Hello sci/
I'm not very educated when it comes to the sciences. I did well at my academy, and took rudimentary courses in college. My passion in life is reading and writing. The latter has taken some of my time lately.
I want to write a story set in a high fantasy universe - highly original I know. I wanted to have a lot of the subject matter be sound to the average reader however: iron is iron. You forge it to make rudimentary steel, copper with a little tin makes bronze, and so on. I do not want any kind of wacky, new metal that trumps them all.
I do want different kinds of metals brought into the equation. Like a steel word imbued with a little aluminum to give it a lighter build. If that is even possible that is. I want some of you chemists and blacksmiths on here to recommend things I can read on this subject. If you could, you could even suggest some various things I could add into this world's metallurgy to make it seem grounded despite being set in fantasy. Thank you and I look forward to any help offered
>inb4 just fold it 9000 times
https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=8E6TzT0eCYs
https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=vyUkYJeZtW4
I don't know much about the actual metallurgy but these videos should help you avoid the most common mistakes.
Also, be sure you don't just rewrite the Lord of the Rings.
>>7992775
Have a sword made of tungsten carbide just because
>>7992919
Thank you very much, they will help.
That's exactly what I am trying to not do. I want the universe to feel original despite having some elements one cannot avoid but also use like Tolkien did.
>>7992927
Do you have any pictures of it? I'm interested
>>7992939
No I mean you should write it into the story. Have some group use tungsten carbide weapons, its like steel but denser and stronger
>>7992958
Just looking into it, looks like they'd have to caste the weapons rather than forge them using hammer and anvil like bronze, iron, and steel.
https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=Cytuz142KJs
The wiki, shit source but good start, says the same thing. It is denser and stronger.
Have you held your tungsten-carbide sword lately? It is denser and stronger, that makes it heavier does it not?
>>7992961
That'd be neat, kind of like pioneers in the American West did with steel and iron or the Japs did with their swords
>>7992775
It's a tough question because blades need to have the right combination of characteristics, like being able to hold an edge, not too brittle, etc. which isn't terribly common in a lot of metals and alloys, therefore the choices of blade materials are limited. Depending on how technical you want to get though, there are modern non-traditional alloys with elements such as Chromium and Nickel, and modification of nano-structural elements to produce high performance alloys. If I recall correctly, the term is "superalloy." Whether or not materials like this would be suitable for a sword, I couldn't say.
>>7992939
For fighting you should watch Scholagladiatoria and Lindybeige. Easton if your story is set in a 'medieval' sort of world and Lloyd if it's more dark/migration era or ancient.
Again, I don't really know the finer details but pattern welding (folding/braiding) fell out of fashion in Europe because of finer (as in fewer/better distributed impurities) steels from ex.Toledo becoming more widely available around the end of the migration era. You may wish to have some parallel to this in your story. People generally recognize the twisty/wavy swords as being older than the relatively 'smooth' ones they see in museums so it would feel 'right'.
Also:
http://www.oakeshott.org/typo.html
>>7992971
I see what you're saying: they need to be strong enough to use yet supple enough to hold an edge and not weigh two tons. I'll look into superalloys and see what turns up, thank you.
>>7992973
The book would be set in a time akin to our High Middle Ages. Not just Europe either.
I've seen some blades using "Damascus steel" and have those waves in them. Thanks for the link, that is very useful
>>7992939
>>7992958
>>7992966
Just realized when you wrote "Have a sword made of tungsten carbide just because" you meant
You should have a sword made of tungsten carbide just because
not
>I have a sword made of tungsten carbide just because
My bad
Also, it seems that many royal blades had writing, etching, artwork, and other ornaments on them. I will add this in for some of the noble and royal characters
>>7992775
>>Like a steel word imbued with a little aluminum to give it a lighter build
Hahahahahahaha no. Alloying does not really buy you much in terms of weight savings. Current day spring steel is pretty much the ideal thing to make swords with. You don't really add much to spring steel, at best for stainless spring steel you add chromium manganese and nickel.
Here's some compositions
https://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Spring_steel
Honestly for this sort of thing it's really more important that you have really fucking low sulfur content than anything else. Because this makes steel brittle.
You certainly won't get much of a magical performance gain.
>>7992939
>>7992958
We don't make swords from tungsten carbide. and for a good reason. It's really hard, but it's brittle as fuck! As soon as you smashed it into another sword, it'd shatter.
Maybe one could do some weird functionally graded stuff so it's more resistant to shattering, like only concentrating the tungsten carbide on the edge.
Now if we're talking crazy fantasy metal stuff of dubious practicality, my vote's for metal matrix composites. Still probably brittle, but they can be lighter and stronger than just plain alloying.
Or hey, if you have magic and shit make your sword be made of metal foam in the middle, that will make it lighter without compromising strength much
Consider asking >>>/k/
Make the edge have carbon nanotubes and the flat be layered with graphene. Carbon nanotubes make everything better.
>>7993003
I did, but the only bites I got were trolls saying "fold it 9000 times like the chinks", or "just watch more of your Chinese cartoons for help"
One guy did suggest that I limit the sizes of my swords because they were expensive historically and spears were the common weapon of foot soldiers. That was good to know
>>7993001
Yep, there will be magic 'n shit! Brittle blades would be bad. Especially considering what could happen if you do what the warrior in the related picture is trying to do
I was thinking that it'd be mild magic though. Nothing that'd turn a single man into an invincible being. Thank you for the links and some more info on tungsten carbides.
