What happems beyond event horizon?
- Home
- Board: /sci/ - Science & Math
- Reading: What happems beyond event horizon?
So event horizon is the point of no return, right? After that event light can't escape. So do we have any way to know what physics are going on beyond that point?
>>7746179
If We can't make any observation then all there is is theoretical math
>>7746179
A singularity of unknowable density. Essentially a massive amount of bosons all occupying the same quantum state with a mass of several suns to several billion suns.
Is there any known limit to how dense a blackhole can get?
>>7746205
The issue with Density is that it is Mass divided by Volume. We know the mass, but the volume is zero because there's no force that can keep the particles apart.
That's why people show a black hole when someone says they divided by zero.
So, theorehically, if we could withness a birth of a black hole and keep track of everything it devours, we could then calculate it's mass and volume? Or would someting be somehow lost along the way?
>>7746233
It doesn't have a volume, by definition.
We can know the mass by how much it effects things near it and the amount it lenses light.
>>7746233
nothing ever falls on the other side of the event horizon from an observer's perspective though
So could the whole universe be swallowed by an insanely massive black hole, given enough time?
>>7746247
No, we've found that after a certain point an ultramassive black hole will emit enough radiation to "blow" matter away from it, thus halting growth. It's possible that some things will still fall into it, but it will then again reach equilibrium.
So if it's in fact emitting radiation, couldn't we then, at least theoretically, get some information out of it?
>>7746262
Not by the screwy means that it releases radiation, no.
Lots of matter and anti-matter.
The good thing is that we will never have to watch you die, and the death would be so quick, and painless.
>>7746298
Fermions cannot exist in there, as they will always have a finite volume due to the pauli exclusion principle. It is only bosons in black holes. So no, no matter or antimatter.
Light can escape. Hawking radiation.
>>7746386
all the geodesics point towards the singularity.
Heres some info from 1976
>>7746411
True, but space time shrinks so far that beyond the event horizons, photons can travel "faster than light" and escape, just like punching through the sound barrier. It then "slows" as it exists. The photon has to be taken in by the black hole because only certain frequency ranges can escape.
Like another anon, its really wacky how hawking radiation exists.
1/8
2/8
3/8
4/8
5/8
>>7746445
Ill fix this one
6/8
7/8
8/8
>>7746445
4/8 fix'd
>>7746455
Which book is that? If you'd be so kind as to share
>>7746478
Oh I didn't see that image.
Thank you.
I thought it was a textbook. I'll probably save your images and look over them at some point, but I'm probably going to sleep now
>>7746478
Have this in return (from >>7746468 >>7746494)
https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=KR3Msi1YeXQ&feature=youtu.be&t=1458
"As far as I am aware, matter is concentrated on the surface of the black hole, at the point where the escape velocity is C, and that no matter is found inside the volume beyond the surface. I was lead to believe this, if I recall correctly, because the equation for the surface area of a black hole correlates to the amount of matter in it, whereas the volume of a black hole doesn't correlate to the amount of matter." - Anon
>>7746179
>So event horizon is the point of no return, right?
Right.
>After that event light can't escape.
Yep
>So do we have any way to know what physics are going on beyond that point?
Nope.
>Does that mean I need to use my imagination here.
Of course
>But what if I'm an autist and don't has any imaginationz?
Double up on the LSD, and free your mind man
>>7747233
>first time lsd
>200+ ug
>thinking about black holes
This is just a mixture to create a bad trip
5d bookshelves
Did you even see interstellar
>>7746252
>after a certain point an ultramassive black hole will emit enough radiation to "blow" matter away from it
[citation needed]
If you meant Hawking radiation, you dun goof'd, it gets weaker as the black hole gets smaller. If not, then I have no idea what you meant.
>>7748399
>gets weaker as the black hole gets smaller
*gets weaker as the black hole gets bigger, I meant.
>>7746184
Fucking this
/thread
/board
/modernphysics
Doesn't the gravity of the black hole become so strong that time slows to a stop past the event horizon? So no events can possibly happen past the horizon?
>>7749073
No, thinks just begin to compress
>>7746179
Does time really slow down in gravity as heavy as that? If it does, perhaps light is escaping, but just very slowly, so slow it renders it undetectable. If it does slow time, then perhaps black holes do spin, but if an outside observer could see them they'd look like they were stationary because of the time dilation. If all this is true then a black hole would remain until the end of universe/heat death or whatever is supposed to happen in say 1000000000x10000000 years or whatever. I guess it would depend on how much time is slowed if that even happens.
>>7746179
>what happens beyond event horizon
If you survive then you will get trapped in this sort of grid. It turns out that the grid is made up of a single wall from a certain location where your offspring spent most of their life. You can, for instance, bang on a particular instance of the wall and it might cause something - a book, for example - to fall off the wall in that time. You might also be able to interact with your offspring by tapping on things in morse code. If your offspring is sufficiently f***able they will understand the code and solve some equations or some such thing and be able to teleport (?) you out of the black hole. You will probably just steal a spaceship and go back to the blackhole anyway, so its all in vain of course.
