So /sci/...
Relativity, and the fact that objects in motion stay in motion, imply B. Because, if you ignore the left side, you've got the top 99% of a cube crossing the blue portal at sanic speed. You'd expect it to keep going at sanic speed.
However, this results in the cube picking up speed & energy from crossing the portal synapse, and people don't like the cube getting speed because the world around it is moving at two different speeds, since that's not what would happen with a hula hoop*, and these people would pick A.
>>7876747
Relativity still won't allow for the cube to fly out. The portal has no membrane, it's just a hole. It's a no matter how you look at it. Unless you want to make up your own laws of physics
>>7876754
Yes it would, it's like a wormhole which implies B.
>>7876773
It's not a wormhole you fucking retard.
>>7876747
>This fucking question a-fucking-gain
There's too much unknown about the physics of how they work (in the game that is, irl they wouldn't work at all). Moreover if they did work then there's clearly a nontrivial spacetime here, so standard conservation laws are going to be useless.
I seriously question the IQ of A believers.
>>7876891
>>7876895
>Oh, using the cube doesn't result in A, better deviate from the picture by using a player and then claim the cube works like that
>>7876907
Using multiple cubes results in A, but a single one just bugs out and doesn't go through the portal.
What the fuck is the difference between a cube and a person anyway, the principle of you being a retard doesn't change.
>>7876920
There is a difference in-game since the player doesn't have a rigid body.
The physics are applied differently on the cube and the player, anon.
>>7876920
>What the fuck is the difference between a cube and a person anyway
One is a physical rigid object, the other is a stiff always-vertical collision box that doesn't follow the basic laws of physics. Did your damaged mind get this?
>>7876895
>all that to demonstrate a bug
>>7876944
So it's B then.
Momentum is relative, the cube is actually swiftly orbiting the Milky Way, but it's idle from our perspective, and perspective matters.
When will self energy sufficiency be created?
>>7876954
It cannot possibly be B. If the conditions assuming B were true, Chell would have just died at the end of Portal 2.
>>7876954
Gibberish
>>7876962
How so?
She exits the portal the same speed as she enters it.
>>7876969
Because the surface she's entering from (The Earth), and the surface she's exiting on (The moon) are traveling through space at massively different speeds.
If the conditions of B were true, namely that the movement of the surface either portal is affixed to matters at all, Wheatley and Chell would've been sent spiraling off into space at tens of thousands of miles per hour in a B scenario
Instead an A scenario happened, and they passed through the portal regardless of each point's relativistic speed.
>>7876959
>What is N3L
>>7876985
No, you've got it wrong. The B scenario is that momentum relative to the first portal is conserved relative to the second portal when you exit. If the portal comes down on you fast, you will have high momentum relative to that one, and shoot out the second one in the opposite direction. With the first on the earth and the second on the moon, just jumping in softly would mean you have very low momentum in relation to the second one when you leave, regardless of the difference between the velocities of the portals
>>7876985
No they wouldn't. B implies that the speed of the portal heading towards the cube is equivalent to the speed the cube will exit the portal. There is no such thing occurring in the Portal 2 ending.
>>7877008
That doesn't make any sense, there is zero reason why the momentum of the portal should affect the movement of the cube whatsoever. It's not like a wormhole or stargate where you you cross over into a tunnel or are otherwise acted upon by the physics of the portal itself, in Portal it's basically just a magic hole that connects two points, the space between entry and exit doesn't exist.
>>7877040
/thread
The only people that believe in b have never seen physics outside of a text book and have no intuition.
>>7877048
But with intuition, you wouldn't need more than a text book.
Are you claiming what you have analyzed with experience is where the truth is? That is the opposite of intuition, fool.
>>7877040
a magic hole that is moving rapidly, while the cube is staying still
How does the cube shoot out of B then instantly stop?
>>7877076
B doesn't happen, A does.
Regardless of how fast the orange portal falls on the cube, the cube just ends up on the blue portal's slope, and slides to the ground.
>>7877067
Everyone has an intuition for physics. For most people, it's based on everyday scenarios. Those people will say a.
People who studied physics have a different intuition, but much of it is based on miguided context or failed understanding
>>7877079
You are sadly mistaken.
Try to read and understand every post explaining relativity. Thinking everything has an absolute momentum is a portrayal that works in practice, but it is not accurate.
>>7877093
Maybe you should try to understand that the portal is just a fucking hula hoop anon.
