How accurate is Ph.D. comics with respect to actual Ph.D. life? How often does "scooping" happen?
>>7723826
doing a thesis sucks.. you think you are getting paid and that you will revolution science. you wont.
at the end of the first year, you will understand. at the end of the second year, you say ''never again''. at the end of the third, you understand that the writing is a drag and that you should have begun since the first year. you think of quitting.
you do not quit, graduate and then you understand that postdocs are glorified phds and then you have no job if you do not work on a trendy subject,
>>7723826
PhD in Astrophysics here. There's a bit of "lolsotrue" to all PhD Comics.
As your work starts to overlap with other groups, your probability of scoopage increases. I've never been scooped but frankly my work wasn't as high impact as I was hoping. So there's a trade off: 1. work on boring-ish projects no one is doing or cares about or 2. work on interesting things that everyone else is probably trying to solve and risk getting scooped. Find something in between for your graduate work.
>>7723826
https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=gXlfXirQF3A
>>7723832
That sucks dude, good work though.
>>7723865
If you work on the boring basic projects you may notice something useful that no-one else noticed. That's my basement inventor ethos, no point trying to compete with the big boys, look where they aren't looking.
>>7724281
Not much to do with astrophysics.
>>7723829
>postdocs are glorified phds
Postdocs are a consequence of a broken system. Graduate schools, essentially, are not a sufficient filter for the work force. This is in part due to there being so many grad students and the background body of knowledge necessary being so large, slowing down the time to first publication in many fields. Thus, the postdoc system is a further filter and more time to build up a publication history for going after other research positions (national lab, university or industry)
>>7723826
I have been scooped. It sucks, but it is not something that happens all the time and varies widely depending on field. I would imagine, for example, it is lessened in HEP due to every project being the result of massive collaborations between pretty much every group in the world working on the topic the device is meant to be an experimental test for.
>>7723970
It's hard to not love Tom Lehrer
>Dee hasn't been in a comic in forever
>>7724464
I could not help but notice your gif was not optimized anon.
I have optimized your gif.
Your gif is now optimized.
General rule for research, there is always a better funded, better staffed, and better equipped facility. Do not talk about your research openly.
>>7724470
Fuck off.
tfw want a PhD but dunno If I can be arsed
Just wished I could do a physics job without one tbqh
>>7723826
you would not believe how real it is.
>>7724293
Easier said than done. You have to spend years studying your field to understand where the interesting problems are. And even then, your specialty may lead to a dead end.
>>7724281
I can give it a shit, but my own research never really dealt with gravity beyond inverse square laws, relativistic precession. amd various n-body integrators. I took GR in undergrad too, but hell if I remember most of it..
>>7724585
*shot, not shit haha
>>7723826
I guess that depends. I've seen it often enough where a PhD student works one something for a year or two, finally gets the results that are good enough for a publication, and then lolwat someone else just beat him to it.
A PhD is fun if you are smart enough to make the most out of it, but it can be hell on Earth if you can't.
I definitely got a shitload out of it and still have a year left. Travelling, conferences, interesting work, interesting people - it's all good. And then I'm part of this bigger thing and people actually appreciate what you're trying to accomplish, saying: Yeah, about time someone looked into this!
It's not for everyone, though.
>>7723826
Two weeks away from finishing my senior project, my advisor told me that he just peer-reviewed a paper from another lab that would be published in a week that was basically my project but more in-depth. It kind of sucked that any publishable material I had was voided, but at least my findings were validated.
>>7724479
That was an unnecessarily hurtful thing to say
>>7723826
>How accurate is Ph.D. comics with respect to actual Ph.D. life?
PhD in Physics in here: PhD Comics is very accurate and has had arcs that I hoped noone else had experienced. Much is funny now but was not so funny back then.
As for scooping it happens often if you are in high pressure fields such as new fields where everyone can have a good start at the same time. That happened in High Tc superconductivity, Nanotechnology with Fullerenes and nanotechnology with graphene. In these cases much is just a huge and continuous race to publish where people just live in their labs.
>>7724470
Cant tell the difference
>>7724860
thats so fucking terrifying to me.
>>7723826
It's certainly true PhD students get paid very little so unless you are rich you are in for a squalid yet demanding existence which can be soul crushing to some.
I have managed to sort of circumvent that, as some other people do. I did an MSc first and worked very hard at that, then managed to land a three-year Research Assistant position under my MSc advisor straight after graduating.
