Tried to watch DMT: The Spirit Molecule
Had to bail 5 minutes in when people started saying that because drugs get us high there is "meaning" and "purpose" behind the interaction
>>7957447
>DMT: The Spirit Molecule
>The Spirit Molecule
I would've skipped that shit entirely
>>7957447
Well, it certainly seems so to them, since the experience provided by DMT is unlike any other drug induced state.
>>7957460
Joe Rogan was in it so I figured I'd give it a shot
Are you really surprised?
People readily believe in everything having a "meaning" and a "purpose" even when they're NOT high as balls.
>>7957463
You could say that about any drug, though. Coke is different from speed, heroin is different from benzos, weed is different from alcohol.
It's natural that consciousness arising from a biological network would operate differently under different conditions. I'm not sure why some people try to extend that to some big new-agey truth. Drugs are fun, but they're just means to an end.
>>7957471
Yeah that's what I'm getting at, I hate that
I saw through the bullshit on that one a long time ago and I haven't been able to figure out why people make such a big deal about anything since
>>7957447
You missed the best part where they start talking about inter-dimensional beings. It happens, it's consistently observed.
>>7957495
Please expand on this.
>>7957474
You don't understand, with every drug from the same "group" with experience you can see similarities between them.
However, with DMT the game changes completely. A breakthrough experience of DMT knocks you completely out and paralyzes your body, and the sensation is rightfully described as being launched into another dimension.
This coupled with the high amount of convergent, similar experiences (a lot of people report having the exact same experience at the same time) have convinced its users of some higher "meaning".
>>7957518
Yeah, my experiences with DMT have not confirmed anything you're saying.
>>7957526
Have you taken enough?
>>7957528
yup
>>7957546
What was the breakthrough like? Genuinely curious.
There is a difference between artificial drugs and psychotropics.
Coke was a sacred plant used in ceremonies like ahyahuasca (DMT). But still, you can´t compare drugs like meth with psycodelics.
>>7957474
>>7957557
>There is a difference between artificial drugs and psychotropics
There literally is not in any way
>you can't compare drugs like meth with psycodelics
You absolutely one hundred percent can
https://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Naturalistic_fallacy
I did DMT that came from 'Bufo alvarius' an endemic toad in México and I can honestly call it a spiritual trip. Not because of hallucinations (that clearly come from the subconcious) or a breakthrough per say but for the clear-cut image that it gives you of your sourroundings. It lasts like 15 min but the relief and clarity of thoughts prevail through-out days.
Not gonna lie, I've done my share of recreational drugs, and in the end it's all degenerate bullshit.
Psychodelics made me balance out my life
>>7957570
What did your share consist of?
>>7957615
Pot, MDMA (mostly), dxm, shrooms, LSD, cocaine, adderall, xanax, 2-CI, salvia, tried various opiates but didn't like them
Now I just have no interest in drugs of any time and have a couple glasses of wine once or twice a week.
>>>/soc/
not science & math
>>7957557
>never done 2c's
>never done 4ho derivatives
>never read shuligan
>has an opinion on "artificial drugs"
It's like you're not even trying
>>7957447
The psychedelic experience is a doorway which leads to a hallway which leads to only what you want to find within yourself.
In other terms, a drug is nothing but a high-yield (fast but not perfect) technique to reach partly what your reason and heart cannot achieve fully in your opinion. If anything, it is a total lack of confidence in your reason and in your abilities to philosophy to be at ease with life; ease which remains unlikely, given that the choice of doing these drugs with the goal of opening your awareness and opening your mind is already a sign of close-mindedness and poor ability to reflect.
>>7957447
It's an introspective catalyst and a deconditioning agent. Nothing more. Rick strassman is just another religulous scientist trying to twist his field toward how he wants it to be interpreted. And if you ever actually meet a shaman you find quickly he's a delusional asshole. That all said, dmt is a beautiful experience. Just not for the reasons the hippies are all on about.
>>7957526
Then you didn't take enough. I'm not saying you'll have a religious experience, but for all intents and purposes, welcome to hyperspace.
>>7957474
Confirmed for never having taken any real psychedelics.
I'm not saying I believe there is some higher purpose behind psychedelics, but I want you to drop acid, then come back and tell me the experience wasn't at all "spiritual".
Whatever minimal experience there still was in that 7th jhana-like state seemed to stop, and I entered unfamiliar territory. There was barely any vestige of conscious awareness left at this point, so in that sense it felt kind of like one might imagine dying would feel like. At this point, there was a sense of consciousness flickering like a light bulb, and I can't be sure that I didn't lose consciousness for some time. The next thing I remember was experiencing some kind of undifferentiated null state that was even more primordial than the 7th jhana void. There was no ability to be contemplating this state while in it, but some ability to recognize what it had been like after emerging. It’s how I imagine being in the womb would feel like. Eventually (no sense of time whatsoever at this point), some experience came into this null state. There was an auditory tonal tinnitus experience and kind of a white-light experience, although it didn't quite seem visual, just kind of the subjective impression that a white light might make. From there, layers of mind started coming back online one-by-one. This felt like being reborn.
In retrospect, it would have been best to have drawn out the experience by staying in meditation with the unity/beingness for as long as possible, but I was so amazed by what I had just experienced that I started writing down an account of it.
So there is plausibility.
>>7958397
Psychedelics often give one a sense of being "reset," but often leave me with a certain type of hangover of being trapped within the mind. The mind is typically a much better place to be post-trip than pre-trip, because there's a freshness and greater integration and perspective. However, it's unmistakably harder for me to access consciousness beyond thought/ego for a few days post-trip.
The post-trip experience with 5-MeO was opposite to that. For days afterwards, I was tapping back into similar body energy and had easier access to perspectives outside of thought and ego and easier access to the formless jhanas than I had had in a while. I couldn't meditate back to the same depth as the 5-MeO experience itself, but could get closer more reliably. And I felt more deeply immersed in quasi meditative states throughout the day.
My experience doesn't seem to be that unusual compared to Erowid trip reports and what's reported in Tryptamine Palace (one of the few books on 5-MeO). Yet the typical psychonaut doesn't have the meditative experience that I have. It's been well-discussed, e.g. in Zig Zag Zen, that a lot of the boomers who got into Eastern spiritualties did so at least partially on account of an initial taste of nondual experience from psychedelics, especially LSD. It seems that 5-MeO offers a far purer and deeper nondual experience than the classical psychedelics (LSD, psilocybin, mescaline). This makes me wonder why there is so little knowledge and use of it among serious practitioners (e.g. very few mentions on this forum). I also haven’t seen accounts of people taking up a serious spiritual practice after experiencing 5-MeO. I wonder why?
