions are like.
>>8023386
>My wife doesn't understand it, but she doesn't understand a lot of things.
Hah, that's actually a pretty psychopathic stance. It's like built-in Bayesian levels of clarity. "Here's a piece of evidence, but also there's a world of evidence surrounding it that we ought to take into account."
>>8023403
>Milgram
That's the one. I've thought that maybe systems of governance would work better if we had psychopaths design them (because of the inherent impartiality we have), but lately I feel like such a system would literally be hell to work in and it'd just make people not want to participate at all. We can't exactly have half the police force quitting one day because their working conditions don't let have any real control over the job they have to do.
>eliminate power seekers
That doesn't work. Seeking power isn't an inherently bad thing. All those kids that grow up playing cops and robbers and wanting to be cops are generally going to be decent people. It's the circumstances, situations and opportunities that make otherwise wholly to mostly decent people go sour. Personally I think we could do a lot just with studying postal workers that "go postal." Look for patterns in why they do it and see if that pressure generalizes to other professions. Most abuse of power probably isn't a result of stress, but some of probably would be so we'd learn more either way.
>>8023413
That breeds apathy. Again, it's about the motive for gaining power. Most police officers aren't crooked cops. The conditions that make dirty cops possible have to be understood fully before it'd be smart to use psychology to engineer a civilization.
As dehumanizing as it sounds, you have to think in terms of the government providing a service, and their quality of service is absolute shit. No matter how many innocent people get locked up or have their lives ruined, you have to depersonalize how it makes you feel and treat it as a quality of service issue. Granted, I've never actually recommended this method of problem solving to anyone, so I can offer no quality assurance that this method won't have catastrophic side-effects that nobody notices until it's too late.
>>8023427
Perhaps I'm speaking out of a little bit of ignorance because you seem to be very interested in this subject. I think I have emotions. I certainly have desires, relief I would say is a big one for me, I have known to be agitated and abrupt or aggressive.
However, I know that I've never felt joy, but I have felt contentedness.
After contemplating it some years ago, I think I'm playing life like a game instead of "living" it like other people. I can't account for it really beyond that statement.
>>8023473
BTW, I'm the married sleep-guy
>>8023453
>Personally I think we could do a lot just with studying postal workers that "go postal".
I think that's too atypical. I'm more interested in general abuse of powers, like forum moderators. Yeah, someone should do a study on why forum moderators always end up abusing their power.
>>8023473
>>8023481
There's not much I can really say based on your self-analysis. Again, psychopaths are normal people for the most part (or else able to pass off as normal people) so I wouldn't really be able to tell anything about your traits and tendencies from what you've just said. Our diversity as a species is really pretty amazing in that regard.
>>8023508
>like forum moderators
That's harder, because not everyone agrees on what abuse is. I've never been in a position to ban someone for the sake of the community, but there were always people that I wanted to unban but who weren't going to behave even if I stood up for them. Sometimes you just have to let the community push people away for the sake of having a community at all. It's not nice, it's not fun to watch, but it's part of the process of making the site/community work. Some people ultimately just don't belong.
(Obviously this doesn't apply to 4chan since it's a pure content site, but I can see where you're coming from based on my experience in other, more user-based communities.)
>>8020906
Someone lacking or resilient to the mental exploit known as empathy.
>>8023628
>mental exploit
Ex-psychopath here.
Can confirm empathy is not an exploit. Gullibility is.
>>8023722
>Ex-psychopath here
Do you mean self aware psycho? I don't think you suddenly grow empathy or a pre-frontal cortex.
>>8023628
>mental exploit
Empathy is a useful inter-personal trait, the capacity to understand someone and perceive their point of view / experiences makes it easier to persuade and influence them.
This is one reason why the idea of the intelligent and charming psychopath is so prevalent, because in order to attain a perceived level of empathy they learn to cold read others and adapt their behaviour and traits to social situations where appropriate, 'wearing a mask' as it were.
Of course, not all psychopaths have the impulse control or the capacity to do so, but nobody likes to romanticize those it seems.
>>8023808
The ability to gauge the emotions of others is useful. But the mental condition of having your own feelings swayed by emotions of others beyond your control is an exploit.
>>8023758
>you suddenly grow empathy or a pre-frontal
Alright. If you can grow up your entire life never feeling empathy and then figure out how to trigger it some day and feel it for the first time in your life, knowing exactly what it is, I'll accept your opinion on the matter as potentially valid. Until then I think I'll just stick with trusting my own experiences on the matter, if it's all the same to you.
Fun fact: I also developed a stutter when I triggered my latent capacity for affective empathy.
>INB4wasn't psychopathy
>INB4criticism of self-diagnosis
>INB4medical student's disease
>>8023815
>another
Empathy has nothing to do with gullibility. Trust me, I've lived both sides of this.
>>8023827
>having your own feelings swayed by emotions of
>beyond your control
It's never actually beyond your control. Discipline varies per individual, and everyone is capable of attaining Zen Buddhism style enlightenment. I had to make myself moderately gullible before I could trigger my empathy, but now that I've experiment with it personally I can explain to other psychopaths how to do it without risks and worries.
>>8020906
Ohh. You're the faggot in YouTube comment sections that keeps diagnosing people as psychopaths and sociopaths.
>>8021197
This is wrong, there are varying degrees of psychopathy. It works along a spectrum. While they seem unempathetic they actually are very empathetic, but they do not understand emotions. Basically they understand when someone is sad but they are unable to understand the sadness in and of itself. They typically lack remorse and generally behave without emotional attachment to the world which is why they are keen manipulators, they can relate emotion without actually giving it any leverage. Furthermore they are far more common than anyone might actually imagine, as psychopathy is not necessarily a catalyst for violence or social disruption. Politicians and CEOs are very commonly found to be psychopaths. Only in extreme cases is the psychopath actually turned into a violent person, like extreme childhood traumas.
>>8023332
I know you must feel all high and mighty with your cute little tripfag name but take a second more to read my comment. The simple fact it is not used in the medical industry is means it is not a diagnostic term. And saying that all psychologist are "ignorant" just makes you look like a child.
My point is that there is no official definition for psychopathy and the term is practically meaningless because it encompasses such a wide variety of unrelated, in terms of treatment and causes, disorders.
Flaunt all you want but you can't point to anywhere these terms are defined by an internationally recognized source so what these terms actually mean are subjective depending in the course and are therefore not reasonable to use in research and treatment. Only pop culture and cliche movies.
>>8023827
No more or less than having zero impulse control.
These things can always be controlled, if one has the cognition to be aware of them.
>>8023896
Sorry, you're right. I should have pointed out that the ignorance was just you, not psychology in general. My mistake.
