>Look up religion and suicide
>Christians believe it's self murder and you go to Hell for eternity
>Islam teaches the same thing
>Hinduism has you becoming a ghost wandering the land
>some other religions believe you will be reincarnated only to live an equally shitty life all over again and you'll never break the chain of shitty lives until you stop committing suicide
>Atheist think nothing happens, you go into nothingness
Why do normies do this to us? Everything except the Atheist beliefs of suicide sound like torture and I really don't like those odds. Normies are scaring me out of offing myself when everyone would be better off without my NEET ass. Fucking normies
>>29986498
>'normies, normies, normies'
kys, loser
you already have a religion
normies are the devil
self-pity is god
follow another one
>>29986518
>>29986530
fuckin normies
where's the handle on this toilet of a website so i can flush you away
>>29986518
>kys, loser
I would but it's a gamble, who the fuck wants to end up in hell, as a ghost or even worse, repeating the same shitty life over and over?
>>29986498
Did you read about the Jewish view of suicide/hell? They think that hell is only temporary, so that if you hurt others you'll feel what you did to them so you can fully appreciate Heaven afterwards. Nobody goes to hell for eternity.
You should recognize that suicide will harm other people, they'll potentially be traumatized finding your body, wondering if they could've helped, and knowledge of people committing suicide potentially makes more people suicidal.
If you're in serious pain and can't take it anymore, you'll probably be forgiven. But as long as you understand that you'll potentially harm other people by doing so, and still think it's the right choice. Nobody (logical) would condemn a person with cancer who is in the worst pain imaginable for ending their life.Read about Judaism (and other religions too, as history/culture) for the emotional/spiritual side and transhumanism for the scientific/logical side of the same coin. Immortality, resurrection, and turning the universe into Heaven through science and technology
>>29986498
Religions were the forms of mass control and social indoctrination while people were still semi primitives that were used to murder and rape on a daily basis. They believed the gods were real, that they were sanding them droughts and storms when they were mad and etc, this was all formed so they would serve the form of government and be obedient. Killing yourself is not useful to your ruler, he wants you to produce for him. Unless you are threatening him somehow, which the average pleb can't, you need to work so the society can function. No one cares if you actually believe it, what you think, but others need to feel free to shame you if you are not obedient and be discouraged to follow your example. Once it was religion claiming you were a sinner and would go to hell, now it's facebook and people saying how the people around you will suffer more knowing you killed yourself, which is even more hilarious than the fairy tales in the abrahamic religions.
Humans are just nasty like that.
>>29986617
this ahistorical bullshit
if religions are methods of social control, why do they most often seem to arise against and in direct conflict with the ruling authorities or status quo
>>29986599
That actually doesn't sound so bad compared to the other religions. I could live with something like that, how do they view non Jews and heaven?
>>29986617
I can't wrap my mind around that concept? So many people seemed shocked, shocked that someone who is constantly alone, always talking about suicide and their depression would go ahead and kill themselves. Most people who are suicidal actually do seek help but most people simply don't give a shit until after the person has committed suicide. With friends like that, who could blame someone for an heroing?
>>29986694
morality isn't invented by common people
How come none of your shitniggers ever say "normalfag"? Is it too triggering for you? Do you have to dumb it down to something a fucking four year old would say? Jesus Christ, grow a fucking backbone you newfags.
>>29986659
ahahahahaha you're retarded
>>29986768
not my fault you're a a low info cuck regurgitating memes to be opinionated
>>29986768
>Buddha against Vedic priestly dominance
>Jesus Christ against Pharisee dominance
>Muhammad against mercantile dominance
>>29986659
>if religions are methods of social control, why do they most often seem to arise against and in direct conflict with the ruling authorities or status quo
Because they're usually lead by people trying to usurp power from the existing elite for themselves. Read some Machiavelli sometime for heaven's sake. There is NEVER a power vacuum left behind by a religiously motivated revolution. Never.
