study CS because im interested in how a computer works and I want to learn about the challenges in the field at the moment.
All the other people:
> I want to make an app and get rich
> I want to be video game programmer
> I dont care about anything just tell me how I earn money as a Codemonkey
> Im an autist sperg thats actually interested but I have an IQ of 80 and/or Im a Social outcast
> Im fat and I dont know how to shower
> Im cool but stupid
why does it have to be like that?
You forgot me, smart but lazy.
CS is popular, has perspective and is viewed by many as the road to the money, therefore it will be plagued by retards.
On the bright side, once you get to the grad school, you will meet more likeminded people, who are actually knowledgeable in the field and not cancerous.
>>7909306
valid points all
but why do you care?
>>7909306
you are in one of those categories
>>7909306
Nailed it right on the head. just give me money.
I am all of them plus the classic "smart and lazy"
Feels incredibly bad, man
>>7909306
>
i can't really see how these are worse than being an academic.
> I want to learn for the sake of learning.
>>7909309
Literally me too
>don't do shit in class
>ace tests
>>7909306
Wow Anon. You are truly special and unique. I want you to add some bubbles to the warm bath of self richeousness you bath yourself in every second of the day.
Remember. You must always ask yourself this questions: why am I so much better than everyone else?
This my friend, is the path to immortality as a one of a kind snowflake
>>7909306
Post github pls.
>>7909306
As you progress in CS, you will realize that the retards start to fade away as the courses end up filtering them out after a good 2 - 3 years or so.
>>7909309
A lot of smart people are lazy. They get used to being smart and don't learn to work. Eventually life gets to the point where smartness wont get them anywhere and they have to know how to work. But they never learned so they are screwed.
>>7909306
>study CS because im interested in how a computer works
You might be looking more for computer engineering.
>>7909306
>how a computer works
CS is not the place to go but I suppose you mean you wanted to learn how a computer does things.
Great then buy:
>Any data structures book
>CLRS
>Any programming book
Congratulations, there is your CS degree.
That is why all of the great milestones in computer science have been achieved by Mathematicians like Donald Knuth and Djikstra, physicists like Richard Stallman and engineers like Ivan Sutherland.
Not a single great CS 'discovery' has been made by someone who did an undergrad in computer science, even though by the time all of these people were alive, CS was already an undergrad degree.
>>7909309
I knew a guy like this, who really was smart. When he finally got his shit together and started caring about his future, fuck, he became an unstoppable force.
oh its saturday
>>7909731
> NEETs on suicide watch
Do not underestimate the autistic spergs, they are smarter than they look.
Knew a sperg who used to go around hitting people with dragon dildos(THIS IS NOT A JOKE), but he got the best grades in all his classes so he could get away with it.
>>7909643
So you know that knowing is bad? That seems impossible.
I think you are just a lazy dumbass expressing how bad you feel when you realize you are dumb as fuck
>>7909309
you mean mediocre and lazy. you can't know if you're smart if you haven't pushed yourself
>>7909723
>>Any data structures book
>>CLRS
>>Any programming book
Only a shitty CS degree would contain only these things.
Not to mention that the people who made discoveries in CS were actually already past graduation level
>>7909798
It is not needed to be said but I guess I have to say it. These things plus any valid college education (math, physics or engineering) makes you a CS graduate.
So basically, just study anything that is not CS and then read these books. I personally just have CLRS because I learned data structures and programming from websites online but you get the idea. You will immediately become a computer scientist better than any CS graduate.
>>7909798
Shit, I didn't answer to the second part of your post.
>Not to mention that the people who made discoveries in CS were actually already past graduation level
Yeah but CS as an academic degree was established in 1953. by the time all these people did their things there were many, many Computer Science graduates and Computer Science PhD yet none of them did shit.
In fact, Don Knuth (mathematician) got an honorary CS degree when he basically saw that the compiler of his university's computer was code monkey-tier garbage and decided to casually write his own compiler that ended up being much faster and much more elegant.
So basically a mathematics student single handedly BTFO a bunch of CS that had already graduated and were even hired to I guess just jump around and throw poo at people.
