Is free will true? or are we destined for failure no matter how hard we try?
was he right, or wrong?
No. Sometimes trying isn't enough. And people who try much less will get what you want just because they got lucky.
It's bad karma, negative energy, or just a bad luck.
>>29873074
Neji was absolutely right and Naruto proved, he was literally the son of the Hokage, destined to become one
The universe is deterministic and if it doesn't seem that way it's just because it's affected by something too small to detect or outside the scope of our scientific knowledge.
>>29873074
There's no way of knowing so it doesn't matter. Seriously, if you knew the answer it wouldn't change your brain anyway. Don't waste your time on philosophical dead ends. Plato already did most of the dank shit in that field 2300 years ago
>Is free will true?
What do you mean when you say "free will"? People use the term in different ways.
>or are we destined for failure no matter how hard we try?
Some people will fail despite trying very hard, and others will take it easy and succeed.
Trying hard isn't enough to guarantee success and in some cases it can actually prevent it.
>>29873103
>>29873074
On top of that Lee who by far worked the hardest while at a sever disadvantage lost to Gara who was given his powers. Natural gifts and talents trumps all else
>>29873109
This seems to be the most argument proof idea for determinism
>>29873074
I don't know what "he" you're referring to but you shouldn't be pondering philosophy from the starting point of some Chinese cartoon shit anyway.
What science tells us is that everything is quantifiable, literally everything, including a person's thoughts and emotions. If everything has a physical basis, then it can be predicted, because physical stuff has a predictable, deterministic nature. Q.E.D. If someone's arguing in favor of free will, they have to point to something in the human brain which allows us to freely determine our own thoughts in an unpredictable way that doesn't jive with physical matter.
Free will being a delusion is a bad excuse for not trying your hardest.
>>29873103
That part killed me.
"I break the curse and with believe I can become hokage!"
Yay bitch, you were born with Ashura's chakra, your father was hokage, his sensei was legendary sannin, his sensei was hokage, his sensei was also hokage, his brother was fucking hokage who also had Ashura's chakra. You were also a child of prophecy and had kyuubi sealed in yourself.
Poor Uchihas never got anything. I hate stupid Uchihas, but even I must say that Konoha leaders fucked them up everytime.
And that's how real life works.
>>29873121
>There's no way of knowing so it doesn't matter.
Actually, if you're talking about libertarian free will we can use logic to deduce that It's an incoherent concept.
https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=joanVUoXY0s
>Seriously, if you knew the answer it wouldn't change your brain anyway.
Actually it would. My thought patterns have been significantly different since I stopped pretending to believe in free will (generally speaking), and they also changed when I went from "free will is real" to the "free will doesn't exist but I should pretend it does" phase.
It's like with God. Believing in God can change how you think versus times when you don't believe in God.
>>29873093
There is always chance of something bad happening but that doesnt mean trying isnt enough.
Throw enough shit at the wall and some of it will stick. Its simple as that.
If you give up after one failure then it isnt bad luck. Its your own ineptness
>>29873171
>chinese
but anime is japanese :I
>>29873192
>Throw enough shit at the wall and some of it will stick. Its simple as that.
It's not as simple as that; life is much more complicated and nuanced.
Sometimes you can do everything right on your end but what you tried to accomplish can end up destroying your whole future. It happens.
It might not be something to dwell on constantly, but it IS an aspect of reality and it's something that one probably should keep in mind.
>>29873245
>Sometimes you can do everything right on your end but what you tried to accomplish can end up destroying your whole future. It happens.
examples?
>>29873192
But what if other people have everything easier. They don't try that hard but they get it because they just didn't have anything bad happening. And it happens a few times.
Of course, giving up is not an answer, but it will make you furious and more insecure anyway.
>>29873259
This isn't a perfect example, but
http://www.2arms1head.com/
I can't say "he did everything right on his end" becausehe did fuck up by hitting the donkey.But he, being the product of his genetics and conditioning, ontologically speaking could not have of his own accord avoided thedonkey. His brain simply did not have the necessary conditioning to deal withdonkeys on the road in this particular overarching context.
But had he simply not triedto ride from Seattle to Argentina, he would have better off. He never would havehit the donkey and become a paraplegic. Trying to achieve this goal of his completely ruined his life. It was not worth it.
Does that mean no one should ever try to achieve their goals? Of course not. But it does mean that sometimes you can try your best and still wind up much worse off than if you had just not even tried.
Trying isn't ALWAYS good. Our culture tells us it is, and the optimism bias tells us it is, but objectively speaking it isn't.
>>29873425
Once I tried to apply for a very good school. I got into oral exams which was pretty big. I tried, some will say.
But they totally made me feel worthless. I wasn't accepted and made fool of myself and my self esteem got lower and I felt like a shit person.