I was paid slightly less than a postdoc - not a fortune but a decent enough salary, two times what I would get as a PhD student. At the same time I could pursue a PhD "part-time" (though it only took four years in the end) based on the same work I did as a Research Assistant, and seemed to enjoy a somewhat higher status than regular PhD students - many people assumed I was a postdoc.
My advice would be to avoid doing a "plain" PhD without a similar arrangement if at all possible.
t. golden boy
>>7725134
>real job
Burger flipping?
>>7724576
So why do people still do highly sought after topics and risk getting scooped? Shouldn't people just focus on getting their Ph.D., then move on to the more interesting areas where scooping has a less impact on them?
>>7725134
>>Shit like this is why you pursue science as a hobby and work a real job
HAHAHAHAHAHAHAHAHA, no.
While it is still possible to do science as a hobby, it is increasingly difficult to do anything relevant. Science is not done by individuals anymore, it's done by teams.
I'm getting a PhD because, as some claim is the worst reason to do so, I have nothing better to do with my life. I'm at a good school getting paid reasonably so it could be worse. I accept that I'll likely just go on to a postdoc and then my life will meander wherever.
>>7725064
ya, and a smaller file size
Are PhD students just complainers because they lack perspective on working professionally?
Is doing a fully funded PhD really as bad as working? You get to work on interesting research, have a flexible schedule, and avoid being stuck in an office for 9+ hours a day.
I want to get a PhD so I can get more technical and research oriented jobs.
Engineering at the bachelors level isn't that technical.
>>7724860
and he didn't sabotage it for you??? what a dick!
>>7725334
I'm kinda the same.
I got my chem BS and just wnated to get a job, but there aren't any jobs. So I started a PhD. I have interest in the field, but I may or may not have enough interest to sustain me doing a real research project. I don't know yet.
>>7725408
Lab science PhDs are the literal worst. You spend most of your 20s doing menial work that someone else with take credit for and even after you graduate, you'll be spending your years in post-doc hell.
If you're gonna get a PhD, make it a marketable one.
>>7725416
I did my undergrad in environmental engineering which is much more employable an, I also did multiple research internships so I know the struggle from working with grad students for years. I was in the top of my class in my major so my professors were recommending that I go for it.
My job as a consultant is pretty cool now. Long hours but it's satisfying to go out and see your designs being built. But it's missing the technicality that I liked when I was a researcher.
If I go back it would be in computational modeling/hydrodynamics.
>>7725408
doing mine in MechE (computational field) and it's pretty great. Definitely only do it if you want to get into higher level research in industry or academia. I grew to love research from working a couple internships in R&D labs and then got a paid part-time lab gig when I was an undergrad, those were a blast. I got exposed to the kind of work the PhD's got in industry for my field and was hooked.
I'm on an RA now through funding from a company that's working with my lab, so besides taking a class or two here and there it's basically all research all the time. It feels a lot like when I was working in the R&D labs actually, but there's a lot of intellectual freedom and room to try new things.. and then learn from your fuckups so you don't repeat them in the real world. Everyone in my lab is really self-driven and my boss is invested in our work (we run a small tight-knit group, prof is tenured but dedicated), so it's not like anyone is there to dick around and avoid responsibility. We also hold a 100% placement rate for research jobs for our field too so that's also very motivating in itself.
As far as the hours go: I work ~8/9am to ~6/7pm Sun-Fri (~60 hrs/wk), but it's self-imposed so I can get a lot of shit done without things piling up before sponsor/paper deadlines roll in. It doesn't feel like 'work' in the sense that it's engaging, challenging, and I'm seldom bored. I used to paint fences all summer long during my teens, that felt like a true grind.
That said, I imagine it's very easy to hate all of this if you're not interested in your research topic, have an abusive PI, given little direction, stressed from funding concerns, etc. (.. like a lot of grads, be careful where you settle). The hours can be long, but it's necessary if you want to finish in a reasonable amount of time. Combine these and add the 'I'm here because I couldn't get a job' element and you've got a recipe for misery.
>>7723826
Neighboring lab is trying to encroach on specific subjects in two of our grants and they don't even have funding for this.
>>7725786
Sounds pretty awesome. I already work long hours but what bothers me is that the work is pretty boring most of the time. I miss the academic environment and bending over backwards to serve clients gets frustrating.
I wasn't sure of my chances but I reached out to a good professor of mine and she really believed I could get into a good program. Unfortunately I probably missed most deadlines so the earliest I'd be able to do is 2017.
Has anyone else done a separate master's/second PhD while in graduate program that wasn't a dual degree/joint program? I did a completely unrelated minor and want to do a Master's in it part time. I know some schools like Brown have official support for students that do this.
