Anyone else here disillusioned with STEM?
>Maths/Physics
Academia is a brutal pecking order and autistic as fuck, finance is soulless.
>Engineering
Chemical is Big Oil evil, Aerospace is half military evil, half work you to death at SpaceX
>Computer science/software engineering
Even more autistic than science, sit in front of a computer all day
I wish I was like my friend who is good at music. He goes to gigs, releases studio albums, has a laugh on the radio, much less stress and posturing.
>half work you to death at SpaceX
Sounds like this guy is lacking the Startup Mentality ®
>>7876459
They've been a startup for a while.
>>7876448
>finance is soulless
And yet you make bank, from that you can live a relatively comfortable and secure life. Now contrast with your friend, it's likely that he lives hand-to-mouth and probably worries about missing his next rent payment (even if he doesn't look it), moreover he'll probably never make it big so he'll probably hit his mid-thirties with very little to show for it and very few prospects.
You've got to remember that most jobs suck, the point is to get a job that allows you to live comfortably.
>>7876448
> sit in front of a computer all day
This is living the dream though.
>>7876500
No that is how people end up having mid-life crises. He is happy and that is what matters. You only get a few decades on of life, is it worth it to spend it holed up in some office for most of the day? Money? You can live comfy on minimum wage, It is society telling you you must buy all sorts of bullshit and provide for wife and kids just to keep the wheels of capitalism turning. When I was in school it was drummed in to me that I should be a doctor just because I was smart. I didn't do it and even though I'm poor today I don't look back at all. Doctors are rioting in my country at the shit working hours.
>>7876504
Enjoy your back pain and eye fatigue.
>>7876508
>He is happy and that is what matters.
Hahahahaha! Holy fuck no, what makes you happy today won't make you happy in a decade from now. As it is what makes you happy right now might be going out, drinking, partying and indiscriminate Sexual encounters. Will that always make you happy? Likely not, by the time you hit your thirties you'll want to settle down and start a family, with a good career you'll have that option. I work for a company doing data analysis, our clientèle is mainly banks, I earn 35K a year (which is a fair amount in Britain) and I've only just started. Do I still enjoy my life? You bet, next month I'm going on a month long trip Around central and Eastern Europe.
>You can live comfy on minimum wage
Not really, you can survive on minimum wage, but I wouldn't call it living.
>>7876448
>much less stress and posturing.
He also has to spend his time grovelling and begging to get anywhere in the first place. He's just the type of person to not admit that.
The grass is always greener.
I'm a professional surfer and male model, earning extra bucks showing off my model gf making hedonistic lifestyle videos.
Tbqh it all doesn't matter, really I dream of pushing the field of Differential Galois Theory.
PS: Rate Comment Subscribe
https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=uOHDkIxyu2A
>>7876553
You have a natural drive to want to reproduce, if you don't feel it right now then you will in a few years.
>>7876523
Nobody cares about how much money you make. Some people honestly would rather make less money than have a job they perceive as soul sucking.
>>7876590
Then those people are retarded.
>>7876594
>people who want different things from life than me are retarded
You've got it all figured out.
>>7876593
>People aren't animals
>People don't have a natural drive to reproduce
>Women becoming "broody" is another lie of the patriarchy
>There are no hormonal changes in people as they age
You're an idiot.
>>7876594
>all that matters is money and status!
You're the real loser here, too scared to do what he really loves because you're scared that you can't afford the latest Mercedes.
>>7876595
Not even close. The fact is we live in a world where you need money to get by, the more you have the easier it is to get by. People who sacrifice long term safety and security for some short term happiness is a hedonistic retard.
>>7876448
CS barely involves sitting in front of a computer
>>7876601
>What's that youre taking the long view of your life?
>You want to earn enough to live comfortably and enjoy your life
>Wow what a loser
>>7876603
>some short term happiness
Do you understand what a career is? You spend almost your whole life in it. There's a middle ground between high paying job I hate and turning tricks so I can buy dinner from a vending machine.
>>7876448
>Startup Mentality ®
>>7876448
>Academia is a brutal pecking order
It's much worse than that. It's basically slave labour because many "students" work unethical hours under academics who do not impart any transferable skills.
