Daily reminder that it's not the rich and poor, or blacks and whites that are the problem. The problem is the collectivists who seek to take away your individual liberties and control the free market.
>>29837227
In my heart I'm a libertarian or Jeffersonian Agrarian, but unfortunately the world needs either a low population or an endless frontier for that to work.
Barring that I think distributism or Georgian libertarianism would be best.
>>29837227
All of you Libertarians are stupid fuck boys. The needs of the many outweighs the needs of the few.
>>29837281
>The needs of the many outweighs the needs of the few
Star Trek jew morals. Go home, nigger.
>>29837281
who decides what the needs of the many are
>>29837227
OP I like this thread but why make it on this board. r9k is inherently leftist little shits who think the world owes them everything.
>>29837227
>ayn rand
>not a retard and a capitalist cocksucking jew
Collectivism doesn't mean a loss of individual liberties, it just means a greater focus on the good of all mankind. If everyone's happy, you'd be happy. Get it through your thick skull you fucking semite.
>>29837227
Socially liberal/fiscally conservative master race reporting in
If you aren't a classical liberal then you're economically illiterate. Also the individual > society every time.
>>29837292
What the fuck could possibly be more jewish than libertarianism. Mises, Friedman, and Rothbard weren't goys.
>>29837292
Jews must be very charitable people then.
>>29837311
The many.
>>29837366
>Collectivism doesn't mean a loss of individual liberties
It absolutely does. Economic freedom is what allows us to pursue our own dreams and carve our own paths.
>>29837429
Karl Marx was a Jew, man.
>>29837227
He's gonna make it all better though.
>>29837437
Someone has to be in the trenches digging dirt and eating shit for nickels, and if it isn't you, you're running some kind of scam.
Economic liberty lets the most people run the most scams and so creates the biggest class of "happy people."
Completely free markets ultimately lead to people finding ways to exploit the system and create monopolies.
There HAS to be regulation, but not so much that it bottlenecks the flow of resources, money, and goods.
>>29837437
Yeah sure bud.
>have no capital to start out with
>can't "carve your own path" as you put it
It's a retarded cycle and leads nowhere. Ask any NEET on here if they can "carve a path" with a job they can actually hold.
libertarianism is ONLY supported by upper middle class and middle class people who have never gone without anything they wanted in their lives. remember that. for these people, the only thing keeping them from success is themselves so they blindly believe that this is true for anyone (after they got nice cars and clothes from daddy and mommy made sure they lived in a safe gated community with top school district). they have no idea how 90% of the country even lives their lives.
>>29837467
I don't see how this is an argument against what I said.
>posting Ayn Rand
>the woman who cucked her husband then got butthurt when her new bf cucked her with a young actress
>basically called him the 60's version of shitlord in a printed publication
>wanted to be a man more than anything
>loved it when an economist called her the most couageous man in America because they considered her a man and not a woman
>thinks smoking is super cool then died of lung cancer
Don't get me wrong, collectivism is shit and objectivism is better by far. But I couldn't take Atlas Shrugged seriously after realizing it was her Mary Sue self-insert fan fiction where she dreams of getting dominated by and then cucking her three ubermensch boyfriends.
>>29837487
Whoops, I misinterpreted and thought you said the opposite for some reason. My bad.
>>29837227
I see you through the screen Porky
An entirely free-market with no government cannot work, it is not safe for the people, and it protects less of the people's freedoms than an actual working government.
Government needs to do government things, the issues are with federal overreach into state issues (gay marriage) and a lack of keeping the corporations and the government separate.
We must not only keep church and state separate, but also corporate and state.
>>29837583
>We must not only keep church and state separate, but also corporate and state.
This. This is the reason america's gonna fall. Each of our retarded politicians is in bed with large corporations and doesn't actually care about the individuals who work their asses off to keep their precious corporations afloat.
If unions became a big thing again, the entirety of the US economy would turn for the better.
>>29837488
Ayn Rand's nonfiction is much better, desu. It's so fucking refreshing and alien to read it after decades of postmodernist shit. The world really did die in the 60s.
>>29837227
Why do you think that freedom is inherently desirable, when freedom is what allows things like communism to spread in the first place?
