>Got a project the other day that was written like a dissertation.
>No example code, just paragraphs with minor examples of input/output.
>Normies in the class who slept through the required math courses BTFO and start to complain like mad.
>Professor don't give a fuck, TA don't give a fuck.
I take a few hours and recall my knowledge of math with a few searches on the subject and solve it without any code. Math is so damn good for CS, feels good finding an algorithm before I even start coding.
Why do you study CS if you don't like math?
CS is basically applied math.
>>7639624
> feels good finding an algorithm before I even start coding
So you normally just type random lines and hope it works?
>>7639624
>acting like CS doesn't stand for Codemonkey School
>>7640587
more like Codemonkey Studies
>>7640592
>Implying you have to study.
CS is a joke.
And a daily reminder from /g/
The degree you get in 4 years is worth as much as a guy with a certificate from so called "coding bootcamps" that take only about a month.
You studied a meme my friend, now you are worthless to society.
>>7639578
>>Got a project the other day that was written like a dissertation.
Post it so we can mock you for finding something ultra simple interesting
>>7640628
OP here.
It was super complicated. It had some extra info about the method and how we should do it but essentially it said:
You will have to write a piece of software that when executed outputs the text "Hello World".
That was awful. Do you see? There is not even code in it!
You need a lot of math because our CS book is quite cryptic and it is hard to find the number of the page that tells us exactly how to do this. A bunch of my class mates started doing some heavy calculations about where the code would be in the book but no one could find it. That is why we complained to the teacher.
How are we supposed to do something if we are not instructed exactly how to, with incredible baby-sitting detail, do it? But our teacher is an asshole and didn't care. Such dicks. That is why I believe there should be more independent women in STEM (the easy ones, of course.) Women would be much more understanding and caring and woudl help us!
I'm like so mad right now.
btw I'm american too
>>7640612
>not so subtle
Average starting salary out of the undergraduate program in CS at my school is more than $80k/yr, with the numbers on offers typically being in excess of $120k.
If what you say regarding the certificate is true, that's one valuable certificate.
>inb4 wagekek
>>7639578
Is actual knowledge of algorithm development or discrete mathematics actually that rare of an expectation in your program? Most of my CS classes (also a CS major) are very intensive with respect to the theoretical and mathematical foundations. It's a waste of your time if you're spending four years taking classes on nothing but programming.
>>7640641
>Average starting salary out of the undergraduate program in CS at my school is more than $80k/yr
That is not the average. If anything that is the average of the top 5% of the class that go into top tier companies. Nobody will pay you 80k, you better swallow this bitter truth now.
>If what you say regarding the certificate is true, that's one valuable certificate.
Just as your CS department advertises the 80k figure, code bootcamps advertise the average salary of 105k.
What does this mean? This means that they are also lying. Another figure from the top 5% that got really good jobs.
If the lies of a CS department are on par with the lies of a coding bootcamp, then the hidden truth must be roughly equal.
And it is actually better for them and here is why:
Imagine that a CS graduate and a coding bootcamp graduate apply to the same job.
You both swallowed the lies of "MUH 100K JOB" but there is a difference between you two. The CS graduate is an ignorant rich boy who thinks he deserves 100k. The coding bootcamp is most likely a guy in his 30s that was until then working at Mc Donald's and will take any salary above minimum wage because he just wants to get out of poverty.
The company knows this and they know that even if they get you to accept a job paying you the 40k you deserve, you will ask for more constantly while the coding bootcamp guy will be happy that he can buy that extra cigarette now and will kiss the ass of everyone there to keep it that way.
And lets say that you get the job anyways. Have fun doing crunch time pretty much every day, in a job that is not respected by anyone in management and has no unions.
You are a CS graduate. Do you think that you will be hired to do cryptography? Search algorithms? Research? No no no, companies hire mathematicians for that. You will be working over time on videogames and phone apps like the monkey you are.
I hope you are in Europe so at least you don't have to pay 100k/yr for your useless degree.
>>7640671
Everything you say rests on the assumption that I'm speaking from departmental advertisements, which is not the case: I'm speaking from offers I've personally received (I'm an upperclassman looking to continue as a graduate, fielding my options for work just in case), as well as from the salaries of friends who have graduated in the past year or so.
I really don't understand why you're so sour about the idea of people studying computer science making a competitive living.
