Art degree
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You are currently reading a thread in /r9k/ - ROBOT9001
You are currently reading a thread in /r9k/ - ROBOT9001
Why is art so undervalued in our society. It's the one thing I'm good at.
I can't math, I can't science, I can't engineer. But I can draw.
Why is my art degree worth so little. I've been laughed out of interviews for having an art degree.
What do I do /r9k/
>>29403623
I have no understanding of the "STEAM" meam
what do arts majors have to do with the others?
also the answer to your first question is called puritanism. murica never shook it off.
>>29403623
I appreciate art, and I think more artists should work together with stem fields. If you dont mind licing the not so wealthy lifestyle, ots cool. Artists NEVER live laivishly, but they enrish humanity as a whole, just the nature of the trade.
Painted/drawn art has no place in a world with photography. Look at modern art and it's decline from trying to be anything but a less practical form of photography.
Artsy/creative people only cater to themselves. If the world was filled with practical people no one would give a shit if every website was black and white
>>29403623
>STEAM
Absolutely no. Whoever made this should get deported immediately.
OP you're not on the same level of STEMfags. Stop trying to compare yourself to us.
>I've been laughed out of interviews for having an art degree
Good. I hope it stays that way.
>>29403623
yeah but do you enjoy it enough?
Like I was naturally good at music. But it didn't make me happy in the end because I found it came easy. So working on science/math (which I naturally sucked at) and getting gud at that brought me a lot more happiness/fulfillment in the end.
Sometime there is a difference between doing something because you're good at it, and doing something because you like it. Both might not necessarily overlap.
Artfags should get a STEM degree or leave to the third world where outdated bullshit is the norm. Arts add nothing practical to the world and should die forever.
Put down the guitars, pencils, and brushes and pick up a wrench you pretentious wastes of space. I don't want my tax money to go to people too full of themselves to do something useful. At least NEETs are self aware.
>>29403758
>Choosing painted drawn art was a mistake, I should've learned something useful like photography.
>Choosing photography was a mistake, I should've learned something useful like drawing/painting.
I've heard both of these things on /ic/ and /p/; the grass is always greener.
>inb4 both are useless
>"but they are?!"
Because your degree is more easily achievable. It holds less societal and financial impact for whatever company you work for. Arts degrees are typically representative that you know how to learn whereas STEM degrees teach you the very basics in terms of technical knowledge to be able to do the job.
My first internship as an engineer I was designing piping systems. I could not have even come close to attempting this without my third year fluids class and without doing well in the class. I'm sure some art majors can say the same about their work, but I wouldn't be surprised if most couldn't.
Please don't take this as a hostile post as I simply don't think everyone should be going into STEM, I'm just trying to honestly answer your question.
>>29403900
>STEM is superior to art and everyone involved in it.
>They're the ones who are pretentious and full of themselves, but we're superior to you! Aha
Like potterywhich you are incapable of doingpracticalfag ^:)
anyboy doing an actual arts major here?
>do you like painting? print making? performance?
>what kind of sutff you do how do you think you will be relevant in the medium?
>>29403758
Surreal, symbolist, abstract art--art that is just supposed to be visually stimulating, art that I might add cannot be made by photography--will always have a place in the world because people value artistic expression. Art never progresses, it only changes.
>>29403900
>the only things that matter and that should be valued are things that have a direct practical effect on us
Cool, man, you're right. Lets all just be wageslave drones. After our 40 hour workweek (where we were constantly erect by how practical we are and how much we were helping society) we should all go home and sit in a dark room and watch the latest popular movie (funded by the state!) or play the latest brain dead video game to keep us distracted and forever toiling.
>>29404191
>>29403758
I'll also add to my point. Look at this piece here >>29404155, can this be made with a camera? No. No it cannot. Is it still visually interesting? Can it provide intellectual stimulation to people. Of course. The quality painted mediums bring to art will always have a place.
>>29403623
>why is art so undervalued in our society
modern artists with no integrity who just make junk
and a generally empty culture that measures people by how much magical green paper they earn
>>29404333
>modern
more like postmodern
at least modernism had a sense of emotion or thought
>>29403679
It's to keep Feminists quiet. "See, look at all these women with a STEAM degree!"
>>29404155
Yeah, I'm a Senior painting major, and I think about if I made the right decision all the time.
Mind you, I completely loathe everything that I make, yet somehow I must be good because people eat up anything I make
I've had so many people say my work is marketable, last year I got nominated to go to Yale post graduation,
but I cannot fucking stand all the tumblrite whores that go to school with me and think that paintings of their dogs or cats have any substance or value whatsoever.
You can honestly learn more on your own, but a degree gets you in galleries and other places, so technically it's worth it?
life is suffering
>>29404293
Hey, the system works.
>>29403623
Become a graphic designer I guess.
Companies need people to make logos and build brochures and stuff for them
>>29404384
Can you post some of your work?
>>29403623
>Why is my art degree worth so little. I've been laughed out of interviews for having an art degree.
Because you do not need to go to school to learn it.
You need teachers yes, but good art teachers are hard to find and none of them teach in schools or colleges or universities.
Art is still valued if you go in the right places. Freelancing, special effects, animation, manga/comics.
I wish I could draw because I sure as fuck would of attempted my own graphic novel by now.
>>29403623
Work hard on digital arts and design, learn some basic code from free resources, and go into website and graphic design.
>>29404350
>>29404333
Its also about the circle jerk that galleries and rich people without taste do.
>>29404384
maybe your stuff isnt that bad, but you have better eye than people buying your stuff, I dont think I could learn better out of school, I get close to my teachers and I have learned a lot about painting and drawing than I could alone, not skill or tool stuff but about learning how to see or how to enjoy more abstract and gestual stuff.