>>7723865
This Anon gets it.
>>7724470
How do you do this? Would you create a thread some time optimizationfag?
>>7725205
>t. golden boy
This. If you're not a golden boy being groomed by a prominent faculty member you will be miserable cannon fodder with zero prospects upon graduation.
You're basically lab/code monkey labour, only cheaper than actual technicians.
First of all scooping does not really matter as long as you are doing a PhD. The purpose of doing a PhD is to learn how to do research, the background knowledge, the "craft" that research is and all the little but still important things that are never written down. Networking is also important.
Scooped means you get to verify or present a different angle. The ugly truth these days is that a lot of published work is not verified and worse, it cannot be verified independently. Questions are continuously raised about how true it is. Scooped then means a whole lot more trust can be put into the field. And you get to know the names that count and get an idea where you could go for post doc.
Scooped is, however, disastrous if you are a post.doc.
>>7725408
>Is doing a fully funded PhD really as bad as working? You get to work on interesting research, have a flexible schedule, and avoid being stuck in an office for 9+ hours a day.
Depending on the lab it's slightly less or more work than a real job -if you're the type who doesn't bring his research home; which no one in grad-school is.
The major difference of course is that you aren't getting paid as if you were working 9+ hours a day.
>Engineering at the bachelors level isn't that technical.
You can still get a research job, I got a job at an R&D lab in my 4th year, my uncle works in defense R&D. PhD is a meme. If you really want one get hired at a lab willing to pay some university to do your PhD through them.
There is zero ceiling in R&D for you, needing a PhD only applies to the sciences.
>>7725415
>I got my chem BS and just wnated to get a job, but there aren't any jobs. So I started a PhD
Problem is, this is what literally everyone did. The market saturation is going to get so much worse, you'll be competing for BS entry level type spots at best.
Should've gotten a non-STEM job to weather the storm, at least you'd have money.
>>7726797
What kind of shitty university are you where you don't need a minimum set amount of publications? Of course getting scooped is disastrous as a PhD, it delays your graduation.
>>7726813
I complete my PhD a long time ago.
A publication is a publication is a publication no matter if someone else got there 2 days before you.
What university requires you to submit only groundbreaking discoveries? Sure, everyone wants a publication in Science, Nature, Phys Rev B etc. but obviously not every PhD student will get one, by a long shot.
>>7726826
Ok, I misunderstood.
What journals do you publish in where they accept articles of research already done? Are you in an experimental field or something?
>>7726813
>minimum set amount of publications
What school has such a ridiculous requirement? The time to publication is fairly variable between fields making such a requirement non-sense.
>>7726854
If the papers are about the same thing and received at about the same time, both will probably get published. One might get published sooner for either political reasons or for having simply having been written better.
>>7726795
>tfw prominent professor took me under her wing in undergrad
I couldn't figure out why I of all people was her golden boy.
>>7726890
She wanted the D.
>>7726854
>What journals do you publish in where they accept articles of research already done?
Note the most prestigious journals it must be admitted. Then again this has been criticized especially since it now appears that too few results are reproducible.
>Are you in an experimental field or something?
I was but left research many years ago. For the same reason I don't have a good overview of journals that will accept scooped findings.
>>7726890
I know that feel. I think it was my good grades and attitude in her classes.
>>7726765
Please respond !
>>7725415
that's how a lot of people end up in phd programs including myself. i have entertained the idea of a phd as early as sophomore year of undergrad, but not getting a job offer sealed the deal.
>>7726803
except the attrition rate in phd programs is high as fuck and what you do is far more niche than as an undergrad where save for internships or undergraduate research (where you didn't learn anything of worth anyway) everyone has the same exact experience.
>>7726058
Whatever you choose to do, make sure it's worth your time in the end and you don't shoot yourself in the foot. I happened to see a disparity in the kind of tasks assigned at different levels when I was getting my feet wet at work, however sometimes you may not need it like this anon >>7726802 mentions. It boils down to the specific type of job you want to go into and what kind of people are in demand for that field, one shoe size does not fit all.
I'd use the time to dig around and find these things out, perhaps you can find more stimulating stuff to do at another workplace. I have a friend who was in some insanely boring shit for a couple years, but recently hopped companies and now they're happy doing more challenging stuff.
>>7726802
>>7727374
That's my biggest concern at the moment. I want to be certain that a PhD is going to be worth it in the end. At the same time I don't see myself sticking around in this type of consulting for too long.
