Saw a thread asking what happened to it, so I'll attempt to revive it.
All I've done is drank all day.
I am very depressed and mentally unstable, i am going to kill myself soon thanks you for reading
>>29711678
play bingo with us fag.
>>79687040
>>29711678
Don't do it, you have so much to live for, and think of your family!
>>29712091
Don't do it, you have so much to live for, and think of your family!
>>29712296
Don't do it, you have so much to live for, and think of your family!
(wire the money in the checking account this time, not the savings account)
>>29712436
How much do I have to live for? What should I do, to live for?
How shall I verify my existence?
I've been very depressed for 4 months now. Killing myself very soon.
Making a meme out of your depression is not a good thing. This is pathetic to fester in your depression. You're acknowledging it, instead of trying to have a positive outlook, which means you're sad little attention whores who want pity from eachother.
>>29712572
>This is pathetic to fester in your depression.
stop anon why are you making me feel like this
What does being truly depressed honestly feel like?
>>29712513
I'm off duty, I can't help you. What gives anyways, you depressed people are always happy with me not helping anyways. It's always "don't talk me out of this" or "I will follow through with this" and they don't even realize that it is going to cost me a job. Thankfully we have women to thank for two things. One, they use suicide as an accessory instead of an action to be done when you see your life has no hope. They are customers who keep coming back so I can keep on doing mechanical turk therapy. Second, they vote for people who will ruin your future and give you no hope and makes them want to off themselves, thus I get even more business.
What do you have to live for? Yourself and the success of your dynasty. Yourself and all the money and prestige you can desire. Your dynasty for your genes shaping the future world.
What should you do, to live for? You should live to emotionally develop, upon which you will find many things to like, such as literature, philosophy, family, hunting, whatever you like that you will find only if you emotionally develop. To emotionally develop I think you should read and get your life together, stop using drugs at least temporarily so that in your free time you can actually confront your feelings and try to figure them out. But, you should get the guidance of a talk therapist to help with this. With a talk therapist you will emotionally develop, then you will find the things you love, which will be what you live for. As it stands right now you are emotionally developing, when not on drugs, on 4chan.org/r9k/ or other boards. They are fun to talk on, not a fun life however when you neglected your emotional development though.
How shall you verify your existence? You exist, don't you? Do you need any more verification than that?
>>29712572
lol u don't know how depression works do ya? people who are depressed hardly enjoy anything anymore so it hardly matters if they improve or not.
Honestly I've had depression so long in my life I don't even really remember when it began and I don't really care anymore. Nothing entertains me and my life just constantly collapses and I'm tired of trying to rebuild it just for it to fall over again. Not like what I did build was much of anything anyway. If I killed myself right now no one would really notice either. I think I'm too passive now even for suicide though. I don't even have the energy to kill myself. I just let the world spin.
>tfw losing the ability to hide it after all these years
I'll die before I talk though
>>29712941
It's an emotional issue. There is no logical reasoning to back up depression and suicide. It is completely emotional and irrational. Therefore you should learn to be more logical, with philosophy of course.
I actually can't exist like this anymore.
>>29712994
Living is irrational since there's no point and is filled with misery, boredom, and pain, with few moments of satisfaction. Listening to your survival instinct is irrational.
>>29713167
It's irrational that you should think to explain the meaning of life in your post there.
>>29713065
Then it's time for you to push your human limits and TRANSCEND.
>>29713193
Why?
origiginal
>>29713350
Because that is a common philosophical inquiry which, when it is talked about by competent people, is long and arduous. You are not competent in philosophy yet, so to trust your idea of the meaning of life is foolish. To commit suicide based on your flawed perception of the world is foolish. You need to listen to competent thinkers.
I'm pathetic, I've failed 5 college classes in two years and have no excuses to my parents for any of them, there's no way I'll be able to get a better job because they'll want my GPA which is terrible. I hate the people at my current job and I'm joke there because of how much I fuck up basic tasks, while getting mocked by people who say they wish they had my job because its so easy. I went to a therapist like 6 months ago and made myself look too convincingly normal so I just got waved off, and never went back.
I just want to stay in my room and die.
>>29712994
suicide isn't necessarily irrational stop this fucking meme
>>29713403
Who the hell are you to say? I've read Schopenhauer, Nietzsche, Sartre, Camus, Stirner, Plato, Hume, Locke, Descartes, Berkeley, Gardner, Heraclitus, Lucretius, Seneca, and dozens of others. The general conclusion is that life is endless struggle and everything is impermanent. That's all well and good when you have a strong drive for endless war, but eventually you burn out or for whatever reason just plain fucking lose the war. There is no dignity in carrying on broken and mocked. There is no purpose in living a life of loneliness and futility. There is no victory in fighting global winner-take-all battles on fields prepared by Silicon Valley billionaires. And there sure as hell is no good reason to want to have children to subject to this endless succession of labor, stress, fear, and despair. It's futile.
>>29713403
>Asks why
>lol u just wouldnt understand
>>29713470
I failed five college classes in one year, and got three D's. I can't get a job because I'm too much of an autist and I haven't left my room for anything but food and the bathroom in five days.
God I fucking hate myself so much
>>29713479
>suicide isn't necessarily irrational stop this fucking meme
Why is that? Besides assisted suicide or otherwise suicide to prevent a worse fate, such as torture, which is a given.
>>29713556
No Aristotle listed? Well I see you have read a lot of philosophy, have you ever tried doing it?
>The general conclusion
Oh they all agreed with each other and what you are saying here?
This is completely abstract post here, I don't see any logical arguments. I see emotional arguments, and the thing about those is we already know what emotional state you are in, you are depressed. Therefore emotional arguments for you are going to be heavily biased towards a big yes to suicide. There are no rational arguments for suicide in here. In fact your political views are wack too, but because the problems of which you are referring to (you were so abstract you only mentioned Silicon Valley billionaires which is why I think your political views are wack) can be fixed, but won't be fixed if the people who recognize them correctly just kill themselves.
>>29713560
He made a claim, then didn't back it up. The fact is that I don't understand and I am asking him to explain the rational steps he took to reach that conclusion.
>>29711678
drinking doesn't work for me
I mean, I get a chad demeanor, but the hangover fucking destroys me
>>29713768
Yes, I've read Aristotle as well, you insufferable ass. I went to an Ivy. If you aren't able to abstract a general lesson from multiple authors, that isn't my problem.