The real questions that I want to discuss in this thread are:
Can 5-MeO be useful as a part of practice? Specifically, I'm thinking along the lines of:
Useful for motivational purposes - I.e. a direct experience of what no-self states are like as motivation to practice to realize them on an ongoing basis.
Useful for getting a feel for the next step or two in meditation practice. E.g. ability to access states on one's own that were impossible previously, and ability to regularly access states that were difficult previously.
Useful for weakening identity-view. Being thrust into such deep no-self states seems to at least temporarily weaken identity view in the aftermath. Can this afterglow be leveraged for insight work? Is the afterglow similar to that from Nirodha Samapatti?
I found at least one account of someone (Martin Ball) purporting to have realized ongoing nondual experience through the intentional and repeated use of 5-MeO along with some yoga-energy practices. He has a book on it called Being Human.
Word of warning to people that might be interested in trying this: 5-meo-dmt is seriously powerful stuff. This is not your average acid or mushroom trip. In december I took it with some friends (we divided 47mg in three lines, so about the same amount that you took), and all three of us were completely blasted away. Don't remember most of the experience, but my friends especially experienced the most intense fear you can imagine. Afterwards there was blood and vomit everywhere, none us can remember by whom, when or how. One of my friends actually passed out and for a couple of minutes we actually believed she had died. Imagine having to deal with that in the most intensive trip of your life. She is still dealing with the aftershocks, and is currently sitting at home not being able to work due to recurring panic attacks.
So yes, you could hang out in the deepest most beautiful jhana, or get stuck in the deepest most powerful fear nana you can imagine. Feel like rolling the dice?
Since stream entry is supposed to be an irreversible thing, I don't really think I had that fruition. Although some things do seem to have stuck - e.g. I don't see how I could hate anyone ever again, although ill-will/anger is definitely not overcome. It's just crystal clear to me that people are only acting out of their (sometimes misguided) attempts at well-being. Clear recognition of that, and of the harm to self and other that harboring hatred causes makes it impossible (I think!) for me to hate. It would be like simultaneously stabbing myself and the other with a knife.
It also seems impossible to take career aspirations as seriously as I used to. I also can't ever again see right and wrong as anything but arbitrary person-specific notions (of which I have my own), but I think that might have been the case before that experience anyway. Existential fear of death is gone, but somehow social anxiety is not. I guess that's not that unsual, actually ;)
There's no way to overemphasize that being in thrust into the depths of no-self that 5-MeO causes is a majorly intense, potentially traumatic experience. As I mentioned, I had waves of terror in my experience. The only technique to use is to surrender, but there's no guarantee that you will be able to pull that off sufficiently thoroughly, because the reactions can be rather strong and primal. I would highly advise meditating into deep calm and no-self prior to dosing, and make sure you are in an environment that you feel safe and comfortable in. A sitter would be advisable, but your sitter also needs to be prepared for you to seem to enter a coma or have a vigorous physical episode. This can be traumatizing for an unprepared sitter.
I don't think 5-MeO even qualifies as a psychedelic. It's neither "mind-manifesting" (the etymological meaning), and only very mildly hallunicogenic (the more colloquial meaning), with perhaps some white light and/or tinnitus. It's self-annihilating / grand-unifying. Having had experiences of extreme altered states through psychedelics is probably better than not with respect to handling the experience well, but a breakthrough is really on a different order of experience than one can have with classical psychedelics at any dose. The most useful prep that I had from my experience was having meditated into the formless jhanas and having seen through the self to some degree and become disillusioned with it.
Having an unstable personality, psychosis, schizophrenia, or past trauma may be serious risk factors for difficult experiences. But as your friend's case illustrates, difficult experiences are often not without their benefits. People should know the stakes that they are gambling with in this undertaking.
I tried the real deal today, 4mg. I had a total of 24, so my plan was to portion it 4-5-15.
I attained first jhana, stayed in it for a few minutes, jumped into the second for a very brief time, and proceeded to insufflate 4mg of beige 5-MeO-DMT. I don't have much experience insufflating, but it's worth noting that I felt it necessary to crush the substance from its small crystal into a more fine powder. Searching the net for a bit before doing that made it seem like the right idea.
There was a mild and easily tolerable burning sensation -- the type I wouldn't care much about even outside the comfort of jhanic seclusion. It did, however, numb my nose and parts of my upper mouth a little bit. Also, it agitated the membranes a little, and I had to battle with a bit of mucus. I don't know how I'd solve this.
Generally, the experience was marked with my scientific mind trying to analyze every effect bit after bit. Certainly this affected the depth I could get to. I'm assuming larger doses bring about more of a silencing of this motif, as well as the experimenting with lower doses and getting a bit of the understanding of the experience that the mind yearns for.
The onset was very gradual and felt perfect in this sense. Moment after moment, the effect of the substance presented itself, gently reminding me to let go of the excitement involved and focus on the practice. A few minutes in, there was a noticable increase in piti and a general energetic motif pervaded. At the time, I could still not conclude that the substance was "helping", i.e. that I'm more absorbed/relaxed/present than if I were to simply continue meditating.
Shortly after, the piti subsided, and I found myself in a space that felt like the 3rd or 4th jhana -- in which I essentially spent the rest of the experience in, skipping between these depths relatively dynamically.
There was good absorption, and it felt like it was less dependant on ekaggata than the standard practice. However, whenever I did make the effort to concentrate the mind/keep it on point, the "reward" was very clear. Still, it wasn't easy to do this, as the novelty of the experience, the curiosity of the mind, the excitedness of it all (the small amounts still penetrating the jhanasphere) made for a shakier experience than that of a standard 3rd/4th jhana.
Other effects:
I had an easier time "resting" into the state, similar in nature to what you may get on psychedelics when you choose to "surrender" into a situation and accept whatever experience as the reference point to "melt" into.
I had a moderately powerful experience that elucidated the relationship of vipassana to samadhi. That involved a clear motion of release of the stress around the focus point and entire jhana practice alongside it. If generally, for me, the movement between jhana states involved intention and a release of a factor - something that happens gradually and without an immediate grasp of the moment of release (but rather the jump deeper), this showed itself as a sensation of deep and clear release of the task/breath that invited me to keep repeating it. I am curious to see if this surfaces again in my next session.
I felt like my self was peeled away slightly and that less space was occupied by the standard machinery of it. This was very subtle and so I can't expand much about it.
There was no fear or terror of any kind, which makes me happy to have done it before diving deeper into a higher dose.
Generally, and as weird as this may sound, the effect was very much what I had expected (and hoped) it to be. I am eager to dive in again and will search to find the "perfect" opportunity to use the one bullet I have.