I'm looking at other jobs and I see some interesting ones, but the majority of environmental work seems to be in consulting. Most career paths in consulting place you into management roles which is more client and less research oriented. Certain firms do hire PhD's though (like Geosyntec) that get their hands on the more interesting projects. Looking into smaller and more specialized firms may be a good option too. I'd like to get my hands on a water resources position if possible.
Unfortunately I don't believe there's many R&D oriented jobs in the environmental engineering field outside of academia. I do have two lab RA job and one industry chemical engineering R&D internship so I should be ok in my job search. But the ChemE job market is kinda fucked right now though.
Wish me luck bros
>>7723826
...I'm considering the Maths PhD route, gotta say it doesn't look too promising.
Lets look at the possibilities, say I graduate from my Master's with a 1st class degree and I've either got to choice of going on to a PhD or to take up a job offer that I may have grabbed from an internship.
Say I take up the PhD.
1) If I fail to get funding, I'm fucked.
2) If I don't enjoy research, I'm fucked.
3) If I enjoy and finish the PhD, I'll naturally go onto postdoc work, so now I have to fear the postdoc trap.
4) If after these postdocs, I'm still not good enough for a lecturing position (which may even be luck based, because it's dependant on how good your postdocs were), I'll have to get a different job, probably a graduate one.
5) So say I apply for a graduate job, am I even employable? I fear that a lot of places would just look at my CV, see that I've got a PhD and note that if any opportunity came up for a PhD job, I'd leave them and take it, in short they've got no reason to hire me, I'm basically overqualified.
6) And to top it all off, even if I got a lecturer position it'll be low payed to start with, and combining that with all the years on low pay I've spent in post-doc and the time I spent doing the PhD, I've effectively lost a lot of money (say for example that I've lost 5 years, in that time I could've got promoted in most graduate roles).
In short... I'm struggling to convince myself to do a PhD, even though I love maths,
>>7723826
True or false, in math scoping often leads to collaboration?
>>7729367
>Master's
Why the fuck
Just pull a Newton if you ever get scooped.
>How often does "scooping" happen?
my first project was scooped (same exact results) and then another project recently got "partially" scooped but I'm submitting my paper anyways, we'll see what happens.
actually that shit is fucking horrible and I want to get out of research.
>>7725266
So no idle aristocrat, in his mansion laboratory, would crack atoms to find fascinating things. Depressing.
>>7730074
you need a masters to get into phd programs in Europe
>>7730335
Wow that sucks
Is this Ph.D lifestyle stuff actually true, or is it just young people with little work/life experience, unrealistic expectations, and relatively little oversight getting themselves into bad situations? I've run into some older graduate students who worked, got married, and generally did real life things between undergrad and grad school. Most of them seemed to be avoiding a lot of the issues Ph.D people bring up.
>>7730414
I'm doing the same. I graduated and worked a few years in industry making a high salary. Got a gf, hobbies and did social things in between. Then decided I wanted to switch fields to something more applicable (did pure math) and now going back to school to take pre-req courses (that my company pays for) so that I can get into a PhD program in my new field of interest. I'd say it's working out quite well. I needed the break and it gives me time to self-study on the side so I can catch up with the material before I take a class in it. I needed the break and now feel more refreshed, have industry experience and a better idea of what I want to do win a PhD
PhD life really is hard, crap pay, and in most fields of absolutely no help in getting a job. (Industry often doesn't care and 9 of 10, you will not become a tenured professor)
So why do it? You are rich and love the field. You are foolish and don't know better. You are a foreigner hoping for a green card. Those are the most common reasons.
What should you do once in? As many tiny studies that you can publish as quickly as possible. You need some first author publications with your name on them before you apply for those post docs. (Yes, you'll have to do a post doc too.)
PhD comics is far too true.
>>7730435
Yeah, I'm not sure why more people don't consider this. I'm an undergrad so I don't have the full perspective, but most of my younger TAs seem completely out of it and barely able to handle their schedules. On the other hand, a guy I had who was ~7-8 yrs older than most of them was completely relaxed even in the weeks leading up to his defense and now he's got a research job at a big company in his field.
>>7730593
>PhD comics is far too true.
But which is the most true?
>>7723826
I've heard a lot of negative things about PhDs, so I thought I'd take a poll.
Do you regret doing a PhD?
http://strawpoll.me/6310119
So lab sciences PhDs can be a nightmare. Does someone have experiences with more theoretical fields? I wanted to take a PhD in physical chemistry, computer modelling and I'd like to know if someone had experiences with it.
so what does scooping mean
>>7731565
Someone publishing the same research as you, before you. Therefore preventing you from publishing and fucking you over months or years of work.
