What are the rules as far as Sigma-Aldrich and other chemical suppliers selling lab chemicals to people who aren't professionals/ institutions? Will they sell me concentrated acids and other reagents that require special care within reason (not like elemental fluorine or some ridiculous shit)?
I know there is some stuff I can't buy because it is DEA restricted or whatever, but if I order stuff that can be used to make it would that be OK? Like let's say I need phenylacetone for an experiment and order benzaldehyde then order nitroethane a few months later. Will they look at my purchase history and flag me as being able to make phenylacetone and send the DEA to shoot my dog?
I'm wondering because my uni financial aid is getting suspended since I withdrew from too many classes and I want to continue my study of chemistry on my own at home.
take your pedophile cartoons back to >>>/a/
>>7946188
> Will they look at my purchase history
Yes.
> send the DEA to shoot my dog?
If you order precursors to methamphetamine from Sigma-Aldrich, they are required by law to send your shipping address and payment info to the DEA.
Seriously, do you think you're the only one to ever pick up the Anarchist's Cookbook?
>>7946188
>I want to continue my study of chemistry on my own at home
this is pretty fucking stupid
>>7946188
>I want to continue my study of chemistry on my own at home
You don't need chemicals to do that.
>>7946213
>precursors to methamphetamine
You mean precursors to plastic polymers?
>>7946227
this.
what the actual fuck OP are you 2 rich?
>>7946188
Anything you could use to make drugs is watched, unless you go all the way back to a total synthesis.
>>7946319
How many steps back would that be? All drugs are organic molecules, you could theoretically make any drugs or precursors from a wide variety common compounds containing C, O2, and N2.
>>7946228
If by plastic polymers you mean meth, then yes.
>>7946325
Yeah you would need a real lab and real skills, even then it wouldn't be worth the time and expense.
>>7946325
>you could theoretically make any drugs or precursors from a wide variety common compounds containing C, O2, and N2.
STOP NOW
T
O
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>>7946325
This is by far the most stupid shit I've read on this board in my 4 years being on here.
>>7946444
It's true.
Given extensive lab equipment and knowledge, you could just order a tank of Oxygen, a tank of Nitrogen, and some Carbon and make whatever out of it.
>>7946188
I know a guy who bus from Canady and just adds 'Dr' to his address.
So even though his address it's like 5620 rural county hwy 5, PO box 8374 ect, he has 'Dr.' in front of his name and he gets whatever he wants.
He bought some solenoid circuit breaker full of radioactive gas that opens a circuit via induced gamma ray emission he got for 37 cents he just has and a 67 ounce synthetic sapphire for a infrared scope he uses as a paperwight he got for 4.99$.
To be NEET and ambitious, idk.
If you are a backwoods meth cooker/ moonshiner in some shithole in the hills, but you put 'Ingersoll-Riechmann Chemicals, LLC Appalachia Division, Site Four' in the address block, you will get chemicals sent to you. Your mailman doesn't read the first line and the first line is all the manufacturer will read.
They want to believe, so hard. Give them a legit sounding place to mail their product. They really don't care.
>>7946462
>>Induced gamma emission circuit breaker
tell me more
>>7946484
I'm exaggerating, he bought a pair of high-voltage circuit breakers full of hexasulfur something controlled by the EPA from Canada just because it cost less or him to buy it than it's weight in copper scrap. So he bought and scrapped them.
The exotic greenhouse gas inside was just released back to mother nature.
>>7946483
Whether the mailman delivers it or not is not the issue. If you order that stuff, your name is on a list and better be able to prove your legitimate use of said chemicals.
>>7946325
This guy went full BALOOGA on this one.
>>7946494
Believe it or not, nobody actually cares about what chemicals get mailed where. Even fewer than nobody cares about your worthless fucking name.
I just fuckin said, whatever name you put there is irrelevant. You don't need to use your real name. You insert the name of of your """"company""""" instead of your name. Canada doesn't have a list of real companies or real people they are allowed to mail benzyl chlorode or propanoic anhydrien to.
You don't even need to have it mailed to a real place, a PO box or warehouse lot will do fine to.
>>7946508
http://www.deadiversion.usdoj.gov/chem_prog/34chems.htm
>>7946464
ANON STOP
>>7946517
Oh right, because once you fill out and submit the paperwork declaring what you ordered and purchased and had delivered, then the authorities will know!
Or you could forget to mail the paperwork and... receive a tax penalty!
Or do you mean the million-strong army of accountants, FBI agents and chemical-sniffing dogs and military logisticans will root you out and raid your home, shoot you full of holes because you ordered a bottle of precursor agent?
>>7946525
Just asking. I don't know the answer, that's why I'm asking. So far I haven't gotten any response that's worth a shit.
>>7946539
Uh.. yeah, you're right? Go ahead and order some listed chemicals, and please report how far you get with that.
>>7946548
As far as you want, they only track orders over 200 gallons.
As much you'd think things are run by innumerable ultra-competent enforcers, irl, this is not the case and you can buy vast quantities of whatever chemicals you like and nobody will actually ask you for the paperwork.
What are they going to find if they investigate you for buying 190 gallons of diethyl ether? Some neet in his mom's basement trying to remove paint from his collection of Wh40k soldiers or get his ICE powered robot to start?
>>7946553
I said you're right. Go ahead and order that shit. I don't see any problem with it.
>>7946483
>Ingersoll-Riechmann Chemicals, LLC Appalachia Division, Site Four
Wew lad
>>7946227
Not OP, but working with things hands on given me insight that lead to better understanding.
There are practical problems that one encounters when working with chemicals that may not be fully appreciated if everything has been learned solely from a text book.