> Hurr durr if you disagree with me you must be mentally ill and therefore your arguments are invalid
Nice try, Stalin.
>>29713768
You're saying there's no rational argument for suicide, but what logical argument is there to live when there's literally no purpose and everything you do will be pointless because you're dead? When life is full of pain, boredom, and disappointment, then what logical reason is there to live unless you're a masochist since there's no point anyway?
I want to disappear. Physically
Best suicide method for doing so?
>>29713873
Not him, but why are you arguing here that suicide's totally rational and okay, even preferable? If you really wanted to do it, you'd be doing it, not trying to convince online strangers that you will. No-one here can stop you, and your arguments won't change the fact that in cases of mental illness, perception is warped to the point where it's not possible to make a rational decision about something like suicide.
Also, you deeply, deeply misunderstood the philosophers you listed, in no way were the vast majority of them arguing for nihilism. I don't believe at all you went to an Ivy.
You all just need to man up
People have experienced worsd problems head on
>>29713959
Many different conclusions can be made from the same material by different people. Frankly I don't care what you believe about me. Keep jousting at windmills, whiteknight anon.
>>29713975
we are all scared autists thats why we havent gotten over this, so we talk it out amongst each other instead and it gives us some level of comfort.
>>29714063
>Many different conclusions can be made from the same material by different people.
Going "Yeah well it's all subjective so I'm right" isn't an argument. None of those authors were saying that life is a pointless struggle and nothing means anything so you should kill yourself to fix it.
How exactly am I a whiteknight, by the way? What am I whiteknighting for? If you want to kill yourself, go ahead, it's your decision ultimately, but it's not a rational one to make, and people have explained why to you already.
>>29714087
I know
It feels like shit but then again im massive hypocritr and even take pride in it
>>29713873
>I went to an Ivy.
right before that
>you insufferable ass
You should have called me a pretentious ass.
>If you aren't able to abstract a general lesson from multiple authors, that isn't my problem.
Considering that most on your list had differing philosophies I don't see how that is possible at all. Are you going to tell me next that Diogenes, Plato, and Aristotle were in total agreement in the single philosophy which they all passed down from generation to generation, and now that you went to an Ivy League you have the secret. If you were competent you would have told me your own ideas, what you have learned and accepted to be true from reading from all those philosophers. That is such a philosophy degree view of philosophy. I read this and this and this and there is not a single idea of my own in my head!
>Hurr durr if you disagree with me you must be mentally ill and therefore your arguments are invalid
I never argued that, such a thing is a strawman. What I said was that your feelings have no place in this inquiry because they are already heavily biased towards suicide and depression.
You are not competent in this at all. Not one argument from you, you haven't responded to anything I said, you have only taken what I said, called me Stalin, and because I am Stalin that argument I made is wrong. Only emotional drivel from you, goodbye.
>>29713899
I'm going to make a theoretical situation where there are only individuals and no posterity, which was no doubt the work of the gods. If there were only individuals and no posterity then that one generation would eventually die out and there would be no humans left. So, in that situation I would say nothing matters because everyone just dies. However, back to the real world, we have posterity. And we don't want them to inherit debt or other such shitty things. We don't want to leave them cities like Detroit. The individual dies of course, but the posterity lives on. Out of space, sufficient though.
>>29713975
exactly, I'm just a pathetic person who doesn't deserve anything
>>29714260
>which was no doubt the work of the gods
Proof?
>And we don't want them to inherit debt or other such shitty things. We don't want to leave them cities like Detroit. The individual dies of course, but the posterity lives on. Out of space, sufficient though
So just because that's what most people want means that life is rational?
>>29714318
It's a theoretical situation, it could be a sickness that causes infertility but that is not the purpose of the creation of that theoretical situation. The purpose is the envision a species first that has no posterity. They would no doubt have the same view on suicide as you, there would be no concern with living besides their pleasures and making money to afford those pleasures. Then you have a species that has posterity, all animals, of which most humans do not have that view of suicide which is that because everyone dies what you do in life doesn't matter. Posterity is the most important part of an animal, including man. And if nothing in life matters, then that includes posterity. Then there cannot be a species which does not care about posterity or else it just dies out. The reason why we are here is because animals care about posterity, we owe our existence to it. So, from the perspective of an animal like man, posterity is very rational. So you are likely to want to bust a nut in a woman before you want to head out, leave a single mother behind, and if that is your mating style then you need to confront your parents on their terrible parenting style because there is evidence to suggest that adverse childhood experiences will cause dopamine production problems and make you feel like fucking lots of women before you off yourself. Breed like a rabbit as they say, you were raised like one. Goodbye, my shift has unfortunately ended.
>crippling depression
>WAAAAAAH I'M SAD BECAUSE THINGS DIDN'T GO MY WAY WAAAAAHHHHHHHH
I tried to hang out with people today, I really did, but their company just exhausted me. I could only think of returning home and slamming some vodka. Every night I wish for death and every morning I cry because I wake up. There's nothing left for me, at all.
I'm just so fucking tired.
>>29712994
>philosophy
>logical
Kek. Life is a series of losses with brief moments of success. Your pets will die, your friends will die and your family will die.
Unless you die first you will lose everyone you care about.
>>29714569
I get you're baiting, but you're honestly correct with this. A lot of people here assume that the severity of your depression is based purely around how you feel, which it isn't. The situation you're in also contributes heaps, as in if you have a shit life and are extremely unhappy about it, you're probably only mildly depressed, as your reaction is only slightly outside the norm for someone in your situation.
Same as if a normie is just kind of unhappy despite having a great live, you're both just mildly depressed.
Also, threadly reminder that if you're doing shit with your life, like at all, you're not crippled by your depression, and don't have crippling depression.
>>29714512
>Life is rational because it needs to exist for future people for no real reason
>>29714569
>lol just be happy bro its all about the frame of mind u gotta be grateful for life even though its a complete joke.
>>29714698
>Life is rational because it needs to exist for future people for no real reason
This is begging the question. You can't just keep going "But why should we do that?" and act like it's refuting anything. That dude gave an explanation, you have to actually explain why you disagree with it, and why your view has more credibility.
>>29714687
l wasn't baiting. The term "crippling depression" is a whiny bitch term used by whiny, entitled attention whores who are sad about stupid shit.
And no, this isn't bait either. Fuck off.