>>7909811
>These things plus any valid college education (math, physics or engineering) makes you a CS graduate.
Again
>Only a shitty CS degree would contain only these things.
In fact, only "very shitty" ones.
>I personally just have CLRS because I learned data structures and programming from websites online but you get the idea. You will immediately become a computer scientist better than any CS graduate.
Knowing how to write a bubblesort in lisp doesn't make you a computer scientist.
Knowing programming does not make you a computer scientist ether.
>>7909819
>Yeah but CS as an academic degree was established in 1953
This does not mean much, not many institutions had a CS degree back then. Not to mention that it was not well known or respected back then.
>>7909899
>Knowing programming does not make you a computer scientist ether.
Same for knowing algorithms.
I'm in higher education for computer science as a vocation. I have no interest outside of making money. Did you know that Fermat was a lawyer? He received his degree in civil law at the University of Orléans. His vocation was lawyer but his avocation was mathematician. Vocation [math]\neq[/math] avocation.
>>7909649
there is not smart genius but lazy my fellow mensa friend :)
any retard can study cs
but only smart people can get good at it
If you were genuinly interested in CS you would be studying right now instead of gossiping for validation you /r9k/ feelfag.
You probably just finished your first semester and feel all proud.
>>7909306
what do i take undergrad if im interested in machine learning? already know data structures built a compiler etc
>>7909899
>In fact, only "very shitty" ones.
Those books plus the solid background of math and logic from a math degree make you fit for any kind of study of computers and computer programs. Then if you want to get into AI or ML then just buy books for those topics.
>Knowing how to write a bubblesort in lisp doesn't make you a computer scientist.
You are downplaying the information found in a book of CLRS. Sorting algorithms are probably the first 20 pages of a 1000 page book.
Honestly CLRS gives you all the core mathematical tools you need to analyze algorithms. For anything more specific, there are always books for that.
>not well known or respected back then.
Well, it is not respect nowadays either. The only people who respect it are non-STEM people that think computers are magic and fat neckbeards with dreams of making it big in the worse part of the software industry (videogaymes). Basically, only terribly uninformed people.
>>7909913
Machine Learning is basically statistics.
>>7909916
>computers and computer programs
CS is not about computers and a big part of it is not about programs ether.
>>7909916
>You are downplaying the information found in a book of CLRS. Sorting algorithms are probably the first 20 pages of a 1000 page book.
The algorithms of CLRS (and algorithms in general) are only a small part of CS.
You tottaly put in my mind my brother he's all swagger and no substance, who wants to work for bethesda
>>7909923
implying its not literally statistics. the difficult part is interfacing it with subjective concepts
>>7909306
I feel you OP. I'm switching my majors from Engineering to CS. I feel like I'd be more happy in CS because I like Math and want to learn how to program etc.
>>7909945
you should learn the history of your craft, its expected future, and your place in that future. if your goal is to simply get hired, a change in direction would be mostly irrelevant
>>7909926
It could be worse. He could want to be an Indie game dev. If your brother fulfills his dream and somehow ends up at Bethesda he'll have at the very least have a reliable source of income. Wanting to be an Indie Game Dev is setting you life goal to be be broken both mentally and monetarily.
>>7909306
Your motivation is clearly superior to those of the people in your class. Thanks for telling.
>>7909913
How do you study machine learning?
Isn't it all about having the right data? There are already a lot of efficient machine learning algorithms out there that are not hard to understand and implement. Or do you want to come up with better ones?
>>7909306
>autist sperg
>IQ of 80
Pick -e^(iπ)
>>7910065
kek
>how do you study x? I thought I should just grab what's there and use it :^)
fucking code monkey
>>7910073
most autists are borderline retarded, lots of them thinks their social retardation gives them superpowers or something but it usually doesn't
>>7909306
Oh man you're such a special snowflake, you're so much better than them!
Why don't all these other people like what you like? What the heck man!
>>7909306
>interested in how a computer works
Why aren't you majoring in computer engineering?