As for cryptography, algorithms, and what we at my institution call theoretical computer science, that's covered very heavily, even in my undergraduate program. In fact, the only classes I'm taking this year are cryptography, machine learning/computational learning theory, natural language processing, numerical algorithms, and advanced topics in intrusion/anomaly detection.
Additionally, I have done both cryptography and research (pertaining to the intersection of mathematics and computer science) as an (undergraduate) intern (making more than the '40k I deserve').
I'm honestly somewhat amused by the degree to which you're unable to conceive of a reality in which a computer science program is something other than what you've convinced yourself into believing.
![two_girls_pointing_laughing_6[1].jpg](https://i.imgur.com/O39yt1C.jpg "two_girls_pointing_laughing_6[1].jpg")
>>7640671
>companies hire mathematicians for that
That fucking delusion. I'm willing to bet you've never worked at any software related job, or even looked at any software job postings before. You're going to be in for one hell of a surprise, kid.
>I have modded a few games, I'm no pleb
>w-what do you mean yeah I've seen Big O
>>7640612
>the guy who learned about python built-ins for a month is equivalent to a guy with 4 years of math/CS/data struct/algos/automata theory/AI/ML classes + 2 years of internships/co-op, not even counting personal projects
yeah no bud you are fucking delusional and most likely trolling
>>7640671
dude i know multiple people making 85k out of undergrad. it's not average and i'm not getting it but people who can get good development positions and can negotiate can get that out of school on the east coast.
>>7640803
so what are mathematicians hired for?
>>7640846
Pic related.
Better hope you know more programming than excel and at least went to grad school, because ML is taking over actuarial science as well.
Software is eating the world. That's why people are such sourfags about the idea of CS majors making money.
fucking hubristic mathfags think they're the only people on the planet who can do proofs
>>7640811
ITS SHOWTIME
>>7640671
>Nobody pays you 80k
Not if you're a mathematician.
Me. Just proved the RSA algorithm for correctness the other day. Felt good.
>>7640881
kek.
is /m/ the second most /sci/ board?
>>7640938
>Read Berkeley Survey
>Undergrad mathematicians getting paid 84k
>Still most of them went to grad school
>For that sweet 300k starting
>>7640877
If you think actuary is the only path a mathematician can take then you are actually stupid. But it is one of the best paid ones I believe so I guess I'll let it pass. I assume you only meet rich mathematicians so it is okay to assume they are all doing the highest paying job.
>>7640846
Actuarial Science
Computer Analyst or programmer
Economist
Engineering Analyst
Information Scientist
Marketing Research Analyst
Mathematician
Meteorologist
Numerical Analyst
Operations Research
Statistician
Systems Analyst
>>7640840
I said that the top 5% get that salary and with good reason.
>>7640839
What I said is true unless you apply for a job at microsoft doing complex things. If you apply for a job at a startup or any company doing videogames or apps they will hire the guy from the coding bootcamp for the reason already stated. And no, there are no open positions at microsoft for every CS graduate (literally around 40k new CS guys per year).
>>7640803
I can disprove your statement with a single google search. But the proof is trivial and is left for the reader.
>>7640988
Just letting you know these dumbasses won't listen.
My gf and I both got a math degree. She got hired at telecommunications and I'm doing data analysis. She's around CS majors and getting paid more to tell them what to do, while I'm around CS majors getting paid more with just novice programing skills.
She gets 64K, plus 7% bonus. I get 60K with an unknown bonus. Both right out of undergrad.
Most people here don't even have their degrees, much less listen to what a degree has to offer. There's a reason math degrees are considered one of the most valuable degrees and why they score the highest in the law school entrance exam
>>7640988
40% of entry level positions are 80K+
Also, what kind of asshole derails a thread about CS majors who like math.
>>7640846
Their problem-solving abilities. And swimming in unfamiliar waters.
I might not know "Ruby-on-rails" but I guarantee I could learn it.
>>7640948
When you say 'correctness,' do you mean correctness of the encryption and decryption schemes?
Or do you mean that you unconditionally verified that it is impossible to break RSA (i.e., it is impossible to devise a PPT algorithm capable of factoring large primes correctly in the average case)?
The first would prove to be a good exercise, but the second is rather a heavy claim.
>>7640938
>not if you're a mathematician
You're correct, because 300k is bigger than 80k.
They pay you 80k + 220k
>>7641060
I also suppose you would guarantee that you could learn any facet of electrical engineering, mechanical engineering, or any other concretely named field of technical work on the basis of your infallible and ever-giving 300k-starting math degree, correct?