>>7730414
PhD does involve a lot of work. I have a JD and worked in NYC corporate law for two years before starting a PhD. The first year of the PhD involved comparable hours to working as a biglaw associate, but the mental strain is much higher because of the difficulty of the material. When I started doing research in the second year, the hours became reasonable but the mental strain of research was even worse.
Even then I'm in one of the best fields for PhD in terms of lifestyle, stipend, and employment. Lab science and humanities PhDs have it much worse than I do.
>>7731579
And does that happen often? I can't imagine it happening by coincidence, to be honest.
>>7731612
It often happens by coincidence when certain research sub-fields get trendy, new datasets are publicly released, or some big name says that something would be an interesting research topic for someone else to explore.
>>7731587
>Even then I'm in one of the best fields for PhD in terms of lifestyle, stipend, and employment.
And that is?
>>7723829
>you think you are getting paid and that you will revolution science. you wont.
speak por yourself retard. Lot of peope is more intelligent and capable that you. They probably WILL revolution science.
>>7725228
I don't really know what your point here is. My original point was that there's a trade off between doing interesting projects and getting scooped. There will always be a risk with going after highly sought after topics, but you're more vulnerable as an early career scientist trying to make a name for yourself as opposed to a tenured professor with loads of connections and resources. Some grad students take on really ambitious projects and succeed. Others not so much. It's hard to foresee when you're just starting out in the field.
>>7730389
It doesn't sound much different from the anglo system, I think. Don't you guys complete you Ph.D in 4/5 years ? Here, we do the master's in 2, then the PhD in ~3
>>7730144
do you mean kill yourself with mercury or become an autistic virgin basement dweller
>>7731678
found the under-aged.
>>7725408
>PhD work
>Easier than work
>Flexible schedule
>Avoid being stuck in an office 9+ hours a day
HAHAHA I wish.
>>7725266
>Science is not done by individuals anymore
GTFO communist
Do doctoral studies make you more aspie, or do grad students just seem aspie because they're the only ones attracted in the first place? Could a chill, fratty bro with a moderate work ethic (~45-50hrs per week reasonably) make it in a state school CS program?
>>7732578
Jesus Christ that's stern
>>7732666
It's just grad-school, undergrad was chill.
My PhD has been hell though.
>tfw my adviser just told me to scrap my plans to spend Christmas with family to work instead so we can our paper done for the January.
Meh, he's probably right, the sooner I can escape this hell hole the better.
People think that letter is a troll, but it's not at any competitive programme, I've been threatened to be replaced several times now to leverage me into working overtime.
But yes this, "haha it's better than a 9-5 office job at least" is fucking hilarious.
>>7732670
im doing my phd and i sleep in until the afternoon every day, my advisors are really chill, and mostly i just talk with people all day, but somehow im still one of the top students in my whole field... i think you just gotta pick the right field and right place
>this entire thread
why did I choose physics
I should just buy some helium and get it over with. Anyone know a vendor who doesn't mix in oxygen?
>>7731870
Newton is a by-word for aggressive plagiarism.
That is claim you had the idea first, do everything in your power to discredited the opposition, get regal politics involved, get knighted and win history.
>>7730190
You've had some really shitty luck to get scooped on your first two projects.
What field are you in?
>>7732692
what's your field and place then?
>>7732722
Carbon monoxide is faster
>>7732771
I don't have any real means of getting sufficient reliable CO concentrations and it's a nasty way to go if the concentration is too low.
Also I wasn't being entirely serious, if I wanted to do myself in I would have done so already.
>>7731636
Hotel Management
>>7730435
This Anon is doing it right.
NEVER do a PhD if your life plan is "well I want to get a PhD and take it from there, maybe academia, maybe industry" - NO you will kill yourself at 32 after reading yet another rejection letter.
Unless you have an exact plan that you want to use your PhD then you should be looking for work.
By exact I mean:
>Do a PhD at X university/institution at Y department with Z as my confirmed adviser with funding provided by [public/private grant that you should already have].
>Use Professor Z's contacts to get lectureship/postdoc at Q prestigious research group
OR
>Get promoted to U position in the company that is paying for your PhD.
That is how you get a career in either academia or industry with a PhD. A PhD programme is not another undergrad. You should not be doing the programme for the coursework and "getting exposure", you are wasting your time and money to be someone's lab rat who won't even write you a letter of recommendation.
Yes now I know what you're going to say next "b-but how can you get funding as an undergrad when you haven't published yet! How do you find advisers if you haven't had a chance to prove yourself yet!"