>>29404395
Does it though? I'm not sure about that.
>>29404384
Please post some of your pieces
>>29403623
Want to start a webcomic with me? I can write as long as you're willing to draw. The style and execution would be however you will it, just don't ask me to change the story. How about it stranger?
>gets degree in a hobby
>shocked that nobody takes him seriously
w-why is everyone laughing at my model train degree!! life is soooooo unfair ;_;
>>29404479
No offense, but yeah thats kind of garbage. At least you are self-aware. Curious though, how did you make the blue texture?
>>29404531
Ashes mixed with the paint, but thank you for agreeing, I don't know why people say it's good or anything, honestly anyone can do art as long as you can string a story along with it
Art is undervalued because artists are more prone to express how they feel and question societal standards or prioritize feelings and intangible things like beauty, love, and fantasy, than structure an money.
(Of course it's a generalization, but an observation too).
The rich elites don't particularly like that stuff going on. They would rather have people in a rat race, buying name brand and the popular store brands for food. They would rather promote the "hard worker" state of mind and the "zombie" state of heart to stay in power.
How come women rush to the arts but men are pretty much the ones making everything notable? Every art class I've been to is 90% women (as are the people topping the classes), but outside of school men seem to dominate things.
I'm honestly curious why there's such a divide.
>>29404536
>>29404479
I guess they didnt said marketeable like a compliment.
>>29403623
It's not art that's not appreciate, it's IMAGINATION too. You're right OP, art is a skill, it takes time and practice to get good at. That should be appreciated. But since people lack imaginations they can't even imagine the value in that skill set, what translates into other skills. There is pratically and utility in art but most people lack in imagination to see that while claiming it's not useful.
However two things have happened, one is that the "artist" has become a meme-caricture. Basically hacks that just want to be called artists, make shitty art and then make up excuses for it that art is this or that. It turns the average person off art altogether. This has become such the platitude and meme of sorts, we're kind of stuck with it. Politics are ruining art too since every artist seems to think they need to be a liberal too in order to be one. Again this all falls under the "artist" ruining the very idea and concept of art for people. These people that use art for attention.
Why take it seriously when the artists themselves don't act like it?
I do personally because I value art and creative thinking. That's not typical these days when everyone only thinks in association with stereotypes, normies and robots both do this as you see with this thread.
>>29404569
numbers and facts are confusing
>>29403623
Let me break it down in as few words as possible.
Everyone can be an "artist" or play "guitar" or write something. An uneducated opinion holds more value in our society than the word of a scholar. A statisticians research will be thrown out in favor of a personal truth. No one is invalidated in their own little bubbles, but no one is entirely right.
The "arts" are the epitome of that right now, in the media, in the public, etc. etc. because not everyone can become a biomechanical engineer. But anyone can shit on a canvas, look up a few terms in a dictionary, call daddy, and ask him to display it at a gallery where it would be sold for $50,000. Of course I'm exaggerating but its something along those lines.
Have you seen a real classical guitarist in the eye of the public recently, a scholar on the subject? How about someone who studies art history or literature pertaining to a particular culture? The "arts" have devolved into a shit throwing arena free-for-all comprised of social media, upcoming generations lack of ability to think independently combined with their need for purpose (general human bull shit that most people out grow), and last but not least, condescending douchebags who lack real skill when it comes to arts.
I can play BWV1007-1012 on my steel string acoustic, but I don't know music theory, I can only read tab. So I decided to pick up a few books and I'm going back to University this fall to study music, and go on to graduate studies for guitar and its history. My goal is to be a composer, and to make guitar a bit more serious in orchestral arrangements.
So right now, your arts degree in terms of practicality, is dildos. Unless you're a scholar continuing study, you aren't worth the hire. Good luck OP, enjoy that big black dick in your ass known as "the times".
Try continuing study or becoming a teacher. Or working in a museum, something scholastic.
>>29404569
women art is 90% feminist bullshit, that misses the point of art and goes directly to activism, they never get the "representation its stronger than presentation" thing and so their work is always shallow and obvious
>>29404560
I can see why someone might think it is interesting. It has a neat texture, but it's really surface level, I can't subscribe to the amount of groupthink needed to enjoy a piece like that in depth. Art doesn't need to be realistic to be good, in fact it's competely useless because of cameras. Good art, to me is somewhere in the middle--where abstraction blends into the real world. Pure abstraction like that painting might look kinda cool, but thats it, nothing more.
>>29403623
You're fucking retarded people only care about STEM, art degrees don't mean shit unless you've actually made something, are people buying your art op?
>>29403623
>Doing an arts degree
>Still posting in here
Fuck, you should at least go in to a field where autism is valued, which includes all of STEM. You'll be a NEET forever.
>>29404615
What a shallow and generic comment
>good at math and science
>still choose to be an artist because it's more interesting
A degree doesn't mean shit. It's all about having connections
>>29403919
As a student who has a bachelors in art I'd agree with this.
Our skills are pathetic and specific.
>>29403623
Drawing as a skill doesn't make you an artist. You need to get more abstract than that. Nobody gives a fuck about photorealism.
As for why art isn't valued - who would pay $1,000 for a painting that takes a week to make? Would you ever sell enough prints off of it to make a $1,000 profit? Multiply that by 52 weeks a year and that's what you'd need for middle class artist pay. People aren't buying $500 paintings every year. It's not so much a consumable. You buy a handful of nice pieces and keep them for decades. It's also something where only the very famous make a lot of money, and that's down to just dozens of living artists, not too many more dead artists.
