I don't get why southerners hang up their flag out of southern pride.
What is there to be proud of? That your family tree is a straight line? Teen pregnancy? Shit education? Failed rebellion? Obesity?
My fucking god.
Slavery.
>That your family tree is a straight line?
:DDDD
I think it's more of a redneck normalshit community thing. Some dumb shit they can attach themselves to in order to relate to other normalshits. Also
>Heritage not hate
I live in Ohio and people still have that shit ad if we were a part of the south
Because it triggers normies.
It's important to remember the losers
because it triggers carls like you
>>29289164
because niggers
>>29289164
I'm named after a confederate soldier who fought at appomadax (sp?) courthouse against northern aggressors
at the start of the war, the largest slave owner was black
5% of southerners even had slaves
the Irish indentured servants I'm descended from were white slaves, treated as badly as the blacks. "Kid nabbing" was a common practice where poor and / or orphan Irish kids were stolen from the streets and sold off
Majority of them became alcoholics after their servitude was over. One in seven ever married
But my ancestors survived. Then the North attacked them. They had no slaves, there *were* slaves
You don't understand the South, the war, or what it means to have any sort of culture or heritage. Just another lost internet child living in consumer America hell. We all feel bad for you
>>29289524
The war was fought to protect the institution of slavery.
>>29289381
Carl, that's Norman's roommate, right?
>hes not grateful for his nation
dude the nation always retains the power to fuck you up if they dont like you, you should be grateful you are allowed to exist in it
>>29289164
>tripfag normie doesn't get pride in where you're from
w e w
>>29289784
Nobody on 4chan lives in the CSA.
>>29289726
the war was fought to force the supremacy of the institution of wages, an effective devaluing of human capital
>>29289516
the niggers your people brought here LOL
>>29289799
>a large aggregate of people united by common descent, history, culture, or language, inhabiting a particular country or territory
nice dubs
>>29289809
jews did it
daily reminder like 6 southerners owned plantations and like 6 northerners had houseniggers
>>29289524
>at the start of the war, the largest slave owner was black
Irrelevant.
>5% of southerners even had slaves
Irrelevant. The Southern economy was built upon slavery, and the war was fought entirely to protect that institution. Several states explicitly mention slavery in their declarations of independence.
>Then the North attacked them.
The Union put down an insurrection. The South seceded simply because it didn't like the results of a democratic election.
>>29289807
It was fought to prevent secession of the south breaking apart the country.
The secession of the south was in response to fear the institution of slavery would be threatened.
>>29289524
Irish were never slaves you dumb ass, they were indentured servants and exploited for CHEAP labor, not slavery.
Your whole 5% thing doesn't mean shit when you look at how the blacks were treated after the war, the whole of the south was against them being equal to them and they never did a thing to stop their lynchings.
The war was fought first and foremost because of slavery. The confederates thought Lincoln would force them to free their slaves, but they were wrong and they sperged out and left the union, knowing it would cause a war. Lincoln only wanted to free them after the war began.
>>29289164
White southerners are one of the few groups of people left im the country who still take a hard line against liberal degeneracy.
Northerners, on the other hand, reliably vote for more feminism, more immigration, and more gun control.
>>29289826
>b-but the jewish man was the one who sold me them
haha fucking idiot dixies bring their nigger slaves because they're too god damned lazy to pick their own cotton, now those same niggers are trashing your cities and fucking your women.
I wouldn't even care but the negroes ended up fleeing to our beautiful northern cities and ruining them as well. I swear once the second civil war breaks out I can't wait to break your stupid dixie skull and send your cotton pickers back to where they belong.
>>29289164
hey listen her nigger lover the south will rise again
till then i'm gonna be listening to this cry nigger cry
https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=yFKds0UWxNo
>>29289860
they were slaves they didn't sell themselves into indentured servitude until later on the first Irish in the US were literal slaves that were sold by other people
>>29289923
You do realize most white farmers picked their own cotton and only the upper echelon were able to have slaves who picked cotton?
>>29289856
makin me think desu
the country before the civil war wasnt even a union really; so if you want to be tricky you could say the south consolidated into a union before the union did
>>29289923
not american but ok you can let your anger drive you mad
We fought and bled for something we believed in. It ended up being the wrong thing in the end, but we still fought for it. That's more than most people can say.
That is to say, that's what the "Southern Flag" is that people hang up, it's the battle standard representing the militarly and the war struggle. No one flies the actual flag of the CSA, they fly the battle standard. It's like someone being proud that their passed relative fought in WWII or something similar.
>>29289923
Then tell your northern bretheren to stop voting for liberal policies that take money out of your pocket and give it to the dindus you despise so much.
>>29289973
This. Even when slavery was at its peak only something like 4% of southerners owned slaves.
>>29290021
Southerners didn't fight for the 'wrong thing'. The soldiers who joined the CSA to fight in the war did it in defense of their native state, not to keep a system of slavery from which they didn't even profit.
>>29289214
m8 i saw the confederate battle flag in fucking rural upstate new york, that shit has absolutely nothing to do with southern culture anymore it's just the banner of white trash
>>29289976
>the country before the civil war wasnt even a union really
Uh yes it was. Allowing the secession of the south would have been a catastrophic misstep.
>>29290021
Given it's not an uncommon sight in rural areas of northern states I think it's come to mean more than that, at least to some.
I'd rather wave a US flag or my state flag over the rebel flag.
>>29290128
Historians have looked through surviving primary sources such as diaries, letters from soldiers, military newspapers etc and racial slavery comes up as the most common cause.
You're hitting some of the Lost Cause rhetoric.
https://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Lost_Cause_of_the_Confederacy
>>29289164
Its like how people obsess over football but instead of hollering about the referee they yell about black people
its the flag of treason. this flag is anti american.