>>29837723
being anti-Communist/fascist is a form of self-defense
>lolbertarians
>individualist
read stirner and wilde
>>29837311
((The many)) do
>>29837760
Not really even a response to what I said
>>29837392
This is literally you senpai
>ayn rand
>>29837763
hello property
>not being socially conservative and fiscally left wing
>>29837630
>muh unions
leftist cuck please go to reddit and never come back
>>29838368
>get cucked by your employer
>actively support the jewing of society
>call someone who genuinely cares about the well being of others, including you, a cuck
sounds like you're the cuck here, jewslut.
"oh please mr. steinberg, cum all over my dirty face with your hot load.... mmmm yeah, just like that" - you
>>29837392
>Socially liberal
>master race
You can only pick one anon
Yes it's me again
>>29838265
Why is Stirner so cute?
Is cuteness a spook?
>>29838431
I dunno. Post more stirners
>>29838265
>>29838431
I've read a bit about stirner, but what is the appeal exactly?
When you guys talk about spooks and such, what are you getting at?
What is basically the defining feature of his philosophical view of the world?
>>29838482
>I've read a bit about stirner, but what is the appeal exactly?
He is easy to make memes from
>When you guys talk about spooks and such, what are you getting at?
Things perceved to be real but aren't therefore are "ghosts"(spooks)
>What is basically the defining feature of his philosophical view of the world?
Fuck morality do what you want
>>29838531
yeah I started reading about egoism right after I made that post
I actually really like his philosophy, I've always had a skepticism to the things he refers to as "spooks" gonna have to read some more about this guy
>>29838566
His "Ego and its own" is pretty good, but if you are new to philosophy it is slightly difficult to understand. You should find plenty of PDFs/epubs of it.
>>29837227
Daily reminder that her ideas are pure bullshit, intended to create a jewish "capitalist" narrative to the west.
>>29838318
Thats what i believe in, and its pretty much actual leftism. But of course the right wing trolls will spam their retarded /pol/ memes, while not realising that liberal cucks have nothing to do with leftism and are just retarded. There are retarded people everywhere, what they call themselves really doesnt matter.
>>29838674
Modern liberalism is just the result of old leftist ideas propagated by people like Gramsci and th eFrankfurt school.
>>29838632
I'm not much of a serious reader, but I may look into it.
Most philosophy I know/understand comes from reading wikipedia articles, which I suppose someone here will find a reason to look down on me for, but I would say I know quite a bit more about philosophy than the average person (which isn't really saying much of anything either)
>>29838632
I've just read his wiki article, and from the first glance it seems we share some views. It's cool to know there's an actual philosopher that has a similar worldview as I do.
It does sound really edgy and all, anarchy always does, but honestly it makes no sense that there are concepts, rules and ideas that are considered "sacred" and must be followed. There are only people, and people made those rules. Why are rules made by some people universally accepted and forced upon others. Makes no sense really.
My general worldview was always something alongside "Don't do things that bring you harm or make you feel bad". Basically, I've always made it a rule to follow my "inner morality". For example, if I mastrubate to furry porn and it makes me feel bad afterwards, I take it as a sign I shouldn't do it and don't do it anymore.
>>29838318
I know you posted hitler, so you're aware, but you should have included nationalism somewhere in that post
that's the most important element
>>29838701
Why do you consider Gramsci as a basis for modern liberalism?
>>29838701
>Gramsci
>anything to do with identity politics, the New Left, and contemporary neoliberal globalism
wew lads
you're thinking of Marcuse
>>29838709
Good luck, I hope you do find time to read it.
>>29838714
I think you'll like him. I didn't start off like you did, however. I was very skeptical of egoism back when I was a classic liberal, but It does make sense.
But know that rejecting morality as a concept isn't equal to being a dick. Stirner himself said
" I love men, too, not merely individuals, but every one. But I love them with the consciousness of my egoism; I love them because love makes me happy, I love because loving is natural to me, it pleases me. I know no 'commandment of love'. I have a fellow-feeling with every feeling being, and their torment torments, their refreshment refreshes me too... [Ibidem, p. 258]""
>>29838714
after reading some things about him, his approach to anarchism is pretty well thought out and reasonable
work for self-interest, whether that be through altruism or selfishness.
I look at humans from a very biological perspective (ie, we're just animals with higher intellectual abilites) so I think altruism is absolutely profitable when you work to better your family/tribe/nation
in the end, his approach to humans I feel is honest.