>>7641068
I don't think it's possible to prove that RSA is secure, I simply proved that [math]m=m^{ed} + mod\ n[/math].
>>7641060
In addition to the physics/math/statistics required:
Using unix/ command line computing efficiently
Competently and securely administer a network
Learn multiple languages and paradigms
Be able to implement an interpreter
Enough number theory to implement crypto proptocols
So called "discrete math"/formal logic/proof
Understand the common data structs. & alg.
Understand theory including models of computation and computational complexity
Having a strong understanding of comp architecture (we had to actually design and simulate a cpu)
Knowing how to competently test software
Parallelism which requires knowledge of architecture
Understand graphics and simulation.
Databases (as in being able to set up and run a LAMP stack)
How to use centralized version control/common debugging tools
Plenty more...
So yes. You probably could learn all of these things. But it would probably take you about as long as a math degree. So if you're interested in this sort of thing, why not just get the degree in this.
If you are at a decent school, doing research, internships, and hackathons, you will learn how to swim in unfamiliar waters just as well as any mathematician.
>>7640988
>a startup / videogame company will hire code monkeys instead of people experienced in algorithmic programming
>"at microsoft doing complex things"
confirmed for you don't know SHIT and are making this bullshit up on the spot, your information, as you gleefully admit, all comes from quick google searches.
shut the fuck up
>>7641142
It's very possible.
>>7641277
>in addition to math
>number theory, combinatorics, proofs, efficiency, algorithms and data structures
kek
most of the other stuff can be learned very quickly. it's easy to teach a mathematician how to code well, it's hard to teach a code monkey to learn math. it sure as hell will not "take as long as a math degree". you're severely overestimating the difficulty of several of these.
>>7641306
I could have gotten a math undergrad pretty easily if I wanted. I have gone through most of the math that a math major is expected to know, pretty much everything short of Papa Rudin.
Anyway, you're severely underestimating the difficulty of a comp-sci degree from a top institution and overestimating the difficulty of an undergrad in math.
But I wouldn't expect anything less from /sci/
>>7641321
You intentionally inflated your post with things that a math major knows and trivial bullshit like using version control and a command line.
Write something more serious and I might give you more credibility. I really doubt you've gone through "most of the math a math major is expected to know" more than a light read of meme math books, but that's completely irrelevant.
>>7641321
>Rudin
>hasn't even taken analysis
>claims to have done most of a math major
idiot
>>7641333
Version control, okay you caught me being a bit lazy.
As far as command line. Nice try, but you clearly don't have any idea what I'm talking about. I'm not talking just navigating the file system. I'm talking composing processes with pipes, vim/emacs, and writing shell scripts That's not exactly something you're going to learn to do at a high level in a week.
Jesus fucking Christ, every single topic HAS to have a complete beta insecure faggot spouting how his dick is bigger just for doing course X.
The worst is: the autism level of /sci/ is so fucking high that there's plenty of retards who bite the b8.
Now, refering to the topic: IMO, if math really isn't yours, go to Information Systems, Software Engineering or something like that, where you'll face problems of other types.
CS is for Comp SCIENCE. And yes, involves a fuckton of, at least, decent math.
>>7641519
>CS is for Comp SCIENCE. And yes, involves a fuckton of, at least, decent math.
If the school you're attending is decent. If not, then you better double major in math/cs. The search algorithms, machine learning, and AI are reserved for the PhD in applied math or CS with a lot of math. Too many fags on /sci/ believe you need to know obsecure pure math to survive in STEM. In reality that's not true. If you want to survive in a quant heavy field then forget about doing numbers in your head. That's the job of a calculator/computer. Your job is to figure out why this work and that doesn't. Programmers and engineers just say oh it just works without explaining why it works or doesn't. Also most companies don't care where you got your masters/PhD. As long its accredited. They'll accept the guy in his 30s with work experience and a graduate degree over the faggot in his 20s with no experience.
>>7641363
Papa Rudin not Babby Rudin
>>7641541
Couldn't agree more.
>>7641080
Actually, many Math graduates choose to do a Masters on some kind of engineering but of course, this is a 2 year endeavor.
The difference is that nowadays, mathematics curriculums (at least mine does) has programming classes and mine even has an algorithm optimization class. That is why a mathematician can learn RoR but then again, anyone could learn RoR or Python or Java in 30 minutes.