Also, there are too many PhD students being trained than needed who just add to the labour surplus dragging in more requirements to be hired.
>>7876612
>You spend almost your whole life in it.
You'll spend almost your whole life at what ever job you end up doing. That's just a simple fact. I'd sooner get paid more now, be able to enjoy my life more now as a result and be able to put more away to save for my old age.
You know that you can have a high flying job and a life outside of work, right? Have you even been employed or are you getting your ideas on what a career is from Hollywood films?
>>7876594
Wow, anon. I guess, that's not an uncommon opinion
>>7876609
>You need to bust your ass in maths class for years to live comfortably
>You need to work a 12 hour a day finance job just to live comfortably
The world is cucked, everyone is told they need to get a job in STEM, law or economics or you're wasting your life. you don't NEED a £50,000 salary, you WANT it. I'm happy with 30k if it means I don't have to spend my entire fucking life wrapped up in my work.
>>7876625
Yes, I worked as a programmer briefly. But between the long commutes and things I had to do after work, there really wasn't much time to do the things I wanted outside of work.
>You'll spend almost your whole life at what ever job you end up doing.
Yes, that's the point. If you can do something that makes you happy for somewhat less money, I'd say go for it. You're really overestimating how much money it takes to live comfortably.
>>7876625
>You know that you can have a high flying job and a life outside of work, right?
Some fantasy there senpai
>>7876639
>You're really overestimating how much money it takes to live comfortably.
Exactly my point.
>>7876638
>You need to work a 12 hour a day finance job just to live comfortably
Biggest meme going, I work a standard 9-5, occasionally doing some work at home when I don't finish it during the day (if I'm worried I won't makes a deadline)
>>7876639
>and things I had to do after work
Sounds like you had a shitty work ethic, desu, companies want results if you don't deliver them when you're in the office of course you're going to have to work at home. I think this is the crux of the issue, you're entitled. You want a job that leads to a good life, you want happiness and you want security. But you don't think you should have to work for it.
>If you can do something that makes you happy
If you surveyed the whole working population you'd find almost 100% of people hate their job, conclusion:
>There are, effectively, no jobs that people are happy with in the long term
>You're really overestimating how much money it takes to live comfortably.
I'm really not. My parents my (collectively) ~50K before tax and they struggled to get by. I really don't believe you when you say you've been employed and come out with star men's like that, unless you had no overheads then you'd quickly realise how hard it is to scrape by on minimum wage.
>>7876671
>>Sounds like you had a shitty work ethic, desu, companies want results if you don't deliver them when you're in the office of course you're going to have to work at home
I meant like cooking, cleaning, and grocery shopping and shit. My actual work was too easy, and I was constantly finishing it and being left to do other's work.
I make much less money now as a grad student, but I'm pretty happy with it.
>>7876678
So cooking and cleaning took up so much time that you had no time for anything else? Well I guess its a shame you didn't make more money then you could have hired a maid and then you'd have much more free time.
>>7876671
>Say work is taking over your life
>"You just have a shitty work ethic"
Definition of a toxic environment.
>>7876703
>It's toxic to expect people to do what they've been employed to do.
Let's face it, if you can do the job competently then it won't take over your life.
>>7876714
>competently
must be some MEME buzzword
>>7876671
(Also directed to your previous posts)
I'm not one to say how you should get by in your life or anything, but I just want to highlight what this guy says >>7876678
>I make much less money now as a grad student, but I'm pretty happy with it.
and that you're heading straight into an early midlife crisis... textbook case. I've talked to many people like you who chose to put money and comfortable life from the beginning of their careers and ended up depressed as the years went on, feeling like they never did anything worthwhile in the soul-sucking jobs they did. I know people right now that work as investment bankers, make a shit ton of money, work 16-hour days (yes work all those hours, same mentality except taken to the extreme) and are completely running on anti depressants, all because they want more money and a more comfortable life... it's a noble gesture for their future selves and family but it will be too late for themselves. Think of the consequences and whether you want to go down that route for the future.
