how do yall mother fuckers feel about this as a field of health/medicine/study/biology/whateverthefuck? you, your mother fucking self. john q. whatever the fuck. your own god damn opinions.
dont bs me.
>>7984524
I feel that it is a real scientific field with merit as schizophrenia and depression, for instance are real conditions which requires sometimes long term care and medication. However, I also feel that there are a lot of biased diagnoses, influence from pharmaceutical companies and a lot of stupid people who want attention, get involved in the field, get subjectively diagnosed, and then complain about having a bunch of disorders (but they love the attention and pretending their life is so tough).
Honestly it's a disgrace to medicine and everyone knows psychiatrists are just failed MDs
>>7984603
No it isn't and you're just parroting things you've seen autists say.
>>7984524
Psychiatry is a joke because it doesn't distinguish between chemical/physical/mechanical systems and computational/informational ones.
>>7984627
What the fuck are you talking about?
>>7984631
Basically they try to fix software problems by providing hardware solutions, thus achieving shit results.
>>7984627
> everything that is psychological is simultaneously chemical.
Litterally from freshman psych course.
Denying reality is a symptom of mental illness
>>7984632
Just leave it to /sci/ autists to use a fucking Compsci analogy. You have no idea what you're talking about.
>>7984635
>You have no idea what you're talking about.
Why don't you go ahead and point me a malady psychiatrists have cured. Now lets look at other fields of medicine and compare their relative success in number of conditions cured.
>>7984645
Yeah you're a simpleton for sure. There is no cure for many mental illnesses such as schizophrenia. There can only be management and that involves therapy and medication. Without those, the person who has schizophrenia is at risk of harming/killing themselves or others. However it's been noticed that as people age a lot of symptoms of schizophrenia are alleviated naturally.
Modern psychiatry has it's upsides and downsides. But regardless, it is vital for a modern society. You can't just put a person who is hallucinating into prison or in chains like they did in the asylums not all that long ago.
If you measure the usefulness of a field of medicine by how many conditions they have cured I'm willing to bet you're under 18 or have just had bad experiences with it.
>>7984663
>if you measure the useful of something by how useful it is you're under 18
Kek
>>7984593
how biased do the diagnoses get?
>>7984709
>Improving a schizophrenics mental condition thereby potentially saving their life and the lives of others is useless
>>7984711
Depends really. There really is no objective way to diagnose most mental conditions. However if more than one psychiatrist comes to the same diagnosis, odds are it's right.
Some conditions are easier to diagnose than others (e.g anorexia, schizophrenia, etc) but others can be more complicated.
Some psychiatrists will just make a hasty diagnosis and prescribe pills. The pharmaceutical industry have actually paid some psychiatrists to create new mental illnesses in order to make medication for it. So there is some corruption for sure, but many psychiatrists are good people and they are necessary in order to improve the mentally ill.
>>7984663
is it a purely mental illness though?
have I missed some huge study or publication?
We should bring back asylums.
>>7984524
Walmart greeters of medicine.
>>7984881
Yes. Their brain chemistry is different.
>>7984882
I lold but I think this somewhere deep down inside
>>7984881
> purely mental illness
What does this mean?
>>7984887
and the symptoms? the causes?
this seems like such an over-simpflication to me
>>7984895
better than being a rapist or a cold blooded murderer
>>7984893
>The causes
It's unknown. But genetics does play a part and chemical imbalances in neurotransmitters like dopamine contribute to it.
>>7984895
Woah man, I know you want to kill me since I fucked your Mom but you shouldn't stick to Freudian clinches.
>>7984898
What is your major or career?
>>7984889
to me, "of the mind". relating to psychology/physiology.
>>7984902
I suppose construction worker. I think I wanna get into teaching though. something to do with thinking and getting paid for it.
>>7984901
That's very mature. Yes, you sure do have the brain for science and you'll really contribute to some great discoveries! In reality you're actually useless and most likely have not touched a vagina.
>>7984911
>most likely have not touched a vagina.
I did when I was born you fag.
>>7984910
Then shut the fuck up you primitive neanderthal swine.
>>7984911
what the fuck are you on about maturity for? please get the fuck out.
>>7984895
You sound mad.
Why?
>>7984912
Haha, enjoy your shitty existence fucking faggot.
>>7984915
can you explain your views abit pleasssssse?
dont gtfo yet im sorry!