>>29714817
Well, it read like bait at least, but yeah, I agree with you. As I said in the last part of my post, if you're able to function day to day, you can study or work and take care of yourself, you're not crippled by it.
Chucking on specifiers like that to try to look worse than you are is stupid, and as you said, mostly used by people who are just sad about stupid shit and looking for some attention.
>>29714765
All he said was that life is rational because biologically we're inclined to continue life. But what rational reason is there to do that really when life is full of pain and misery and waning enjoyment? What consequence is there to have everyone die? There's no problems or suffering in death. Unless you're a masochist life is inferior to death.
>>29714817
>>29714843
>sad about stupid shit
Life literally has no purpose so you have to make up your own goals. When somebody fails that goal permanently then they lose motivation to live since life is pointless and dreadful anyway.
>>29714698
>Life is rational because it needs to exist for future people for no real reason
Ahh, what's wrong with these people, I tell them my shift is ended but they keep on replying, what if I am gone for good? For this one I will work overtime though. Animals would not exist without posterity, and the desire for it. And animals do exist, so therefore the desire for posterity exists. And of course posterity exists as a result of that desire. Does it extend beyond the dopamine reward system and the orgasm? Yes, and I would say that the more intelligent animals care more about their offspring than less intelligent animals. A big cat animal will invest heavily on their offspring, training them to hunt and such. So the desire for it exists as a rational and complex concept in all animals including humans. It exists, it is rational, what is your argument against this seemingly innate desire for posterity in animals?
>>29714864
>But what rational reason is there to do that really when life is full of pain and misery and waning enjoyment?
Because your subjective opinion on a topic isn't the same as rationality. Others would say that life is full of beauty and joy, and as such is obviously worth continuing. "I don't like this thing" isn't a rational reason for why thing shouldn't exist.
>What consequence is there to have everyone die?
We'd all be dead, and incapable of experiencing any sensation at all? You could easily argue that sensation is inherently superior to a complete lack of sensation.
>There's no problems or suffering in death
That's a huge statement that you can't back up at all. As far as you know, you could be going straight to hell if you kill yourself.
>Unless you're a masochist life is inferior to death.
What's your logic behind this? Not just based off your personal experiences please.
>>29714900
You can't fail a goal permanently at like fucking 20 anon, unless your goal is completely arbitrary like "do this thing before you turn 20". The end of life is the only way to guarantee failure.
Virginity is a major point brought up here that people whine about, or not being socially active enough, but they're comparing themselves to a false reality. Around 13% of people are virgins at 20, and most people aren't socialising all the time. Anyone who browses here also isn't completely isolated.
>be me
>social outcast ever since puberty
>played games/watched anime alone in my room for about a decade
>now playing games/watching anime in public housing
>everyone around my age and even younger in my family have adult lives now with loved ones and kids
People just look at me like im the biggest fucking loser ever, and pity me. And they should.. Im miserable and my life gets worse every year.
>>29714932
Again, why is it rational to extend life just because biologically we're programmed to? During life you're prone to problems. In death there are no problems.
>>29714957
So just because some people find life constantly joyful (oh, yeah, I'm sure most of their time isn't them being bored or stressed) that means it should exist when absence of life is equal for everybody and has no problems due to no sensations?
>You can't fail a goal permanently at like fucking 20 anon, unless your goal is completely arbitrary
Life is arbitrary so any goal is arbitrary
>>29715109
>So just because some people find life constantly joyful (oh, yeah, I'm sure most of their time isn't them being bored or stressed)
You're making your bias very obvious here. And yes, it does, it's just as credible as "I am personally not happy with life so life shouldn't exist". Others enjoy life, and their experiences are just as valid as yours.
Sure, everyone has some stresses, but don't act like your life has no positives, or that you've never been happy.
>that means it should exist when absence of life is equal for everybody and has no problems due to no sensations?
This is just an assumption you're making that I already addressed. Don't ignore parts of my post to act like I haven't already pointed out the flaw in an argument.
>Life is arbitrary so any goal is arbitrary
Care to explain this? How can life be arbitrary?
>>29715201
So you're saying life should exist just so people can be happy? Even though boredom is prevalent through people? And when people fail they have to work hard just to be in a new situation that MIGHT be decent. All of those good times? They're just vague memories. They might as well have not happened. Life might as well not happen since there's no consequence for it to end for everyone. Death for everyone is less selfish since then everyone is equal.
>This is just an assumption you're making that I already addressed. Don't ignore parts of my post to act like I haven't already pointed out the flaw in an argument
Why should there be belief in an afterlife when consciousness is just your brain? There's no signs of souls or anything like that.
>Care to explain this? How can life be arbitrary
Because you're just going to die and you won't remember anything
>>29715109
>Again, why is it rational to extend life just because biologically we're programmed to? During life you're prone to problems. In death there are no problems.
Alright, so dying is not the only way solve problems. First of all, death is a big problem for a lot of people who need to provide for their families. Like I said before, there does exist this desire for posterity in most people, and that is why they live. Their lives are important for those around them like their family, so to say in death there are no problems does not apply to such people. Death is a problem for them. Second of all, what you said first is exactly right, we are biologically programmed to do that. That is the rational explanation for why we do it.
>>29715402
>We're supposed to do it so therefore we should do it even though there's no real reason to do it, even though doing it poses problems when the alternative has no problems.
Doesn't sound logical to me.
>death is a big problem for a lot of people who need to provide for their families
They shouldn't have created a family. Creating people just creates problems. Hence life being irrational.
>>29715389
>So you're saying life should exist just so people can be happy? Even though boredom is prevalent through people? And when people fail they have to work hard just to be in a new situation that MIGHT be decent. All of those good times?
I'm arguing that your opinions on life aren't any more valid than anyone elses. You don't like life. Others do. Therefore, the argument that life sucks so we should all kill ourselves isn't valid, as most wouldn't agree that life sucks.
And killing yourself because you're bored is fucking ridiculous.
>Life might as well not happen since there's no consequence for it to end for everyone.
You're ignoring the most obvious consequence, that we'd all be fucking dead and incapable of experiencing anything.
>Death for everyone is less selfish since then everyone is equal.
Arguing that death is less selfish because it would be better for you, despite it being worse for others is pretty illogical my dude. Can you not see the issue there?
>Why should there be belief in an afterlife when consciousness is just your brain? There's no signs of souls or anything like that.