>>7958354
>If anything, it is a total lack of confidence in your reason and in your abilities to philosophy to be at ease with life; ease which remains unlikely, given that the choice of doing these drugs with the goal of opening your awareness and opening your mind is already a sign of close-mindedness and poor ability to reflect.
zen
>>7958395
lol confirmed for beeing a butthurt fuckboy. I've dropped acid 5 times and it's always been an amazing experience but that doesn't mean any feelings of spirituality or higher meaning actually meant anything after the trip was over
A lot of people place too much trust in the, like, super deep acid thoughts they came up with, forgetting that these ideas were conceived while they were on drugs. Next time you drop, tell you what. Drop with a buddy, and record your conversations, and then listen to that shit sober a month later and tell me if you still feel like those conversations are like, super totally hella profound, bro, like, dawg
>>7958456
Not him but it's not about the "realizations"
It's about undoing your pathology. The spirit is the psyche. Also he clearly wasn't butthurt. Dipshit.
>>7958465
nah he mad as hell that I trivialized his acid experience. That's why he accused me of never having done any psychs
Drugs are fun but when you start allowing yourself that kind of emotional or even spiritual attachment to an experience, especially to one mediated by substances, you are only creating problems for yourself.
>>7958456
There's a reason I put spiritual in quotes. Here, maybe this'll make it more obvious for you
> """""""spiritual"""""""
My point was just that I completely understand why people who have experienced intense psychedelic trips would feel like there's a deeper meaning buried in there somewhere, since that's usually a big theme throughout the entire trip.
> butthurt fuckboy
I'm not sure if you actually read what you wrote before hitting post, but jeez you're upset.
To anons who tried 5-MeO, there's something I'm curious about. I remember reading on erowid a while ago that when using this you might "experience the void" or something like that.
Care to expand?
>>7957467
>Joe Rogan
isn't that even more discouraging?
>>7958456
that's just due to limitations of language
the type of thoughts you have with some psychedelics are just beyond your ability to describe them
the concepts don't even exist in the sober minds of most people
>>7957463
It's just because it's a potent 5HTP receptor agonist with a very short duration of effect (especially when inhaled). It hits the brain fast and hard, doesn't allow for it to adapt, lose sensitivity/gain tolerance while it's in effect.
I think that's all.
>>7958456
>Drop with a buddy, and record your conversations, and then listen to that shit sober a month later
Why would you give so much emphasis to conversations when we have only so many words for trying to scratch the surface of describing a psychedelic experience?
A "spiritual" experience is nothing generalizable, it's someone's very subjective view of their experience that might be cast into cheap light when described with language.
ok so why do so many people see the same kinds of entities?
acid for example is pretty easy to figure out, it loosens up your brain's associations, reducing the dampening that usually determines relevance
but dmt is so oddly specific, i'd be interested to know what use the brain has for a ton of latent animations that only get triggered by an obscure molecule
>>7958556
The void.
The spaces between the spaces
Hyperspace
The quantum foam
Absence of the prison of definition
The clarity that comes without self-emphasis
Timelessness
Infinity
un-finity
stillness of being
ect.
>>7958580
Exactly. People start experiencing the deconditioning effects of the psychedelic and have one new thought and go "This is it. I'm enlightened" but no. Of course that's ridiculous. Psychedelics force you to explore your inner world more vividly that sober people will usually allow themselves. You have to examine your every motivational underpinning and requestion everything. That is all. Psychedelics are deconditioners. Best used in large doses, but not often, and not recreationally, and not socially, and especially not around the dumbass children that usually do these things recreationally and socially. If you feel like calling the psyche a "spirit" then they are indeed spiritual, but really they are forced meditation. And the benefits are just those of other ecstatic experience. A bit of boundary dissolving and de-pathologizing. So of course, when people sit talk on drugs, unable to edit information or keep on a single train of thought, they sound like incoherent babble, but that doesn't devalue the experience. If you don't gain something amazing from psychedelics then
A) your dose was too small
B) you're doing them too often and already got what you were going to get from it for now
or
C) some hippie's got you looking for god consciousness when you should be looking for the absence of self-emphasis
>>7957623
>mdma, dxm, coke, adderall, xanax, scs, opiates.
Well there's your problem right there. None of these belong in the body. The tryptamine family, however, does. Is there really no middle ground to you between "Different recreational choices" and "Degenerate bullshit"? Because the truth is you just hang out with the kind of stupid people that do benzos coke and molly.
>>7958762
2c's* not scs
>>7958762
>opiates don't belong in the body
Confirmed for knowing nothing about the nervous system.
I'm sure you've heard the word "endorphin" before, even if you don't know what it means.
Also, you're just spouting complete bullshit now. DMT is not an endogenous neurotransmitter any more than heroin is.
Just because we use tryptamine doesn't mean DMT is somehow less degenerate.
Not saying everyone who does drugs recreationally is a degenerate, but you're basing your whole argument off of a false distinction.
>>7958582
pareidolia
>>7958879
that makes sense for faces but not much else (like their manner, things they say, the rest of their physical appearance)
but it's a good guess i think
>>7958868
>Confirmed for knowing nothing
You were right that I shouldn't have included opiates. My mistake. However, "Knowing nothing" is a drastic jump that autists make in assuming everyone is as full of shit as the last person they dealt with. Chill.
>Spouting complete bullshit now
What part? I didn't say DMT was an endogenous neurotransmitter. I'm not an expert in pharmacology, but I do know that the tryptamine family of chemicals are all based on one amino acid that is very common in our chemical makeup, and that coke and benzos and amphetamines are not. Which is what I said.
>Doesn't mean DMT is less degenerate
There that is again. How is it that altering my conscious is inherently a degenerate activity? It seems like your impressions of drug users have been heavily shaped by the kinds of idiots that do amphetamines and coke and benzos. Who, I promise you, are much more "Degenerate" than any habitual dmt user. Which is also what I said.
You're basing your whole argument off of imagining things I didn't say and arguing with those things.
>>7958909
Reread my post, I specifically mention that drugs are not necessarily a degenerate activity. That was just an example.
I'm arguing with your logic that "DMT is a tryptamine, so therefore it's more natural than other drugs!"
Drugs in the same family can have wildly different results.
For example, beta-endorphin is an opiate, and so is heroin.
But knowing this doesn't make heroin any less harmful.
I'm not comparing DMT to heroin here, I'm just saying your argument shows a poor understanding of chemistry.
