How can there be no creator, no beginning? You really expect me to just believe it all came from nothing.
>>29828435
Nobody expects you to believe anything.
You really expect me to just believe that one creator did it themselves? Obviously they needed a big team, and a lot of supplies.
>>29828435
if hypothetically there is a creator, why does that make anything meaningful or give anything purpose? its still just as fucked, i guess at least you'd have something to blame
>>29828435
ok let me put on my fedora,
you thinking that the big bang theory (i assume) is similar to your belief in that there is a beginning. according to the BB theory there is no beginning, the universe starting isn't the start of everything.
>>29828523
but there must have been something before the big bang, something must have produced it. Are you really telling me that it all came from nowhere?
Putting an imaginary creator there doesn't answer any questions. Then you could just say "you really expect me to just believe the creator came from nothing".
>Something can't come from nothing that's just fucking retarded there had to be a creator
"Well where did the creator come from"
>He was obviously always there retard
It could be something beyond what you can conceive.
>>29828582
>"you really expect me to just believe the creator came from nothing".
Well if a whole universe came from nothing, why is it hard to believe a creator came from nothing?
I think it would be pretty fucking cool if life really was just the result of perfect circumstances in the chaos of space
>>29828684
Because the creator is unnecessary. Its presence serves no function. It's like asking why it's hard to believe that there's a literal flying spaghetti monster.
>>29828684
That's the whole point both are equally plausible you can't say either god or the big bang came from nothing because it's not how things work. Every religious retard says
>"So you think a big bang just came out of everywhere and made everything lol how stupid xddd"
No one said anything about the origins of the singularity that preempted the big bang and no one could know the origins of that singularity we only know that it did exist and did explode at some time. Maybe God made the singularity or maybe it just always was and their is no god either way the whole "Came from nothing" thing is a weak argument from either side
>>29828705
If you were born with infinite powers, you'll create a living universe too, Anon-San
>>29828793
Why would a creator "be born with infinite powers"? Why would a creator exist at all? You are adding unnecessary complexity to your idea of the universe. The presence of such a creator is a much more complex contrivance than the mere presence of the universe.
>>29828435
I don't expect you to believe anything, one way or another.
That said, going from, "there is a creator," to, "There is a creator that cares about every single life in the universe, and has a plan for all of them," is quite the leap. How do you know that even IF there is a creator, it's not just a kid with an ant farm?
>>29828565
Perhaps there has always been something. Your creator was not created itself, was it? So why not the universe?
Believers in the creator are also believers in the good.
If you think the world is a battlefield where everyone fights for only their own well being, than it's hard for you to believe in god.
>>29828435
We could be part of one giant organism. The universe being like a ridiculously large cell generating small energy with matter (galaxies) hitting the sides or something in a very slow pace.
Seeing how insects move so fast maybe the life for this giant organism is pretty alright timed, as he's ridiculously big.
Maybe he's just a robot across other universe beings with galaxy cells, checking out their r9k.
>>29828845
A creator is outside of the laws of what it created, obviously
>>29828435
How can there be a creator before there was a beginning? What created the creator?
Christianity answers the question of who made God in the very first verse of the very first book, Genesis:
In the beginning, God created the heavens and the earth (Genesis 1:1)
This verse tells us that God was acting before time when He created the universe. Many other verses from the New Testament tell us that God was acting before time began, and so, He created time, along with the other dimensions of our universe:
No, we speak of God's secret wisdom, a wisdom that has been hidden and that God destined for our glory before time began. (1 Corinthians 2:7)
This grace was given us in Christ Jesus before the beginning of time (2 Timothy 1:9)
The hope of eternal life, which God... promised before the beginning of time (Titus 1:2)
To the only God our Savior, through Jesus Christ our Lord, be glory, majesty, dominion and authority, before all time and now and forever. Amen. (Jude 1:25)
http://www.godandscience.org/apologetics/who_created_god.html
>>29829068
Empty rhetoric. You are saying that the statement "isn't it absurd that X came from nothing" applies to the universe but not the imaginary creator, without any real reason. I think it is equally absurd in either case.
>>29829099
It's quoted from the site. I should have said that, this being /r9k/ and all.
>>29829099
Why couldn't the universe's appearance be 'in the beginning', then? Who is to say that the concept of time makes sense before the Big Bang?
No. No one actually says that (but creationists). The idea is that the universe simply wasn't created; which is both the simplest explanation, and the only explanation compatible with Newtonian physics and thermodynamics.
>>29829119
You are a human being, you create a machine, a little coffee cooking robot or something.
You can do things, your coffee machine robot can't do.
But it's not such a good example, because god can create life with a free will, to do good and do bad. He doesn't want us to do bad things, because he doesn't want that we hurt his creations.
He loves all his creation, that's why nothing of his creation should hurt the other.
>>29828435
Agnosticism is the only purely rational position. Every argument for atheism or theism will always be based on the assumption that God can be conceived of. Or in other words, that a finite mind that is part of the universe could have any accurate concept of something beyond the universe. Thus a purely rational person would have to be an agnostic.