In the end we're all just working for our own self-interest in some way. Most don't like to acknowledge this, but even altruistic actions reward you in some way or you wouldn't do them (ie, you care for someone/you feel happy/good when they're around)
>>29837227
>he unironically likes ayn rand
>>29838883
>liking ayn rand
>even ironically
nah, she's worse than dogshit
>>29838848
>>29838858
>" I love men, too, not merely individuals, but every one. But I love them with the consciousness of my egoism; I love them because love makes me happy, I love because loving is natural to me, it pleases me. I know no 'commandment of love'. I have a fellow-feeling with every feeling being, and their torment torments, their refreshment refreshes me too... [Ibidem, p. 258]""
This right here is exactly how I've felt for a long time now, it's amazing that someone actually wrote that down. I'm generally a kind and good person, but I am that way because it makes me feel happy. I don't do stuff I consider bad because they make me feel unhappy. However, as said in that quote, it's because of my intrinsic sense of moral (which normally is influenced by society, I feel he should've mentioned it), not some external rules and dogmas.
>>29838831
>>29838752
His idea of a cultural rather than economic revolution resulted in a leftist takeover of universities, resulting in modern liberalism.
>>29837281
I doubt the needs of the many involve segregation and discrimination against people based on race
>>29837227
Fuck off I played BioShock
The "free market" is only fun if you're the guy hoarding all the plasmids behind a personal army of Big Daddies
>>29837227
>hurr durr it's not the rich conspiring to turn you into a feudal serf
No, I'm pretty confident it's the rich.
>>29837463
>omg is that literallly hitler like omgomg omg someone should like stop him from kiling all the mexicans
kek
Bigger government is more prone to corruption and eventually will be corrupted by those with money. The only solution is to limit it's power. Capitalism is the best system we have until labour is full automated. Also social institutions in my opinion are inefficient, we would be better off redistributing the money that would be used on them directly to the people so that there is monetary incentive fuelling competition in the market rather than corrupt bureaucracies putting their own interests above the peoples.
Someone tell me why this is wrong
>>29837227
Getting rid of """""collectivists""""" won't solve the problem. People will still use the market to gain power and exploit others.
>>29837292
You're on a sinking ship. There's only one working lifeboat, with 50 people on it already. If one more person gets on it, it will sink and everyone on it will drown. Thus, is it morally acceptable for you to board the lifeboat?
>>29840210
Doesn't even have anything to do with morals, the last guy will drown either way and can't save himself in this scenario
But the correct answer is of course
>YES
t. europe
>>29840210
If I'm fucked either way then what does it matter? Might as well try.
>muh morals
Fuck off leftist kike
>>29840305
You're guaranteed to die either way, so what's the point of killing 50 more people in an ATTEMPT to survive that is guaranteed to fail?
>>29840378
There's no guarantee that the lifeboat will sink, maybe it might float, who knows. If I'm going to die either way I might as well try, what do I care about 50 other people I don't know.
>>29837227
man ayn rand was fucking gross. knowing how self satisfied she was just pisses me off.
>>29840408
you normies sure do get triggered by people you think you're better than being happy
>>29837448
Marx wasn't exactly a statist though. His idea of the end stage of Communism was a stateless society in which the means of production was owned collectively by the people. A lot of people assume Communism is an authoritarian ideology, because all existing Communist countries have gotten stuck in the "dictatorship of the proletariat" stage, which leads to people assuming Communism is just an extreme version of progressivism/democratic socialism.
>>29840408
I read all her stuff andfell in love with her. She will always be my 3D imaginary girlfriend.
>>29837227
I see no reason why one person should make more money while doing less work than another.
>>29837292
>Collectivism
>jew morals
You do realize national socialism is collectivist and that the jews are well known capitalists right?
>>29837227
Proper collectivism is the future. We must unite and pull together as one. All of us. Not just some of us for the betterment of a few others. All of us must pull together, with all of us and for all of us.
>>29840593
What if i don't want to be pulled down with you?
>Do you have any regard for personal choice at all?
>>29840707
You would be pulled up, you idiot. Pulled forward with the rest of us. Just find the best way you can contribute, however you can. Share what you can, take what you need.
Or leave civilisation. Live innawoods.
>>29837292
dont you fucking insult star trek you greasy piece of shit i swear to god i will eat your fucking cat
>>29840463
This. The communist utopia envisioned by Marx is actually highly individualistic. The idea was to create a society of automation and abundance so that everybody spends the majority of their time developing themselves and their talents freely. Marx's criticism of capitalism was centered on the lives of factory workers who were reduced to cogs in a profit-generating machine and had their individuality robbed from them.
>>29837486
same can be said about socialists and commies desu
>>29841114
sauce on that quote?
probably fake, but i like it.