>>7877093
That's true but the only frame that the cube has momentum is the frame where you look in the Blue portal, which isn't a frame at all
>>7877101
False analogy. When both portals move together, the momentum is maintained in the portal. One has to remain static in the world to launch the cube.
>>7877112
But that's just wrong. The cube would not be launched regardless of either portal's position or movement, only it's own momentum matters and the portal doesn't affect that whatsoever.
>>7877122
Your conclusion is right, but your reasoning isn't well thought out. Try thinking it through next time
Have the descending portal stop half way on the cube.
Half of the cube will be sticking out of the blue portal.
Repeat this experiment multiple times, descend further each time. It will stick out more and more each time.
When you fully descend upon the cube, it will... plop. A
>>7877127
We already went over all of this in the /v/ thread hours ago.
>>>/v/328309405
>>7877122
>Only its own momentum matters
This is what you fail to understand. You are stuck with the belief that objects have the fundamental property of momentum. Mathematically, you can say the cube doesn't actually move, but it's the world around it that moves, making the cube appear as if it was launched. It may seem absurd, but looking at it this way means the cube has no momentum, while still being B.
I have to assume that A-fags are mostly trolls, just like the flat earthers.
>>7877129
It is the same thing to say that the cube stopped several times.
>>7877149
Oh wow, thanks for the explanation, that clears it up. I originally thought it was A, but with this info, it is most certainly B.
>>7877157
Huh?
So the rules magically change when the cube has fully crossed into the second frame?
>>7877148
Speedy thing goes in.
Speedy thing goes out.
That is the entirety of Portal's portal physics. The cube itself ain't speedy, so it don't come out speedy. This shit is magic that literally runs on moon dust, that's all there is to it.
>>7877175
Who are you addressing this question to?
>>7877179
>The cube itself ain't speedy
Yes it is. It enters the orange portal at high speed.
>>7877179
Yes.
Going through a portal.
1. Changes your postion
2. Changes the angle of your movement vector but not its magnitude.
>>7877183
No it doesn't.Technically it's not entering the orange portal or exiting the blue portal, it simply goes from sitting on it's base to being on the slope.
>>7877129
How do B believers address this?
>>7877186
>if the descending orange portal stops halfway, there must be some counter force applied to the cube in the blue frame of reference to keep it from continuing to shoot out.
Yes, that's correct. If the piston came to a stop halfway down, the front of the cube would try to pull the back of the cube through the rest of the way. Conservation of momentum demands that.
>>7877199
>the front of the cube would try to pull the back of the cube through the rest of the way
>pull
And thats where everything breaks down.
>>7877149
This isn't how portals work in either game though.
I posted a screenshot from portal 1 where you see that portals don't transform objects, they duplicate them.
Okay, so judging form this thread, I can make a rock fly at high speeds by putting it on the ground and slamming a bracelet over it. This should cause the rock to go flying into the air at the same speed as the bracelet because the rock is taking the momentum of the bracelet. Thanks /sci/, i'm going to go make a large steel hoop and shoot it at a a tree so I can watch the tree fly into orbit.
>>7877194
>it's not entering the orange portal or exiting the blue portal
Uh, yes it is.
>>7877200
What's wrong with that?
>>7877201
Yes and that's why the scenario can't happen in game. But the limitation on the game engine doesn't invalidate the thought experiment.
>>7877149
Also, this image just shows that a fast moving portal would cause the block to be transformed from one location to the other faster. It says nothing about the speed of the block relative to any frame
>>7877206
Because this is adding acceleration to the cube.
By this explanation, if even a single atom of the cube touches the portal, the entire cube will get sucked into the portal and shoot out everytime.
>>7877129
>>7877210
>transformed from one location to the other faster.
What do you think that means if not speed? We're talking about the magnitude of change in position with respect to time. That's speed.
>>7877215
>Because this is adding acceleration to the cube.
No it isn't. The cube is ALREADY moving relative to the portal.
>By this explanation, if even a single atom of the cube touches the portal, the entire cube will get sucked into the portal and shoot out everytime.
No it won't. It will only have the momentum proportional to the amount that has passed through before the portal stops moving. e.g. if the piston came to a sudden stop halfway down, the block will be reduced to half speed.
>>7877228
You think if the piston stop half way, the block will still go through?
So from the perspective of the piston portal, the cube will appear to be sucked up through the portal.
At this point you are just rewriting the rules of the portals.
>>7877221
When the block enters the portal and exits, it hasn't actually traveled any distance. Therfore it's speed is always 0
>>7877129
I was B, now I'm A.
I made a poll at my school when I first saw this a few years ago.