>>29986717
Normies is shorter and, to anyone that's not a newfag that's all excited about /pol/, more despective anyway. Everyone here is some kind of fag: buyfag, piratefag, stormfag, newfag. But normies... Fucking normies.
>>29986837
>read Machiavelli
>shit on by the religious society of his time for the immorality of the Prince
>apply early modern thinking to pre-modern mystical thinking
nice
what historical evidence do you have for the political motivations of Christ and the Buddha
>>29986717
this isn't b you fucking retard, we don't call everyone fags like you are an insecure, 13 year old closet homo
kys
>>29986881
>Buddha
>literally a prince and a member of the elite class
>Jesus
>no record of him actually having existed
>Paul's (and his friends) motive was probably to live a comfy life off the backs of some hebes
Religion is le opium of le masses. Le kys.
>>29986881
>shit on by the religious society of his time for the immorality of the Prince
Isn't this when the catholic church reached its most grotesque point? Yeah I'm sure they were real mad about the immorality of it all, totally sincere outrage.
>what historical evidence do you have for the political motivations of Christ and the Buddha
I don't care to speculate, but if a white horse with a brown mane gallops into a forest and twenty minutes later a white horse with a brown mane gallops out, it's not irrational to assume it's the same horse.
>>29986937
>the Gospels and the letters of the New Testament aren't records
>Josephus
>Titus
>Paul and the Apostles
>comfy lives
>all died horribly after spending years preaching to the underclasses
>Paul used to be a Pharisee
>why would he trade in a good position like that to become part of a perseucted religion
it's time to stop posting
>>29986819
Don't forget Jesus Christ against Roman dominance
>>29987000
that's literally wrong
>>29986498
Ghost sounds cool desu, just think of all the spooky shit you could do
>>29986937
>Jesus
>no record of him actually having existed
You wot mate
>>29986977
>I don't care to speculate, but if a white horse with a brown mane gallops into a forest and twenty minutes later a white horse with a brown mane gallops out, it's not irrational to assume it's the same horse.
What the fuck is this even supposed to mean?
>>29986985
>the Gospels of the New Testament
What happens to God being all powerful and never making mistakes? Plagerized stories from the Old Testaments with a twist to them, mostly, and the rest are completely fabricated.
Yeah, I doubt that's true. Do you have any proof to back that up, or is it just written in your uncredible bible? Not all religiuos founders are able to usurp the ruling class, so him dieing is not very much information.
The Jews, atleast, have their 3 million at Mt. Sinai. What do Christfags have? Some hebe telling them he saw someone who's, historically, never been proven to actually exist.
>>29986498
For some real spooks, watch this:
https://youtu.be/f-MjYqCE2cE
>>29987063
jdstone.org/cr/files/nohistoricalevidenceofjesus.html
No historian who lived around Jesus's time makes mention of him or anything he's done.
>Hinduism has you becoming a ghost wandering the land
This sounds fucking baller
>>29986518
This desu. "Normies" is a rebbit term. The non-rebbit term is "normalfags"
>>29986498
>Hinduism has you becoming a ghost wandering the land
this is pretty cool tbf normies are scared shitless of ghosts and you could watch naked qts
>>29987118
>What happens to God being all powerful and never making mistakes?
Nothing? What in the NT contradicts this?
>Do you have any proof to back that up, or is it just written in your uncredible bible?
The "Bible" isn't a cohesive document. The Gospels are just written accounts that were selected for preservation and considered divinely inspired in the early Church, they were not written as part of the "Bible".
>The Jews, atleast, have their 3 million at Mt. Sinai. What do Christfags have? Some hebe telling them he saw someone who's, historically, never been proven to actually exist.
More proof than Socrates. The only two sources we have for his existence are Plato and a character in a play from Aristophanes. Jesus was actually mentioned in Jewish and Roman accounts like Josephus and Titus, which you keep ignoring.
>Not all religiuos founders are able to usurp the ruling class, so him dieing is not very much information.
Nothing about Jesus' character or teaching implies a desire for worldly power, especially his willing submission to execution. If you doubt this then you are literally just making things up as you go along.