On another note, let's hope AI replaces enough jobs in the future so citizens are given a basic income without having to work... maybe people will get happier on average then. Maybe.
>>7876729
The best part is the more you earn the more you "need". Earn more money, buy a better car, it breaks down and parts are more expensive. Move to better area, have to pay more council tax, all the local kids are in public school therefore you pay to send your kids to one as well. This is why the middle class are the ones always complaining about being "squeezed", they keep trying to keep up with the Joneses
ITT:
>Too many butthurt who tell others ow to live live and "objectively" tells what a good life is about.
>>7876729
>and that you're heading straight into an early midlife crisis... textbook case.
>hurr durr life crisis
Opinion discarded, you've never met me, you've no idea what my life is like.
>I've talked to many people like you
I doubt it, mainly because I doubt you talk to other people at all.
>On another note, let's hope AI
Kek.
>>7876729
>I know people right now that work as investment bankers,
Oh yeah, well I know former grad students right now, that never took a job because they found it "soulless", the majority of them had to move back in with their parents because they can afford to get on the property ladder, they're all on antidepressants as well.
>>7876768
The point is that you said only a retard wouldn't take the highest paying job available, and everyone is trying to show you that's wrong. You're moving goalposts now.
>>7876448
>stress and posturing.
If you had any measure of talent you wouldn't have those.
STEM only sucks for tryhards and exambabbies, it's a great career for people who are actually intelligent enough to be there.
>>7876788
>you said only a retard wouldn't take the highest paying job available
>Further proof that /sci/ is 90% retard
Wrong, I said that someone who prioritised short term happiness over long term happiness and security is a retard. I went on to say that in the present world that would entail taking a high paying job, even if such a job is 'soulless'. Of course this is a completely sensible statement, yet I forgot about the shear number of Euphoric cunts on here.
>>7876803
>spending a 3rd of your waking life in a job you don't like or care about
>assuming you work 8 hrs/day, not taking the time it takes to get to your workplace into account
>probably spend the rest of your work days sitting in front of a TV/computer to relax for the next work day
>with the prospect to keep doing this for multiple decades
>long term happiness
>>7876814
>He thinks he'll get a job he'll enjoy
Kek. Something like 13% of people, world wide, like going to work. I know they you're only an undergrad that hadn't worked a day in his life, but believe me when I tell you that even "interesting" professions eventually lead to tedium, and familiarity breads contempt. As it stands you'll almost certainly end as part of that 87% that hates their job.
>Able to travel
>Able to provide for myself and my family
>Have an active social life
>Able to do, effectively, whatever I want
>Able to fund my retirement
>Not long term happiness
>>7876803
>Some people honestly would rather make less money than have a job they perceive as soul sucking.
>Then those people are retarded.
>>7876759
>Opinion discarded, you've never met me, you've no idea what my life is like.
Which is why I said
>I'm not one to say how you should get by in your life or anything
I was just giving you advice based on OBSERVATION, I told you to CONSIDER something, doesn't mean it will 100% apply to you, nor was I expecting it to apply to your life, I just said it was likely, and I highlighted that. I may have come a bit strong on my view in my past, but that's just to get you to think about it. I don't presume to know your past experiences that led you to have your own views.
>I doubt it, mainly because I doubt you talk to other people at all.
Way to go on not assuming you know what my life is like, just like you wrongly accused me of doing.
>>7876768
This is also true, and can be true for any career path. The point was to highlight that many people who get a steady "comfy" career from the beginning are likely to end up depressed (NOT always). That doesn't mean that grad school is the best choice for everyone, but it stands as a symbol for choosing something you like more for less pay, like in the situation of the guy who posted this >>7876678
(key word: INDIVIDUAL case)
>>7876833
>Some people prioritise the short term over the long term
>These people are not retarded
Sure thing buddy.
>>7876848
>making a decision about a career I will spend ~40 years in
>decide not to try not to be miserable halfway through
>prioritizing short term
I think you're misunderstanding what others are saying.
