I just had an epiphany while reading "How to Win Friends and Influence People" by Dale Carnegie, the ultimate "how to be Chad" manual.
This is my second pass on this book, and I am committing myself to reading every last page of it critically. I wanted to know why the principles in this book did not work for me. I think I just found out. And I think that you all have the same problem, too.
To interact well with other people, the book recommends things like smiling, listening to people with interest, calling people on their birthdays, and rewarding what people do well instead of criticizing what they don't.
HOWEVER.
The book ALSO makes it VERY CLEAR that you cannot do these things without sincerity. You can't just fake-smile or say "Happy birthday" when you don't mean it, because people will like you LESS for being a faker and you'll ruin your social success even more.
So why is it that we all suck so bad at these principles? Why is it that we are always so sad and depressed and cannot fake it passably?
It's because we don't like ourselves. That's it. I figured out what makes chad chad. That's why there are ugly chads and fat chads and so on. Chad likes himself a LOT and so it's easy for him to act warmly towards others because he is just totally sure that they'll like him too.
So there you have it. You might be short, ugly, fat, whatever. I can't help you with that. But I finally figured out the one thing that you can change to make your lives better. Learn how to like yourself. Do something every day that you're proud of. Write a list of all the good things people have ever said about you, read it every day, and add to it as people say more good things. When you eat your tendies or your taco bell, don't think "I need this to escape myself," think "I deserve this for being me. I should have this joy."
Keep all of that and more up for long enough, and you'll start to see people like you more as you like yourself more.
And then read this book and take notes.
I will try, anon-san.
The problem is even when I tell myself "Hey wow I'm good at x that's good right" I just remember that there's always someone better, and then I hate myself for not being the best.
>>29638502
Emerson once said, "Every man I meet is my superior in some way. In that, I learn from him."
Learn from others where they are greater than you. Let them learn from you where you are greater. In this light, comparison is meaningless.
>>29638443
You're right OP. I've lived those behaviors my whole life and it has won me friends and girlfriends effortlessly, even though I'm average in attractiveness and personality.
Learning to love yourself is the secret to happiness.
>>29638443
i actually read that shit when i was like 11
as far as i remember it was actually about how to be a manipulative sociopath & influence people
>>29638443
There's probably something to this for some people. However, I actually don't hate myself at all. I'm not at all extroverted and don't speak up in gatherings if I can avoid it, but I am actually pretty comfortable with myself overall; at least I don't experience the feelings of self-loathing I tend to see expressed here and elsewhere on 4chan. Objectively I'd have to say that I'm probably not a "good person" by most normie definitions, but I don't feel particularly bad about it. If anything I probably have an undeservedly high opinion of myself relative to my actual accomplishments.
My problem is that I legitimately just don't find other people to be all that interesting most of the time. I can usually sit and have a polite conversation with nearly anyone. However I tend to keep the vast majority of my actual opinions to myself, and will even agree politely with statements I think are idiotic just because I don't feel like arguing. I'm very selective about what I tell people about myself, and usually try to stick to polite, superficial topics most of the time. If I'm discussing politics or something controversial I usually try to position myself as a moderate or centrist.
I've had several people whom I've met recently that I've gotten along with conversationally and who have even seemed to like me and have expressed interest in being friends with me; however I almost always end up avoiding any further contact because I feel like spending time with them would be a chore. I don't have any real trouble making friends when I actually try to do it, I just always end up not genuinely liking the people I make friends with and usually end up avoiding contact with them.
There's a very specific type of person that I get along with, and most of the time the people I meet don't fit. I have a couple of pretty close friends and they have expressed that they view social relationships pretty much the same way I do, which is probably why we get along.
>just love yourself
wow great insight op really
never thought of that, guess my whole life is turned around now
it's not like the repeated failures compounded disappointment and resentment
I'll just flip a switch, lower my expectations out of life and be happy with being complete shit
sounds fucking swell
This works until you catch a reflection of yourself and begin to get self conscious
>>29640224
This seems to be my problem also added with the fact that I can't find some normies interest fun.
I just have very unrealistic standards in all aspects of life which is why I either hate myself for not being good enough or just don't try at all
i too have been rereading this book
the issue that most of us face is that we are selfish. we do not take a genuine interest in other people. we only care about ourselves and our shit problems.
sorry but thats the real issue
>>29640321
Bretty mux thiz.
>Do something every day that you're proud of
Words to live by.
OP is pretty much right about stuff.
But this is r9k and most people here are, of course, not going to listen
>>29638443
God bless you anon; you're efforts may be lost on some, but at least you've put positivity out there
>>29638443
>tfw legitimately supportive and self-loving post on /r9k/
>>29638443
>he is just totally sure that they'll like him too.