Can you monetize art? Sure. See Etsy. Look at commercial artists. Someone needs to design ads, interiors, magazine layouts, the urban environment, etc. All of these are valued. If you can use art to catch consumers' attention, perfect. They buy stuff, that makes the company money. A Coke commercial might generate $50 million of profit off of $10 million in advertising expenses (TV time, salaries, etc). Name a single "artist" that pulled in that much money while alive.
>>29404686
what a shallow and generic reply, I'm not talking out my ass, when I say it, a lot of women in the career think that their stuff its alredy special just because it has a genre motif, but dont really care about it being good, neither in concept nor technique.
>>29404746
Some bitch pulled that for making a logo.
It all comes down to the reality that you cannot really teach art. Maybe digital art, you can teach them the programs. They can translate that into something magical. But this is rare.
The reality is that higher education makes an easy dollar out of graphic design / art degrees.
Art degrees are scams. It's like women's studies and history degrees. You know they're not markettable. Just to sell an easy "bachelors degree"
>>29404786
nevermind, she only made something over a million for drawing a tick for nike
>>29404722
This. I scored high placements in math and writing but I lacked discipline and hated structure so I failed because I could never turn in my assignments on time.
Art degrees don't really show anything. Any idiot can draw, write, or make a song that shows technical competency. However, they get nowhere because they have no vision. Or they delude themselves into thinking they have one, leading to those obnoxious tumblr types who do nothing but shallow faux symbolism and claim nobody gets art anymore when they don't sell for obvious reasons.
You can't really learn to be creative and imaginative. Even drugs like LSD won't make you a deep psychedelic genius. It takes some serious internal exploration that you must do yourself.
>>29404597
I really like it. Is the background a watercolor on canvas and the subject in acrylic marker?I'll show myself the door...
>>29404840
Why did you quote me sir?
>>29404853
It was watered down acrylic, thanks anon
>>29404155
Just graduated. Sculpture mostly. Collage as well.
Going for my Masters though. So it will be another two years.
I just kinda go by what interests me, and merging those interests to create new combinations.
>>29404868
I guess I was just speaking from my own, similar scenario. I now pursue art because, despite being good at those things.
You can ignore me if I'm not making sense.
My favorite artists come from Indonesia and Thailand.
They make absolutely stunning work, but have to do commissions for sandwiches.
They're not part of any scene so they will never amount to anything, and there are a few hundred million artists who can now draw photorealistically using a tablet.
>>29404799
But we've thrown the baby out with the bath water in thinking art or history have no value because the education system uses those subjects to hide lazy/charlatan people behind.
I made this in 3 hours while the artist I copied took 40 to make her Trump one.
I'm sure if I spent more time it wouldve came out a lot better. But I couldn't endure painting naked Hillary Clinton for the amount of time that I did.
This is proof that all leftists are insane and slow
>>29404384
>I completely loathe everything that I make, yet somehow I must be good because people eat up anything I make
i think this is a typical artist pov honestly. most people hate what they make but everyone else laps it up. i think it has to do with it not being exactly what you pictured in your head. you see every little flaw as something bigger than it really is.
>>29405001
political art its a really cheap way to get to the top.
>>29404976
Painting photo realistically isn't a skill. Creating a new abstraction that's never been done before is. Most artists spend 400 hours to produce a work of generic shit.
The ones that actually make it can spend a fraction of that time creating something new and innovative.
Sadly art schools don't teach you to have imagination. That only comes from within.
An artist's imagination is what makes them renowened not there ability to replicate a photo.
>>29404371
>women with a STEAM degree make 70% of what men make with one
>>29405084
A bag of cocaine and a smile is even cheaper :^]
You want to talk about art being laughed at? Try a degree in Classical music. Yes, classical music the most underrated loathed and stereotyped musical genre. The genre that puts you to sleep at night. Normie fags tell me they like CM because it helps them fall asleep. The music that was being blasted at night to chase away homeless people from a street. I'm a composer of instrumental music. My music would never stand a chance in the market. Not when everyone is tuning into generic BOP BOP music full of watch me whips and nae naes. Not even rock music stands a chance nowadays in the "music market". I create music for music sake. Not for some stupid capitalist ideology of making money.
>>29405157
if you want an advice, make your music good, and remember that you need to be relevant to the date, clasical music its ggod and its important for music history but if you do that in this year, your work isnt worth, the same way a realistic painting is not, you can be inspired by CM but you need to put some new cards in the table.
>>29405157
I got an idea for you nigger.
Why not invent a new genre of music and call it neo classical.
>>29405252
sounds like a life's worth of work for little payoff
>>29405157
You should make atonal music since that's where the real money is. Be the next Bartok :^)
>>29405273
im sorry buddy but thats what arts are made off, do something eutifull and then kill yourself so we can apreciate after your death.
>>29405325
do you feel like you're someone to judge what "art is made of"
citation needed
>>29405100
The appeal of abstract art is in the eye of the beholder though, and those with influence in the "art world" seem to like anuses in varying hues.
Anyone can look at a photo realistic work and recognise the talent there, even if it is just a matter of applying time.
The artists im talking about are fantasy artists though, who make unique scenes and dreamscapes with sublime colouring.
No one will ever know their names, not even me off the top of my head.
>>29404569
They do it because they saw a TV character do art that one time. They never progress past the dilettante phase. They are an artist not because they make art, but because they own this totally cute beret and easel and read juxtapose. Men are the only true artists.
>>29405334
so you want it to be easy and fast?
>>29405273
Not at all.
Take a classical cord.
Add some 80s syth and shit. Fuse that with vaporwave bullshit.
And then add a soothing wub wub.
Combine that with tropical bullshit. Then throw in some gothic shit.
Combine New Order with Mozart, add some light skrillex, then throw in some enya, then a tinge of 70s dad rock and bam you got some insane shit that'll make you bank.
