Why don't patients get addicted to opiates like heroin used in hospitals as pain relievers the same way a regular user would?
Neuroscientist here. I'm on my phone right now, so I'll keep it short. It has to do with their general wellbeing. A bunch of experiments on mice showed a lack of addiction when their environment was stimulating. Other mice developed addiction when confined to a cage lacking in stimulation. The same effect has been observed in humans, people develop addiction when they "need" the drug for stimulation. Obviously I missed a bunch of details here, but that's the general idea
I think they do sometimes. But seeing as it would be a serious liability the doctors must take steps to avoid it. Environment and the way a drug is administered could be important too. A person compartmentalizes things that happen in the hospital, you know? The habit of finding the drug yourself and injecting it yourself requires an almost seperate conditioning process.
>>7637096
Okay you're kidding me if you don't know this.
Most commoners wouldn't but /sci/, I am ashamed.
Addiction is much less of a chemical attraction and more of a mental issue.
It all depends on the conditions of how and where the drug was used.
>>7637096
They do get addicted. People who have loving families get addicted to painkillers all the time. Stop watching retarded popsci videos on youtube you gullible faggot.
https://www.ted.com/talks/johann_hari_everything_you_think_you_know_about_addiction_is_wrong?language=en
>>7637153
>Addiction is much less of a chemical attraction and more of a mental issue
But even mental issues are just chemicals in the brain, what the fuck are you talking about.
>>7637096
They do though
>t. Somebody going through withdrawals from prescribed painkillers
This is a test.
[eqn]
\sqrt{a + n} + z
[/eqn]
>>7637096
>Why don't patients get addicted to opiates like heroin used in hospitals as pain relievers the same way a regular user would?
They do every now and then. But slow acting and slow release opioids give less pleasure "kick" so the addictive potential is lower.
>>7637153
Physical addiction has a metabolic pathway that involves neurotransmitters and receptors specific to the type of substance causing the addiction. If you have the receptors, you will develop the addiction. Period.
So you can take your "addiction is subjective" bullshit to /x/ you fucking quack, I could get you, your dog, and your grandmother addicted to heroin under ANY circumstances so long as you simply take the drug for a moderate period of time.
>>7637096
Pharmacological opiate addiction is a major problem you fucking retard.
>>7637096
It's administered in a controlled manner. Street junkies take insane amounts far more often. Even so people still get addicted
>>7637103
Its correct. Like how during the vietnam war, many soldiers were addicted to heroin. Heroin is a great passtime when you could die any minute. The US was worried there would be an onslaught of returning veterans addicted to heroin, but nearly all of the soldiers that came home returned to somewhat normal lives and never even had withdrawals.
>>7637103
>Neuroscientist here.
>I'm on my phone right now, so I'll keep it short.
>>7637103
Does that mean that smart people get addicted easier? Since smart people tend to be bored very quickly.
>>7637715
Kek
>>7637715
what?
I was using my phone on the train in to London, about to go underground
Or is this some pleb tier meme?
>>7637740
Maybe. Go search google scholar for it.
>>7637180
Experimental evidence contradicts that, cunt.
>>7637096
They do. My grandma got addicted to morphine while in treatment for ribs she broke after fell.
It's sad as fuck.
>>7637180
Lets put it this way, every person in the USA who is given a hip transplant is given clinical grade heroin for the duration of their post op visit in the hospital until they are released.
These people wont even experience withdrawal symptoms when they leave. Im sure there are outliers, but at least 95% wont.
Addiction is most related to the chemical, their knowledge of the chemical and the individuals social environment
>>7637096
a large portion of heroin addicts are people who were prescribed opiates due to injury, became addicted, and turned to heroin when the opiates stopped being supplied
>>7637740
>Smart people tend to be bored very quickly
I wouldn't say that's the case. A lot of physiological factors are thought to potentiate a tendency towards boredom (though it's often more meaningfully framed through psychology), but I wouldn't that correlates with intelligence.
It's relative. Everyone who gets bored does so for various reasons and in certain contexts.
>>7638207
You know how people can get addicted to cigarettes and they get that oral fixation.
Same phenomena, different method.
Just like how stoners get addicted to the ritual of preparing weed. The substance is not addictive, but the habit of rolling up a blunt and smoking it becomes a fixation.
>>7638226
Is this bro science, or do you have a journal source for this claim?
>>7638228
Believe it or not, i used to smoke cigarettes. I went to group psychology sessions with other smokers and most of us quit.
This is what was explained to me.
>ITT: bunch of retards think they're experts on addiction because they watched that popsci video thats been passing around facebook
I mean some of you are literally parroting it word-for-word
thats just pathetic
>>7638248
Okay. I could go to a chemistry class and get taught the Bohr model of atoms. But just because I'm taught it, does not mean it is correct
>>7638257
There is a video going around on it? Fuck. Now I look like a pop sci pleb
>>7638264
>>7638265
https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=ao8L-0nSYzg
this has been going around my facebook feed
suddenly everyone feels like they're smarter than hundreds of doctors, psychiatrists, opiate users, because they watched this sensationalist video
I mean how can you even take something seriously with the title
>EVERYTHING U KNO ABOUT _______ IS WRONG !!!!!!
some of the posts in this thread are word-for-word out of the video
fucking morons. people get addicted to prescription opiates each year, especially in the USA where they don't even use heroin in medical context. and to think you can compare recreational use to therapeutic use is beyond ridiculous
>>7638259
I dont know how to link a pdf on mobile.
Bottom page of search
https://scholar.google.com/scholar?hl=en&q=cigarettes+oral+fixation&btnG=&as_sdt=1%2C10&as_sdtp=
Its a good read, shows why ecigs are more successful than patches and lozenges. Its the "ritual" or the method of ingestion that people fixate upon that strengthens the addiction.