Because absence of evidence isn't evidence of absense. You're arguing we should all just make a huge leap, despite billions believing that that leap could potentially result in eternal damnation. Once again, your opinion isn't worth any more than that of other people.
>Because you're just going to die and you won't remember anything
That isn't what arbitrary means. Arbitrary is a description for a decision make on a whim, with no particular reason for making that decision. Life by definition can't be arbitrary, it's a state of being, not a decision.
Also, as has been said, your impact on the world doesn't stop with your death.
>You're ignoring the most obvious consequence, that we'd all be fucking dead and incapable of experiencing anything
How come people aren't constantly smiling then if life isn't mainly boredom, misery, potential disappointment, painful, etc?
>Arguing that death is less selfish because it would be better for you, despite it being worse for others is pretty illogical my dude. Can you not see the issue there?
So life should exist so some people can be happy? Why is that fair? Death is fair. It's equal for everybody.
>you're arguing we should all just make a huge leap, despite billions believing that that leap could potentially result in eternal damnation
But we're all going to die anyway. Same result regardless of what is done in life.
>>29715477
>Doesn't sound logical to me.
That's because you are misrepresenting what I said, rewording it, reading the reworded string of words that you green texted, and it didn't make sense to you. Those are your words that don't make sense to you.
What I said was that the biological instinct for posterity exists, which is why posterity exists. That is all the rational explanation that is required to answer your inquiries into why we should continue to extend life, here's why.
The reason we do such a thing is because it is biologically programmed into all animals, and humans are animals. We are not thought bubbles who need explanations of why we are graced with our existence of pure thought. We are animals with a defining characteristic of having great brains, and your brain will not be passed on because your brain is not biologically advantageous towards existing. Those whose brains are good at continuing existence will pass on their genes, personality is genetic remember, the brain is genetically coded. And that is the rational explanation, not of why should we continue our existence, but rather why we do in fact continue our existence.
>>29715665
>How come people aren't constantly smiling then if life isn't mainly boredom, misery, potential disappointment, painful, etc?
What sort of argument is this? How come people aren't constantly crying if it is?
Did you actually think this was a good point?
>So life should exist so some people can be happy?
I've addressed this already. Why should life stop being because you aren't happy, despite many others being happy with it?
>Death is fair. It's equal for everybody.
And shocker, from what you've said, it would be better for you. You're arguing that others should lose something they enjoy, so that your situation can improve. That's selfish, and inherently not equal for everyone.
>But we're all going to die anyway. Same result regardless of what is done in life.
Do you not understand the whole concept of damnation? You don't just go to hell no matter what, but committing a mortal sin is a pretty good way to get yourself a one way ticket.
>>29715745
All you've explained is why we continue our existence. Selfish or ignorant people procreate. Saying why we do something doesn't justify doing it.
>>29715749
>What sort of argument is this? How come people aren't constantly crying if it is?
If they aren't smiling then they're bored at best or occupied doing something needless.
>Why should life stop being because you aren't happy, despite many others being happy with it
Because death is equal for everybody. It's fair. Life isn't equal and is a struggle and often times a competition.
>You don't just go to hell no matter what, but committing a mortal sin is a pretty good way to get yourself a one way ticket
There's literally no reason to believe in a specific religion as they are all made up without proof. But theoretically just nuke the entire world to end life and innocent people won't go to hell.
>>29715874
>If they aren't smiling then they're bored at best or occupied doing something needless.
Really, I don't even have words to describe how bad of an argument this is. You can be happy without smiling.
>Because death is equal for everybody. It's fair. Life isn't equal and is a struggle and often times a competition.
But death isn't equal. Let me try to greentext this for you
>I want thing
>Therefore, me getting thing would be positive
>Others do not want thing
>Therefore, them getting thing would be negative
>Somehow us both getting thing is equal, despite it being positive for some and negative for others
Sure, the end result is the same, you all have it, but as only some want it, it's not equal or fair.
>There's literally no reason to believe in a specific religion as they are all made up without proof.
As I've said, absence of evidence isn't evidence of absence. And there are many theological arguments supporting the existence of god, but I'm not getting into that right now.
>But theoretically just nuke the entire world to end life and innocent people won't go to hell.
Except for any of those complacent in the nuking. You also destroy the entire earth, wiping out many species of animals that cannot experience emotion or a negative thing, you're mindlessly wiping out life. This is cruel, and turns the theoretical genocide into a negative thing.
>>29715874
>>29715745
And I will also add that since humans are known for having great brains like stated, then we should be rational and realize life is not worth it.
>>29715874
Not the original guy you were arguing with, but you're just stating that procreation is bad, therefore you're selfish and ignorant if you procreate. You're not explaining why it's bad.
>>29715997
You can't go "If you were actually smart you'd agree with me". That's not compelling in the slightest, and is barely above an ad hom attack, going "if you disagree with me you're dumb and irrational".
>>29715977
>But death isn't equal
Yes it is. Everyone's life is different. Everyone's state of not being alive is equal unless you believe in afterlife, which doesn't seem realistic.
>As I've said, absence of evidence isn't evidence of absence
Yeah. So I might as well make a theory that if you don't kill yourself then you angered god and will go to hell.
>You also destroy the entire earth, wiping out many species of animals that cannot experience emotion or a negative thing, you're mindlessly wiping out life. This is cruel, and turns the theoretical genocide into a negative thing
No life--no problems. Fair for everybody. Nobody or nothing will fuck anybody over anymore.
>>29716029
>Not the original guy you were arguing with, but you're just stating that procreation is bad, therefore you're selfish and ignorant if you procreate. You're not explaining why it's bad
Because life just poses problems. Death doesn't have problems.
>You can't go "If you were actually smart you'd agree with me". That's not compelling in the slightest, and is barely above an ad hom attack, going "if you disagree with me you're dumb and irrational"
I've already explained that life is pointless and poses problems so therefore it's irrational unless you're a masochist.
>>29715874
>All you've explained is why we continue our existence.
Yes I have, I have explained and justified the reasons behind it, and it is rational.
>Selfish or ignorant people procreate.
No, animals procreate and humans are in the category of animal. So about 84% of humans actually procreate, therefore you would have to prove that those 84% of people are selfish or ignorant.