>>29987271
>>Hinduism has you becoming a ghost wandering the land
>This sounds fucking baller
I thought about this, but with free reign to wonder you will see a lot of stuff and eventually feel pretty cucked about having no agency in the happenings of the world you are subjected to.
>>29986498
>Atheist think nothing happens, you go into nothingness
So goat tier?
Also the religion I've just made up says that if you don't kill yourself you go to hell, so go ahead, kill yourself and you'll just vanish or even got o heaven if you kill yourself in under 5 minutes
>>29987293
>Nothing? What in the NT contradicts this?
There are plenty. What about all of the verses about hell? The OT and the Jews make no mention of a hell. If you're conflating sheol or Gehinnom, you're wrong. Both of the mentioned places are temporary (Gehinnom no less than 12 months) and seen as places of cleansing.
>the gospels are just written accounts
Uncredible written accounts from fellow cult members, sure. Where the written accounts of credible historians? Some of the things Jesus did and some of the things that were said to have happened (some king killing all baby boys born within the time Jesus was born) would've certainly been recorded had they actually taken place and yet, none were.
>le jews
I don't believe their mythology either, but still, ask any orthodox jew and he will tell you what his parents and grandparents told him: "Your ancestors heard God speak at Mt.Sinai."
What do Christfags say: "Paul wrote it down in this book. It's true :^] believe in it or you're going to burn for all eternity.
>Jesus power
Jesus didn't exist. Maybe Paul's motives were alturistic. We'll never know or find out what his motives were, but what we do know is that there's no historical evidence that affirms the existence of a Jesus of nazareth.
>Roman accounts
Source? Credible source?
>Socrates
>Plato
>Aristophanes
Sources that aren't just concidence and that actually prove what you say?
>Josephus and Titus
Learn me them. I'm not a theologist and I don't waste my time reading garbage mythology.
>>29987509
>There are plenty. What about all of the verses about hell? The OT and the Jews make no mention of a hell. If you're conflating sheol or Gehinnom, you're wrong. Both of the mentioned places are temporary (Gehinnom no less than 12 months) and seen as places of cleansing.
You missed the part where Jesus descends into Sheol and bridges the gap between man and the divine, allowing the conscious dead to join the Father in a new realm called Heaven. After this, Jesus makes the distinction between eternal life with God and eternal life separated from God, in Hell.
>Uncredible written accounts from fellow cult members, sure. Where the written accounts of credible historians? Some of the things Jesus did and some of the things that were said to have happened (some king killing all baby boys born within the time Jesus was born) would've certainly been recorded had they actually taken place and yet, none were.
We have very few surviving records from that particular time and place, even from 'credible historians', though again I stress that Josephus and Titus recorded Christ's existence.
To illustrate, our only source for the existence of a Roman prelate named Pontius Pilate in Jerusalem in the first century was the Gospels of the New Testament, Titus (source for Jesus) and Josephus (source for Jesus again) until modern archaeology uncovered a stone tablet from the era bearing his name.
>I don't believe their mythology either, but still, ask any orthodox jew and he will tell you what his parents and grandparents told him: "Your ancestors heard God speak at Mt.Sinai."
Is this meant to be more credible? What. That's like Chinese whispers.
But several written documents from the era from prominent historians and associates of Jesus are less credible than that? What are you smoking?
>Jesus didn't exist.
Almost all historians disagree with you.
>there's no historical evidence that affirms the existence of a Jesus of nazareth.
There is, you just don't like it.
>>29987509
https://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Josephus
https://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Titus
>Learn me them. I'm not a theologist and I don't waste my time reading garbage mythology.
Why debate something you proudly announce being ignorant about?
>>29987509
>give me a credible historian!!!