>>29405341
If I die poor it was all worth it.
>>29403699
How exactly are the arts in any way relevant to science, tech or mathematics? Engineering I guess a little bit related but only really in terms of marketability and stuff like that, engineers working for the government are usually full utilitarian
>>29405537
Artists conceptualize new ideas from their imaginations using outside the box thinking that a scientist lacks due to years of conditioning in a system that has a shit ton of rules occupying there brain space.
You also need to know math and science to create illustrious works of art.
You need to know mathamatics for perspective
Psychology and color theory to create a visually striking piece
Philosophy to create a meaningful work of art.
Artists are typically decades ahead of science in terms of thinking and logic.
A great artist inspires a great scientist to create innovation.
>>29404722
I got a real degree and do sculptures on my own time. Composition you read about and you do it. Art can't be taught in a classroom. It's pointless to get a degree in now that we have these new fangled public library things and places what sell materials used in the creation of art.
Metalworking is expensive. Instead of selling to support myself my art is pure and for its own sake. I might make money off of some pieces, but I'm definitely not ever hurting for cash. It's the last thing on my mind once I get deep into a project.
I always tell people to never do what they love. What they love is most likely stupid if they are anything like me. Do what makes the most money since money is the only thing that really matters. Then then can do more of that stupid thing they love than would ever be possible if it were their job, they'll enjoy doing it more, and they'll have better stupid thing accessories to do their stupid thing with.
You are fucking retarded if you dont know you can do math or engineering easilly, but they are oversaturated fielda
There are no jobs in art
>>29405675
>Said the guy that collects bridge tolls in a tiny booth for 50 years for 50 hours a week because the money was good.
Should have gone the commercial art direction brah. I still get to paint and draw stuff I like while getting paid for it. Life's pretty good.
I love art, but I would never get an art degree. With that logic, I should go to film school because I like movies.
Looks like OP spelled STEM wrong, what a retard.
>>29405649
An engineer fabricating something they imagined, or a computer scientist writing a program to test an algorithm they invented, or an architect creating the blueprints for a new building do not count as conceptualising new ideas from their imagination?
The arts do not have a monopoly on creativity, you cretin.
>>29403623
Art is undervalued because its shit nowadays.
>expensive/"high culture" art is modern garbage
>Most independent artists are boring hipsters who put uninspiring politics into their boring artwork
Art used to have sanctity and meaning, but that's been destroyed.
I hated art classes but love art. Being taught art at school stunts imagination. It's much better to do another degree you would find interesting and do some art on the side.
>>29405649
>artists are decades ahead of scientists
KEK
>>29405829
blame internet
>tfw I fell for the STEM MEME
Just fucking study econ or business like the normies and leave us autists alone
No one actually respects stem and gives a fuck that its hard as fuck.
>>29403623
its undervalued because it contributes nothing, it doesnt serve a purpose and its not hard
artists are a dime a dozen and are the most unnecessary of any field, art is not essential to the functionality of society
>>29405649
Artists tend to lack creativity. Scientists constantly view things outside the box. Nothing is sacred in the search for truth. We slay sacred cows just to see if it will bleed. Meanwhile edgy neomarxist 6649624 shits on a canvas and calls it subversive because he's copying a guy who that on canvas to make fun of the idea that art is shit so here's literal shit who is copying the guy who saw art was shit and tried to pass off shit as art.
Besides that look at history. The STEMeme arose from the cold war and arms race. Form follows function, no need for art there. Art has immense value from a psychological warfare point of view, but when it's comes to drawing blood, as in actually drawing blood, the sword is far mightier than the pen.
>>29405861
It's not the internets fault it's the infestation of the arts by modern "artists" and people who think everything is subjective. Those people malevolently experimented with art in destructive ways and made it into the pathetic abomination it is today.
>>29405894
Art used to be great before Marxist bullshit took it over.
>>29405853
A smart one usually is. Look at Davinci you fucking idiot
>>29405808
Which they sourced there ideas from other things, typically art to synthesize and achieve.
>>29403623
Art also includes music and acting. Anyone can do art. If you want to make money doing it, you have to literally be the best.
>>29405945
Are you seriously asserting that all scientists are incapable of original creative thought?
>>29405945
>Davinci
Have examples of any who are still alive? Most artists today are unfortunately not very bright at all, and that is due to the culture surrounding art. I really like art too that's why it's a shame.
>>29405894
That doesn't apply to every artist.
I made this piece referencing the water levels rising coinciding with how apple will have a an AI store simply calling it the Apple I. Or A.I. for short.
I should be given a million bucks by Steve Jobbs ghost for coming up with the idea.
>>29405744
If that's what works for you there's no shame in it. The money spends the same whether it's earned pushing pencils or drawing with them. I think 50 hours is excessive, but first and foremost always follow the money. With an eye on early retirement the more you make means the sooner you retire. Usually pay is tied to time so it can work when you consider compounding interest. Every hour extra worked is 2,3, maybe even 4 hours earlier you retire. I plan on retiring at 40 to live off of investments and maybe do a little consulting and sell my pieces on the side just for fun. We're fortunate to live in a time where early retirement is so easily achieved. People making $30k a year can live better than a majority of kings and emporers, they just choose not to. Endless entertainment for next to no cost, nearly infinite variety of exotic fruits, vegetables, meats, and sweets, and not just that, but storage and preservation methods that enhance food longevity to months or even years longer than previous methods. Here's the craziest part. California King beds, running hot water, electric lighting, combustible engines, and too much more to even list.
I'm not even a minimalist, I consider myself a maximalist. I'm going to live a life of disgusting excess, sloth, and gluttony that would make much of the royalty of antiquity appear as ascetics, and I'm going to do it while not working and drawing 25% below the National average salary. I don't know what poor people are complaining about. They have life made.