Wait, you mean that we should expect them to like us? If a Robot has had but negative feedbacks in his life, how could he sincerely tells to himself "I'm a Nice Guy, I deserve better.
> Actually I know Robots who think that, see how well it works for them
>>29638443
so what you're saying is, I need to just bee myself?
>>29638443
Holy fuck OP. I think you're right. All this time I dismissed self-love as narcissism, but that actually makes sense.
>>29638443
>It's because we don't like ourselves
this normy meme again
What the fuck does it mean exactly? I mean actually logically explain it, what is it in the real world. I don't ever pointing at myself in a mirror and going "you're a cunt".
>>29642983
don't ever recall*
>>29638443
>That's why there are ugly chads and fat chads and so on
Those aren't Chads
>>29643033
Not OP but there are many successful fat/ugly/short people who have lots of friends and get sex.
>>29643070
Ugly people fucking other ugly people doesn't make them Chads.
>It's because we don't like ourselves.
Nah that's not the reason. I had a "friend" named Damon once. He hated himself, used to cut his thighs with a knife, used to tell me he would get sick just from looking in the mirror. But this guy at the age of 16 had already had 10 different sexual partners. Just because a person hates themselves doesn't mean they arent selfish. We all have a subconscious desire to kill other men and take their food and women.
I wondered about this for a while, what was he doing that made him so attractive and this is what I figured out: he's a selfish scumbag AND he maintained a hip "cool" facade. Normies like people who are brash and have the gall to step over people and stab them in the back, 9 times out of 10 when you are talking to a normie they are plotting and thinking up ways to take advantage of you and assert dominance over you. The ONLY way to make a normie think differently is if you stab them in the back first, assert dominance over them through aggressive speech and body language first or if you do either of those things to another person in their sight or relay the experience to them showing what sort of person and character you are.
Now, being a piece of shit isn't enough to keep people interested you have to have a gimmick, a sort of thing which draws people in and keeps them there. Damon's gimmick was playing the guitar, talking about obscure shitty music bands (which were popular at school at the time) and shopping at alternative clothing stores while he had a beanie, piercings and other little accessories. This image which damon upheld made people think that Damon was unique, had a personality and was a guitar god, because of this, people kept him around as a friend.
So, if you want friends, be a asshole and have an image, smiling and stuff is secondary, how many normies do you see smiling all the time. When I see normies now they are straight faced pulling off smug arrogant looks as if they are models for Calvin Klein
>>29638443
That's not what it's about really, I mean that's part of it but not the main thing. The main thing is to actually BE sincere, take a genuine interest in other people. Once you get your head out of your own ass (which yes, learning to like yourself helps with that) you will actually get a lot more enjoyment out of opening up and listening to people and shit, caring about them instead of using them as conduits for mutual affection.
>>29642332
>Just B.E. yourself
B-but, what does that mean?
>>29638443
My mother had that book as long as i can remember.
I tried reading it but i didn't really learn something new from it.
But, yeah, the title should be:
"How to be a sociopath and win at life"
>>29638443
>The book ALSO makes it VERY CLEAR that you cannot do these things without sincerity. You can't just fake-smile or say "Happy birthday" when you don't mean it, because people will like you LESS for being a faker and you'll ruin your social success even more.
Because "sincerity" is a codeword for "being physically, socially and economically attractive".
>>29644300
I think all of those increase the odds of success, but here is where the author's wrong. You don't need to be sincere, you just need the target to believe you are.
Basically >>29644164
>>29644342
>you just need the target to believe you are.
Which they only will due to the halo effect of being physically, socially and economically attractive.
This is a "yo Chad, let me tell you how to sociopath it up and win even more" book.
>>29644367
>implying a chad would be intelligent enough to comprehend and apply what's written in there
Anon, please.
The problem is I can't bring myself to care. I want to care, but I don't. And the few individuals I do care about I never seem to breach that distance between us because I lack empathy.
>>29644367
Im basically agreeing with you in terms of tendency, but I feel you are going all or nothing which is usually a false dilemma.
>>29638443
Jesus stop wasting your time with that shite.
https://www.scribd.com/doc/34551310/The-Principles-That-Govern-Social-Interaction
>>29638443
There needs to be a decent amount of shit to like in the first place for this to work. Not everyone has that.
Although, I'm hopeful that I could achieve that if I just did something about my more worldly problems. It's just that I need to do that first before I can get started on any of this self-acceptance shit.
>>29638443
That rings true but it's hard to even imagine liking myself that way.
>>29639564
This. It's all fake stories too. A guy gets a job because he says the boss has a nice desk? The whole book is a guy makes some retarded compliment to somebody and they throw their money at him,
>>29645925
>The whole book is a guy makes some retarded compliment to somebody and they throw their money at him,
That's literally how life works when you're attractive.