You can't use the bell curve of IQ for this because the bell curve is based on children bore of the people who do procreate. So if it were only ignorant low IQ people breeding then the IQ would be lowering over time, which it is not. There are many successful high IQ people who procreate, people I would not call ignorant. And I don't know how you can prove your other generalization saying that they are all selfish. No one will believe claims like that.
>Saying why we do something doesn't justify doing it.
No of course not, but it does explain why we do it, so when you ask why we should do it, and I answer by explaining the reasons why we do in fact do it, then I think that addresses the original question doesn't it.
You must keep in context the biological implications of our existence. If there are some people who question why they bother living and if they did not care about their posterity then they would cease to continue existing, while those with more advantageous brains would continue breeding. If you throw away this biological explanation you are flying blind in this inquiry and you can get nowhere. Which is why I remind you that we are animals, not consciousness, and we are subject to the rules of biology.
I think I'm so depressed that I don't even acknowledge it anymore because it's basically my default state. That's probably not a good thing.
>>29716097
>Yes it is. Everyone's life is different. Everyone's state of not being alive is equal unless you believe in afterlife, which doesn't seem realistic.
You just completely fucking ignored my reasoning you absolute retard, to restate your original point again. I explained why it's wrong, if you're going to act like a moron and ignore that, feel free, but don't expect anyone to take you seriously.
>Yeah. So I might as well make a theory that if you don't kill yourself then you angered god and will go to hell.
That's not a theory supported by any major religion, or with any reasoning to why it would exist. Why would a god create you with the express purpose of self destruction?
>No life--no problems. Fair for everybody. Nobody or nothing will fuck anybody over anymore
Also no positives. You're depriving people of something they enjoy, and calling it equal. As well as, as I said, you destroying life mindlessly, as animals and plants cannot experience emotions.
>>29716151
>Because life just poses problems. Death doesn't have problems.
Except for the widely believed theory that suicide results in damnation. And you depriving others of something they enjoy, that's kind of a problem, and a selfish way to act.
>I've already explained that life is pointless and poses problems so therefore it's irrational unless you're a masochist.
No, you haven't explained shit. You've stated it, sure, but given no reasoning that hasn't already been addressed. Lets not forget that for several posts you argued that if people aren't smiling all the time, therefore they aren't happy with life and killing them would be merciful.
>>29716187
That's not really how depression works anon. The more depressed you get, the more obvious your depression is.
>>29716208
I should add here, that this is a positive thing. You don't want to be more depressed than you are, for obvious reasons, and if you're at a point where you're not obviously depressed all the time and heavily feeling it, then that's great, and you should really take advantage of that to keep moving forwards with your recovery.
>>29716208
by obvious what do you mean?
I'm talking about I'm so desensitized to the symptoms that I don't even think twice about them
>>29716288
You become less functional. Less able to operate on a moment to moment basis, and less able to take care of yourself successfully. I'm not going to explain symptom to symptom how they get worse though I'm sure somewhere online does.
>I'm talking about I'm so desensitized to the symptoms that I don't even think twice about them
That's a good thing still, as they're getting less in the way of your operations, you don't need to focus on them as much. It's really common in dysthymia, which is less severe.
>>29716164
I understand we're inclined to reproduce. But why is it a good idea to reproduce? Everything somebody does will be pointless because they will die. They will struggle in life. So why perpetuate life beyond the reason of biological impulse?
>>29716195
>You just completely fucking ignored my reasoning
Somebody wants thing and others not wanting thing only happens in life. No problems if there's no life for everybody.
>That's not a theory supported by any major religion, or with any reasoning to why it would exist. Why would a god create you with the express purpose of self destruction
The more people believing something doesn't make it true. Why would god create anything? God can do whatever he wants if he exists. Who said he's good? I don't see how life is good.
>Also no positives. You're depriving people of something they enjoy, and calling it equal. As well as, as I said, you destroying life mindlessly, as animals and plants cannot experience emotions
Why does there need to be positives? No negatives is better than a needless existence full of potential negatives. No existence is necessary.
>Except for the widely believed theory that suicide results in damnation. And you depriving others of something they enjoy, that's kind of a problem, and a selfish way to act
Widely believed proves nothing when there's no logical reason to believe it
>No, you haven't explained shit
Ok then why is life necessary?
Everybody ignores me, why doesn't anyone want to talk to me, even a fembot is ignoring me fucking hypocrites they don't what's it is to be alone
>>29716360
>Somebody wants thing and others not wanting thing only happens in life. No problems if there's no life for everybody.
You're still completely ignoring my reasoning. I'm not going to keep having this discussion if you're going to act this way.
>The more people believing something doesn't make it true
I never claimed it did.
>Why would god create anything? God can do whatever he wants if he exists. Who said he's good? I don't see how life is good.
I'm not having a theological debate with you. But no-one but an edgelord could argue that somehow god is bad, you should really read at least the few major religious texts.
>Why does there need to be positives?
Because people enjoy those positives, your entire argument so far has been "life sucks so we should all die". Life being a positive is a pretty important point there.
>No negatives is better than a needless existence full of potential negatives.
Says who?
>No existence is necessary.
You need to stop making high modality statements like this that make no actual sense, it doesn't make you look any smarter.
>Widely believed proves nothing when there's no logical reason to believe it
We're talking about whether or not people should kill themselves. Many believe that suicide results in damnation. For them, that is an obvious reason to not kill yourself. There is no reason to believe your theory any more than there is theirs.
>Ok then why is life necessary?
For what? Pic related, it's how you've been acting through this whole thing, and particularly now.
>>29716360
>I understand we're inclined to reproduce. But why is it a good idea to reproduce? Everything somebody does will be pointless because they will die. They will struggle in life. So why perpetuate life beyond the reason of biological impulse?
Why does it have to be a good idea for it to be done and for it to exist? That is an arbitrary requirement. Why do bugs exist, they bug me all the time and give me bites. They are not a good thing and if bugs were someones idea they would be a bad idea. But they don't exist for that reason, they just exist because of biology. Just like how humans exist and continue to reproduce because of biology. It doesn't have to be a good or bad idea, it's just the pure truth of our existence. You may think that existence is therefore arbitrary, but I would rather say that you have arbitrary standards on existence.
> be 18
> go to civil service camp
> habit of falling in love with girls
> last one of 2 years only liked me for 2 weeks
> meet cutie from across the U.S
> smiles and lock eyes when I present in front of 300 people
> she ends up with my friend from Texas because they live closer
I am Scarface.