>>7946541
you'll never get an answer worth anything from a chemist
>>7946325
Disclaimer: I am not a professional chemist, but this question is of interest to me, so I figure I'll chime in until somebody with real expertise can give us a definitive answer.
The way I see it, it might not be theoretically impossible to synthesize various complex molecules (drugs that aren't simple molecules) from elemental compounds of elements (C(s), O2(g), H2(g), N2(g)), but it's certainly practically impossible at this point in time, and will most likely remain that way for a very long time, if not indefinitely.
First of all, almost all drugs have one or more of these: amino acids (e.g. peptide hormones, protein hormones), adipose moieties, and carbon rings.
In order to synthesize any of these, you will need to move out of the realm of chemistry and into the realm of physical chemistry. As far as I'm aware, none of these compounds have ever been synthesized from scratch (i.e. from their basic elemental constituents). You would need some kind of incredibly precise instrument that could isolate several different atoms (incredibly small spatial scales) and bring these together in a controlled fashion to force them to bond to each other. No such apparatus exists today.
As an example, most carbon rings are enzymatically synthesized, but that means you'll have to synthesize enzymes first, which are peptides and polypeptides, which consist of amino acids that you can't synthesize from elemental constituents.
TL;DR: Theoretically possible, practically impossible.
>>7946712
Thank you for that, I hadn't thought of it in those terms.
>>7946712
Addendum: It is worth noting that my post is only valid for total synthesis from elemental compounds, as specified in my post.
From wikipedia: Total synthesis is the complete chemical synthesis of a complex molecule, often a natural product, from simple, commercially available precursors. It usually refers to a process not involving the aid of biological processes, which distinguishes it from semisynthesis.
As you can see here, wikipedia's definition does not require total synthesized compounds to be synthesized from their elemental constituents, but from "simple, commercially available precursors [...] not involving the aid of biological processes". E.g. glucose is much, much more complex than elemental compounds, but they fit the definition given above.
What I'm trying to say is that at some threshold of complexity, it becomes increasingly viable to synthesize more complex compounds. This is, however, not in the scope of the original question or my post, for obvious reasons.
>>7946722
Just out of interest, in what terms did you think of it? I am interested in hearing about your train of thought, if you don't mind.
>>7946462
>67 ounce synthetic sapphire for a infrared scope he uses as a paperwight he got for 4.99$.
Pls link
>>7946892
>I'm not trying to make shitty drugs, I want to follow OChem lab manuals
Where's the difference?
Whether you're synthesizing drugs or other shit, it's all the same thing.
>>7946892
You can literally pass by purchasing shit grade chemicals on ebay or someplace. You want to follow a fucking lab manual so "muh purity" is invalid. Lastly, if you do not know how to obtain chemicals, I guarantee you'll end up killing yourself whilst following orgo lab manuals.
>>7946945
So why aren't those regulated? I'd think it would be the opposite. Some backwoods hick or ghetto nignog making meth in a gas can isn't going to care if his shit is ACS grade or the purity of his product, he's going to buy the cheapest he can.
>>7946956
>muh purity
Is it actually illegal to own DEA listed chemicals, or do they just have to report it? Would they actually show up to investigate some NEET who bought a liter of benzaldehyde?
>>7946975
It's okay to order List I and II chemicals. But they will report you to the DEA if you order kilograms of toluene, diethylamine, acetone, etc., They'll also obviously report suspicious orders aka: orders that include large quantities of chemical precursors to controlled substances. By large quantity, I mean well over 2 - 5kg
>>7946975
If you're some neet who orders 4L of toluene, nothing happens. But if you ordered at least 5kg of phosphorus, nitrogenating agents, and various aromatic compounds along with liters of sulfuric acid all in one order. They will report your order to the DEA.
>>7946963
>purity isn't important, just buy the cheapest shit on alibaba
ChemE detected
>>7946541
It's possible, but you'd open a huge fucking can of worms. You could end up making a lot of simple compounds, but it'd be a fucking grab bag of them; you'd have to jump through an impossibly large number of hoops just to characterize and separate your newly formed compounds, and then you'd still be lucky if you got anything useful.
>>7946712
>The way I see it, it might not be theoretically impossible to synthesize various complex molecules (drugs that aren't simple molecules) from elemental compounds of elements (C(s), O2(g), H2(g), N2(g)), but it's certainly practically impossible at this point in time, and will most likely remain that way for a very long time, if not indefinitely.
>First of all, almost all drugs have one or more of these: amino acids (e.g. peptide hormones, protein hormones), adipose moieties, and carbon rings.
What is the Miller–Urey experiment, retard?
I swear /sci/ has the dumbest posters
>>7947101
>implying a home lab will use anything past food grade chemical purity
I want to recreate breaking bad: the thread
>>7947898
fuck off
I can't believe I actually missed the old chemistry meme (exploding test tubes).
>>7947882
Then please tell me how the fuck you'd synthesize the methane necessary to even start the experiment, or the remaining 497 remaining known amino acids of the 500 known amino acids that the experiment didn't produce.
Please guys, think for half a second before posting, unless you want to embarrass yourself completely like this fucking asshole.
>>7948101
Are you stupid or something? If you have the right procedure you can do some crazy things. I mean how do you think tweakers do it?
>>7948177
>how do you think tweakers do it
Most illicit drugs are Orgo I
>>7948183
And Orgo lab is piss easy.
>>7948189
That's my point, as opposed to the total synthesis from elements. The Miller-Ulrey experiment wasn't controlled, they just threw stuff in there, watched what happened, and got what they got.
