How well accepted in the scientific community are Danny Vendramini's theories on Neanderthal biology? I realize he's a bit of a crack-head because of his "human/ape war" theories. However, I'm just wondering about his general claims.
>>7643010
Bump for interest. Gimme a tl;dr if you could, friend
>>7643010
I don't think the scientific community pays attention to such sensationalist pseudoscience other than to point out the many claims it makes without evidence and the fact that it is not a scientific "theory" at all.
>>7643034
TL;DR
Everything museums and documentaries say about how neanderthals looked is bullshit.
Ice Age Europe was the most inhospitable period of all time for life on earth, so the idea that a pink-skinned, hairless human could survive and breed there is retarded. Also, all our facial recognition software we use on their skulls is modeled after humans, despite neanderthals being RELATED to humans, not actually being humans. Therefor, they were nothing like us, and were more like purely carnivorous, northern gorillas.
>>7643044
Continuation:
Also, their eyes were way too big for them to be casual humans who hunted. Their eye size indicates that not only were they solely carnivorous to survive in the tundra, but they were also nocturnal predators.
>>7643037
It's definitely sensationalist. However, it's false to say that there's no evidence to back up his out-there claims.
>>7643010
Shouldn't it be easy to model how much muscle a mammal would have had from its skeleton?
>>7643044
>Ice Age Europe was the most inhospitable period of all time for life on earth, so the idea that a pink-skinned, hairless human could survive and breed there is retarded.
But humans did just that, according to the fossil record. There also is some archaeological evidence that Neanderthals were using sewn clothing. Why would they do that if they had fur?
http://anthropology.net/2009/06/26/neanderthals-dried-fresh-meat-wore-tailored-clothing-energy-study/
>Also, all our facial recognition software we use on their skulls is modeled after humans, despite neanderthals being RELATED to humans, not actually being humans.
That's just not true. We use skulls to reconstruct the faces of both apes and humans. Neanderthal skulls have several human-like features such as projecting nasal bones while gorillas have flat noses. Not to mention that we know that we are not simply related to Neanderthals but very similar genetically to them.
>Therefore, they were nothing like us, and were more like purely carnivorous, northern gorillas.
What is the evidence for their carnivorousness?
>Also, their eyes were way too big for them to be casual humans who hunted. Their eye size indicates that not only were they solely carnivorous to survive in the tundra, but they were also nocturnal predators.
How exactly does their eye size suggest carnivorousness? Larger eyes would be expected simply because the North has less sun than Africa. It does not mean that they were nocturnal predators. This is all very shoddy logic.
>>7643060
I'm not claiming to be an expert or to be "smarter" than anyone here. I'm just stating his.
However, as air-tight as your arguments are, I do have some questions just out of curiosity:
1. Why would they NOT have hair? Why would an animal that needs to make artificial fur even come to evolve in the Ice Age? That makes no sense Darwin-wise.
2. Not really a question, but we know that they were entirely carnivorous based off of tooth enamel.
3. While the North DID get less sunlight, large eyes pair pretty linearly with nocturnalness. It's not so open and shut.
>>7643071
* stating his thesis.
>>7643010
>"So, if I understand correctly, the image you want is the "angriest ape imaginable"?
>"Absolutely, if I look at the final product and I can imagine him being more angry than that, I will be severely disappointing"
>"say no more sir, say no more"
>>7643077
Someone got a promotion:
>>7643071
>Why would they NOT have hair? Why would an animal that needs to make artificial fur even come to evolve in the Ice Age?
That's a very good question. I think the best evidence we have, and one that throws a lot of Vendramini's ideas into question, is that Europe was not constantly glacial. During interglacial periods the temperature would have been similar to modern times, and a furry coat would not be needed. And as I already mentioned, we know Neanderthals are very similar to us genetically and that there are some indications they were sewing clothing.
>Not really a question, but we know that they were entirely carnivorous based off of tooth enamel.
No, we know from studies of teeth and coprolite that they were omnivorous, even eating cooked vegetables.
https://www.ncbi.nlm.nih.gov/pubmed/21445243
https://www.ncbi.nlm.nih.gov/pmc/articles/PMC16602/
>While the North DID get less sunlight, large eyes pair pretty linearly with nocturnalness. It's not so open and shut.
Their eyes are not much larger than ours. They had better eyesight but this does not mean they were nocturnal.
>>7643044
>purely carnivorous, northern gorillas.
just like ur mom lol
>>7643102
Thanks for answering my questions without being condescending. After all, I'm not actually arguing against you, but just repeating his arguments.
This is his theory about the eyes:
https://youtu.be/mZbmywzGAVs?t=682
Just don't keep watching when it shows him camping in the woods. At that mark in the video, his arguments stop becoming logical, and go full retard.
>>7643083
> gorillas with lizard iris
truly spooky
>>7643136
I don't understand how someones life can revolve around the evolution of primates, and yet they screw up this badly. Hell, if they're nocturnal- at least take SOME inspiration from nature.