Felt like killing myself during the dance even though I could've danced with her.
>>29716445
>You're still completely ignoring my reasoning. I'm not going to keep having this discussion if you're going to act this way
You're talking about getting things. I don't follow. That only happens in life. People clash in life; disagreements. Universal death is equal since everyone enters a void of nothingness.
>I'm not having a theological debate with you. But no-one but an edgelord could argue that somehow god is bad, you should really read at least the few major religious texts
Life is bad. I've already explained why. Pre-birth was fine.
>Because people enjoy those positives, your entire argument so far has been "life sucks so we should all die". Life being a positive is a pretty important point there
But there's no point to life and everything you do in it will be forgotten by you since you will die. You're saying life should exist even though it's full of competition and struggle for everybody, but this questionable and impeding existence is justified because some people are happy at some points?
>Says who?
Who the hell wants negatives? Masochists? Death is nothingness; no negatives.
>You need to stop making high modality statements like this that make no actual sense, it doesn't make you look any smarter
Ok, so show me where theres signs that life needs to continue to exist? Im asserting it shouldn't since it creates problems and that happiness obtained is irrelevant when you have to work so hard to achieve it, and it can easily be taken away. Most people aren't easily amused, or else they would do hardly anything.
>Were talking about whether or not people should kill themselves. Many believe that suicide results in damnation. For them, that is an obvious reason to not kill yourself. There is no reason to believe your theory any more than there is theirs
So basically they should struggle in life and create mor life just because they believe some book from the middle east persuades them, w/o any sort of proof, that they should live as such?
>>29716455
>Why does it have to be a good idea for it to be done and for it to exist?
Because evil shouldn't exist. Life is evil. Death is liberating. No faults in death.
>>29713279
Please tell me how. I think I want to live in some kind of monastery, but without the religious rituals. I don't know where to go.
(different anon)
>>29716671
>You're talking about getting things. I don't follow. That only happens in life. People clash in life; disagreements. Universal death is equal since everyone enters a void of nothingness.
Yes, but seeing as most people do not desire death, forcing them to die is not equal to killing those that do desire to die.
>Life is bad. I've already explained why. Pre-birth was fine.
You haven't explained why, you've simply stated it over and over again.
>But there's no point to life and everything you do in it will be forgotten by you since you will die.
My memory is not the absolute record of things that happened.
>You're saying life should exist even though it's full of competition and struggle for everybody, but this questionable and impeding existence is justified because some people are happy at some points?
And you're arguing that it's not only pointless, but that we should all die because some people are unhappy. Most aren't unhappy, they enjoy life. Your point has no logic behind it.
>Who the hell wants negatives? Masochists? Death is nothingness; no negatives.
Who says that a complete lack of sensation is better than some negatives?
>Ok, so show me where theres signs that life needs to continue to exist? Im asserting it shouldn't since it creates problems and that happiness obtained is irrelevant when you have to work so hard to achieve it, and it can easily be taken away. Most people aren't easily amused, or else they would do hardly anything.
This isn't what you said at all. And once again, you're arguing that you being unhappy is somehow proof that everyone is unhappy and that death would be merciful, despite most people absolutely desiring to continue living and enjoying life.
>So basically they should struggle in life and create mor life just because they believe some book from the middle east persuades them, w/o any sort of proof, that they should live as such?
That's not what I said at all, don't strawman.
>>29716701
>Because evil shouldn't exist. Life is evil. Death is liberating. No faults in death.
Completely arbitrary standards on existence. Do you know who else does not value life? Murderers of any kind, from single victim to terrorist attacks. I would say that those people do not value life also. So how can you value other peoples lives when you don't value your own, and you say there is no reason for existence. Does that just apply to you or to others.
>>29716755
>Yes, but seeing as most people do not desire death, forcing them to die is not equal to killing those that do desire to die
They don't desire death because of instinct. When really life is pointless and hardships.
>You haven't explained why, you've simply stated it over and over again
I think most people believe boredom and disappointment and pain outweigh happiness, which are vague memories anyway. Try telling a depressed person that he should be happy because he was once happy before.
>My memory is not the absolute record of things that happened
What happens doesn't matter since you won't be able to acknowledge any of your influence when you're dead.
>And you're arguing that it's not only pointless, but that we should all die because some people are unhappy. Most aren't unhappy, they enjoy life. Your point has no logic behind it
No bad experiences in death. Potentially bad experiences in life. So Why bring people into the world?
>Who says that a complete lack of sensation is better than some negatives
People who aren't easily amused by life.
>This isn't what you said at all. And once again, you're arguing that you being unhappy is somehow proof that everyone is unhappy and that death would be merciful, despite most people absolutely desiring to continue living and enjoying life
Any swift and painless death is merciful. They're going to die anyway.
>That's not what I said at all, don't strawman
Their belief in eternal damnation has zero reasoning behind it. It's far-fetched. Why do people who aren't raised religious believe no such thing?
>>29712572
I think quite the opposite, it's pretty stoic to look at your depression in a humours manner. It makes it easier to cope with and by finding humour in it you are subsequently making yourself feel better about it.
>>29716921
>Completely arbitrary standards on existence
Beyond the survival instinct, life has no point. So I conclude life needs to be stopped since it's pointless beyond the survival instinct and consists of needless hardships and pain and boredom, all so you can experience some needless and irrelevant happiness at some points, happiness that can be taken away--permanently sometimes, hence depression.
>>29716955
>They don't desire death because of instinct.
Do you have anything to back this up?
>When really life is pointless and hardships.
This is you projecting your own opinions onto others. Most don't agree.
>I think most people believe boredom and disappointment and pain outweigh happiness, which are vague memories anyway. Try telling a depressed person that he should be happy because he was once happy before.
Most people don't believe that at all, and most people aren't suffering from mental illness. But pointing out to a depressed person that unhappiness isn't their base state, as they've spend longer happy is actually a useful tool in therapy and crisis management.
>What happens doesn't matter since you won't be able to acknowledge any of your influence when you're dead.
So what, nothing that doesn't stroke your ego is important? I don't know who the fuck invented the first computer, doesn't mean they had no impact on me.
>No bad experiences in death. Potentially bad experiences in life. So Why bring people into the world?
Because, for one, you don't know there's no bad experiences in death. And there's also the potential for good experiences in life. And as the other dude said, biological imperative.