>>7910077
Superpowers? No. Distinct absolute advantages and contextual disadvantages (those around the necessity of interacting with/depending on neurotypical society)? Yes.
>>7909943
That doesn't make a lick of sense.
>>7909811
>no operating systems
>no compilers
>no automatas
>no formal languages
>no artificial intelligence
>no programming paradigms
>no advanced algorithms (CLRS is very basic)
>no database systems (there's more to it than learning basic SQL)
>no software engineering/architecture
Also, there's lots of math you should get too (combinatorics, graph theory, some group theory...)
No you don't have a CS degree there
>>7909723
I would add in books on:
>Computer Organization
>Probability (using calculus)
>Graph Theory and Combinatorics
>Operating Systems
>Networks
>Computer Security
>Programming Languages
>Theory of Computation
>Compilers
>AI/Machine Learning
if you want to have a good basis in CS.
>>7909798
>Only a shitty CS degree would contain only these things.
Most CS degrees are shitty. Take a look at the current curricula at most schools; the course requirements have been gutted and rarely go beyond algorithms.
>>7910201
Discrete mathematics, category theory, linear algebra, etc
>>7909306
You are forgetting the most annoying ones that read Wikipedia articles on math/cs topics and know OF advanced material but don't actually understand shit about it. They're constantly spewing incorrect stuff like "RSA is unbreakable because it's NP-complete", "Godel incompleteness theorem means you can't know nothing", and "quantum computers are going to revolutionize computing because it's trinary logic and we're going to need to replace our binary based programming languages". And they're also the ones that keep repeating the mantra that CS is "a superset of math", "does everything a 4 year math degree does", and "responsible for all modern technology" and they get unbelievably upset when they are called out on it.
>>7910201
>No bullshit that never gets used in a normal job
>No bullshit that no one ever gets to work in unless they have a PhD in CS anyways
Don't worry. I 100% believe you that your friend's friend's friend graduated with a CS degree and immediately went to microsoft and made windows 10, then went to google and developed deepmind, then went to NASA and made the software for one of the satellites so that it can detect dark matter and then went on to create the newest database engine that is now the internet standard.
I totally 100% believe you!
So yeah, I disregard all of your bullshit and now clarify even more:
If you have a degree in Math, Physics or Engineering then read about the 3 topics I mentioned and then you are certified to get any industry job a CS graduate could get and also many other 'Computational Science' jobs, but this is mainly because of your non-CS background.
But I still believe you! CS undergrads do definitely work in those fields!
>>7910253
>"a superset of math"
Just about a week ago one of these spergs came and made a thread about this.
For fucks sake I thought that I had by mistake gotten into one of /b/'s cringe threads.
>>7910258
Wow, nice arguments man, you totally shown him!
>>7910301
Show me any entry level up to 3 year experience jobs that require any """advanced""" CS and I will swallow my words.
CS jobs will need you to know the programming languages and technologies the company uses and to understand growth rates and optimizations. That is all.
There may be a research side of this industry that does require heavy knowledge of the things he mentioned but as I said these will usually ask for a masters or PhD in Computer Science, which is where these topics actually get talked about.
And by the way, whatever you did with artificial intelligence in your undergrad CS will get laughed off to space by a Doctor of Computer Science who has done actual work in the field. It does not compare.
A CS undergrad degree are three main topcis (the ones I mentioned) plus a lot of literally useless filler.
Congratulations.
>>7910216
>probability (using calculus)
There's probability books that don't?
>>7910310
>Show me any entry level up to 3 year experience jobs that require any """advanced""" CS and I will swallow my words.
What does this have to do anything with the topic at all? But since you ask, university professor.
>CS jobs
I think you mean code monkey jobs.
>>7910325
>university professor.
>entry level
>3 years experience
For fucks sake. A pre-requisite of being a professor is having a PhD. PhDs take in average 5 to 8 years.
Are you literally retarded?
>I think you mean code monkey jobs.
Well, that's what they are. No CS undergrad is qualified to perform any kind of meaningful research, for the reasons I have already stated.