>>7957447
Faggot why dont you smoke some and see how your closed minded opinions change
>>7958568
i think we've found the reason he's created a shitposting meta thread
>>7957526
Then you suck at taking drugs
>>7957651
>chemistry is not science related
>>7957447
>there is "meaning" and "purpose" behind the interaction
meaning, certainly
purpose, not
Lrn2distinguish
>>7960215
both of them are imaginary human concepts anyway
>>7960246
that's your excuse for being unable2distinguish??
fgt pls
>>7957447
>The Spirit Molecule
This should have been warning enough.
>>7957570
This
Anyway hallucinogens seem to me a lot like running a magnet over your mind (see pic). Far from indicating any kind of spiritual truth, upon sober reflection I find that the experiences they induce lend weight to, for want of a better name, the 'moist robot' hypothesis; that the mind/brain is just an information processing system and humans are basically robots/NPCs of the universe.
>>7960259
i'm not OP, just saying
>>7960264
What is it with people not understanding that a spiritual experience is spiritual only subjectively and is of value only to the person who experienced it and values it as spiritual? There is no "spiritual truth", there's only the arbitrary personal experiences that might or might not be perceived as spiritual.
>I find that the experiences they induce lend weight to, for want of a better name, the 'moist robot' hypothesis; that the mind/brain is just an information processing system
This could be someone's "spiritual experience". Please don't blindly associate spirits/soul to a "spiritual experience"
>>7960280
Pedantry aside I consider spiritual experiences to be anything not mundane, to do with the supernatural or religion, general spoopy /x/ tier shit.
Hallucinogens seem to not indicate anything of this nature, though I can understand why people think they do as hallucinogens basically cause you to think like a schizophrenic (more or less temporarily)
>>7960285
i wouldn't say that, they are all different, and probably none of them are much like schizophrenia apart from overdosing on weed (which isn't even a hallucinogen)
>>7960289
Well aren't you a reasonable and well-informed chap.
>>7960285
>I consider spiritual experiences to be anything not mundane
>to do with the supernatural or religion, general spoopy /x/ tier shit.
Wouldn't anything not mundane include so much more than "/x/ tier shit"?
Nearly everything experienced on moderate doses of psychedelics is far from mundane, yet not necessarily anything irrational.
>>7960336
>Wouldn't anything not mundane include so much more than "/x/ tier shit"?
No I didn't mean mundane in the sense of not interesting or not out of the ordinary, but mundane like so:
>2.
>of this earthly world rather than a heavenly or spiritual one.
>>7958510
>I completely understand why people who have experienced intense psychedelic trips would feel like there's a deeper meaning buried in there somewhere
doesn't mean it's correct
>>7958580
If you can't contextualize it with language, it is not a useful experience
>>7958951
Pretty sure I'll know that everything I see and feel during the experience is the direct result of being on drugs and thus not change any of my "closed minded opinions" about anything other than "DMT: cool or not?" to "cool" or "not"
>>7960565
>>7960565
That is extremely naive. I would expect anybody whose applied any real critical thinking skills to realize how monstrorously poorly language contextualizes our experiences, especially when the language doesn't actually have the words necessary to clearly communicate such experiences.
It doesn't mean the experience isn't useful for your own personal development. It just means that you may not be able to explain it to anybody else. But it's your experience, it's your own, and that's okay.
>>7960577
If you cannot contextualize your own experience in ways that you would then be able to communicate to other human beings what possible use could you derive from the experience
This is basic stuff - can't communicate = cannot actually comprehend = cannot actually do anything with except look at and say "oh, neat"
>>7958379
>if you ever actually meet a shaman you find quickly he's a delusional asshole. That all said, dmt is a beautiful experience. Just not for the reasons the hippies are all on about.
Arrogance is always best when combined with ignorance.
>>7960598
Please ignore this poster, he is clearly trying to stir deliberate aggravation, don't fall for it.
>>7960598
Some experiences cannot be put into words. Words are maps, they are not the territory. In some cases, they are very poor maps. Could you adequately convey in words the experience of an intense orgasm, or being present at the birth of your first child? Does that make either of these experiences less real, or 'useful'?
>>7958762
Not who you're replying to but I've also done most of what he's describing and while I like LSD a lot, after taking enough of it I've really come to the same conclusion he did.
I still take it at Phish concerts though.
We are the perfect tool of 'God'.
DMT calibrates us into our greatest version of our selves given enough time, peace and love. It's dangerous to dabble with _the_ most powerful entheogen nature has given us alone without caring people near you when/if you'll reach down to the abyss for answers..
My advice is not to do unorganic stuff - it has no positive or negative charge, and I'd vouch for something brewed/consecrated by people I can sense are at least more loving than I currently are. I'm drinking ayahuasca once a week in a group led by our shaman.
Plants are powerplants of information and all that holds the divine conciousness back is our limitation - the Ego.
"I WANT ICE CREAM NAW MAM! I WANT IT NAW!"
And some enlightened persons didn't do jack shit to become enlightened. Actually, they did the exact opposite - nothing, and they became enlightened..
Some monks use 30+ years of hard work to reach the top of the mountain. Some do a few years of Ayahuasca sessions.
Some get blown somewhere far off and become a totaly different person when smoking some DMT. It crystallizes afterwards and it takes one gifted person to master that kind of work. I'd like to consume something I can hurl up again if my material body wishes to do so, and not because I think I want it, or whatever tricks Loki, as I call my Ego, can bestow me...
>>7958762
Spotted the degenerate drug abusing hippy
>>7961411
You see, this is why we can't legalize DMT for medical reasons.
People like this exist.
Little old granny who's ruminating tirelessly about her stage IV lung cancer will keep on suffering.
All because of this asshole.
>>7961411
Interesting. Ex- (got old) LSD freak here, never did DMT. Sounds useful. Mostly on /x/, people just talk about dissociation and being really far out, man. I do believe one's own psyche determines or at least governs/moderates the experience. Always wondered if I would do psychedelics again. I miss the sacrament aspect of just sitting with everything as it arises.
>>7961411
The rest of his work has some pretty bizarre images.
>>7961411
>I'm drinking ayahuasca once a week in a group led by our shaman.
I'd like to add that all of us got DMT consentrations in our blood, lungs and amygdala. Usually, that is..
Skip meat. Fast. Meditate. Chant. Move out of the hood. Do some smart things and heal up before you continue on towards enlightenment. Well, that's what I hope everyone at one point would do..
Drugs do what they do. On ayahuasca you'll never be able to guess what's coming. But in group sessions when you're getting in tune you'll share and learn from others. DNA modifications are the real deal.. Well. Drugs csn do that, too, but it's not cranky work. It's the most delicste work in existance. Mind, body and that in between - soul.
Meditation can heal anything. An-y-thing! (Eat healthy food!)