>>29406078
That's actually an interesting pic you got there. I know you are being sarcastic but I like it senpai.
>>29406004
No, I'm asserting that scientists are influenced by art in a lot of ways.
Looking at art with an analytical lense that a scientist has subconsciously fuels the creative part of there minds creating grey matter, and expanding there creative minds to conceptualize innovative ideas.
If they were outrightly inspired by a work of art, directly or indirectly doesn't change the fact that they weren't.
But a scientist with a family and mortgage probably doesn't have the time nor the energy to fully explore what they can potentionally do.
Also years of beaurcacry in their respecting fields makes them grow cynical deep down inside.
On top of keeping on top of all the innovation that happens on a regular basis. It can be overwhelming.
Just to point this out, this is probably one of the most intellectual threads r9k has ever had. Im surprised.
>>29405941
this, cultural relativism killed the hubris and competition that made art so great
creativity is dead.
>>29406166
You make a good point that I hadn't considered, that art inspires scientists.
>>29406203
I know senpai
>>29403623
People are so conditioned to run the rat race as hard as they can (read: taking the hardest degrees possible, working 12+ hour shifts) that doing less is perceived as being irresponsible, a loser. I don't know if you're actually asking for advice here considering that bait pic. If you want real advice, get a job to sustain yourself while you hone your craft into some kind of a niche.
>>29406166
Its just bizarre how you have everything backwards. Artists are the ones constrained and cynical. You won't get anywhere unless you're in lockstep with the sjws and spend every waking second virtue signaling in hopes of joining the inner circle.
The scientists look at things as they actually are and noticing incongruity with how things are perceived they seek to bring them into harmony. The idea of earth revolving around the sun is a huge paradigm shift, one which influenced art, since art can only be influenced. It has not, cannot, and will not ever influence anything it any meaningful way.
>>29403623
because in all honesty there isnt really a gatekeeper for arts degrees. they take little effort compared to worthwhile degrees and afford no sort of marketable skills. plus, most good artists dont even bother going to college or getting degrees in anything related to it they just do it and have a passion for it and find a way to market it. this is one of those things that a degree for is pointless.
>>29406329
Not him but I would argue that art in the past did (and does) influence scientists. Art takes abstract concepts and packages them up into understandable art/literature, and it inspires scientists. Modern art is trash but it used to be something else.
>>29406376
Those abstract ideas are science. So art is basically taking science, watering it down then selling it as fun novelties. Nothing against art here of course, I have my favorite artists and multiple prints throughout my house. I just recognize that science influences art and that it is impossible for the reverse to occur.
>>29403623
Assuming your art is actually good, I'll give you this:
You can teach any fucking mouth breather how to code, you can't teach them to make art.
Most STEM subjects can be learned, art can't, for the most part.
>>29403623
>undervalued
Because it's seen as optional, and not vital to humanity's existence (which is stupid, since humans desperately need something to occupy their time with besides being drones). Because it's seen as easy ("Just draw something." "Wow math is hard!"), even though it's not an most basic applications of math are pretty accessible but people get meme'd out of trying.
>I can't math, I can't science, I can't engineer
You could, probably.
> I've been laughed out of interviews for having an art degree
Tell them that literally everything around them is art. The cup they're drinking from? Artist. Books? Photographs? Computer graphics? Buildings? Art.
Depending on the nature of your art degree you can shoehorn in other skills you have (ex. you may have worked with computer programs and that shows competency with technology, you may have worked with physical mediums so you understand how to work with tools, etc.).
>>29406444
That's not the case for math. Any jackass can throw together color and lines together to make a pleasing composition. To get a PhD in STEM you must become the most knowledgeable person in the entire world about one particular thing. In something like math this takes unfathomable levels of creativity and mental prowess. Whereas most science seems to be about answering questions and engineering solving problems, math is giving answers to questions not yet asked and solutions to problems not yet identified. It's like they're in a whole other world from us mere mortals.
>>29404722
trust me, nothing is more interesting than heavy maths, not even nutting is
>>29406304
I hope perhaps maybe one day in the not so distant future I can create a piece that can be inspiring although the cynic in mean keeps me pessimistic.
It doesn't hurt to throw yourself in a pond once in a blue to learn how to float.
>>29406294
I would post more work, but artists are vultures looking to for that next big thing.
You won't see a person's maximum creativity in a thread on 4chan.
>>29406160
Thanks a lot famalan. It means a lot for someone to like my work.
>>29406145
I used to work on wallstreet before I made the jump to art. I had to be sure I was able to float in something else before taking the risk in developing myself to be an artist. It just so happens that my business skills and thinking of future markets gave me enough creative fuel and interpersonal skills to actually go for it. I'm also only 22 and recently sold a piece of mine to a TV producer for several grand.
It's not much but it's a decent start. I also have been in connections with owners that own cable networks and billionaires that were interested in buying my work. But nothing happened with that since I got cold feet and wanted to create a visual masterpiece incorporating all my life's philosophies into one piece that can stand out from the rest. And im hoping I can do it by the time in 23. If all else fails I got some good stories out of it. Im numb to it all and scared at the same time. Its liberating to know that I'm just a canvas away from achieving what I want out of life, but it's also feels surreal at the same time.
If I fail, then I'll get up and get back it again. And if I die, at least I died trying. And if im crippled then I'll move onto something else. But I don't want that. Its either you give it your all or you don't do it at all.
Do graphic design or starve.
Do illustration if your good or starve.
>>29406444
Your an idiot. Anyone can learn how to Draw and design through practice.