>Josephus who? Lmao no doubt some other myth sky fairy you stupid fundie
>I've done my research, though
>>29986498
they do that to try and get people to not kill themselves
>>29986595
It's only a gamble if you're so feeble minded that you believe in that stuff. Observe the world around you. Is there any evidence to suggest that anything happens after we die when what we observe is nothing?
normie is a normal fag term. in a niche game forum i heard some normalfag use it to anyone who didnt play the series (its a normalfag military game)
>>29987676
What? You're saying that because we only observe the world of the living when we're in the world of the living, that that's proof that there is nothing else?
>>29987689
It's almost like 4chan is a huge, really mainstream forum that influences other online forums and even the behavior of some day to day.
>>29987763
but now its anyone who has a niche hobby or interest in a certain game or even political believe like being red pilled makes them special and anyone else is a normie
>>29987795
That's pretty much exactly what everyone here does though anon. There's in reality not that much difference between most robots and normies personality wise, they just have different interests and political beliefs. If anything I'd say most people here are more judgemental and shitty than the average person.
because religions are false things setup by rich people to keep the poor man in slavery
i cant believe you didnt know this
>>29986498
>and I really don't like those odds
You mean Pascals wager?
Come on man, use your brain a little. Humans are no different to the rest of the animal kingdom. Do you really think every other life form has some sort of afterlife? No. Once you're dead, that's it. No more consciousness, like being asleep without dreaming. The problem is that there is no means to comprehend this, hence the rise of religions.
If you want to kill yourself you have to accept that once you die there is nothing else. It isn't something that thinking a lot about will help in understanding because living things cannot possibly understand what it is like to not be alive. If you are fine with giving up everything, do it.
>Normies are scaring me out of offing myself
No they aren't, you are. This is your brain trying to rationalise the fear of death.
>Fucking normies
This is literally the only issue an individual can have which is entirely personal. Other people don't matter. You're making excuses that help you feel better about your decision to continue living. Very few individuals legitimately do not want to be alive because it goes against everything out body does.
Get over yourself. I mean this: if you aren't content to keep on living but cannot get over the concept of death, you have to kill your ego.
>>29987834
The reverse of pascals wager is better.
Say one religion was more true than the others and if you picked the wrong religion , then the true religion would send you to HELL etc
but if you believed in no religions or just a creator as an agnostic, maybe you would be spared
There are too many religions to choose from and all of them say they are the right choice
Fun fact:
All abrahamic religions are derived from the Sumerian Gods
>>29987825
That makes absolutely no sense, religions are absolutely for attempting to help the poor to better themselves. Most charities in the west are vatican funded, and most of the vaticans money after maintenance goes to altruistic purposes.
>>29987879
>as an agnostic
This is cringeworthy. I wish people would look up what these fucking terms actually meant. Agnostic and athetism refer to two different things and are not mutually exclusive. One refers to knowledge and the other belief. There is no such thing as an "agnostic" in respect to the western concept of theism. You either hold the belief in the concept of theism, making you a theist, or you don't, making you not a theist, or an "atheist".
>All abrahamic religions are derived from the Sumerian Gods
No they aren't. I don't care what your personal beliefs are bullshit is bullshit regardless.
>>29987917
Vatican = Indulgences, pay to not go to hell
All dat gold.
Read some history.
Jesus = Rich winemaker
Budhha = prince
Hindu = prince
Jewish = Rich goat herder abraham (in those times)
What do I have to explain, white man?
>>29987953
Abraham came from the City of UR.
UR is a sumerian city with Sumerian Gods.
Elohim = plural for Gods
Quaballhah = tree of life, another sumerian creation
It's like you dont even read history
>>29986498
Just get a fucking gun and go on a chad slaughter or something. Fuck hell men its not hard to get killed, start living on the edge and die in action.
>>29987917
>religions are absolutely for attempting to help the poor to better themselves
kek no
>>29987978
>It's like you dont even read history
Here is the fun part: you are going to cite your sources.
>>29988004
The Enuma Elish
Go read it doubter!
>>29987963
>All dat gold.
You mean all the money that churches spend on funding charities internationally? And you realise everything in a church is free, right?
>Read some history.