>>7749398
i dont get this can anyone simply explain it to me please if there is no volume of the black hole cause it has infinite density so if there is no volume how can it spin
>>7750902
That's a good question.
https://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Ring_singularity
>>7746236
Black holes increase in volume; rather, more specifically, the radii of their event horizons expand as mass increases.
>>7750902
Black holes have incredibly small volumes, and to say that black holes have infinite density also implies that they have infinite energy. And we know that's not possible.
Mass is a form of energy and black holes aren't 'infinitesimally' small. It makes more sense thinking of it as 'energy density,' which is obviously finite.
>>7750915
that was pretty intresting mate,thank you for the answer
>>7746301
Look up Neutron stars.
They are stars which have collapsed to the point where Gravity overcomes Electron Degeneracy Pressure (Pauli Exclusion principle for electrons), and the weak force causes the electrons to interact with the protons and leave only Neutrons. The only thing keeping it from becoming a black hole (besides lack of mass) is Neutron Degeneracy Pressure (Pauli exclusion principle for Quarks, essentially).
So, yeah, the Pauli exclusion principle can counteract gravity, create a force of electrons repelling each other, right up until the point that it can't.
>>7748399
not him but its the radiation from the giant and extremely heated accretion disc (or rather cloud at those sizes) that blows other matter away, not Hawking radiation
can't find source atm but I read about it quite recently, its probably new finding
>>7750932
oh a nice answer sir,considering it's density is finite but its still has a pretty massive density right,so the volume should still be low and its gonna be small but how much small are we talking about here is it in micro small or is it visibly small i wonder about that can you give an answer ?
Misner, Thorn, Wheeler, Graviation, first edition:
323.6 THE FATE OF A MAN WHO FALLS INTO THE SINGULARITY AT r = 0
Consider the plight of an experimental astrophysicist who stands on the surface of a freely falling star as it collapses to R = 0.
As the collapse proceeds toward R = 0, the various parts of the astrophysicist's body experience different gravitational forces. His feet, which are on the surface of the star, are attracted toward the star's center by an infinitely mounting gravitational force; while his head, which is farther away, is accelerated doward by a somewhat smaller, though ever rising force. The difference between the two accelrations (tidal force) mounts higher and higher as the collapse proceeds, finally becoming infinite as R reaches zero. The astrophysicist's body, which cannot withstand such extreme forces, suffers unlimited stretching between head and foot as R drops to zero.
But that is not all. Simultaneous with this head-to-foot stretching, the astrophysicist is pulled by the gravitational field into regions of spacetime with ever-decreasing circumferntial area, 4πr^2. In order to accomplish this, tidal gravitational forces must compress the astrophysicist on all sides as they stretch him from head to foot. The circumferential compression is actually more extreme than the longitudinal stretching; so the astrophysicist, in the limit R -> 0, is crushed to zero volume and indefinitely extended length.
>>7746179
Events
>>7746179
You get squeezed on the edge of the black holes matter. A black hole is just matter which satisfies the schwartzschild radius.
But since information cannot be lost, what happens to light and mass when it reaches singularity?
Also, how can anything ever reach a real ''infinity'', I thought that was just a mathematical concept?
>>7751093
so you becom 2D.
Noice
>>7750986
>the radiation from the giant and extremely heated accretion disc
it makes no sense. The bigger the black hole, the weaker the tidal forces near the horizon, so a black hole big enough would be able to easily swallow entire stars without ripping them apart, which, in turn, would lead to a less intense accretion disk.
Hard to argue one way or the other if there is no source, though.
>>7753248
if I knew the answer I wouldn't tell you - I'd publish my paper first and wait for the inevitable Nobel Prize.
Aww, so my thread has been for nothing then.
But can someone still expain this infinity thing? I tought it was just a trick in theorethical mathematics. Definitely not a real number and something you'd find in the nature. Is it just a physics way of saying ''I have no idea what's going on''?
>>7753329
infinity is a concept, not a thing
But do physicists keep refering to it all the time?
why*
>>7747273
>This is just a mixture to create a bad trip
Alternatively, you could toke on the bud, but that would create an ultra harsh bad trip.........
>>7751093
So the astrophysicist would be a supersolid since he has no volume but infinite surface area?
GUESS HOW HAWKINGS SOLVED HIS BLACK HOLE PROBLEM?
http://www.nature.com/news/stephen-hawking-there-are-no-black-holes-1.14583
http://www.newstatesman.com/future-proof/2014/01/stephen-hawking-now-thinks-there-are-no-black-holes
Gravity travels at the speed of light. Then how come gravity can escape a black hole but light cannot? Does gravity in a black hole travel faster than the speed of light?
>>7753248
I believe it is emitted as Hawking Radiation
>>7753950
Excuse me, you seem to be under the impression that that is a very-large scale photo of galactic filaments, when in fact it is a render detail of a brain ----
whoa fuckin miracles
Fun fact: aliens are actually using technology to hide themselves in the apparent black holes and we're being spied on from such a short distance away.
We need to hurry and develop our own firewall to secure ourselves from the threat of aliens stealing our own inventions before it's too late.
doesnt matter because black holes dont exist