If you're asking these questions academia was never for you. The people who get hired into faculty positions in math or science have been publishing in undergrad -usually after being picked as RAs by professors and working over holidays. If this is not you you shouldn't bother paying for a PhD.
>>7732766
Advanced non-linear almost-periodic higher-order homotopic shitposting
$100k starting
>>7731439
When people say "PhD comics" they mean Piled Higher and Deeper:
www.phdcomics.com/
>>7725221
because the only real job is as a burgerflipper at mcd, right
>>7729367
The future for most pure mathematics degree holders is teaching or something like google for a few years with a masters.
If you have statistics and programming in your background as well with your maths degree, then you might luck out on data analytics/science.
>>7732787
Don't listen to this phaggot
I have a recently gained my PhD and I was firmly in the "not sure what to do next" camp.
I am now employed in industry with a reasonably high salary and continuing my scientific research.
Sure the job market is tough these days but having a PhD is always beneficial. It will secure you a higher salary and teaches many extra curricular skills that you can use to sell yourself.
Protip: Get some help with CV writing from your university careers service
>>7732844
>Frogposting loser quoting me
Ewww...
Fuck off.
>>7732845
u mad?
Step up your game, undergrad
>>7732787
Please tell me this happen only in high level faculties.
>>7732846
I'm 26 in a lecturing position with promise of a tenure track soon actually.
Don't get me wrong, I'm glad things worked out for you, but for every success story there are 10 horror stories. Blatantly factitious comments like "having a PhD is always beneficial" are especially harmful. I know quite a few unemployed PhDs who would murder you on the street if you said that to their face.
>>7732853
Aside from funding and equipment all postgrad faculties are more or less the same unless it's one of those academically inbred institutions that no one knows exists.
Will a PhD in biochem be useful? Will I be employed at a fancy company or should I just get the helium out at get this over with.
>>7732595
I mean if you have the expertise to design an experiment, draft and build the setup, program the protocol you wish to run, train animals incrementally towards that protocol, perform surgeries on the animals in order to implant recording devices, collect the data and write programs to analyze it, and draw conclusions from the analyzed data, your time is probably being wasted doing all of those things as your understanding as how all the components come together to generate a scientific finding could be put to better use by managing less trained people to do all of those tasks.
>>How accurate is Ph.D. comics with respect to actual Ph.D. life
Very. I would never understand why someone would self fund one. But if you're working on something you like or shit, actually enjoy researching then it can be very fun. Mine has sent me to places I never thought I'd ever see and given me life long friends. Just pick your project and more importantly supervisor wisely, I've seen quite a few people fucked over by theirs. Like a supervisor deciding to move country and only taking one of his student's with him in a group of 12.
>>7732816
>If you have statistics and programming in your background as well with your maths degree, then you might luck out on data analytics/science.
Cool, other than the PhD plan which is looking worse and worse, I'm strongly considering the actuarial profession. It's kinda funny, I've barely found any downside to it, it's almost like the bad sides of actuarial work are being hidden.
It was either a PhD, the military, or suicide, but I took the first because I'm getting funded so it's not so bad.
>>7732873
>Will a PhD in biochem be useful?
If you want to work in teh biotech arts at the USPTO you practically need a PhD. It is well paid and job security is simply olympic, mainly because sop few consider USPTO as an option.
>>7730389
Why? Almost all graduate programs are funded, so you actually make money when you do your masters. Also, when you start the PhD, you won't have to spend as much time learning what you need to start your thesis. Finally, it's not as intense as a PhD, so it's an option for people who want to just have a taste of research and then get into industry.
After my undergrad I chose not to pursue a PhD, though I considered it.
I'll be honest everything I've heard about it sounds really shitty. Why would I put myself through all that when I can get a job in the private sector that's much less stressful, more well-paid, doing practically the same thing?
I really don't understand it. Most institutions of higher education are elitist and corrupt as fuck. Honestly they don't deserve my time, I don't understand why so many others do it, other than having no other options.
>>7732600
A PhD program is a PhD program. Being at a state school won't make doing research harder.
>>7733868
easier?
what does scooping mean
>>7724598
>>A PhD is fun if you are smart enough to make the most out of it
Tips please
>>7732787
>having your future this autistically planned out
come on m8. i want a job that isn't boring as shit and pays well.