>>7643136
Spooky Kong
>>7643227
Be careful, you almost spooked me
>>7643044
I believe it
>>7643128
The stuff about the nose and ape-like face is just plain wrong. His only "analysis" is to overlay the silhouette of a neanderthal skull over an ape's face, but this is meaningless because it does not reflect the angles at which the heads actually rested. There's a reason we make Neanderthal faces very similar to human faces, it's because the skulls are very similar! And they're not similar to other primates. He hypocritically argues that there's an anthropormorphic bias (ignoring the visible similarity of the skulls) and then goes ahead and assumes that the face is similar to non-human primates without evidence. It's silly. The bone structure clearly contradicts the flat nose which is integral to his concept.
>>7643244
Doot Doot
>>7643709
> i have a fox.fedora
just throwing randomly in what a fucking edgelord you are
>>7643120
made me laugh histerically
>>7643719
Not original anon, but foxes are edgelord?
>>7643291
Yea, but what about those africans that have resting ape face, or aborigines. They have a face that is significantly different from an asian man's face. I whole heartedly believe that neanderthals could have had faces more ape like than some extreme examples of humans, not saying they looked like mutant chimps though.
>>7643010
I highly doubt we'd have fucked those.
Also the theory ignores that Neanderthal lived outside of Europe too, in warm if not hot areas.
What i hate most about theories like this is that the general public always tend to believe them over the more truthful scientific ones. It will get so bad it ends up infecting the scientific research.
>>7643291
It also ignores the fact that when we use the same methods to reconstruct the faces of early hominids they come out looking very ape like. The process is very accurate, if Neanderthal looked like a gorilla the reconstruction would too. It's not being modeled after humans, the muscle is simply applied to the skull in the areas we know it is because of the visual bone muscle attachment parts, i forget the name, but the marks on the bone show where muscle sits and how large they are.
>>7643797
> I highly doubt we'd have fucked those.
A quick visit to /b/ proves otherwise.
>>7643797
I don't get it
modern day primates live in plenty of hot places but still have dense fur
>>7643044
> Ice Age Europe was the most inhospitable period of all time for life on earth
Why don't u ask ur mum what the hadean eon was like
>>7643071
How i see it.
>1. Why would they NOT have hair? Why would an animal that needs to make artificial fur even come to evolve in the Ice Age? That makes no sense Darwin-wise.
They evolved before ice age. And any later evolution of hair would've decreased survival pressure, decreasing the need for intelligence. Sexual selection took care of the rest - they didn't really find dumb hairy individuals attractive.
>2. Not really a question, but we know that they were entirely carnivorous based off of tooth enamel.
Meat is preferred, like it was for early homo sapiens. During ice age, it was vital. But surprisingly, they were not stupid and ate whatever was edible.
http://news.nationalgeographic.com/news/2014/06/140625-neanderthal-poop-diet-ancient-science-archaeology/
>>7643797
They wouldve raped us according to the hypothesis
>>7643924
They could've also been not 'that' ugly.
>>7643934
Who nose they could be nasty as fuuu
>>7643782
They are fedora tier.
>I only have intelectually superior pets for intellectual superiors such as myself
>*tips fox*
>m'canine
>>7643044
>purely carnivorous, northern gorillas
Who had sex with homo sapiens
>>7643943
Darn, I was really wanting to get a pet fox before. Thanks for the social heads-up.
>>7643885
The concept has been raped pretty hard already by this thread. Do any anons here have their own "guilty pleasure" theories?
>>7643056
... not "easy" but possible to estimate. Bear in mind that complete skeletons are rare, so the estimate is made from a reconstructed skeleton.
>>7644870
>bear in mind
u got me
>>7643044
They were also super rapists. They killed hte men and raped the women until she birth a child.
>>7643813
/b/ is homo erectus. They're far more primitive than Neanderthal.
>>7644209
We probably evolved this way over hundreds of thousands of years. It came natural.
>>7644209
There are some interesting theories regarding this as improbable. There's a book called "Eve Spoke" that suggests language as a major barrier of inter-species mating. I haven't read it in a while, and I'm kind of drunk, so forgive my lack of elaboration.
goddam why are these wacky pseudo science people always australian?
someone post the tldr on the aqua ape theory
>>7643010
Another pathetic attempt by whitey to cover up the truth that they are albinos.
>>7645829
A feminist invented it. That's all you need to know.
>not wanting a neanderthal gf
>>7645882
Just because a feminist "invented" (lol how do you invent a hypothesis) it doesn't mean it's not retarded. You are clearly retarded.
>>7645908
no, its retarded, trust me. its an excuse for her being fat.
>>7645897
>>7645899
>>7645900
If they shaved I'd still fuck it. Shit, get me drunk enough I'd probably fuck them as is.
...
I need to get more hobbies
>>7644230
Mine is that we're living in a virtual simulation of an universe.
>>7643845
Not the warm insulating stuff he's portrayed in.
>>7646308
The only primate today that actually needs fur:
>>7645829
https://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Aquatic_ape_hypothesis
>>7643845
Fur is protective against parasites, solar radiation, and allows species recognition
>>7646301
I don't care how wrong this is, I enjoy it just the same.
>>7643034
Just watch the trailer of the newest Planet of the Apes. That's full of neanderthal's.
did neanderthals language?
were neanderthals as social as humans, or were their groups smaller?
I heard more of their brain was dedicated to processing visual information than ours. Would they have been dumber then us, with logic and problem solving, even if they were close enough to make tools and bury their dead?
>>7643083
I call ayy lmaos
>>7645888
fuck em
>>7645897
Personally i think Neanderthal Shakira looks great.