>>7984919
Are you not born?
>>7984918
Because these kinds of people exist. Those who believe we should round up the mentally ill and stick them back into asylums where they can be abused and live in their own shit, are detrimental to human progress.
>>7984928
what about separating mentally ill prisoners from non mentally ill ones? do you not see the usefulness in that?
you seem like a presumptuous twat to me.
and you are ruining my fucking intellectual discussion with your faggot fucking emotions
>>7984935
What are you talking about? Of course I'm all for separating mentally ill prisoners. I don't think they should be "prisoners" in the first place, they need rehabilitation and management not punishment.
>>7984939
>Implying there was anything intellectual about it in the first place.
>"Intellectual" discusson
>Comes to 4chan
>Starts thread with yall, mother fuckers fucking, fuck, god damn, bs, improper punctuation and negates the pros that psychiatry has.
If this isn't proof that people like to come to science sites on the internet in order to feel and appear smart, I don't know what is. You probably are an atheist too right? Fucking faggot.
>>7984950
and I never negated the pros of psychiatry you shit
>>7984955
>so rapists and murders should be rehabilitated if they do not have clear cut "mental-illnesses" in your opinion?
Absolutely. There is no evidence whatsoever to suggest that punishment has any effectiveness on future actions. Once they are released, they have no skills, have trouble getting a job, and go back to a life of crime. Meanwhile in Norway, "prisoners" are referred to as students, are taught useful skills that can be applied in society after they are released and the model of rehabilitation is very effective overall. It's no surprise that they have the lowest recidivism rates. Maybe you should look beyond your medieval black and white world view which demands harming others in order to satisfy your primitive blood lust.
>>7984958
>LOL IT'S A RABBITHOLE
You're obviously mad because you want to seem intelligent but you're actually dumb.
>>7984962
harming others can save others quite often. it's funny how that works, I know.
I am all for rehabilitating people with morals.
Here's how I see it. Psychology/Psychiatry needs a major overhaul and, as a field, needs to have its borders more accurately defined. Neuroscience supersedes these fields in many ways.
However, even if you could keep track of all of the neurons in the brain simultaneously, the resulting behaviors that arise from the inner workings of the brain cannot be predicted with a reliable amount of accuracy. There are also social, moral, and societal forces that interact with biological forces.
Psych may not be a hard science, but it is an important piece of the puzzle that connects with medicine, public policy, ethics/morality, societal "norms", etc. It is a young field that needs to find its proper place in our social society.
>>7984965
keep trying to mind fuck me, faggot. you will feel better about yourself maybe one day.
you are right about the anger though. I wonder how your faggot ass figured that one out?
>>7984974
you make me not so angry. I think I might even be feeling hope or some shit like that.
>>7984974
>Neuroscience supersedes these fields in many ways
Stopped reading. They are all different fields and neuroscience is hardly anything like psychiatry.
>>7984982
and I am the fucking primitive one.
>>7984975
Stop swearing. It makes you look uneducated, which you really are so I suppose it makes sense. Either way, grow up and take your meds.
>>7984984
Do you legitimately think that someone who has a degree in neuroscience could do the job of a psychiatrist without the training or anything like that? Neuroscience and psychiatry while at times overlapping, are very different. Neuroscience does not have a clear cut criteria regarding management and treatment of mental illnesses. It is the study of solely the brain, whereas psychiatry/psychology focuses mostly on observable behavior.
>>7984982
Neuroscience studies the brain. Psychology studies behaviors caused by brain structures. Psychiatry (attempts to) treat disorders of the brain. Neuropsychology employs nueroscientific techniques to understanding behavior. They are
quite similar, despite the several subcategories for both neuroscience and psychology
ur a gay man with a gay dad
>>7984992
What the fuck do you think my post before yours was about?
>>7984991
You have a point, but neuroscience can be used to explain certain mental illnesses (schizophrenia, for example) in a much more comprehensive way than more conventional psychological methods can, as it can find specific abnormalities in the brain
>>7984928
I think abuse is a bigger deal than when it was back in the day of asylums
I see those ambulance chasers for senior abuse fairly often.
Ive seen plenty of homeless men in the hospital, basically getting kicked off the psych ward because of their short term policy
>>7985007
No absolutely not. While abuse still occurs, it does usually not occur in the form of blatant physical torture. It still can, but to a lesser degree.