>you should not be doing the programme for the coursework
undergrad spotted. learning should be the primary reason lel...muh research, muh publications
I'm a final year undergrad, and I applied for an MPhil planning to go into a PhD afterwards. Am I delusional thinking that I will land a job for Microsoft/Google Research after my PhD? Doing AI/Computer Vision
there's literally no conceivable way i won't be able to get a good paying job if my research career doesnt pan out. i've worked all my undergrad part-time doing various software engineering gigs. i'm a better programmer than a lot of senior engineers, so fuck your bullshit thread faggots
>>7733788
>I'll be honest everything I've heard about it sounds really shitty. Why would I put myself through all that when I can get a job in the private sector that's much less stressful, more well-paid, doing practically the same thing?
This, although I'd question what you said afterwards, it's worth relinking this.
>>7729367
>>7734134
>learning should be the primary reason lel
You are precisely the retard he is talking about. PhD is not a learning experience. It's not another undergrad. You will be a lab monkey who's golden boy's bitch for a few years until you graduate and find you have lower employment prospects than your bachelors since your adviser didn't recommend you to his network and no company wants you.
>>7735425
Everyone here bitches that the only opportunity is being the golden boy's bitch, only golden boys get tenure, etc. Have you, you know, tried BEING the golden boy?
>>7735441
Directionless idiots who weren't groomed from undergrad never become golden boys. Like the other poster said, if you are at the point where you graduated and you're doing cold applications (ie. you aren't directly recommended by your prof. to the grad-schools you are applying to and/or you aren't doing your project under a professor who groomed you) you should find real work instead because you are wasting your time and money to be a monkey bitch.
What you should be doing instead is to work either in industry or national labs and eventually have them pay for your PhD.
Going to gradschool before that is retarded.
>>7735425
>lab monkey
I see, here is the problem. I picked a real science to study - one that actually has success with finding jobs upon graduating!
>>7735425
>have deadline for industrial sponsor coming up soon
>take zeros on exams and assignments in grad courses because I'm too busy grinding out results to appease the gods
>funding gets renewed and lab gets an extra $200,000 bonus because they liked our shit
>funding is enough to carry me until I finally cross the finish line
>school puts me on academic probation because of C's and threatens to boot me
>advisor takes none of this shit and I get excused immediately
feels good to be a golden tendie boy
So many lab monkey posts... what if I'm doing something like maths?
>>7736021
I'm ignorant about postgraduate life so quick question: wha tare those grad courses? Are they Master's courses? Are there "PhD" courses only for PhD students, or can PhD people just take any courses around the university that are made specifically for other levels? I thought phd was mostly research and lab work and meetings with supervisor, and TAing and generally slaving
>>7736352
I'm a different guy, but I'm also a PhD student.
In my program you generally take only courses (for PhD students only, and one or two masters students) and no labwork the first year. In addition to courses you try and find your research mentor.
After that, research research research, with the occaisonal course
>>7736382
What program is that, may I ask?
>>7736411
chemistry
What do you all mean by "golden boy"? Is it your advisor's favorite student?
>>7736104
Why are you worried with your $200k starting salary?
>>7732722
Shotgun. Don't put your family through a burial.
>>7724479
He's doing the lord's work, son. YOU fuck off
>>7736928
Starting salary is irrelevant if you can't even get the job.
>>7732722
M8 you see the world in formulas, you can explain everything down to its basic principles.
Is that not cool? Is that not why you study physics?
>>7724470
>yfw this is a bot and not a person
>>7724470
Thanks friend much appreciated hope you can make it to Reece's for barbeque and trivia night this Saturday
>>7737837
it's a person using a bot, noob
>>7737757
If you are in the US you might want to keep in mind that NSA is the single largest employer of US mathematicians. You can get a job as long as you don't smoke pot, are not a commie and is not called Snowdon. Just pick up your phone and call the recruiting office by calling, say, your grandmother.
>>7738069
>If you are in the US
Damn, UK.
>>7738069
>You can get a job as long as you don't smoke pot
lmao i had an internship locked up with the NSA and this is what kept me out
>>7738842
>this is what kept me out
In my PhD student days we had a US student vising us and he had the same problem. He found it weird that he was banned though the president had been smoking pot too. Obama was quite honest about smoking AND inhaling.
And these guys, my friends, control the US nuclear capacity.
>>7738842
just say you don't inhale
>>7732578
I'd find a way to fuck that Correia bitch over hard and black mail him in return.
European psychology masters student here
Should I even consider doing a PhD in neuroscience/psych? All PhD's where I'm located are paid for with a salary, not very high but acceptable
I'm very aware of most of the issues brought up in this thread, and I'm wondering whether any europeans or psych/neuroscience people here have any advice? Are there even any here? The impression /sci/ gives me is everyone here is pure math and physics/chem
>>7735667
What "real science" do you think I'm not talking about?