>>7877234
>You think if the piston stop half way, the block will still go through?
Well it depends on how fast the piston was moving, but yes, it could.
>So from the perspective of the piston portal, the cube will appear to be sucked up through the portal.
Yup.
>At this point you are just rewriting the rules of the portals.
I'm not. The fact that portals can a) move relative to one another and b) accelerate relative to one another makes that expanded scenario different than the game, but entirely self-consistent.
It's probably better to get a firm grasp on the OP scenario before you start complicating it, though.
>>7877252
must suck to to go a community college
>>7877262
>>So from the perspective of the piston portal, the cube will appear to be sucked up through the portal.
>
>Yup.
This is inconsistent with the behavior in the game, even allowing for the extensions which allow this experiment in the first place
>>7877235
>When the block enters the portal and exits, it hasn't actually traveled any distance.
Yes it has. The cube doesn't just blink into existence, it passes through continuously. The front emerges first, then the middle, then the back, etc. And clearly the front is moving forward, yes?
>>7877264
It was pretty embarrassing that physics students weren't 100% B, but it did include freshmen who hadn't been weeded out yet.
>>7877268
>This is inconsistent with the behavior in the game
What do you think contradicts it?
>>7876944
But portals aren't even theoretically possible, so using irl physics is just stupid.
You can only either way rely on computer-calculated physics because you can't prove anything anywhere other than in-game or theoretical pseudo-physics.
It all comes down to the way the engine handles it by calculations, so it might be either until someone actually tries it and sees if either behavior sticks.
>>7877270
No, that's just how you think it works.
Portals in game work more like star trek teleportation. You can clearly see in game that the object is duplicated as it passes through
>>7877291
But that's just the thing. You don't actually need to know how the portals work, since the question is dealing with what happens AFTER the cube has passed through. Namely, whether something that is moving fast will continue to move fast in the absence of interference. We know that it will, therefore the answer has to be B. Whether the game glitches when you try to simulate it is irrelevant.
>>7877296
So it's impossible to stand halfway through a portal in game?
Portals already can be used to generate infinite energy so they clearly violate many principles of physics already.
>>7877312
The game only acts the way it does with portals because they're not even portals per se. They're two flat textures that have a camera pointing forward from the other portal vice versa.
It's advanced gimmickery, but by no means new. It's done by manipulating all kinds of things, so it really doesn't even come down to science. It's just optical illusions and duplicate player models.
>>7877337
Ok, but the question is assuming they ARE portals.
>>7877313
Yup. If you try, you'll actually just get in between the two cameras that projects either side of the portals to the other.
It's basically just splitting your screen from the middle to two.
>>7877344
What IS a portal, exactly?
If we don't know, the only way to understand is to see how they work in-game, because they're clearly make-belief.
>>7877351
>What IS a portal, exactly?
It's a plane that exists simultaneously at two points in spacetime.
>>7877362
Great. So it's a spot that shares two XYZ coordinates. So basically, in all purposes it's a hole in a wall. The hole in the wall can be considered a portal since it has two exit points in one xyz coordinate, just like the portal.
What happens if a hole drops on you?
Nothing. In case of portals, you're not launching forward and gravity does pull you down through the portal you went through initially, anyways.
It's A, because Portals work like holes in a wall, with two exit points on one coordinate.
>>7877378
Yep.
An alternative way to explain it, is from the orange portals rest frame, the cube and the blue portal are moving at the same speed, so the block will not move relative to the blue.
>>7877378
>What happens if a hole drops on you?
You enter the hole and exit it at the same speed, therefore B.
>>7877395
The speed of the transformation between coordinates is not the same as the speed of the object before or after it exits. It's not hard to understand
>>7877399
>exit it at the same speed
You mean A then.
>>7877409
No I mean B, of course. It exits the blue portal at the same rate it enters the orange portal. Just like you exit the "hole" at the same rate you enter the "hole." This HAS to be true, or else you will either be duplicated (exiting faster) or cease to exist (entering faster). The difference in THIS scenario is that the exit and the entrance have nonzero relative velocity.
Wouldn't a real life portal, if it were possible, twist and devastate the earth's gravity, since it's basically duplicating it, just through a small hole?
I mean, I don't know I'm no scientist or anything, but I don't think it would be a good idea to create any kind of space-warping doorway on earth.
>>7877416
Pretty sure he's trolling to derail the thread
>>7877419
That's a good point. Can gravitons pass through a portal? It seems like everything else can.
>>7877437
What if portals draw energy somehow, depending and what goes through them?