>>7984999
this post here bro
I didnt even pay attention to his opinion on whatever the fuck because it truly was not relevant to the rest of what the post said.
>>7985010
do you sperg over the mention of genetic engineering too?
>>7984991
one of my major concerns with psych, however, has to do with how socially ascribed, as opposed to medically ascribed, "mental illness" is dealt with. An example being personality disorders. While dealing with these disorders is a valid concern, the disordered behavior itself is defined wholly upon social norms or, more accurately, how far they deviate from said norms. This basically means that people are called ill if they are too different for us to deal with, and that the diagnosis could change or even disappear if the norms themselves changed. Obviously this isn't always the case. People with narcissistic personality disorder can certainly cause a great deal of pain to those around them. But, put the same narcissist in a political or business setting and they excel (especially in the good ol' USA) when their self-serving tendencies and grandiosity come more in handy. Neuroscience (or any other science that studies the brain quantitatively) can really deal with issues like this, at least from the way I currently see it.
>>7985014
does blood, shit, sex, drugs, death or the mention of hitler offend you?
>>7985010
truth
>>7985020
also, meant to say "can't deal with" there at the end. Fuck it nobody is watching anyway. I just want to justify this psych degree bruh.
we need more scientists who were criminals at one point in the fucking world.
I fucking love and hate you all.
>>7985022
No they do not, grow up.
>>7985020
All valid points that I do agree with. Norms do shift from culture to culture. I think where the line should be drawn is if the behaviour of a person which we may perceive as odd is having a negative impact/posing danger to others or themselves. But other than that, there is a lot of over prescribing for disorders that can be fixed. Culture today has changed incredibly. Honestly, a lot of problems that some people who see shrinks for medication have, could be fixed by a healthy diet, regular exercise, and socializing. There is also the stigma that comes along with the diagnosis.
>>7985040
FUCK YOU YOU PIECE OF FUCKING SHIT. FUCK YOU
>>7985043
do you believe in the concept of race?
i'm honestly just curious here. sorry for being angry but notreally.
>>7985050
I do. But while we're at it, piss off back to /pol/. Only people as dumb as you could come from there.
>>7985056
nah you presumed wrong again.
do I remind you of someone you know or something?
>>7985064
Yes, you remind me of an extremely uneducated, irritating twat I know.
>>7985043
Man, we just need to rethink mental health from the bottom up imo. Abandon normality and ideas of dichotomous, good-bad morality (within reason of course) and many mental illnesses would simply disappear. When there is no "normal" as a point of reference, people seem much less strange when they don't act like you. This is a massive undertaking tho. It would require a national/global shift in consciousness and would likely require the complete abandonment of Judaeo-Christian ideology. What a world it would be tho
>>7985070
Probably won't ever happen in Western society.
>>7984524
>>7984881
>>7984888
>>7984893
>>7984898
>>7984905
>>7984910
>>7984916
>>7984922
>>7984935
>>7984939
>>7984944
>>7984955
>>7984958
>>7984972
>>7984975
>>7984980
>>7984984
>>7985014
>>7985018
>>7985022
>>7985029
>>7985042
>>7985044
>>7985050
these are my fucking posts too if you care to know.
yes I swear alot and yes I am uneducated. feel free to call me a nigger or a pig or whatever the fuck you want. I don't give a fuck. I learned a long time ago that I truly am a dirty fucking animal deep down inside. I'm also curious about other things and I got kids and shit maaaaaaaaaaan.
>>7985070
youmake me want to cry now. oohhhh the vast array of these things people call emotions.
>>7985072
Here's how I think psych should view/treat mental illness: ***Is it causing harm to you or others? A. Yes:Treat it (drugs, therapy, both, etc.) B. No: help the person to thrive in an environment that best suits their behavioral/personality traits.
I think people should be given the tools to be the best version of themselves (or whoever they wish to be), not changed and pigeonholed into some hollow idea of "normality"
>>7984603
Can confirm this is false
>>7984731
>Shizophrenia
>Easy to diagnose
American?
It's a decision systems problem. (I don't know the official terms so I will make up my own)
Decision: humans make decisions.
Systems: humans exist with other humans, making up groups that behave like a complex system.
Problem: many decisions of individuals become systems decisions if enough of them align together.
