Who /biomech/ here?
Has anyone read up on load bearing exoskeletons for walking? It sounds like they'd be useful for labor and physical jobs if they're scaled down to more compact designs
http://biomech.media.mit.edu/#/portfolio_page/load-bearing-exoskeleton-for-walking/
>>7701737
yes
check honda exo legs
they got neat designs
>>7701755
I heard that its more likely this kinda thing will be used to help really old people get around easier, earlier than it will be for manual labor
>>7701774
They started testing them in some japanese hospitals around 2013, but that's the last thing I can find for them, it's like they've dropped off the face of the earth
How complex are walk assist devices, anyways?
>>7701737
>>Has anyone read up on load bearing exoskeletons for walking?
yes.
>>scaled down to more compact designs
your link related is about as compact as they can get.
Check out this passive exoskeleton that counter balances the weight of a tool.
>>7702133
Untrue. Here's a thing by the same lab/people
https://youtu.be/CDsNZJTWw0w?t=9m34s
It's much smaller and unobtrusive but boosts walking capability in regular people. It wouldn't be so good for elderly people but it'd be great for people working in warehouses and other places where you have to be walking for 90% of the day
What im waiting on is mainstream smart hearing aids that dont cost thousands of dollars. Considering a bluetooth earpiece is only a couple of hundred.
>>7701737
Would it not be more efficient to merely temporarily reroute muscular signals to a full bot equipped with sensors to provide sense data back to the operator?
>>7703039
I'm waiting on being able to stream a digital visual feed direct to the visual field =[
>>7702383
wow.
bionics are here then.
i'm genuinely amazed.
so is natural selection a meme now?
>>7703114
No doctors and surgeons are still being faggots and don't do augmentative bionic limb transplants :(
>>7703114
No lie, what field do you study for this?
I'm a Comp. Eng undergrad but I want to work in neuroprosthetics.
>>7703125
You can't integrate a mechanical device with living tissue, infection is still a major issue.
>>7703269
Still not sure, it's such a new science there aren't a lot of people doing it. I've heard things like neurology, biomedical engineering. What op posted doesn't seem like biology at all desu, more mechanical engineering/robotics, with some kinesiology at the very least. I'm highly interested in working on it, seems pretty awesome but my degree is in microbiology, which in general has a different approach, but could maybe help this >>7703310 issue. I wish there was more funding/cashflow in this area.
>>7703310
Even if you could they wouldn't do it.
>>7703052
Hypothetically and in the future? Absolutely. But we don't have the technology or knowledge right now to actually do those things without spending millions and doing complex, invasive surgery on the subject. We don't know enough about nerves and we don't have sensors that can detect or read them well enough on the skin.
It's why bionic arms are miles behind functionality compared to bionic legs.
>>7703269
>>7703319
Biomechatronics is the field. But it's niche and cross disciplinary so there aren't any real 'biomechatronics degrees' - most people working in the field study in related or close fields, since there's a lot. Anything that involves integrating or mimicking biologic and technological systems is usually fine. The head of the lab in the OP, iirc, has a degree in biophysics (and two bionic legs).
The biggest issue is finding a goddamn lab or research area dedicated to shit like that. The ones I've found? MIT and John's Hopkins.
>>7702383
dank senpai
>>7701737
Any suggestions on what to study to work in this field OP? Last year of secondary school fag here
>>7703595
Damn, I need to ask about how one would get into doing graduate research, then, if there's only two labs for it.
It seems like the next big step.
>>7705398
Biology, Electronics, and Robotics -- if you're still in secondary school they're all probably either courses you can elect to take (or have taken) or some sort of club. Join the clubs, they'll look good in getting into a college that has advanced programs.
In uni (I'm assuming you're in the UK) you'll have to study the same kind of stuff, look for courses that focus on biomimicry or integrating technology into biological systems, if you can't find a straight course on prosthesis. Stuff like biomechanics (Which is slightly different) or biotech. Mechatronics and electronics by itself also probably good courses to take up for this.
It wouldn't hurt to take purely medical courses as well. You're working with the human body and how it moves, so you'll need to know physiology and anatomy, not to mention neurobiology.