Yo chemists. Can you tell me exactly what DMT is? No, that right. You can't. You can tell stories (real things thast happened) about it if you got experience. Lab science is like cutting a plant in 10.000 slices, examining it and then point out it's a red rose.
Having said that, I probably got like 35 experiences, and all I can tell you is that I fully can reccomend you start looking for some nice people to share your soul with. Fear only leads to death and the Ego cannot love. Peace.
>>7961344
>the experience of an intense orgasm
has been adequately captured by untold numbers of smut writers
>being present at the birth of your first child
has been contextualized into words for the benefit of friends and family by just about everyone who has experienced it
>>7961505
It is useful. Very. Useful.
You should hear just some of the stories I'd heard. Incurable diseases. Life-long substance abuses. Childhood traumas. Some guy I'm with had chronic headache from the age of 9 and was an opiate trainwreck when I first met him.
During one of the sessions he smelled like some unventillated chemical lab. I got ill from sitting next to him. Never ever smelled anything more unnatural than what he vaped out, and hurled out. I could fucking feel he wanted to die at one point.
And now? He's the most quiet and peaceful guy I have met! From ADHD to choir boy in 9 months.
All fucking gone. Dissapeared. No hesdache. No pills. Miracles would be the definition of such. All subjects experiencing highly spiritual experiences.
Yo, guys! Why do we dream dreams when sleeping? DMT in the amygdala.
>>7961563
The Science is strong with this one!
Science. Has failed. Our world.
It's all cool though. Do some more critical thinking and get even further away from truth. You think you need to - but in reality you'd be better off, but someday you may realize this. 5 and 5 makes 10. Ugh, ugh! Yesh! I r smarts.
Atleast listen to some nice music. If you won't do that you can't be saved. It soothes you soul.
>>7961442
Elaborate, please, good sir. Why can't granny smith smoke her hernia-long-waited bowl of DMT because of me (the asshole)?
>>7958909
you fucking moron, phenethylamines are the body's endogeneous endorphin system. Saying that they dont have a place in your body is the dumbest fucking thing I've ever heard
look up beta phenethylamine, then kindly exit life
>>7957623
I take adderall daily to do my work, with large amounts of caffeine. After two energy drinks and two cups of coffee (about 6 hours into the workday) I start boozing on straight whiskey to coast me through the more mundane half of the workday, and as soon as i finish my last project for the day I take benzos and smoke some weed, down a 6 pack of beer, and take some tramadol or a small amount of morphine so I get sleep paralysis, which for me are always sex-oriented rather than fear or terror, and that's the only sexual relief I'll be getting any time soon. Wake up and start another 16 hour work day, rinse and repeat.
It's not degenerate if it's functional. I also smoke a pack a day, get occasional heart spasms, and am probably entering early stage liver failure. Fuck quitting any of it though, I'd rather just die young than go through any of those withdrawals, fuck.
>>7961611
>Hippies dedicate their lives to the drug
>Gubmint thinks it's heroin 2.0
>Hello Schedule 1
>Goodbye, research grants and clinical trials
People like you are why we will never make it to Schedule 2.
We can't even study this shit because degenerates make the fed uncomfortable. I could get morphine and cocaine in my uni's lab without much issue, but if I want to touch DMT it's a federal offense.
If you practiced self control it wouldn't be this way. We might actually be able to use it to help people instead of just letting hippies trip balls.
>>7961678
Dude, if i had to take adderall to work, i'd quit my job. Oh i found it impossible to work since i had to look to flip through folders allday as my 9 to 5, so my doctor or dumb ass shit friend recommended i take adderall, now i just fly through this meaningless nonsensical paperwork like nothing.
Sorry for the rant but WTF!
>>7961630
Riiight.
>>7961697
Yes. The slaves must not be freed. Blame hippies for doing their stuff.
How about just letting all that shit go? It won't help you in any way. And if that is a hippie advice well then excuse me. I'm not sniffing inorganic versions of our body's lighthouse molecule. Judge all people you want. That is not good for you either. Avoid the nutjobs, of course, but don't judge.
I'm drinking a holy and sacred brew in which the gates to both hell and heaven can be opened once a week and having plenty of gains from that. You shjould too. Native indians found the technology for that thousands of years ago and any corrupt repilian alien/elite would hate to see such a tech to be free for the public to use, setting people's minds free from the conditioning and programming into a materialistic reality based on fear and greed.
Which is something some people from time to time more or less has achieved with suddenly illegalized substances either with deadly doses or possibilities of addiction.
Our being and our cells have an incredible connection. A divine connection. Information-highway not to be interfered with. What would you ever really need to know, but yourself?
Deep down, we all know exactly what we need to know. We do not, however, chose what we are to be shown.. If we try to interfere - just like the double-slit experiment - we will just be laughed at and let off the ride. Evertime.
Conciousness is all and everything that is to be found. Nothing but energy, man.
>>7958879
But people are spoken to in English sentances
>>7960569
Knowing that what happens is a result of taking matter into your body doesn't take away value or power of the experience
>>7960598
>can't communicate = cannot actually comprehend
This is true sometimes but not a rule.
language fails to relay the experience.
what happens doesn't fit into language it is like puting a movie in an mp3 you lose all the video part of the file
>>7961697
This is like a black man who wears a suit telling a black man in white tee and baggy pants that it is because of the way you dress that white people treat us like shit.
>>7961744
yeah it's not like that for me
if i didn't have adderall, i'd just be doing mundane shit like that all day
it's hyper-attention yeah, but for me that comes out as hyper-attention to exploring new challenges that are my focus in life, not hyper-attention to the mundane like organizing folders or cleaning
that's actually what i do on days that i don't take adderall
i just become catatonic and clean all day, or do 15 loads of laundry
>>7961897
so, 100% true?
>>7961557
OK, I now understand that you have never had a really intense orgasm, and don't have children.
Next please, anyone else think words can adequately describe reality?
>>7961630
I don't agree. Sounds like he's had some experiences which go a little deeper than the usual superficiality of modern life.
>>7961897
Wanting to explore all avenues of medicine is not really the same type of pursuit as wanting to trip balls all day.
I'm not specifically arguing that it's a bad thing to want that. I think it's totally fine to seek that out in life. If I were in charge I'd say go for it.
But there are some people out there who don't feel the same way. The same people who write the checks and hold the keys.
It'd be a lot easier to convince those baby boomers at NIDA that there's nothing inherently abusable about DMT if we didn't have jackasses spending all day with it.
People like you ruin its image in the eyes of our totalitarian regime.
>>7961937
That was masterful.
>>7961909
You're better off.