>People who aren't easily amused by life.
Did you see where I said you were creating arbitrary restrictions that rule out my point, then going "So you can't prove yourself right? Guess I win"? You just did it again.
>Any swift and painless death is merciful. They're going to die anyway.
Forcing someone to die despite them not wanting to can't be painless, due to the mental distress. There is no gain by doing it if they enjoy life, and it is inherently cruel.
>Their belief in eternal damnation has zero reasoning behind it.
It has equally as much reasoning as yours that there's some peaceful void after death. No-one truly knows either way.
>Why do people who aren't raised religious believe no such thing?
Are you retarded?
>>29717091
>Do you have anything to back this up?
People are hardwired to avoid death. But if you acknowledge that and stop being amused easily, then why live? Fear of death is illogical since you're going to die anyway.
>This is you projecting your own opinions onto others. Most don't agree
Most people aren't easily amused. Otherwise they'd basically do nothing. As people get older they find things less and less amusing. You have to work towards entertainment of any sort; it doesn't just arrive to you. Struggle for satisfaction isn't necessary, which is what life is; end life then.
>Most people don't believe that at all, and most people aren't suffering from mental illness
Most people are idiotic. Being able to appreciate life is being able to appreciate the fact that you like being a part of one huge joke; there's no point to life other than bringing others into life, which is pointless and just poses problems and potential suffering for the individual.
>So what, nothing that doesn't stroke your ego is important? I don't know who the fuck invented the first computer, doesn't mean they had no impact on me
They might as well not have done it since they're dead and their effort was pointless then. Humanity profited off of it, but humanity shouldn't exist.
>Because, for one, you don't know there's no bad experiences in death. And there's also the potential for good experiences in life. And as the other dude said, biological imperative
Don't bring people into this world and they won't have to worry about life or death.
>Did you see where I said you were creating arbitrary restrictions that rule out my point, then going "So you can't prove yourself right? Guess I win"? You just did it again
What? I answered your question.
>Forcing someone to die despite them not wanting to can't be painless, due to the mental distress. There is no gain by doing it if they enjoy life, and it is inherently cruel
>Too bad. Life isn't fair. Death is.
>>29717033
I think, therefore I am. You understand this? You don't need to think in that irrational way, it's not like you were proving them correct with logical arguments. Logic dictates all. But if you keep on telling yourself those flawed thoughts then you will only suffer. It's your mind, you are the one thinking these thoughts. Trying to interpret some feelings instead of what is logical, and continuing to feel bad. So they say that with depression no one can help the person, they can only help themselves if they chose to. Like having to dig yourself out of a hole. Well, there is a shovel available, you could get some talk therapy. The medicines are worthless and dangerous and doesn't work alone without talk therapy, let alone are they shown to work at all better than a placebo, but if you improve what you are thinking then your whole outlook on existence will be different. Remember that we have senses and then we perceive those senses with the nervous system and brain and also then interpret them and our abstract thoughts with the brain. So everything from your point of view pertains to your brain, your mind, your thoughts. You can address your thoughts head on, and if you need help you get some talk therapy. There are good videos on youtube for how to find a proper therapist. So I guess this is goodbye, because I really don't want to hear what you have to say after this. Now you know you have that option available. I've done quite enough overtime here tonight, it's going to be a big pay check this week. I wonder what I will do with all my hard earned shekels.
>>29717295
>People are hardwired to avoid death. But if you acknowledge that and stop being amused easily, then why live?
This doesn't support that people only live for instinct at all.
>Most people aren't easily amused. Otherwise they'd basically do nothing. As people get older they find things less and less amusing. You have to work towards entertainment of any sort; it doesn't just arrive to you. Struggle for satisfaction isn't necessary, which is what life is; end life then.
You're now arguing that because life isn't purely instant gratification, it's pointless. Congratulations on having the nihilistic equivalent of a 5 year old thinking anything that doesn't pay off immediately isn't worth doing.
>Most people are idiotic. Being able to appreciate life is being able to appreciate the fact that you like being a part of one huge joke; there's no point to life other than bringing others into life, which is pointless and just poses problems and potential suffering for the individual.
Calling people who disagree with you stupid isn't an argument. Nor is making huge assumptions and insulting their reasoning. You're just getting worse at this mate.
>They might as well not have done it since they're dead and their effort was pointless then
>Humanity profited off of it
These two things are mutually exclusive. If someone profited off it, their effort wasn't pointless, as they achieved what they wanted and influenced many.
>but humanity shouldn't exist.
Should and shouldn't are irrelevant here, it does exist.
>Don't bring people into this world and they won't have to worry about life or death.
So now you're arguing for anti-natalism instead of flat out murder? That's better I guess, but we still have no idea what situation a child exists in before death. And non-existence can't be judged against existence, as it has no traits.
>What? I answered your question.
No, you created an arbitrary restriction that makes it impossible for me to be correct. Again.cont
>>29717295
>>29717091
>It has equally as much reasoning as yours that there's some peaceful void after death. No-one truly knows either way
They're going to die anyway. Just accelerate the arrival to death since life is pointless and painful anyway.
>Are you retarded?
Why do people who aren't raised religious not believe in hell? Because it's retarded to believe your specific brand of religion is the correct one. If there's a god then he doesn't care about people for showing no signs of anything.
gg, i like how this thread was for depressed people to vent about their feelings but nah it's a war between life, religion cause someone's opinion got someone pretty fucking angry.
>>29717295
The same as when I pointed out earlier in this post that most people disagree with you, you claimed that most people are retarded. You're creating random rules that make it impossible for anyone to be right, then claiming victory when no-one can be right while follwoing your rules.
>Too bad. Life isn't fair. Death is
And we're back to this point, which I already dismissed. You seem to be running out of arguments here mate.
>>29717388
This entire image is full of blatant inaccuracies and fallacies. It's flat out stated that humans are created in the image of god, for example, yet that picture says god should just be different.
Or that God should have written himself or picked literate people, despite both being done. It's a shitty /r atheism tier pic, and I'm not going to give it any more attention.
>They're going to die anyway. Just accelerate the arrival to death since life is pointless and painful anyway.
You managed to once again, completely ignore what I said. Congrats.
>Why do people who aren't raised religious not believe in hell?
I'll repeat myself. Are you retarded? Do you really think that only people raised in religious homes are religious?