As an aside, I'm not actually in a program yet for this either, and I'm talking out of my limited knowledge. The best thing you can do is actually call up a professor or researcher who's worked on this kind of shit and ask them what they studied in -- or just look it up since it's a part of public record. Hugh Herr is one of the leaders in biomechatronics, I think he's got a degree in biophysics.
>>7705413
The obvious answer is to apply for MIT, anon.
go big or go home
kbump
>>7701737
>mfw there's a "Biomechatronics" student design team at my uni
>mfw it's basically just some PhD trying to rope in naive biomedical and mechatronics engineers into doing dipshit poverty-tier "research"
INNOVASHUN!!!!! never change uw
>>7707025
What's this jackass trying to get passed as research?
Tell us some horror stories, anon
>>7707049
It's not really 100% research, from what I understand (a friend of mine is on the team) they're trying to build proof of concepts for shit like robotic hands.
pic related
frankly an undergrads time is much better spent on teams that actually have funding and will lead to more experience
sorry i have no horror stories (the guy doesn't even have a website!)
>>7707068
>9gag
>imgur
>bookmark tabs on a webpage you're presenting
>fingernails for no reason other than aesthetic
>That fucking thumb
That's not even how a thumb works. Holy shit anon.
Robotic hands aren't even viable new research, there's so much more shit to do in the field that nobody's tried yet. Who the fuck let this guy lead anything other than the midnight shift at mcdonald's?
>>7707086
https://youtu.be/KPhkVPNKtVA?t=321
his arms are the same pictured in op
they're surprisingly functional, and as she says if he had more time they'd be more functional
>>7707086
It's a combination of factors that lead to shit like this. Here's a brief overview.
1. UW is a top 3 engineering school in Canada, and BME (biomedical eng.) is a very new program that has a lot of hype around it. there's tons of high school kids who are applying to it because their parents are forcing them too/the hype. For reference, my friend in BME had to compete with 900 other people for 45-55 spots last year.
2. UW is expanding rapidly and quality of education is correspondingly dropping in some areas. Basically anything related to the engineering faculty is getting funding (mostly a blessing, sometimes a curse).
3. There are tons of dipshit companies who are happy to throw money away in the name of "community-building" and "practicing corporate-social responsibility". Combine this with the "UW is an innovation hub!!!!!" reputation and you'll get people making student teams like this.
It's ironic that BME admissions are so competitive. Their program is more or less a spinoff of one of the easiest engineering programs, just with some bio courses thrown in.
I forgot to mention that we've also got lots of kids joining these teams to pad their resumes. That's a huge factor and very apparent on any team/club you join.
>>7707149
Why's such an obvious chucklefuck heading it up though
There's gotta be at least one competent person who wants robot arms and deus ex in the world at UW
>>7707155
couldn't tell you, i'm not privy to the inner working of that team or the uni bureaucracy
>>7707167
another UW student?
lmao i'm so tired of all that "ideas start here" "canada's most innovative university" etc bullshit. I came here to study to become an engineer, not suck corporate dick or circlejerk about how great this uni is
>>7707178
Yeah, I'm a first year math student. After hearing some of the sketchy shit CECA pulls, seeing how fucking void campus life really is, and the stress of this school makes me regret going here instead of western or mac.
My program is good which is a plus.
>>7703125
that's because "augmentative bionic limb transplants" are not a thing. Bionic limbs are worse than their biological counterparts at the current time.
>>7707184
heh yeah I'm a first year too. the CECA rumors are true. For my first term I was matched with an employer. Didn't like the job so I spoke to the employer and they agreed to "unmatch" me and find another student.
I go to CECA to tell them about it all, and they tell me that if I try to leave this job, they'll kick me off jobmine for 2 terms. even with the mutual agreement between me and the employer. Be wary of what you apply to, that's all the advice I can give you.
what program btw? CS?
and re: western and mac, the social life is a lot more fun but the education is shit. there's a lot of shit to do at uw and you get to go on co-op to cool places so its fun. if you want i'll give you some recommendations for stuff to do
>>7707206
Program is pure maths, but for now I'm just honors maths. I'm mostly just looking for research work terms, and what not. I'm definitely considering a minor in something like economics or finance.
>>7707215
man pure math, that's fucked. respect, i could never do that shit. protip: join a student team that seems cool and you'll learn a lot, meet cool people (seriously) and go to new places. I'm on one and I highly recommend it, even if you aren't in engineering.
how's 135? i have a friend who's getting assfucked by it
>>7707191
Even if they existed surgeons wouldn't do it.