>>7641277
Not all of these are required for one job. In fact, most job postings do not expect you to as they put things such as "knowing how to use UNIX systems" as extras that are not necessary but make you a better candidate.
>>7641301
Yeah, I do not know shit. Various programs under my name have simply popped up into existence instead of me programming them in my free time.
What is wrong with my statement?
App startups and videogame companies will hire code monkeys. Why? Because odds are they already have a small group of programmers working on their engine. All they need are 50 guys that can program the gameplay of the game and for that you only need to memorize what function does what.
But you know, I am glad that you cannot just calmly prove me wrong, you have to sperg out and get mad as fuck. This is what a CS student looks like guys. He probably also dropped his spaghetti while typing that.
>>7641321
>comp-sci from a top insitutions
Those are fine. For example, in berkeley there is no CS, there is EECS. Because top schools know that CS is a joke and they do not teach jokes. If you are a top school you should be fine, at least that is what I have experienced.
>>7641519
CS usually just goes up to Differential Equations. You do not have to be a pure math major to know that that is really poor.
>>7640639
kek
>>7641655
Ok, I've expressed myself poorly here.
As >>7641541 said, the hard math comes after graduation. What I've meant is: if you really want study CS, and not just get a diploma, it's better your ass is ready for the math.
Althought in the most cases, not even DE it's seen, I must admit. It seems I'm a bit of romantic/idealist...
>>7641655
>CS usually just goes up to Differential Equations.
Its discrete math. Most places don't go up to DE. If you want to do cool things in CS you need to double major in math. You need to learn proofs and learning how to code AI. UCB has EECS which is computer engineering by the way because they want their students to have different careers beside code monkey.
>>7642268
You don't know what you want, code monkey.
Now that you are in college you believe that because it is easier for you to do code monkeying than to solve hard problems in mathematics but think about your future.
Do you really want to be, for the rest of your life, programmer #571 in big company #891 working videogame #1027?
Do you really want to do no more than read documentation to find the functions that do the thing your boss wants?
When you become an adult and you become a professional you will start appreciating hard problems because you will already be trained to do them. Instead of calling them hard problems you will call them interesting problems.
But with your view I think that you will forever be a code monkey. Even a high school kid knows that he should not end up doing monkey work. If you are a college kid that still has not figured this out then you are already doomed to be a monkey for the rest of your life.
Wait, what's that sound?
Oh, that's your boss telling you that you can't leave the office because release date is in a week and crunch time is mandatory for the monkeys.
>>7642292
I'm just studying cs to please my parents. After I get a job and move out, I'll eventually kill myself anyway so I don't really care where I end up.
>>7642292
>When you become an adult and you become a professional you will start appreciating hard problems because you will already be trained to do them. Instead of calling them hard problems you will call them interesting problems.
This is how I know this poster is over 30. A lot of code monkeys figure out by that time, math is essential to moving ahead in CS. But its too late for most. If you're in your 20s you have time to learn maths and doing a second degree or grad degree. Math becomes easier as you get older because you're more calm and "mature".
>>7642317
me2 lol
god i hate life...
>>7642340
So CS students are also edgy emos now?
>>7642586
When you grow up on the internet because your father is a wimp who was never there to teach you anything and your mother didn't care about you, you are bound to end this way. At least, thanks to 4chan, we are only edgy on the internet on anonymous boards where others won't remember.
>>7642653
dude.... are u me?
>>7642758
Maybe I am.
>>7639624
>tfw when you have to take 1.5 years out of 3 years of math to get your CS degree in my uni
Based af senpai desu
>>7642793
I'm so envious of your 300k starting as a math graduate.
>>7642793
Every degree should be at least 50% math desu
Even more for highly statistical ones like econ and sociology
if you are studying computer science and you are not needing shit loads of math then you are doing it fucking wrong.
The most stuff you do in cs are isomorphisms to mathematical objects for e.g. the sum symbol is basically the same as a for loop. and so on.
>>7643687
what are you studying and how succesfully are you doing it?
>>7640988
Unless it's a mobile/facebook game company, then no. I've worked at AAA places. If you don't have a bachelors in CS, CompEng, SoftEng, Math or Phys or don't have extensive experience in the industry, you're unlikely to get a job. I could get the point if you were writing things in unity or or something where performance and a low memory footprint isn't extremely important. (Yes, even on next-gen memory is budgeted extremely tightly in big games). And good luck becoming proficient in C++ in a month.
>>7640992
Where are you that CS majors are getting less than 64k? Are you in Europe or something?