I think art is undervalued because it's sort of the last vestige of free thought, which most people hate. If you want to make the world better, you meet resistance. So you try to signal that desire without setting people off, by asking them to engage fiction, thought experiments, and emotions under the pretense of "this isn't serious though." Any questions a work of art creates can be plausibly denied as people reading too heavily into something you didn't mean. It's a really sophisticated method of virtue signalling when you have to walk on egg shells.
And nobody is paid to "be an artist" they're paid to "do such and such". Much like "scientist" or "teacher" is a general title that's different from your actual job in society.
>anyone can do art, not many can do science/math
>anyone can learn science/math, not many can do art
So which one is it faggots
>>29403900
I used to be a physics major but I realized art is much more important and that I can do much more for the world with music. Our society doesn't value art and it is a shame. This whole stem nonsense and trying to keep up with china is killing culture. Art is what makes us human and we have forgotten that. It is very sad to watch.
Art degrees are less useful than an impressive portfolio and word of mouth. About the only exception seems to be art involving architecture.
>>29406738
Art takes talent, math and science doesn't really. Math and science just takes time to perfect and once you are really good, then you can do good things. Art requires even more time and effort, but you must have actual talent to make anything good.
>>29406738
Anyone can do art. That's something you should probably consider judging by your critical thinking skills.
>>29406697
It's harder to pick up on the older you get if your starting from scratch.
>>29406329
Sjws aren't the ones that actually buy art. Most SJWs are what they preach, rascist, psychotic and absolutely sexist and they act the way they do to feel an "intellectual sense of superiority" for acting in a contrarian way. On top of being severely broke.
And also, you shouldn't discredit someone without knowing the full extent of there logical reasoning. Maybe I read sciencedaily on every given day and have that same scientific and analytical mind that you have.
>>29406745
>keep up with china
Lel, Chinese are some of the least creative fucks in the world. Their science is a joke. The entire Chinese economy can be summed up as 'watch what America does then try to do it cheaper, no matter the repercussions'. They couldn't innovate if their lives depended on it. America wants to be the best because we feel we have to be the best. It's the protestant work ethic and an almost pathological perfectionism and over achieving spirit that fuels us. We're trying to keep up with China about as much as we are some other inconsequential thing me don't even think about enough to be able to provide as an example here.
>>29406566
Not neccessarily. You don't have to be a scientist or mathematician by profession to have an understanding for it. You can have it as a hobby.
And any jackass can do that and catch lightning in a bottle, but it matters if they can do it consistently which takes a lot of skill and beyond mortal comprehension to achieve.
>>29406806
Wrong. Art just takes time. No talent involved. Science requires completely new ways of viewing the world. That's something that can't be taught. That's why much of science's greatest discoveries alone from accidents and the scientist noticed something bigger was at play.
>>29406806
>>29406836
>relying on /r9k/ to answer a question
shiggy diggy doo!!!
>>29406942
i'm not saying that literally. there was the idea that china and all asia was leaving us in the dust and that was the impetus for no child left behind and reforms that dropped art teaching out of schools
>>29406895
That is wrong too.
Everyone here could become graphic designers with time. Its a trade skill.
Math PhD candidate checking in. AMA
> can math
> can science
> can read well/write kinda okay
> can draw
> can paint
> can music theory well enough to write simple musics
> can kinda piano
> can synth
> can mix and record
I chose to be a noise musician/performance artist instead because I don't really give a shit about anything but I can paint convincingly and write sick synthpop tunes.
>>29406984
>science requires real talent
>says most discoveries were made by accident
anyway, youre wrong
I used to be a faggot like you that thought science was number one priority and that art was dumb but I grew up. maybe you'll grow out of it too.
>>29406984
That's a baffling and ignorant summisation on your end. To actually be considered a great artist, you constantly have to have an innovative world view to achieve. Perhaps in the overarchingness in the whole entirety of the post modern art world you can make that tautology, but it's incorrect because you deliberately discredit the artists that are out there that actually do what you just said. Perhaps all the bad art you find in galleries are there due to the fact the good pieces get sold quickly or privately.
>>29407128
>Implying great art isn't entirely determined by the aristocracy
>>29407161
lower class people are usually artistically illiterate
>>29406942
There is a lot of truth to your comment. The Chinese have no culture as well.
>>29407107
gud 4our u
>>29407112
>>29407128
Nah', you guys are definitely wrong. I'd love to continue arguing why apples are better than oranges but I already stayed up too late. I need my goy credits if I ever want to be a famous scientist and it's finals week so I'm off to bed.
>>29403623
Art isn't undervalued. Your only skill is worth very little on its own. Unfortunately for you, you need to create something useful. Maybe its entertaining and useful in that way, or maybe it can be used to market something that serves a purpose. But I have no sympathy for whining artists who never learned how to provide for themselves and deliberately went to college to learn doodles.
>>29407182
True, wealthy people have always had greater access to a wide variety of art and culture. However, there is something inherently valuable in things that appeal to the masses. These kinds of works can say a lot about the human condition and even psychology.
>>29407068
Being able to manipulate a pic in Photoshop can happen in a 12 class course. Being able to create something new from scratch takes years of studying.
And you completely defunt the fact that alcoholism is quite popular with millenials.
But which is harder, becoming a scientist and making it into a living or becoming an artist?
Different skill sets have to be aquired to achieve success in both fields. To placate your pretentious beliefs and believe one is more difficult then the other shows how much you really lack in understanding.
>>29407239
Your stubborness will be the folly of your entire life. Being blindspotted like this will get you nowhere.