I was talking about Physics btw. Lab monkey does not imply in literal wet lab with a memecoat.
>>7736104
Your only publishable work will be your own first authorships and you won't get tons of minimal effort co-authorships like golden boy.
Your adviser will also make you do all the unpublishable grunt work and you will just be a lackey in general (shit like being asked to greet and tour visitors, supervise/invigilate undergrads outside of your TA contract, helping organise conferences etc.).
>>7739937
>Implying whatever puppet happens to be Potus at the time has more power than the NSA
Lol.
>>7740193
Is Trump a puppet?
>>7724302
Muh nigga.
>>7725408
>Engineering at the bachelors level isn't that technical.
Quite agree, but that is what Masters is for.
In the lab where I did my Masters, some of the lecturers *only* had a Masters, yet was more of an expert in the field than the lecturers with a PhD.
>>7741704
He's probably someone's puppet even if he isn't the most generic puppet.
>>7733046
Actuarial profession isn't bad, but I didn't list it originally because it's a fuck ton of extra work. Teaching in my opinion seems like a safe option for most people who want to do other shit with their lives.
I find it interesting that I graduated with about 15 others who all went into phd positions... It is sort of fun knowing that about half of them will drop the phd program before the end of year 2, and then maybe only a few will actually graduate on time. I really don't think a phd is worth it, but hey people are happy to put themselves through hell for a piece of paper apparently.
Should I spend the next several years of my life in a doctoral program or making money, socializing, and trying to get the most attractive wife possible?
>>7731579
It didn't prevent both Newton and Leibniz from publishing calculus at the same time.
Why would it matter today? If it's individual, independently developed, why does it matter
>>7743064
Doctoral program. Replace wife with waifu, socializing with 4chan, money with nothing.
>>7742921
>Actuarial profession isn't bad, but I didn't list it originally because it's a fuck ton of extra work.
The exams you mean? Or something else?
>>7744537
It's an entirely different feel.
Imagine learning about half a law degree after you just graduated. Very few people have that much energy and patience for unpaid work.
>>7736476
Means he is aroused by piss.
>>7743064
Do you want to contribute to humanity?
Good luck Mr Nobel Prize
>>7734148
>Am I delusional thinking that I will land a job for Microsoft/Google Research after my PhD?
>Microsoft Research
In case you haven't noticed, Microsoft has been laying off people in a slow but steady stream since their big-bang layoff in late 2014. That includes MSR, IIRC.
>Google Research
They've kind of topped out as a company, kinda like where MS was in 2000. What kind of shape they'll be in by the time you get your Ph.D is difficult to predict. Just remember that when you're on top of the world, there's no place to go but down (again, see MS as an example).
Neither of these kill your chances but just be aware that industry is constantly changing.
>>7745020
>Very few people have that much energy and patience for unpaid work.
I'm not sure what you mean, actuarial trainees get paid.
>>7737777
physics academia is fucking terrible
nice quads
>>7734148
the world is moving too fast to make predictions like that
whether you are suited to be a google employee: since you asked here instead of just researching (assuming anyway) probably not
AI is a trendy field
wich means you most likely wont be at the forefront doing anything of significance.
you also probably wont be out of a job.
>>7732722
get a masters and work on lasers / semi conductors / something-with-plasma
or just rev up skills that make you employable in an engineering kindof job
also programming (not codemonkey level)
tech oriented management
...
physics gives you a fuckton of options if youre not a fag
of course its not an plug&play kindof thing, like an engineering degree.
>>7746151
>of course its not an plug&play kindof thing, like an engineering degree.
kek
>>7732781
They have PhDs in Hotel Management?
>>7747457
Of course!! Why wouldn't they? As i said it is truely a hidden gem.
>>7747913
Kill me.
>>7747913
>Penn State
I fucking hate this school and happy valley blows.
>>7723826
>Oh you have a Ph. D.!? You must be real smart.
>>7723826
>scooping
If your work gets scooped you don't stop, you keep doing it. You read their papers and see how it is like yours. You publish regardless. You are doing science after all. You are not a rock star. Besides, you may find something they completely missed. your wire may be tight and theirs might be loose. You won't know until you are done.
Oh God, I love this thread. /sci/s tears are delicious.
You guys really showed those CompSci, engineering, business, med, bio majoring normie scum, didn't you?
And tomorrow there will be yet another thread how anyone not in phys or maths should be gassed! When.will.they.learn!
>>7750381
>CompSci and engineering are in the same tier as business, med and bio.
At least you learned something.