>>7962680
You really don't know what they really are doing. You believe in the lie and you claim "it's because they do bad stuff" the regime won't tolerate their minions to do as they please. That's why "it's the hippies" doing bad stuff in your book. Even though you probably wanted to do something likewise "for science" like, pump some sorry being full of it and take notes of how much it spasms or the like.
Science has no regard of life, even though people believing in the church of science claim it's for the best for all of us to continue collecting data that never can prove anything or settle the desire to aquire knowledge. Like some iphone would heal me and make me happy.
You are the instrument. Science only can and will be able to slice things up. Machines. Electronics. Chemistry. You, on the other hand, are the divine tool of the universe. The final frontier is within yourself. Open up. Let go. Unravel yourself. You may need help to do so...!
Drink booze. Take meds. Don't try to work with anything powerful that expands your conciousness.
-
Regards, totalitarian regime.
Ps. Slay the hippies. Don't be free.
>>7960584
Spirituality is entirely a religious notion.
>>7960267
U R fgt, just saying
>>7958909
>your impressions of drug users have been heavily shaped by the kinds of idiots that do amphetamines and coke and benzos
There's literally nothing wrong with doing any of these except benzos will kill you if you stop.
Assuming we're not talking about heroic doses of course
>>7962835
Seconded. Well there's not literally nothing wrong with them, but a lot less wrong than a lot of people think.
>>7962788
>>Spirituality is entirely a religious notion.
he thinks the dichotomy spiritual-material is not scientific
>>7962788
Semantics is entirely about words.
>>7962729
>You, on the other hand, are the divine tool of the universe. The final frontier is within yourself.
This should be written on the inside cover of every science textbook.
>>7962860
>hurr durr words mean what I want them to mean because I say so and if you disagree it's just like, semantics, dude.
Please kill yourself
>>7962866
I was taking the piss out of anon's spiritual-religious confabulation with an ironic circular description of my own. OK, you can feel stupid now.
>>7962788
Have you ever had a spiritual experience?
Religions don't got copyrights on any of our spiritual experiences. Some dare to let go in churches or wherever.
Religions with rulebooks imho limit people's spiritual horizon.. But it's important to feel connected to your surroundings especially from early life.
Religion proclaims spirituality, or promises it. That's why it's hard to live for people (like I was) who defy their own divine connection just because the religions all proclaims some sort of truth.
I just doubted what I feared - and the reason to why everyone got fear is almost always the fear of the unknown.
Everyone who had some experiences want others to take part in that. Humility, compassion, patience, stuff like that can be learned from religious practices and are prerequisites for spirituality. Spirituality is always one's own pratice, and religions don't empathize that so much, because of the need of authority and structure.
It's like having a designated playground for kids. Play here, only - pray, now! Sing like this. Don't sing. Chant. Sit. Stand. Bow. Whatever. All religion is always about the same thing, just expressed differently and sadly, also by lesser beings who have learned some tricks and do what some may call black magic. The madness runs deep, and the dark parts in all of us should be lit up in controlled and loving envionments.
But, you gotta start off somewhere, right?
I take walks in nature and get high from spiritual experiences all the time. I belong here. I get healed from being in the present as much as possible. I find peace in the now. Tranquility. Spirituality is basically all about that. Heck, I even cried a bit when my cousin's kid got baptized just because life's just so grand, you know?
People who've locked that part of them can counterbalance the fear of death, or other kinds of suffering we're bound to experience in life.
Play the game but don't think it's real. Peace out.
>>7962862
That made me very happy to read. Thank you.
>>7962874
Oh, and then I looked at your image, I see, you are the same anon, and you are using *part of* the table of contents for the wikipedia page to prove your point, which was that "Spirituality is entirely a religious notion." Well it does show that the compilers consider religion a category within spirituality. I have no problem with that, but it does not say anything about your point. You really are pretty stupid. I don't like just slagging people off, but fuck man, you'll have to do better than that.
>>7962877
People who've unlocked*
>>7962879
You're welcome. I'm enjoying your posts.
>>7958722
I know what the word means, I'm fucking asking about how it's perceived in that context.
>>7962877
Spiritual experiences out of drugs, imagination and techniques are demons.
>>7962877
>>7962882
Hmmm
>>7962889
Not the anon you are replying to, but I disagree. I've had LSD experiences which have said more to me about reality than normal waking consciousness does. I think it's already been said here, but that statement can be considered rational if you consider the mode of action of LSD as removing some of the filters our brains place on our perception. Beyond hallucination there is a different perceptual experience, which some might call spiritual.
>>7962889
ever heard of kaneh-bosm?
>>7957447
>when people started saying that because drugs get us high there is "meaning" and "purpose" behind the interaction
1. Have you experienced the drug yourself?
2. Why can it not be true, in your opinion, other than that you don't want it to be true?
>>7962889
People seeing UFOs all had a spiritual experience. All of them.
Real-time and full-blown hallucinations while being completely awake are quite real. Lots of people have seen the same hallucination together, too.
That's DNA giving you the message you need. Usually it's a kind of awakening.
People smoking weed has a lot of these. Cannabis is an entheogen, too, and can awaken some kind of connection to 'god' too. My relationship with Mary Jane is kinda like the one I think some people got with the street prostetute, though. I have burned myself plenty on her.
Though every kind of entheogen is different. All of them are like the religions you participate in to connect with your spiritual being in some sory of way. Some may kill you while others are very safe, like Ayahuasca can be in the right groups. Some give you a sense of reward, but Ayahuasca never gives off the same deal twice. You are awakeningand may fall into 'work' some later time in the week. I had some with my whiplash doing stuff without me controlling it and I have gained greatly from these trances.
In my group I have seen some newbies launch into what psychiactrics would call skitzophrenia or psychosis. Now I'm a bit more experienced it's clear for me (I've been through that too) what kinda 'steps' some may take.
Some may take a big jump though, and skip a lot of stages others may struggle with leaping off from and it's all up to you how much you dare to let go, but you will always land again, unless you think negatively, act negatively or speak negatively under the meditations.
Those negative energies are very present in this kind of work. Once I judged a gay guy for being gay and even though I only thought negatively about him, it came right back at me and I fell into a time loop or maze where I forgot, died and realized who I was maybe a few hundred times in a full-scanle panic attack that gave me body pains. I have in no way experienced any fear worse than that one time.
Take care.
>>7963120
>Real-time and full-blown hallucinations while being completely awake are quite real. Lots of people have seen the same hallucination together, too
The telepathy is the big one. Even people not using the drugs can feel it - all the doubters should sit in on a trip and feel it themselves.
>People smoking weed has a lot of these. Cannabis is an entheogen, too, and can awaken some kind of connection to 'god' too
Sometimes, when I smoke I get a glimmer of the magic. I smoke only to induce flashbacks, honestly.