Assessing good or bad decisions has been a binary thing enforced by tradition, culture, civilization, society. It seems we are moving away from binary thinking into spectrum thinking. Meaning what used to be a clearcut bad thing to do in the past is now ambiguous if not completely inverted into good. Note we no longer promote the concept of goodness (which had a degree of hypocrisy to its general truth) only acceptance.
Acceptance means that potentially all decisions are assessed equally without a degree of objectivity. Without a refined framework for human decisions we end up with system decisions which could adversely affect the whole system, especially if a more robust rigid and aggressive competiting system subverts this accepting system, because this type of system is self-defeating, it would have appeared and been destroyed many times throughout history.
Same with non-aggression. Pacifism does not work because if someone is an aggressor he can conquer the world with a plastic spoon and enough willpower to do so.
>>7985119
would you define aggression without looking it up please?
>>7984663
>If you measure the usefulness of a field of medicine by how many conditions they have cured I'm willing to bet you're under 18 or have just had bad experiences with it.
I think it's worth examining the approach of a medical field that has never produced a reliable cure for a single ailment. I don't think I'm overstating psychiatry's failure in these terms if I say it is the only such medical field. Even a bunch of cancers we have remarkably effective and reliable treatments for.
>ITT: Rejects who want to blame a guy for not curing them of their social and mental issues like a Freud parody on TV did
>>7984645
And in about 100 years cancer science, less complex study, has only invented enough anti cancer vaccines to count on one hand. Yes, according to your logic both mind and cancer studies are garbage. Let's drop both of both them.
Honestly, differential diagnosis consists of 5 diseases, the treatment is limited and it should be merged with neurology again.
And let psychologists do the psychotherapy.
>>7984524
>>7984632
Oh boy, looks like a good thread to get a bingo!
Has anyone reported this thread yet so it can be moved to >>>/x/ or >>>/trash/
>>7985624
haven't been pegged yet today friend?
>>7985633
Keep taking your placebo meds for your "mental disease," kid.
if you just suspend judgement for a second, and realize mental problems defy logic to begin with, you begin to stfu, and enjoy the smug anime girls
>>7985561
>And in about 100 years cancer science, less complex study, has only invented enough anti cancer vaccines to count on one hand.
Except that cancer is now really well understood and there are continually new avenues being developed for treatment. And what's more it's actually understood how cancer treatments treat cancer. And as you said there are even vaccines. None of these things are true for anything in psychiatry. What's more there are objective ways to detect cancer and its existence isn't decided by committee.
>>7985640
im gonna write about it one day bro ;) ;)
>>7985646
>>7985561
The obvious cure for cancer is to stop looking for it and diagnosing it. Cancer death rates will drop to 0 and there will be no more cancer in the world.
The instant you are diagnosed with cancer, you are totally fucked. Like only 22% of people diagnosed of breast cancer die within 5 years. Stop diagnosing them.
lets just all turn up and fuck and smoke crack with children while eating endangered species
>>7985087
>Is it causing harm to you or others? A. Yes:Treat it
That's how it works, or how it should work. The concept of disease is partly a social construct, the basis of it being more less that: if it causes an impairment physically, psychologically or socially it's a disease. If it doesn't, it's not.
>>7985662
what is harm though? that is the fucker.
I hate culture
>>7985657
>the cure for this disease is to pretend it doesn't exist
>then no one will die from it
>>7985674
this is sfw technically basically right?
>>7985662
While situations causing harm to people should be remedied, I don't think this qualifies them as a disease.
For instance if I cut your arm off you have been harmed, and are now permanently disabled most likely. But you haven't acquired a disease or illness by the mere fact of me lopping off your appendage. Mere harm is therefore not sufficient for the definition of a disease.
>>7985688
>>7985688
>While situations causing harm to people should be remedied, I don't think this qualifies them as a disease.
True that, I forgot to point that out
As for the rest, yeah that definition has some limits, but it's the starting point to define what a disease is. I studied these things last year so I forgot some of the details, but basically it all goes down to today's definiton of health http://www.who.int/about/definition/en/print.html
>>7985712
Mmhm.
Well google says it's defined thusly:
disease
dJˈziːz/
noun
a disorder of structure or function in a human, animal, or plant, especially one that produces specific symptoms or that affects a specific location and is not simply a direct result of physical injury.
Physical injury is an interesting inclusion. Would you have to include a caveat for mental injury for the considerations of mental illness?
>>7985678
>how do you get rid of crime?
>remove all laws