>>29645882
Thanks for the link to an incomplete sample copy of a book that tries to get you to pay for it you shilling cunt.
>>29644342
>>29644164
Nah the guy at one point even states very clearly that being nice is a nice thing to do and it has nothing to do with gaining anything from anyone.
This guy was a geniunely good person who cared about others feelings and was positively interacting with people on a daily basis.
Anons here probably just want maybe 1-2 good interactions with people a day, if that, and usually want some sort of money or social rewards or women out of it.
Thats not how it ever works. You don't get good at computer programming by wanting good programs, you write good code. The philosophy and practices behind the book are being geniune and fostering a positive MUTUALLY BENEFICIALLY relationship.
Now I say that shit because most of you fuckers are too busy being starved for social interaction to understand why anyone would not want to be a sociopath who manipulates people into his little web of lies.
That a small percentage of the population that can actually do that. Real people have fears of fucking the other person over and thinking badly of themselves, have ethics, and want to be nice. This is for them to brush up on going into a relationship with an actual goal instead of just trying to chat someone up and 'make a connection'.
The book was huge at the time because it wasn't common knowledge how to manage people and it still is very difficult, especially since there's lots of negativity based around managment and telling people want to do.
The truth is though, someone's going to be the damn leader, and its either the massive cunt who has a closet full of gay hooker skeletons or someone who is somewhat nice but learned how to lead a situation and make hard decisions for the sake of the company and people around him.
The second guy is rare as fuck. Its easy to find someone whos just a total sociiopath who will cut jobs with no emotion and keep everything running like a fucking machine built of blood and bone, but that shit doesn't work all the time.
>>29638443
>It's because we don't like ourselves.
Nah it's because we're ugly or weird. I like myself a lot, but nobody else does.
>>29646748
cont.
I also want to make clear that the absolute number one reason that anon is failing is not necessarily as the OP posits a simple matter of hating yourself.
Anon hates themselves for likely a good reason, because you know you're shit. So unless you are actively working towards not being shit, nothing gets fixed. Its just a total state of complete shit and anon doesn't believe that his state can change and that he can grow into another person.
Growth model is superior than any sort of state where you just believe static things about yourself.
Look at most of the posts that are negative and you will see things about the different labels that anon has for themselves. Their aparments are always dirty, their clothes always smelly, their minds always fucked, their health failing, their lives on a downward spiral, and all this is the absolute truth.
More than often its a skewed view that doesn't allow for any measure of optimism or change of outlook, or improvement of skills or change of activity.
Without any of those, of course the situation will always be shit. Its like looking at a pile of shit, then letting it sit there then looking at it a while later and realizing its still there. Nothing changed, so why would you expect anything to change?
Anon often will imagine something coming into their lives like a woman and changing them, which doesn't happen. You either choose to change what you can about your life or things like social interaction simply don't matter. If you don't interact more and venture to try new ways of interaction what are you hoping to improve upon?
The book is useless if you don't apply it.
>>29646799
Yeah, same here, I think I'm a pretty swell guy, and I'd love to have friends like me or marry someone like me, but no dice.
>>29640224
This is my problem too. My only friend fits perfectly on what I consider interesting, and talking with him doesn't feel like a chore or something I have to force myself to do, but with normies is otherwise because you have to avoid certain words/subjects. Also most of them can't even follow your thought train, ending always forced to talk about stupid superficial shit.
>>29638443
Lurking normie here:
I agree with your points, but think there is another aspect to this which you have missed: people like interesting people with interesting stories.
I am good at telling stories, and the depth of my experience contains a lot of colourful memories, like that time I rode jetskis around the Whitsunday Islands, or that time I spent four days doing LSD in a cow paddock with a bunch of buddhists, or that time I shut down an awful tinder date by trying to get the girl to accept Jesus Christ as her lord and saviour, Or that time I stole a rowboat.
I think your methods for opening up and being more socially positive are a great start, but if the sum total of your life experiences are
> played a lot of video games
> watched a lot of anime
> debated anonymous strangers on a chinese cartoon website
They'll only take you so far...
But I hate myself but am totally disinterested by others at the same time. I agree with you on your hypothesis though. Whenever I try to be proactive and engage people in conversation I feel like I do all the legwork in terms of moving it forward, asking questions - but I always forget the answers, even the names of the people immediately. Probably because there is no sincerity. It's almost like I'm conducting a job interview. But I think sincerity is something you're practically born with or develop very early. I hate myself in part because I don't WANT what normal people seem to desire (or at least don't find it worth the effort) but feel as though I should. Not simply that I'm bad at attaining those same desires - though that is also true.
every time someone says something like "you have to love yourself if you want others to love you" what i hear is "please display some vanity so i don't feel so guilty about my own vanity"