>>29290128
>Our position is thoroughly identified with the institution of slavery-- the greatest material interest of the world. Its labor supplies the product which constitutes by far the largest and most important portions of commerce of the earth. These products are peculiar to the climate verging on the tropical regions, and by an imperious law of nature, none but the black race can bear exposure to the tropical sun. These products have become necessities of the world, and a blow at slavery is a blow at commerce and civilization. That blow has been long aimed at the institution, and was at the point of reaching its consummation. There was no choice left us but submission to the mandates of abolition, or a dissolution of the Union, whose principles had been subverted to work out our ruin.
from mississippi's declaration of causes of secession
you can look up the other southern states' declaration of causes too. while some of them mention "states' rights" or whatever as a cause they ALL frame it within the context of slavery, with most being almost as explicit as mississippi in coming out and saying that they seceded and fought the war to preserve slavery. stop with the revisionism friend.
>>29290269
i agree with this
i really dont give a shit about minorities but what sort of cucked country lets people openly fly the battle flags of a rebellion
plus most of the people who fly rebel battle flags would probably sit out another civil war, kind of cheapens the bravery of the men who fought waving that battle flag
just my two cents desu
>>29290303
I didn't say that the main cause behind secession wasn't slavery, I said soldiers fought to defend their homeland, such as Robert E. Lee who opposed secession, but in his resignation letter said :
>Save in the defence of my native State, I never desire again to draw my sword.
>>29290211
I'd like to see a source on those diaries and letters
>>29290475
What This Cruel War Was Over: Soldiers, Slavery, and the Civil War by Chandra Manning
I don't have a pdf copy and I can't post all the primary sources used in the book. Here's a quote from a review by another historian.
>Manning documents this consensus that Southerners supported the Confederacy to preserve slavery and maintain white supremacy with perhaps the largest bibliography of enlisted men's primary sources ever assembledThe statements of Confederate soldiers regarding slavery and the war are stunning.
Check it out if you can get a hold of a copy.
>>29290579
I'll have to find a copy of it and check it out
>>29290579
White Soldiers in the Confederacy were definitely fighting to support the economic and social systems, prominently including slavery, that had formed the core of their livelihoods for generations. That said, it is just statistically ignorant to claim that anywhere near a sizeable number of Confederate soldiers owned slaves themselves.
On top of that, the onus sits squarely on the North for thoroughly eradicating Southern infrastructure and economic systems and offering no means of re-gentrification in the post-war years, which by and large made the Reconstruction era South a WORSE place to live for poor blacks and poor whites, and the effects of which carry on today in the form of a weakened economy, higher unemployment rates and worse public education throughout the South.
>>29290784
I never claimed a sizeable number of Confederate soldiers owned slaves.
I thought we were discussing the cause of the war and why it was fought in which case post war isn't relevant.
The south's current state and reconstruction is a different kettle of fish.
>>29290846
I'm not the anon you were talking with earlier, I'm just interjecting for a moment to revisit the important truth that while ideological, socio-economical and political motivations obviously play a large role in catalyzing wars, we can't forget that those wars are fought and sustained by the common class and that their motivations should be just as relevant to the discussion as the governing body's (except, perhaps, in cases of absolute authoritarianism).
As another anon pointed out, Mississippi's and several other Confederate States' Governments directly cite slavery as a driving factor in their decision to secede, but those statements of intent were penned by the Government Aristocracy - the social class most dependant on slave labor and who benefitted the most from extolling its virtues to the public. So to conflate their motivations with the motivations of the everyman is the same fallacious thinking as equating the soldiers of the Wehrmacht to the Commanders of the Schutzstaffel.
https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=ULBCuHIpNgU
>>29291059
I understand your point which is why I purposely referenced the extensive sources written by the soldiers themselves.
I was trying to clarify the use of "defend their homeland" and "defend their way of life" which can be euphemisms for slavery because their way of live was so connected to slavery and the systemic racism it entailed.
Looking at the letters etc written by common soldiers just shows that they were not ignorant of what they were fighting for and that they too were for the large part concerned with defending the institution of slavery.
>>29289164
BECAUSE FREEDOM YOU YANKEE SCUM
BECAUSE WE YEARN FOR WHAT COULDVE BEEN, WHAT SHOULDVE BEEN, AND WHAT WE'LL MAKE DAMN SURE WILL BE
>>29289860
>>29289849
two people who have never read a history book
>>29289952
someone who did
Let's not forget that black people sold the slaves, and 15x more of them went to South America
>>29291122
>which can be euphemisms for slavery
Unless you
>A: literally knew these people face to face
Or
>B: are an anthropologist with a heavy focus on pre-Civil War era Southern communities
That statement has no basis in fact and you're just guessing or, worst case, trying to retrofit the meaning of these accounts to fit a modern worldview of 'Southerners are racists".
Nobody will argue that the average citizen of a Confederate State was exposed deeply to the societal norms of systemic racism, or that such norms affected their worldview, but unless you have MOUNTAINS of firsthand statements directly stating "I am fighting so that slaves will remain slaves", you have no real means to quantify the degree to which a Confederate soldier was fighting 'for slavery'. Those mountains of evidence may in fact exist, but being that this is the first I've heard of them and I don't have the book in question on hand, I am choosing to remain skeptical.
The same is also true of the other alleged purposes for fighting, like states rights. The truth is we only have a definitive record of the governing body's motivations, augmented by broad strokes of information about the citizens' aims and motivations.
>>29289849
Do you even know what 'insurrection' means, anon? A group of like minded peoples deciding to fuck off, non-violently, and do their own thing is not 'insurrection'
>>29291336
Well check the book out.
Obviously you'll never know every soldiers motivations but you can make reasonable guesses given enough sources from varied soldiers.