Therefore I think that the only good reason to believe in God must be a personal reason. I.e. it must be reason based in subjective personal experience. This does not make the belief any less valid because if God really exists, then we should not expect to know how he would want to make himself known.
I think that belief in God is necessarily simply a choice. Either you want to be a person who believes in God or you don't. Faith is the combination and synthesis of belief and action.
>>29829191
Still empty rhetoric. Try again. Why can the creator come from nothing if the universe can't?
god created black people and you need to treat them with respect!
>>29829336
God created everything and you need to treat everything with respect.
>>29829250
I'm not him but you're an example of the unreflective individuals that constitute today's society. The concept of God is that of the greatest possible being. A being that is created would not be the greatest possible being, because the being that created it would be greater. Therefore, God was not created, he is eternal, i.e. the classical idea of God that Christians have always believed in.
I don't even believe in God, by the way.
Time itself only exists withing the world as perceived by humans, not within in the world itself (if you were to call what'd remain a world).
There needs to be no beginning, just as there will be no end to all of this.
You are here forever.
>>29829396
except gay people of course
>>29829417
Your hollow philosophy does not impress me.
>>29828435
no, i expect you to follow the evidence
none of the evidence points to the contrary
>>29829463
It's not supposed to, it's an incredibly simple logical point that seems to go over most people's heads. A refutation of a superficial objection usually looks hollow.
>>29829417
>ontological argument
>not being pants on head retarded
Simbly ebin.
>>29829417
What makes eternity greater than ephemerality? What does great even mean in this context? And is the "greatest possible being" even logically possible?
>>29828501
i'd say it makes it more fucked
someone made this shitty place and did nothing about it
or maybe they just laugh at it
hell the best evidence that theres a god is the fact the world is so fucked
>>29829524
Nope. My conclusion was that IF God exists, he is eternal by definition. Not that God does in fact exist.
>>29829468
You have EVIDENCE there is no God, please share it with us
>>29829522
There's nothing logical about the meaningless idea of a 'greatest thing'.
>>29829468
im not claiming there isnt a god
i just see any evidence that there is one, so i dont assume there is one
>>29829573
just dont see any**
>>29828435
fuck off christcuck, go eat a bullet
>>29828435
sujt eb oseufly
lel all the actual answers to this get no replies
stay ignorant christfags
>>29829642
>r9k in >201x
>serious discussion
choose 1
>>29829533
>What makes eternity greater than ephemerality?
If x is created by y, then x is contingent on the will of y, making y necessarily greater since it's will must have more creative potential than x.
What does great even mean in this context?
It would mean a property that exemplifies it's nature in the fullest way possible. For example, perfect knowledge would be the property of having the most knowledge possible.
And is the "greatest possible being" even logically possible?
I don't know, that really has nothing to do with my original point. I don't even believe in God.
>>29828967
>The universe being like a ridiculously large cell generating small energy with matter (galaxies) hitting the sides or something in a very slow pace.
>Seeing how insects move so fast maybe the life for this giant organism is pretty alright timed, as he's ridiculously big.
This is what I believe, except our planet is more like an atom. Sun is the "proton", moon is "neutron", other bodies around us "electrons". We, the surface dwellers, are on the INNER side of a sphere. The observable universe is *simple* (such as everlasting storm on Jupiter) because it is inside, and very small/big (space is bendy). You could never send a physical object (ship?) "through" this stuff.
Also cannot drill into the center of the earth. Remember, we are on the inner side of a sphere. Flip perspective to the outside and you see another sun-like "proton".
We have been totally lied to about "outer" (inner!!!) space. Reality as we know it (three dimensional space with time and gravity) doesn't exist past the stratosphere. We've never put an object on Mars and never will. Or the Moon. Those great pictures of the Sun are taken from here on Earth. There are no satellites, only mimicking drone planes and towers.
>>29828435
my thought is something always existed
like a fucking quark or something something extremely small and the entire universe came out of the extremely small thing
>>29829956
Are you saying that a fucking quark could store all energy in our universe?
>>29830264
no I just mean a subatomic particle
>>29828435
>no beginning?
There was a beginning.
>You really expect me to just believe it all came from nothing.
What's cool about theoretical physics is, that even if you don't believe it, it will still be right.
>>29828435
We have these concepts like "nothing" we use in everyday life, but it does not mean we can apply them when talking about universe in drastically different scales from our own, like quantum level or the whole universe. What came before the Big Bang? It is not even clear if this is even a meaningful question. For example you might be in the north pole and ask yourself "in which direction is north?", if you answer in no direction you are correct , if you answer in all directions you are correct, our concepts like "north" brakes given certain circumstances. In the same way I think "did the universe the came from nothing?" might not even be meaningful question, according to Big bang theory even space and time and the laws of physics themselves came into existence once the Big Bang started, the concept of cause and effect might not be necessary for the creation of the universe
>>29830886
so basically you believe something came from nothing
What a dumb thread, but damn Demolition was good.
>>29831117
Basically he understands that the concept of 'something coming from nothing' in the way you present it does not even make sense when it comes to the Big Bang.
>>29828435
The truth is:
We are but one tiny planet in a giant universe.
We can't have a correct view because we still know so little, it is likely the human race will go extinct before we find out.