That matrix composite concept is very interesting. I will look into it more
>>7993009
>one atom thick sheet of carbons
my goodness that seems weak. Could you elaborate on how they make everything better anon? The graphene would be cool, but it seems to make it in large amounts requires modern technology.
>>7992983
edge is not important depending on the weight of the sword
also swords made for thrusting obviously dont care about edge as much as one made for cutting
it would help more if you describe what kind of environment the sword is used for
>>7993014
>Not the objectively superior method of halfswording
>>7993016
I dunno man they just do.
>Transistors
>Trousers
>Blades (Damascus steel apparently has them on the edge)
>Popular science
The list goes on.
>>7993021
Ha! That's awesome
>>7993018
It would not just be a single sword. There are many cultures in this fictional universe, and would have different styles of warfare. For example, the main culture is called "Sagodisch": sa-go-dish/say-go-disk (depending on the accent). They are like the Saxons if they had longer contact in Romanized areas like the Franks and Lombards had.
They have long, straight swords for the more elite units. The common soldier would use a spear or axe however, with an occasional soldier wielding a short sword. I imagine it'd be a stabbing weapon more than a cutting one. Does this help?
>>7993024
Wow, you're right! I guess they would be worth having... but I'll have to think of a way for medieval-magic folk to be able to either see or even recognize them. Thanks, anon
>>7993035
Saxons as you describe them predate Damascus steel in Europe.
>>7993035
https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=McdaL4vbK9I
remember, hollywood is never correct, real fights are very clumsy looking
>>7993038
Well sure, you're right. But this is a fictional world I am creating for a book. They could have Damascus steel in this fantasy universe, but looking into it again and again I find it was highly sought out and expensive.
It doesn't seem to be part of the common man's armory
>>7993049
are these large skimishes with spears or small raids?
because any kind of spear formation is impenetrable with swords so it makes no sense to equip your fodders with expensive steel
>>7993049
You're quite right. It's probably a good idea not to turn this into a historical novel.
Though too much anachronism can be jarring. For example the armour in Peter Jackson's LOTR was pretty much useless despite being of high-end 14/15th century appearance; possibly because the books are 'set' in the dark ages so the descriptions of battle (few as they were) had people taking sword blows to the body and being incapacitated.
>>7993048
Right, combat was not choreographed. And armor DOES actually help. Clumsy is a good way to describe it, I may just have to have a character say that. Thanks anon
>>7993052
The battles that take place in my part of the novel would be large skirmishes against a very disorganized enemy. There are small raids throughout, but I foresee two large battle scenes with extensive formation use and the like.
You're right, the fodder would not have expensive weapons or equipment.
>>7993056
I remember them all stabbing through one another's armor like it was butter. As if wearing it was more for costume than actual effect
>>7993072
Yeah it was kinda silly though I guess they had to make a visually striking contrast between Gondor and Rohan while maintaining key narrative points.
>The battles that take place in my part of the novel would be large skirmishes against a very disorganized enemy.
You may enjoy this anon.
https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=Ixm6sXe1TYE
>>7993072
nice thing about fantasy is that you aint got to explain shit
in lotr, narsil could block the army of the dead because fuck you I ain't got explain shit
if you need a blade to do something magical just let it do something magical and leave it at that, but nothing to overt and too powerful so it doesn't come off as a dues ex machina
>>7993077
Dubs do not lie, I do enjoy that. The battle formation would form a semi-circle against the enemy. Their lack of organization would mean they would fold around it and spread thin.
Pressing any of the weak points to break them up, or reinforcing any weak spots in the formation with reserves.
>>7993083
You're right, I can let some of the stuff just be magical and fantastic. I also would like some of the aspects to seem very grounded. Very non-fiction in nature because much of the fantasy I read nowadays goes batshit crazy at parts. That's their style and it works - obviously because they are published. But I wanted to write a little differently to set myself apart I guess. Hence me opening this thread and asking the various sci/entists about the chemistry of sword forging.
I do want to avoid any part of my novel coming off as dues ex machina levels of power. I would like for one of the antagonists to have a very powerful sword that stands up well against his foe's steel or iron weapons.
Like a scene where they do clash sword on sword rather than sword agaisnt shield, and the antagonist's weapon has a mild chip while the other character's blade is gouged severely
OP here, I found an interesting method of forging called "Directional Solidification". The molten metal is contained within a furnace. The contained molten material is slowly lowered into a vat of coolant below. This directs the formation of the metal, and forms a polycrystalline superalloy.
They are extremely resistant to pressure and fracturing. Be a neat way to have one of my novel's more impressive swords to be forged. And yes, the forge image is for ants. Gotta forge those spears to fight termites
>>7992966
>then he almost conquers the world
Clearly he was chosen.
>>7993163
The Eternal Sky chose him because It knew he would kill a lot of people. He did kill a lot of people. Tengri was pleased
>>7992775
Refreshing self-bump
>>7992775
You can practice on my sword ;)
>>7993957
Very enlightening, but any blade less than five inches is too small for me to use. Sorry bud