Provide a source for your claims or fuck off, "educate yourself" isn't an argument.
>What do I have to explain, white man?
What does my race have to do with anything?
>>29988001
Explain why the Vatican spends nearly all of its money on funding charities to help the disadvantaged and poor then anon?
>>29986498
The Bible doesn't actually say much about suicide or what happens to people who do it . The belief that suicide makes you go to Hell started (I think) with the Catholic church.
>>29988051
The idea is that suicide is taking a life, which is a mortal sin assuming you do it with full understanding of the act.
Hence why the church believes that people who kill themselves as a result of mental illness aren't able to be held responsible for their sin, and don't go to hell. Though this means serious illness, not just being depressed for rational reasons.
>>29986498
it's not a gamble. you just die and rot. eventually people forget you n shit before they die too and the cycle continues. your consciousness is only a temporary byproduct of your brain and, like everything else, has no meaning or purpose whatsoever.
>>29988029
An ancient mythology?
Are you taking the piss?
>>29987963
Jesus was a poor carpenter.
>>29987978
Astro-theologists and some historians believe that most religions, through out history, have been based on an astrological event almost 10,000 years ago that looked like this:
https://youtu.be/0i3qyxjZlRY
>>29987730
>the world of the living
You're already a lost cause.
>>29988289
Care to explain how? "If you don't understand it already I can't explain it to you" is not an argument.
>>29988310
he's just upset that you undermined his reasoning for a materialist worldview
>>29986659
>What is all of medieval Europe
>What is all of Asia until very recently
Isn't it weird that the king/emperor seems to always be personally chosen by god to lead his people?
>>29988873
It's almost like that's people twisting religion to support their power. The only figure of power that should be considered to be chosen by God is the Pope, and even then he's just a man.
>>29988873
No? It's just how power structures establish legitimacy according to the standards of their society, exactly the same way the modern West considers democratically elected governments legitimate.
>>29988902
>implying you can ever twist religion
A religion is compromised of the beliefs of the people that follow it. If religions were independent of actual people they would have all remain unchanged since conception which is not true for any religion.
>>29988919
>how power structures establish legitimacy according to the standards of their society
Welcome to the root of all religion.
>>29988997
and all morality and ideas too, then?
>>29989029
I think that's too far because there are certain principles that benefit humans evolutionarily. I think that it's likely that some of those principles have been translated into morals almost universally in humanity.
>Cooperation to a degree
>Sharing resources with family members
>Prioritizing a degree of long term planning
>>29988965
>A religion is compromised of the beliefs of the people that follow it
No. A religion is defined by it's writings and its gospel. Not whatever people choose to believe. The only people who can change what's considered canon are the members of the upper echelon of the church, and even then, not anything apostolic.
You're intentionally changing what I said though. Sure, the teachings evolve to some degree (though not completely. The church is against gay marriage despite societal pressures), but that doesn't mean some retard king going "My rule is valid because God says so" is actually in keeping with the teachings of the church. The only biblical quotes about this were clearly referring to particular rulers of Israel, not of every single ruler. Some retard king twisting this so he doesn't get murdered doesn't mean it's Christian teachings.
>>29989135
>A religion is defined by it's writings and its gospel.
Which are selectively passed down and prioritized by humans. There is a reason that every major religion has loose text for almost every situation: so that it's followers can freely interpret it as they choose.
>Some retard king twisting this so he doesn't get murdered doesn't mean it's Christian teachings.
If the majority of devoted Christians believed this and practiced this at the time who are YOU to speak for their interpretation of gods word?
>>29989249
>There is a reason that every major religion has loose text for almost every situation: so that it's followers can freely interpret it as they choose.
complete bs
'free interpretation' of morality is anathema to most major religions, and has been fought against
things like murder, abortion, sexual immorality, even lying, are all condemned absolutely in catholicism
>>29989249
>Which are selectively passed down and prioritized by humans. There is a reason that every major religion has loose text for almost every situation: so that it's followers can freely interpret it as they choose
Can you support this? Our copies of the OT and NT are pretty much the exact same as the ancient ones we see, short of a few translation differences, but that's not a major change.