>>29873508
I'm sorry to hear that happened. But look on the bright side--such a thing isn't nearly as bad as what happened to the poor author of the above autobiography. Not that I expect knowing of his suffering will make you feel better.
It's bad that you didn't get accepted, but it's almost certainly not in and of itself life-destroyingly bad.
And you're not a shit person just for not getting into that school. Don't be so hard on yourself anon.
Its funny how people who have it good can't "look down" and see the unfortunate people who don't have it nearly as good, but the people who have it bad can clearly see what its like up there where it's better.
Someone who can't understand that life is a series of dice rolls that you don't even get to throw, had only good rolls and never had to question the dice.
>>29873932
Great point.
I'd like to add that if the universe is fundamentally deterministic, it's not even like a dice game, whether you have a good life or a bad one...more like the classic version of Candyland, where the winner and losers are already determined by the way the cards are stacked at the start.
You can "feel" like you're "playing" but you're really just following the predetermined chain to the inevitable outcome. Old-school Candyland is hardly even a "game" per se.
Of course, if you just quit the game before it ends, it could be the case that you actually could have been predetermined to be the winner by the way the cards were stacked, but you didn't get that far because you didn't see it through.
Then again if you're playing the deterministic version of Candyland in a deterministic universe, then the "cards" in your brain and the "decisions" they compel are just as stacked and predetermined as the Candyland cards).
Related:
http://existentialcomics.com/comic/58
>>29873425
that shits saddening to read.
goddamn dude
>>29873508
thats just failure. nothing to do with destiny
>>29873425
>http://www.2arms1head.com/
jesus christ, this guy has more of an excuse to be a robot more than you lazy fucks
>>29875021
even lazyness comes inside the genes chad
>>29875078
>muh genes
grow a fucking spine m8
>>29875328
not gonna be your society slave normie
>>29875393
its a destiny you were made for. obey it fatalist cuck
>Getting your world views from anime made for the lowest common denominator
Off yourselves
>>29875493
this really.
neji wasn't even that good of a character, gets rekt by a tree
>>29873074
Neji was right all along.
Take his teacher, Might Guy. He's the epitome of hardwork; couldn't do anything but taijutsu (apart from one summoning but ignore that shit), trained every day of his life and mastered the 8 Gates to absolute perfection.
Now look at Madara. He was born into the one of the strongest clans and as a descendant of Indra, he was capable of obtaining the Sharingan, then the Mangekyou Sharingan, then the Eternal Mangekyou Sharingan, the Rinnegan and finally the Sharingan Rinnegan which was his third eye. With these abilities he had a whole range of jutsus he could use varying from a simple fireball to natural chakra absorption.
pic related is the result of both extremes clashing. Madara le regenerating himself and Guy on the ground post 8-gates who is about to die and got his leg eternally fucked.
I have never seen a sound argument for the existence of libertarian free will.
I don't think free will is true. Maybe the small things can be changed but the grand scheme of things is predefined. Sure, some argue that before you're born, you choose your own adventure, meaning free will does exist, but what if "choosing" the adventure is actually part of a bigger plan (of God, Source, whatever else you want to call it)?
>>29873074
When this year began, I tried to have a more positive outlook on life but only got shat on even more by fate.
>>29873259
This reminds me of a story of an anon who tried to get into a tv commercial. He did everything as well as he could, but didn't succeed. Eventually he didn't make it to the studio and the company blacklisted him. In the end, anon decided to stay NEET. Pic related. It's the story.
>>29876840
Man people agree on this notion, but many use the redefinition of free will which entails that one can make rational choices.
>>29877753
>Sure, some argue that before you're born, you choose your own adventure, meaning free will does exist...
No, even if you could pick your parents before you were born, that wouldn't give you libertarian free will, because your picking those parents would either be the product of prior causes, or it would be up to randomness.
Neither of those gives you fundamental responsibility for the circumstances of your birth.
Libertarian free will is a gosh-darned spook.
>>29879195
Yeah, but very few of them are intellectually honest that when they say free will exists, they're REALLY not talking about libertarian free will, and they want everyone to know that libertarian free will is nonexistent and all your "rational decisions" are either the product of prior causes you didn't choose or possibly filtered-up effects of supposed quantum randomness.
They're fuzzy about that.
I already gave a really good answer to this same thread weeks ago, I don't want to type it all out again but just look up "Hard Determinism" that's what Neji was.
You can easily turn this into a philosophical debate and what is the nature of free-will, some do not believe free-will even exists and Neji was one of them. Neji believed everything was pre-determined by fate or some unforeseen force, he also believed everything was determined by your birth and the type of family you you were born into, also genetics play a role in this as well.