What I really want is salvia.
>>7963196
I know a guy who had some experiences with Salvia Divinorum. He's on to Aya now. A very kind man.
Synchronization and the high-strung vibes we all send out are indeed very subtle. Many people aren't aware the slightest that they are swimming it it and it dictates the rythm of everything we do around us.
Music really is the artform closest to our soul. After starting on my meditation even the traffic outside has filled in with a lot of my routines to the extend of even the music I play get "comments", or even funnier. Once I jacked off I thought to my self "I'm like a monkey right now" one second before that fucking kid right outside my apartment made monkey sounds wile walking with his dad. UU-IIII-AAH-AHH! LOL!
I've had loads of that kind of experiences. I'm growing medical marijuana and one of two grannies outside once spoke up that she's always thinking of cannabis when she's right there. That was when I planned to do it..
Apparently I still am quite telepathically active even when I sleep. Now I don't need that much "personal space". People have been kind to me in my times of troubles.
Two floors up an alcoholic once made a ruckus and woke up everyone in the apartment. He finally stopped banging the wall right after I 'told him' "it's all right". Not in words, but with my heart and soul, because after hearing such noices everyone should be able to feel him even from afar. It took some time tuning in on him though since he was very upset. He needed to be heard and felt by someone. That state he was in also was what psychiatrists would call a psychosis.
Now, more or less, I'm completely used to it already.
>>7957447
Okay listen up nerds.
DMT or any other drug that alters your state of consciousness is just a method for your mind to open up to the reality that you are god.
That's the secret. have fun. Magic is real, you are everyone else and everyone else is you. this is a game you are playing with yourself because you got bored. be nice to each other and get over it.
>>7963284
>DMT or any other drug that alters your state of consciousness is just a method for your mind to open up to the reality that you are god.
[citation needed]
>>7963290
he's obviously joking for fucks sake
>>7963290
Citations:
-Godel Escher Bach, an Eternal Golden Braid
-I Am a Strange Loop
-The Allegory of the Cave
-YOU
I could go on. but don't take my word for it, or literally anyone Else's word who is screaming this out to you at the top of their lungs; in their own way of course. Go take a psychedelic or a disassociative and try not to forget everything this time.
Have fun
>>7963297
so was i
sorry i forgot this was autistics anonymous
>>7963108
1. yes
2. Let's present two conclusions:
a) being high on drugs is a natural response to a foreign stimulus, given that our brains are biological machines whose operations respond to environmental conditions and subjective conscious experiences will necessarily change when neural environment changes by introducing foreign substances
b. being high on something means that there is "meaning" and "purpose" behind being high on drugs
One is a logical conclusion; the other is not.
>>7961937
OK, I now understand that you are delusional and you are willing to deny reality in order to protect your ego.
Next please, anyone else dumb enough to not be able to describe an orgasm or childbirth?
>>7961860
This is true - you can't take value or power away from something which possesses neither
>>7963357
>it r troo bc douglas hofstadter said so
GEB is just a 777-page manifesto on "consciousness is hard to understand" dressed up with poor understanding of genetics and obtuse number theory considerations
>>7963415
why don't you describe an orgasm
>>7963426
no silly rabbit. just an example of someone a text describing the concept in terms of their understanding.
But like I said. you'll have to find out for yourself, if you are indeed the right Alice.
>>7963359
DESU I thought you were being an autist
it's probably with the delusional hippy schizo in this thread getting to my head
>>7963440
It starts with all the obvious things in the obvious places – tingling, warm sensations in my clit, my cunt. A tightness in my chest that’s warm too. Most of these things are incidental, unnoticeable while I focus on whatever’s making them happen – my thighs wrapped round someone, the quick urgent movements that I’m making to rub myself up against something that feels good.
But at a certain point they start to take over. The sensation of movement in my muscles is eclipsed by a slight feeling of weakness in my limbs, and a building tightness at the base of my stomach.
And when the tightness builds, the waves start. Slowly at first, there’s a creeping sensation just at the top of my thighs. If I focus I can make it come quicker – make me come quicker. The waves build and I feel close to falling into it. No, not falling as such, but letting go. Relaxing. I feel like I’m on the brink of an amazing stretch or a yawn, something that will push relief out through all of my limbs.
When the actual orgasm hits, it hits at the base of my stomach again. I couldn’t pinpoint where until about three months ago when someone showed me an MRI scan of the clitoris. The clitoris, like the most unusual iceberg you ever saw, has more below the surface than you’d imagine. Nerve endings stretch back into the body and up through your groin, to that magical place in your gut. When I come, I feel it in my clit – not just the surface but through my whole clit, deep into my body.
The waves – usually between 5-10 of them, run up from that place, pushing yawn-like relief through my muscles, then quickly wash back down to my stomach and my crotch. Up, back, up and back, starting strong and powerful and gradually getting calmer. Until my thighs tremble and my arms feel weak, and the ache in my muscles takes over again.
>>7963465
Well thank you anon, that proves my point. Words are maps, which when describing perceptual states convey next to nothing about the actual territory.
>>7957447
Ima try to get beneath some of the semantics here. Psychedelic drugs can offer a larger perspective in a way that cannot be described. Debate the merits and reasons if you want...
They can cause us to function outside of our conditioned actions and responses. The clearest, most concrete example is the use of Ibogaine to treat opiate addiction. Look into it if you want.
Since it is our conditioning (imposed or self controlled) that gives us our self - identity, extreme psychedelic experiences can cause something like "ego death"
DMT is so powerful, that with a good dose, ego death occurs in the first 30 seconds or so. With lesser psychedelics, we can sometimes try to fight it off, and have a bad trip doing so. With DMT it doesn't matter much how hard you fight, you will be gone, you will cease to exist as yourself. You may have a fleeting thought about how strange it is that you usually see things as a particular person, with a particular name. This is why these experiences can have a nature which can be taken as "spiritual".
People can gain a sense of perspective and well being from therapy, or just talking honestly with others - a view from outside ourselves. Psychedelics can work by this same mechanism, only x 100.
This can be taken for what it is, and be genuinely grounding and helpful, or it can be clung on to too tight and used as a means of escape and avoidance. It all depends if you were ready in the first place, and how you take the experience when its over.
Having a "purpose" or "meaning" behind the experience does not imply that there is some freaky outside interdimensional "reality" guiding us, or anything farfetched. It is completely understandable without introducing any metaphysical interpretation or belief
>>7963483
Well thank you anon, that proves my point. You are delusional and will deny reality staring you in the face to protect your ego.