>>29407112
>that thought science was number one priority and that art was dumb but I grew up
>oh no! im deadly sick with the common cold
>good thing i have this art and not some dumb medicine :^)
this is you. you're this retard
>>29407258
getting a career as an artist is definitely much harder than getting a science career
>>29407295
youre right, we can only have one
>resorting to lame arguments
>>29403623
Because art degrees are fucking jokes Anon. It's the same reason you get laughed out of an interview with a women/black/asian/gay studies degree. Because you shouldn't need a fucking degree to do these things.
All an art degree tells someone is you spent tens of thousands of dollars on shit that has zero to do with drawing. When all you had to do was fucking practice drawing, then take a single community college class about how to put together a good portfolio and how to interview properly.
What should you do? Learn to interview. Make a portfolio that isn't dog shit. Make a shitty webcomic or something on the side so you have some experience doing something other than wasting money getting a worthless degree. Stop blaming literally everyone, but yourself you fucking faggot.
>>29407331
so you're not arguing that science isn't top priority? could have fooled me.
>>29407161
That's an autistic viewpoint to have. There's no secret club made of rich people that determines what's art and what's not. People individually decide what they want to purchase that they like. It's a matter of having a cetain plug.
>>29407182
Same can be said about the wealthy and elite.
Intellect is the only thing that matters when it comes to art.
>>29407358
No thats what you think, and you are juvenile for thinking so
>>29407408
im using your words here, anon
maybe should think a little next time, before you say something retarded ;3
>>29407456
way to go buddy
real happy 4 u
>>29407484
why are you happy for me?
>>29407497
words cant express, friend
>>29407295
Science requires experimentation just as much as art requires it. They're both equally important for different reasons. Science is important for the body, and art is important for the mind and soul. Both are equally just as important to one another.
Also, defeating diseases is more about your mind and spirit just as much as medicine. Doctors say laughter is the best medicine because its true. Being positive helps you recover more quickly and in some circumstances without the need of medicine then being negative. And making someone laugh is an art in itself.
At the end of it all, were all artists with different kinds of canvases. A scientist is an artist that paints with a microscope, a writer paints using words, an artist with a brush. A comedian with a mic. Doesn't mean that they're good at it, but nonetheless an artist. Everything is an artform.
>>29407555
>Also, defeating diseases is more about your mind and spirit just as much as medicine.
stopped reading here. you obviously have no clue what you're talking about.
>>>/x/
>>29407536
sounds like you need an art degree :)
>>29407609
A positive person gets sick less then a negative person. A positive person would get better quicker then a negative person suffering from the same disease taking the same medicine.
Some guy had to spend 4 years in art school just to draw the mockups for your Ford Festiva in the studio.
Art degrees are not useless!
>>29407555
>Everything is an artform.
I'd like to think anything that requieres some show of mastery, skill and/or creativity can be art.
I can apreciate an anatomicaly correct handmade drawing, a -40 dB return loss antenna, a beautful simphony, a 99.7% efficiency engineered turbomachine impeller, a brillant math proof, a masterfully executed football play, and so on.
Art is "undervalued" because its scope is too limited and too difficult to monetize unless combined with other things such as data visualization and interface design. I might take "STEAM" as more than a joke if they made it "STEaM". Most STEM people make fun of artists, but some amount of artistic ability is useful for communicating/displaying information.
>>29407837
regardless of that being true or not, both people use medicine and get healthy. point being, they need medicine not fucking art.
>>29407857
>mastery, skill and/or creativity
Here's your problem OP you just need to master, have a bit of skill, or be mildly creative and you can be an artist. No where in this completely reasonable and agreeable post did he say it required a very expensive piece of paper hanging above your desk.
Also I can't believe this thread has over 100 replies and not one fucking person asked to see your art. How about you post some scans?
>>29403623
I'm good at art. Passable at math. Became an engineer because I wanted to make functional art. No one likes an artist
>>29403623
>Bohr picture of an atom that has been outdated for almost A CENTURY now
>technology represented by a fucking ELECTRICAL PLUG
>a SINGLE GEAR with a hole so large that it will probably snap under its own weight
>all of math represented by a literal meme
The sad part is that I would be okay with the math image if that pi stood for the prime counting function or any of the many projection maps, but no, it probably means LOL I'M SO NERDY I LIKE 2 EAT PI (PIE) XDD
Both science and art seem like empty endeavors to me. The end of science will be a world where nothing is left to know or conquer, and no one ever dies except out of boredom. Art is a lie, pursuing some nebulous kind of truth that can apparently be found by arranging media in increasingly esoteric fashion. When both are fulfilled, what will be left except to die or destroy it all to do again?
>>29408256
You don't know true anger pal. At my school, some dumbfucks decided that the logo for electronic eng. class should be pic.
>>29408276
you understand surprisingly little about both science and art
even assuming your premise were correct, then what would be the point of doing anything? what are you doing with your life that is so much more fulfilling? rhetorical question btw, i'm not even judging; the point is that you gotta fill up the time from now until you die with something that interests you
we're not gonna see the day when your hypothetical situation would happen so why worry about that?
Autism; STEMspergs are basically autistic and will never step out of the cave.
>>29403758
muh practicality durka durka
>>29403825
You're right; you're below the majority of people.
>>29403900
WAAAAAAAAAAAAAAAAAH WHY DONT YOU FOLLOW MUH DOSH CAPITALISM MONEY MONEY UTILITARIANISM >>29403919
>Because your degree is more easily achievable
False.
>>29404595
Somebody doesn't understand art, lazy dumbasses.
>>29408256
Yeah, the only one that makes sense is art being represented with a rocket ship.
>>29405001
>that giant black dick
Also can you link the trunp pic you were referring to?
>>29408375
But it is easy. Of course, if you want to be a good artist it will not be easy, but to pass you don't have to be good because "muh subjectivity".