>>7707262
Why?
>>7701737
>physical jobs
All jobs are physical jobs
Except for magical jobs
>Did you have physical access to the machine?
>Or did you have magical access?
>>7707262
Yes they would.
I can go in and have parts of my PP cut off. I can also have all of it cut up and made into an imitation of the other sex. Why is this possible? Both surgeries are culturally accepted and have a clear purpose and destination. If there were readily available and suitable replacements, medicine would be on board. It is an industry, and that's how it works.
>>7707178
m8 nothing good or sophisticated is coming out of canada at this point. have you seen the buffoons they just elected to run the country?
>>7707256
I came into the course two weeks late, but by now I've caught up, I just consistently ate shit on the assignments due to errors in notation, or leaps in logic. I found the material piss easy, but for some people it's a challenge thinking conceptually with maths, especially with some of the problems where you can't visualize it geometrically.
What program were you in?
>>7707266
>hey doc can you cut off my arm I want to put this mechanised one on there instead
>>uh, are you fucking crazy, no I can't do that you nut job
>>7707266
>>7707354
>>hey doc can you cut off my arm I want to put this mechanised one on there instead
You're crazy, don't you know that cutting off your arm and attaching a prosthesis is a dangerous medical procedure? You might get an infection that kills you. Your nerve interface might not last and you won't have an arm and you could end up suing me for malpractice! You might get stuck with implants that become obsolete and cannot be replaced and sue me.
Why don't you just bribe a doctor in some 3rd world country to do it?
>>7707367
oops forgot link:
http://www.technologyreview.com/news/543246/to-study-the-brain-a-doctor-puts-himself-under-the-knife/
>>7707262
Kek you havent met any surgeons they are all fucking nuts.
Regards,medstudent.
>>7707275
>I can go in and have parts of my PP cut off. I can also have all of it cut up and made into an imitation of the other sex. Why is this possible? Both surgeries are culturally accepted and have a clear purpose and destination. If there were readily available and suitable replacements, medicine would be on board. It is an industry, and that's how it works.
In that case it's reluctantly seen as a treating an illness.
>>7701737
I mean if you're into this stuff, you may as well go into the signal processing side rather than the mechanical engineering side. All the real work needs to be done in deciding/encoding neural signals. Building the actual mechanical limb is the simple part.
>>7707431
Circumcision is cosmetic surgery. Most people also view it as augmenting the mechanical function of the penis. Sex reassignment is equally mechanical.
The point is, neither of them are necessary but are routinely performed because of cultural presence. If removing a limb to replace it, and changing your body was readily possible, even if it wasn't a cultural norm, the medical system would (after brief resistance) adapt.
What doctors will and will not do is disjointed, and it's arbitrary. In this case, it would quickly happen. Unlike the modern equivalent of people who want to cut their limbs off for no reason other than psychological discomfort, this has a purpose and a rationale. This anon >>7707367 brought up a number of issues that would initially meet resistance, but it'd just be boiled down to a few papers to sign proving informed consent and waiving liability to the extent allowed by whatever laws exist at the time.
>>7707436
My point is right now and for the foreseable future, the risks exceed the benefits.
>>7707475
Yeah, probably. Nonetheless, it'll probably happen sooner than we think.
I like the idea of adding mechanical parts to the human body is interesting. I've seen a good deal of sci-fi, played the games, though through the idea of "what is the body" and its implication on identity.
But in the end, it's all irrelevant. Prosthetics have far too many problems and by the time they're solved, lib regrowth will probably be more viable. The technologies actually have a lot of overlap. Mounting will remain an issue for the foreseeable future, and a power source is also difficult.
People are better off learning to live with and improve their own body. Maybe even appreciate it and accept it as a part of their "self". Ignoring subjective philosophical ideals, they're probably going to be net inferior by any objective metric, for a while.
>>7707321
mechanical or mechatronics engineering senpai
>>7707354
>>7707367
You're both using a circular argument. The initial post said doctors would do it if prosthetics were superior to current human limbs, that's including things like mounting and proper nerve interfacing.
You're right, though. Most surgeons won't do it untested for risk of hurting their own numbers.
The second someone famous operates on the procedure or gets it, though? Shit's going down.