>If the majority of devoted Christians believed this and practiced this at the time who are YOU to speak for their interpretation of gods word?
I'm not. I'm speaking about the official interpretation of this text by the Vatican. Do you really think that people believe that the president is a divine ruler? It's the same shit. The king going "I'm appointed by God" and the average illiterate peasant that doesn't even own a bible or have ever read it believing that doesn't make it true. There is no interpretation of gods word, it's literally just someone making shit up and uneducated people believing it.
Also, what >>29989334 said is absolutely true. There is no real room for interpretation in Catholicism when it comes to major tenets, the most you get is "Is this a mortal sin, or simply frowned upon".
>>29989358
Also, I feel it's important to add that there's a difference between God allowing those to rule, and ordaining them. God allowed Hitler, Stalin and even the pharaoh of Egypt that prosecuted Moses and his people to rule, but they weren't ordained or approved of.
You could argue that there's a point to be made that evil men being allowed to rule is a method for testing followers, and giving them reason to follow the true path. If you take, for examples Romans 13:1 out of context however, it does support what you're saying, which is what the Kings did in your example. But then you have quotes like
Isaiah 60:12
>For the nation and kingdom that will not serve you shall perish; those nations shall be utterly laid waste
Matthew 28:18-19
>And Jesus came and said to them, All authority in heaven and on earth has been given to me. Go therefore and make disciples of all nations, baptizing them in the name of the Father and of the Son and of the Holy Spirit,
This is particularly important, as it shows that the authority of God is by far more important than those of your King. The nations were to be made disciples.
Matthew 4:10
>Then Jesus said to him, Be gone, Satan! For it is written, You shall worship the Lord your God and him only shall you serve.
Acts 5:29
>But Peter and the apostles answered, We must obey God rather than men.
All these show that kings are not divine authorities. They're just men. And we should obey God, not men.
Also, as to >>29987825
I haven't given this much thought, but just from some cursory research, this quote proves you wrong.
Matthew 6:24
>No one can serve two masters, for either he will hate the one and love the other, or he will be devoted to the one and despise the other. You cannot serve God and money.
Does this sound like a quote from a religion that is trying to support the rich to keep the poor poor?
>>29989358
>I'm speaking about the official interpretation of this text by the Vatican.
>No real room for interpretation in Catholicism
Bare in mind that this concept was a major point of contention historically. The reformation wars were all about whether liberty should be allowed in religious interpretation. So while now Catholicism is relatively ridged that is not the case for other major religions.
>>29989839
>I'm speaking about the official interpretation of this text by the Vatican.
>No real room for interpretation in Catholicism
Yes, there is no contradiction there. What the vatican, the only group with the authority to state what is considered Canon states that something is a tenet of the religion, it is. You can't just ignore stuff like that and go "I interpret it differently".
>Bare in mind that this concept was a major point of contention historically. The reformation wars were all about whether liberty should be allowed in religious interpretation. So while now Catholicism is relatively ridged that is not the case for other major religions.
We're not talking about Protestants. We're talking about only real form of Christianity with an organised center instead of a million different churches that anyone with the money and charisma can start.
>A bunch of made up story books and some fedora tippers don't tell me the afterlife will be full of roses and rainbows if I turn the inside of my skull into a slushie
>FUCKING NORMIES REEEEEEEEEEEEE
no bro, it's your fault for trying to find solace in the scribbles of insane retards
either your life is bad enough you want to kill yourself or you're a little pussy that doesn't want to face his problems
>>29989864
>only real form of Christianity
Uh, well then, guess there is not much point discussing these things with a zealot.
>>29989931
Why not read the rest of my post, instead of taking one part out of context? They're all forms of Christianity, but lack an organised center that gives them some sort of regulation. My "only real form" comment was speaking to groups that are really just cults trying to make money in the name of God, like the hillsong churches.