>>7638204
>Addiction is most related to the chemical, their knowledge of the chemical and the individuals social environment
I'd say this is most correct. If you want to frame it in terms of "addiction", then it's less about the properties of the compound itself, and more about the state of the system it's interacting with as a whole. When people talk about this they often confuse physical "dependence", an example of which would be ethanol, opiates, or benzodiazepines, with "addiction", which is craving and repeated excessive use.
>>7638278
>>7638278
I was going on what my professors told me and my class mates shared with me back when I was studying the neurobiology of addiction
I suppose I must have seen it or had someone describe that video to me recently, and so it stuck around as the quickest explanation.
I remember reading this that my old class mate sent me about a year ago that summarises it
this was me >>7637103
>>7638281
Well smoking an e-cig is also faster administration of nicotine than patches or lozenges, so it's not a fair comparison. You haven't accounted for the confounder, speed of absorption
>>7638297
Just read the article, because people lower the doses until tgeres no nicotine whatsoever and they continue to vape until the fun is gone.
>>7638290
>knowledge of the chemical
Is this know what it does or know its present?
Could someone get addicted to heroin if some dealer sprinkles a little bit into someones pot over a long period of time?
>>7638329
Ahh okay. I will read it then. I apologise if it turns out you were correct
>>7638334
They would get addicted to weed, as that's what they come to associate the desired effect with. If they were to find out it was heroin, like after any different weed didn't hit the same or if they'd done heroin, they could switch. Lastly, they could simply never become addicted to begin with.
Addiction is a product of knowing how a compound works and what it does for you. Through that sense of utility, people can become attached. It's knowing how to get the feeling again that does it, and having reasons you don't want to be sober.
Ex heroin addict here.
From my understanding, people prescribed opiates still become physically addicted (just like any junkie) but they won't have the psychological addiction to go with it.
A junkie gets high to relieve depression and chase euphoria, while a legit pain patient will only deal with the physical aspects of addiction.
Also keep in mind that generally addicts use way more than most pain patients. An addict going through $200 of IV heroin a day is consuming far more opiates than some guy who takes six percocets a day for his back.
>>7638335
Dont appologize, its 4chan
>>7638341
Cool thats what i was thinking he meant too
>>7638342
>while a legit pain patient will only deal with the physical aspects of addiction.
I have a chronic pain condition. While what you said can be true, there are many exceptions. If anything, chronic pain or other health problems can heavily predispose someone towards addiction. Whether it's to escape or manage the pain, to escape life, to escape part of yourself, or just simply to be functional. The biggest fear is knowing you're artificially limited and not wanting every single situation in your life to result in failure or subpar outcomes.[
Drugs are the proxy by which one can augment, if not outright change their experience. That's what keeps you going. "I just have this one thing I gotta get done.." "Maybe if I, just for today, rely on something." "I'll just get real trashed today, and then tomorrow, is when I'll really get started. With a clear mind." Yeah, right. Trying to keep yourself in peak condition and avoiding dysfunction changes you, and is apt to lead to addiction-like behavior.
>>7638329
The study doesn't claim they reduce intake of nicotine. Just the number of times they smoked. They could get the same amount of nicotine in one smoke that hey would get from the equivalent number of cigarettes.
Regardless, I don't particularly care about smoking beyond it's apparent usefulness in offsetting Alzheimer's so either one of us could be correct, I just can't be bothered to talk about a topic which doesn't deserve deep though such as smoking. If I really cared about smokers I would recommend snus, much lower chance of related disease, and sufficiently similar in effect. If someone wants to smoke because it's part of their identity or it's a habit, rather than take snus, they need to go see a psychotherapist or cognitive behavioural therapist.
>>7638354
You're definitely right, I didn't mean to make my statement sound so inclusive, I just meant in general.
I've known tons of legit pain patients who had horrible addictions. One friend had a disease that required him to take opiates daily for the past 15 years. He was completely fine all that time, until one day a friend talked him into crushing his pills and snorting them. Once his brain learned to use the drugs to seek happiness, he essentially flipped a switch that he couldn't shut back off. He was shooting heroin within a year.
>>7638359
I mean Swedish Snus by the way. Not bullshit snus knock offs.
They do! And here's Tom with the weather
speaking as an opiate addict myself and knowing tonnes of addicts
firstly, patients are well known to get physically addicted
but most importantly, the people who seek out heroin on the streets are not the same sort of 'general' people that are in hospital
people on the streets who seek heroin are FAR more likely than hospital fags to have depression mostly, or other kinds of mental 'malaise'
I know in my case at least, I went to heroin due to depression (diagnosed). and tonnes I've people I've known and met are the exact same way
I would bet if instead of general people in the hospital you instead looked at people coming from psych wards due to some sort of accident and getting opiates there would be a far higer addiction rate than as seen in the general hospital rates
basically it comes down to depression
normal people don't seek out heroin, and even if they did they're probably couldn't even find it because they don't associte with heroin dealers/users
tl;d
>>7638228
used to use speed and coke a lot years ago
the idea and thrill of preparing lines and snorting them itself is addicting and fun, not just the drugs. the ritual associates with the high
>>7637096
>opiates like heroin used in hospitals
wat
>>7638935
Google "diacetylmorphine".
>>7638935
Heroin is pretty much the exact same thing as commonly prescribed opiates of similar strength (oxycodone, hydromorphone, oxymorphone), the kind of shit they give chronic pain patients and people with cancer and all that good stuff.
They have the exact same mechanism of action and if you're addicted to one you're essentially addicted to all of them.
The differences are very slight and indistinguishable to anyone who isn't a habitual user.
>>7638278
This.
First thoguht when I read this shitty thread.
/thread
>inb4 you can't /thread your own post.
/thread