>>7963465
>>7963511
Believing that there is "purpose" or "meaning" behind being on drugs is mighty silly no matter the metaphysics
>>7963537
you missed my point. If there is a mechanism involved, that the user finds helpful, then the "meaning" debate is not relavent. Same for any drug, or anything for that matter. If your psychotic, and Zyprexa allows you to live a better life, you don't really have to think about the metaphysics of the zyprexa experience
>>7957447
Skip the vid, but don't skip the drug. It's something else for sure
>>7963529
Get your own conversational style, gimp.
>>7963537
Sounds like you missed the point made about LSD reducing our brains' sensory input filtering system. The possibility there is to get more of reality, not less.
>>7963786
... yeah, people tend to miss points when they make their minds up right out of the gate.
>>7963786
There is no "more of reality"
There is proper function of your sensory and cognitive faculties, and then there is drug-altered function of your sensory and cognitive faculties.
>>7963842
>There is no "more of reality"
of course there is more, do you think you can sense everything?
>>7963877
Do you think LSD gives you the ability to see gamma rays?
>>7963842
"Proper", according to whom? Other humans?
The Bible?
>>7963881
how cool would that be, no
but perception is a lot more than sensory input, you know that
>>7963842
Wow, I'm sorry, but you really don't know what you're talking about. If you don't believe me, look up the action of LSD. Talk to a boxer or martial artist about how their perception of time is altered when sparring. Listen to music stoned on hash. Talk to a healer or meditator about expanded perception. You are only speaking from what you know, which isn't much, believe me.
>>7963842
This is quite sad. Even without drugs, have you never experienced anything that made you come alive, see the world anew, feel life all around you? Expanded your senses and made you appreciate music, art, nature, being with a child? Do have one grey level of sensate experience all the time?
>>7963901
Wow, I'm sorry, but you're really mad
Drugs are fun, I know, I was 18 once too. When you start exalting drug-induced states you're creating a problem.
>>7963911
>one grey level of sensate experience
holy left field conclusions batman
>>7963911
Yes of course. But hallucinations are not the same thing. They have the illusion of profundity without actually being profound. Whereas all the experiences you described are actually profound because they are connected to experienced reality.
>>7963919
Not mad, and I haven't taken drugs in 30 years.
>>7963929
This would be true if what happens on LSD is hallucination. Obviously some experiences are, the carpet goes wavy, your friend looks like a Rembrandt painting for a while, whatever. But there is an experience beyond these superficial ones which is reported by many, many people who have taken psychedelics. If you don't believe me or the other anon who is talking about that here, then read up on it for yourself. Aldous Huxley's Doors of Perception is a good place to start. To rule out such experiences as illusion is to misunderstand completely. Read the descriptions, then read descriptions of peak experiences, meditative states, etc.
>>7963957
It's feedback modulation in neural circuits
we do it all the time anyway, drugs and other intense experiences just do it harder. it's not profound, it's not meaningful, it's just how things are
>>7957511
People who have taken DMT tend to recount incredible, usually unique tales about their experiences. Often it's on the level of "colors were so bright and vivid" or "I could taste sounds" or some such hippy nonsense.
However, one common experience that has been claimed to have occurred by many users is that they could feel a "presence" or even saw a humanoid shape or figure. Sometimes they just stand there, sometimes they reach out towards them or are doing other things. But the sensing of some kind of ethereal, almost ghost-like being has been recounted many times. Some say they're aliens, or inter-dimensional beings. Some claim to have full conversations. It really hasn't been taken seriously, or studied objectively to any degree to my knowledge. But the fact that it seems to be a common occurrence is interesting to me.
>>7964023
Given that there are hardwired neurological systems for recognizing other people, their shapes, and their faces in the brain, and drugs cause neurological systems to register stimuli differently than normal, I'd say this is neither surprising nor any sign of some higher meaning
DUDE DMT LMAO
>>7957476
philistines, the lot of you
>>7957562
thats 5-MeO-DiPT not DMT
>>7964023
>Often it's on the level of "colors were so bright and vivid" or "I could taste sounds" or some such hippy nonsense.
you can get those through meditation.
what matters is what you do with what you are concious.
people love to differentiate between , realities, and other events which they qualify as not-real. This is nice when you cling to your idea of the relevance of ''reality''.
Once you understand that the objects of your conciousness are all irrelevant to your life, that whatever you are concious has no ground for being taken seriously, you stop being an hedonist.
But people who take drugs are too hedonistic to accept this and love too much what they feel and think. Of course, they whine that the fruits of the drugs wears out.
taking drugs, at the beginning, middle or end of a spiritual quest, is already admitting to be an hedonist and will never ever have anything to do with spirituality.
>>7962894
>kaneh-bosm
Not that anon but I like that stuff
>>7963842
>and then there is drug-altered function of your sensory and cognitive faculties.
So your brain is always on drugs. Yes there is a difference between endogenous drugs and those that the body doesn't use in normal metabolism but they are still drugs.
>>7957447
>Watch
>Not read
>>7963412
Your b is formulated in a way that it cannot be a logical conclusion.
You're doing this to win an argument instead of trying to find the truth.
How about this instead:
>b. being high on something means that you can see "meaning" and "purpose" you couldn't see before
>>7964023
>DMT
>Often it's on the level of "colors were so bright and vivid" or "I could taste sounds" or some such hippy nonsense
That doesn't sound like a typical description of even a lackluster dose of DMT. Sounds more like the typical idiot's description of LSD.
>>7966166
Not him but fine ''mind altering chemicals''
Why is everyone here so quick to dismiss the possibility of true answers lying within our grasp? I'm not saying that I believe that something like DMT is some miracle drug that holds the knowledge of everything, but without actually experiencing it's effects, you can't really comment.
A neurologist explained her trip on DMT and described something which seemed liked interdimensional travel. It's possible that other dimensions that can't be perceived exist, how can you be so sure that this doesn't allow you to experience it?
>>7967012
>hallucinogenic allows sudden perception and insight into hidden dimensions of reality, which are otherwise undetectable.
but how can u b sure xD
>yes I have experienced LSD
>>7967190
It's absolutely fascinating to experience what your mind does when you take something like LSD.
All the usual 'rules and standards' of cognitive processing start getting distorted and broken.
Your awareness of time stumbles, flickers, speeds up, disappears, returns..
Your perception of the environment that you're in becomes unreliable. Dimensions go out the window, visual relations between objects become aberrant.
When I took LSD it was in the city botanic gardens. I couldn't tell the length of a path or the height of a step. Where we reached clearings with many paths branching away, I felt the sensation of having come from every direction at once.
Your brain stops working properly...
That's a far, far more believable explanation than 'dude hidden dimensions lmao'