Skill trumps talent
>>29408375
>false
Elaborate douche
>>29403623
Because STEM does stuff A doesn't. Also, art is in no way undervalued. Take a look at all of the amateur artists making a living off of the internet and all of the celebrity entertainers that get paid fuckloads.
>>29405675
YOU SHOULD ONLY LIVE TO MAKE MONEY IF YOU DO ANYTHING ELSE YOUR STUPID YOU FUCKING IDIOT JFC ITS 2016 WHY ARENT YOU IN STEM YET!!!!!!1?!?1?!?1?1
>>29405868
STEM isn't hard, it's for the mindless.
The mindless can learn a process.
>>29405894
>Scientists constantly view things outside the box
No they do not, they refuse to question their disgusting ideology. Tell a filthy empiricist that everything they believe is wrong, and they attack you; they're pathetic little cavedwellers
>>29406004
They are; empiricists are as creative as a photocopier.
>>29406329
>The scientists look at things as they actually are
no they aren't lol
>I DUN SEEN IT SO IT MUST B TROO
>>29406566
Wrong, it is all based upon fallacious nonsense that they never dare question, and thereby they are slaves to their ideology.
>>29406984
Empiricists only see the world one way, because they are autistic trash.
>>29407295
Empiricism does not confirm empiricism; try again.
>>29407555
Empiricists are not artists, they are walking tools.
>>29408276
Science does not lead to any knowledge, it only leads to egostroking.
>>29408493
No it's not, how about you stop speaking about your local community college or STEMsperg school, and look beyond that.
Of course, STEMspergs cannot see beyond anything.
>>29408539
There is no skill in empiricism, it's mindless busywork and monetization.
>>29405945
>uses example to prove artists are ahead of scientists
>long dead 1 in a fifty billion multifield genius polymath who's also was a mixture of STEM and arts.
>>29403758
Art should exist to convey interesting ideas of the real world giving people a thought making their life more enjoyable, and an artist should never just be an artist, people should be much more independent. Though I bet most stem fags couldn't do actual practical things for shit, the job a stem graduate seeks is to manage the numbers on some bullshit company trying to reduce their taxes or some shit, none of them produce anything directly they actually need to survive (except maybe t or e)
>>29408559
Literal children can get a doctorate in a STEM field, but none can do anything actually interesting when it comes to art.
The opinions of bohemian Young Hegelians (nihilists, marxists, those types) don't matter because they're a literal passing meme that will be gone soon, people are contrarians and soon enough the majority will be lolbertarians praising children for their visually perfect art.
But regardless, literal children will still be getting PhDs in STEM.
And no, savant artists like Mozart don't count because their work as children is ass, is admitted to be ass once they grow to adulthood, and is contrived from others and lacking any voice.
>>29408618
>real world
Nice meme, STEMsperg.
>>29403623
this is retarded op, art has nothing to do with the other 4, which doesnt mean its easy.
You do wathever you want to do and the only worthless people are the ones who watch and do nothing or the ones who push themselves to study for years to do something they hate.
Anyone who makes it into stem is bound to be able to appreciate hard work in all its forms, the ones who laugh at you are little kids who know jack shit about the world and are in for a big surprise as soon as they finish highschool
The whole concept of an arts degree is a joke with the exception of philosophy
That is to say in the modern rendition of teritary education, how art has developed and how teritary education they aren't really compatible
>science is art
drops mic
Because art imparts to you the creators(the artist) understanding and interpretation of the world around him. Science imparts to you THE understanding of the world around you.
>>29403623
Art degrees are worthless because the people willing to spend twice their parents' annual salary on an art degree are, in general, kinda shit. University art programs are just a bunch of spoiled landwhales mooing about how much they love Bernie Sanders.
If you're genuinely competent at making art, like competent enough that you can make something the average person would be impressed by, then pave your own way. Set up a website(or make an account on one of those hipster websites) and sell your stuff. You can make a decent amount of money off of commissions if you know what you're doing.
If you're really good, teach yourself one of the industry standard programs and become a professional. Having a decent portfolio and working knowledge of the tool you'll be using beats the hell out of a piece of paper.
>>29409292
Sir, all degrees are worthless if you dont have the proper mindset with which to apply them.
The way I see it, they are basically anti-bullshit certificates. They tell someone that you didnt spend an hour on Wikipedia before that interview to act like you know what you are talking about.
>>29403623
As somebody with an art degree (specifically Animation), I can tell you that if you went to art school and didn't make any connections, you wasted your time. An arts degree is useless. You don't go to art school for the degree. You go there to meet people and make connections.
>>29409419
THIS!
Same goes for science or any degree too people.
>>29409283
>Science imparts to you THE understanding of the world around you.
No it doesn't, it imparts an irrelevant ideology that causes a kind of autism.
>>29409571
Bitch if you are saying bill nye is autistic then you are beyond help.
>>29409606
bill nye is extremely autistic and should not be taken remotely seriously, he has a BA in engineering (only) for one.
>>29409641
this man is indeed beyond help
>>29404155
Just finished my second year, I'm double majoring in Game Design and Comics
I work a lot with Photoshop and Maya, though I've had to take a lot of studio classes as well w/ traditional media
I really enjoy character design, trying to get better with environments. Want to do concept art but it's competitive as fuck so i'll have to get a LOT better before that's realistic
>>29403758
>what is commercial illustration
>what is graphic design
>what are all the career-oriented art fields that fall under a BFA
>SteamBoat will never be a thing
>business, orginizational studies, architecture, and teaching will never be considered decent
Art is valued, just everyone and their dog want to do it. There's a lot of competition and only so much art one needs in their life. The top 5% do well. The rest will "make it soon!"
The pragmatists go into graphic design and advertising, however that's not art.