>>7876848
Not the guy you were talking to, but the problem with the short-term vs long-term satisfaction is that with long-term happiness, it's much more difficult to predict whether the things you are doing now will be appreciated by your future self as much as you are thinking at this moment. You may not be the same person, you can't predict how you will change (or not change, depending on the case). Short-term happiness though, you can be positive that you will get satisfaction from it since you will not change substantially from the point you decide to do what you expect will grant you happiness until you do it.
living a satisfying life(jobs included) is subjective.
>>7876866
thank you for the only reasonable thing I've read on 4chan in the past month.
>>7876798
This anon is right.
You're all a bunch of sheeps and pussies
>>7876803
>short term happiness is retarded
Bet you would wish you prioritized short term happiness when you get diagnosed with a brain tumour and all your "long term" plans go out the window. Live every day like it is your last.
>>7877534
shut the fuck up you facebook moron
>Live every day like it is your last.
>take out massive loan and blow it on prozzies
>two weeks later still alive but bankrupt
you didn't do that? then you're not following your own dumb advice you walking meme
>>7877544
Strawman. No-one said go insane, don't spend years suffering in a shit job on the assumption that you will live to see retirement.
>>7876500
You're a fuckin idiot desu
>>7876448
i got my degree in mechanical engineering, but i just work at a machine shop. industry is gay, i'd rather just make shit all day.
>>7877821
I graduated with a degree in Mech Engineering hoping to do cool shit like Tony Stark, but instead I just help design bicycles. Honestly, not what I was expecting at all.
>>7877903
well at least you're involved in the design process.
>>7877903
>>7877821
I made a thread on /diy/ saying I was seriously considering doing Industrial Design instead of MechE because of this. I am one of those people who would rather design a flying toothbrush than repair a jet engine, at least the former is inventive.
>>7877903
This, you're actually lucky that you even got to design something after graduation. MechE grads I know monitor water flow or grease diesel engines.
>>7876448
at this point I'm more interested in avoiding the prospect of living on the streets, apparently there is a such thing as being overqualified , no company wants to hire a janitor with an EE degree, for positions like that the degree is actual detrimental so I figured I got to hide that for now, though then I have to explain a 4 year gap...
>>7876448
>disillusioned
>academia is hard!
kek, that's more of an incentive for me.
>>7879355
You usually need a masters in engineering to design things these days. But if you want to be a project manager and design like engineer in the past you need the masters, FE, and P.Eng. That will take you at least 15 years. Most Mech E are just glorified repairmen for water and diesel engines. EE are just super AutoCAD scrubs. Chem E make sure the oil flow or equations are correct. BS in engineering doesn't give you a job in designing. Something small like bikes or desk are okay but the big things require graduate degrees.
>>7879487
>EE are just super AutoCAD scrubs.
I thought AutoCAD was an ME thing.
>>7879487
thats why I just design things on my own free time.
>>7876448
Military is fun though blow shit up
>>7879648
this
>>7879674
Yup that's why most people end up in sales, finance, marketing, and communications. A lot of engineers just become technical salesperson. More money and less hours I believe.
>Falling for the big oil meme
Chemical engineering master race here. You can do so much else.
I'm laughing my ass off at my friends who went all in for petrol, while I'm riding high on semiconductor processing.
>>7879719
Most Chem E can get jobs in big oil or petrochemical companies. A lot of these engineers go to school in the mid-west or the south where only two industries are prevalent to Chem Eng. In the west you have tech companies where you need some Chemical engineers for processing wafers chips.
>>7879702
well seeing as I find finance to be soul-sucking I guess its art school for me. Pray for me guys.
>CE
welcome to IT
>EE
you are now a glorified electrician
>ME
Rig pig with slightly higher pay
>ChemE
Tube engineer
>Everything-elseE
useless
>>7879759
You'll like marketing or communications. More girls than guys and since you're a guy you'll get promoted faster.
>>7879762
>>CE
>welcome to IT
This fucking hurts. Its too close to home. Some of the sysadmins are CE grads but they have to compete with the /g/ retards who taught themselves computers.
>>7876448
>all jobs are fundamentally terrible!
https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=nvvN9tCtC10
>>7876798
So much this.
When people say "STEM is the best" they mean, "STEM is the best for (people like) me" not "STEM is the best for everyone".