Undergrad-tier (INSERT CS TOPIC) != (INSERT CS TOPIC)
>>7910336
Again, what does this has to do with the topic at all?
>>7910336
>PhDs take in average 5 to 8 years
What the fuck are you talking about? 3-4 years.
>>7910314
yeah, there's three tiers of probability
naive, theory-less probability that is done in highschool without calculus. think "choosing balls" experiments
calculus-based probability where distributions are introduced and random variables are used but not defined
analysis-based probability which is a rigorous treatment of measure theory of total measure 1
>>7910349
>Earning a Ph.D., regardless of the subject of study, requires a set of tasks that typically take 5-6 years to complete.
http://study.com/how_long_does_it_take_to_get_a_phd.html
You think it takes 3 years to catch up to the field to the point that you are able to come up with knowledge that has never been explored before? Shit.
I think you are definitely overvaluing the extend of an undergrad degree. Regardless of the field, an undergrad degree is just scratching the surface however, most jobs only need that.
>>7910346
I am just proving my point that studying programming, data structures and algorithms is more than enough to qualify yourself as a computer scientist and get a comfy job in the field.
>inb4 then you are not a real computer scientist!
Well, you aren't a real scientist at all so...
>>7910314
>There's probability books that don't?
The ones cs majors use only need grade school algebra:
http://www2.fiit.stuba.sk/~kvasnicka/Mathematics%20for%20Informatics/Rosen_Discrete_Mathematics_and_Its_Applications_7th_Edition.pdf
>>7910358
>the second part
Nice backpedalling, faggot.
>Earning a Ph.D., regardless of the subject of study, requires a set of tasks that typically take 5-6 years to complete.
First time I hear such a wild claim.
>>7910376
>First time I hear such a wild claim.
I believe you don't have a PhD. I don't either but just saying.
Plus don't forget the standard 2 to 7 years you will have to spend as a postdoc to even attempto to get a teaching position.
>>7910201
What do you think of the courses at Coventry and York?
http://www.coventry.ac.uk/course-structure/engineering-environment-and-computing/undergraduate-degree/2016-17/computer-science-bsc-hons/ (not much detail, under "What you will learn" heading)
and https://www.cs.york.ac.uk/undergraduate/ug-courses/bsc-cs/#course-content (under "Course Content")
>>7910384
>2 to 7 years
Varies wildly depending on area. Some areas you'll be waiting 20-30 years before you have a chance of getting tenure.
>>7910384
>I believe you don't have a PhD. I don't either but just saying.
No, I do not, but does this mean anything?
Here you go https://www.findaphd.com/advice/finding/phd-faqs.aspx, https://www.findaphd.com/study-abroad/europe/phd-study-in-germany.aspx
>In the UK most PhD programmes last for three years
In germany it is 3-4 years, same for other European countries.
>>7910405
Fair enough but I think that just means it takes 3 years to take all the mandatory classes. I'm sure most of the people stay in academic limbo as they try to push a shitty paper as their thesis and their advisor keeps telling them to do something else/better.
But assuming I'm wrong. You got your PhD and now what? You are now the last person in line for the next open full time professor position. Good luck getting that before your 10th postdoc.
So no, a professor is not a 3 year experience position. However, you can teach at a community college with only a bachelors I believe. That's something.
>>7910349
Actual PhD student here. The other guy is right, at least for Americans. In Europe you get your master's first, so the PhD program won't require any classes, which shaves off a couple of years. To be a professor takes 5+ years of grad school and two or three postdocs. It couldn't be less entry level.
>>7909306
I'm president of Linux Club because I like Linux. We happen to have pizza in the school budget once a month. So the treasurer and everyone else only talk about that. I'm seriously considering quitting it.
>>7909306
Why do colleges lump CS together with the Biology and Medical students? I might be able to understand being in the same group as math and engineering but the sciences seem so glued into one STEM classification if only for ease of dorm management.
>>7911405
Because they both suck at math take the same remedial (pre)calculus/physics courses freshman year.
>>7909742
High school fag plz leave