>If there's a god then he doesn't care about people for showing no signs of anything.
Your argument for the non-existence of god is that he hasn't personally made an effort to interact with you, an individual who doesn't even believe in god? That's pretty bad mate. I can guarantee that you've never interacted with my mother either, you going to claim she doesn't exist because of that?
>>29717387
>This doesn't support that people only live for instinct at all
If it's not for instinct then the only reason left is for some pointless goal.
>You're now arguing that because life isn't purely instant gratification, it's pointless.
Life is pointless anyway. The extra struggle just to get some brief gratification isn't a good incentive to a pointless and struggle filled existence.
>Calling people who disagree with you stupid isn't an argument. Nor is making huge assumptions and insulting their reasoning.
If you look past the biological drive to reproduce then it's all literally pointless. Anyone who awareness will realize this. If they aren't amused easily then they will not be enjoying life much at that point, and it just gets worse.
>These two things are mutually exclusive. If someone profited off it, their effort wasn't pointless, as they achieved what they wanted and influenced many
Yes it was pointless since life is pointless. Unless you think trying to fuck so others can fuck in the future is necessary.
>Should and shouldn't are irrelevant here, it does exist
But it shouldn't since it's pointless and harmful.
>So now you're arguing for anti-natalism instead of flat out murder? That's better I guess, but we still have no idea what situation a child exists in before death. And non-existence can't be judged against existence, as it has no traits
I'm arguing that all life needs to end since nonexistence literally has no flaws.
>>29717556
>If it's not for instinct then the only reason left is for some pointless goal.
It still doesn't support your point mate.
>The extra struggle just to get some brief gratification isn't a good incentive to a pointless and struggle filled existence.
You're projecting again. Most people aren't miserable and constantly struggling, they enjoy life.
>If you look past the biological drive to reproduce then it's all literally pointless. Anyone who awareness will realize this
You managed to both create arbitrary rules to rule out my reasoning, and insult those that disagree with you in one point, good job.
>Yes it was pointless since life is pointless
Once again, arbitrary rules.
>Unless you think trying to fuck so others can fuck in the future is necessary.
We weren't even talking about fucking there mate, we were talking about the influence of the person who invented the first computer.
>But it shouldn't since it's pointless and harmful.
>Should and shouldn't are irrelevant here, it does exist
You opinion of something doesn't change whether it exists.
>I'm arguing that all life needs to end since nonexistence literally has no flaws.
So you're arguing off of assumptions, good to know. All of your points have been just either ignoring what I said to go "Life sucks" or creating arbitrary standards that rule out me being able to be correct, then claiming victory. This is pointless, I've thoroughly debunked every point you've brought up, but you just keep pretending it never happened, and that you're still right. I'm not interested in having a discussion with a brick wall, so I'm done with this.
By the way, the fact you're still alive shows you have next to no conviction in your belief's, which supports my argument that evidently life isn't completely negative, if it was you'd want it gone. Yet you're here trying to convince others of it instead of actually living by it.
>>29717465
>And we're back to this point, which I already dismissed.
When I said "Too bad. Life isn't fair" I was making a point that bad things can happen where unfair things can happen to people. No such thing in death.
>You managed to once again, completely ignore what I said. Congrats
They want to live? Well too bad, they're going to die. Just further proving that life sucks because you won't get what you want usually.
>I'll repeat myself. Are you retarded? Do you really think that only people raised in religious homes are religious?
Why else would they choose a religion when none of them have evidence?
>Your argument for the non-existence of god is that he hasn't personally made an effort to interact with you, an individual who doesn't even believe in god? That's pretty bad mate. I can guarantee that you've never interacted with my mother either, you going to claim she doesn't exist because of that?
And I bet you don't even believe I have a unicorn in my garage. You seriously don't believe me? I mean sure there's no reason to believe it, but you should anyway.
>>29717661
>When I said "Too bad. Life isn't fair" I was making a point that bad things can happen in life. No such thing in death.*****
>>29717656
>It still doesn't support your point mate
My point is that life is pointless when you disregard the need to reproduce, an act that makes no sense.
>You're projecting again. Most people aren't miserable and constantly struggling, they enjoy life
Because they don't realize how pointless everything is. They just do things for their ego. It's dumb and pointless and not a reason to continue humanity.
>You managed to both create arbitrary rules to rule out my reasoning, and insult those that disagree with you in one point, good job
It's truly pointless since there's no afterlife. Any personal tasks is for ego sake. Them flattering their ego is not a reason why people should live.
>By the way, the fact you're still alive shows you have next to no conviction in your belief's, which supports my argument that evidently life isn't completely negative, if it was you'd want it gone. Yet you're here trying to convince others of it instead of actually living by it
I was brought into this world because retards like you think suffering should exist by allowing life. I literally have to find a painless and efficient way to kill myself, because if I fuck up then life-cultists like you try to keep everybody alive. I'm killing myself soon. Only winning move is to not play.
Depression is such bullshit. I'd rather go back to how I was 10 years ago when I was fat and had no job or friends if it would mean actually having emotions again. I've been working out 4 days a week for 3 years and tried tons of medication, yet nothing fucking works.
The only thing that's kept me going is the hope that it'll disappear, but now I've finally gotten serious about killing myself. I have an exit bag easily available for when I just can't take it anymore.
I post often and try to talk with people and contribute but whenever I try and talk about problems I have, no one responds or anything.
>>29711678
>tfw antidepressants started working
Only took 3 tries and some liver issues
>>29718172
Somody pleas ehelp me understand. If you have a healthy body and enough of a life why do you want to kill yourselves?
I've been crippled for 8 months and it taken 6 months of this for me to consider suicide. when i see this thread i feel rage that people who are okay and have no real issues still hate their existence, while i rot inside hoping one day to actually walk again. i just cant sympathise.
>>29719961
Depression isn't a symptom in it's true form, it's a disease.
You can be perfectly physically healthy, have a great social life and still be horribly crippled mentally. A lot of people on this site are 'depressed' because they've failed to achieve something and are thus suffering a blow to their confidence or some other short-term effect to their psyche.
Those with real depression are physically unable to shake it, the same way you can't just will yourself to walk again. Depression isn't just feeling sad, it's being incapable of feeling happiness. All most people need are small blips of happiness to get them through the most difficult times, the issue with depression is that you don't get those small blips, you don't get anything at all.
