IF embryos were applicable to notions of liberty, would you think discarding an embryo is decreasing it's positive or negative liberty?
We're interfering with it - negative liberty
We're denying it the right to reach it's potential - positive liberty
>>29080448
we're calling tiny humans parasites - women
>>29080448
Color me fucking retarded, but I was unable to understand your question. Please rewrite your post with more clarity.
>>29080448
Testing this gif out
>>29081642
And one more time
>>29080448
Abortion is not legal because it's morally ok.
Women and Men have literally brainwashed themselves in to thinking that it's ok so that they can selfishly avoid the consequences of their actions.
The reason why it is legal and that the crazy brainwashed notions have circulated so much is because economically, abortion is VERY beneficial. Socially, too. So of course the govenrment is going to endorse it- it solves a ton of issues that would otherwise take tons of money and effort and time to fix.
I never quite understood the discussion around abortion. It literally does not affect you in any way so why should I give a flying fuck about it in the first place? Also >implying embryos have any clue what the fuck is happening
Just legalize it everywhere and stop giving a fuck about things that literally don't affect you and never will affect you in any way whatsoever.
>>29081674
>economically, abortion is VERY beneficial
>be western european country
>abort more than 50% of your children (80% in Sweden)
>suddenly a population crisis
>brilliant idea: refugees
>beneficial to the economy
sure i guess, for a few decades.
>>29081844
disgusting 3d woman samantha bee did a piece on it and it was very informative.
turns out abortion was just a cynical ploy to organize a disaffected christian voting bloc. so thats why you should care about it. because humans are trash and will believe anything, as long as you can say god says you should.
>>29081499
when they are inside they are literally parasites though. they suck nutrients out of you and give nothing.
>>29081844
>>implying embryos have any clue what the fuck is happening
If I knock you out first is it okay to murder you
>implying you'd know what was happening
Actually the baby's do know what is happening, at least in part, because we can watch them writhe in agony as their torn apart on an ultra sound
>>29081943
>If I knock you out first is it okay to murder you
???
>Actually the baby's do know what is happening
Source or gtfo
Abortion is one of those issues that can go either way. I tend to support it due to the social benefits (less incapable single mothers, children born into poverty, etc)
If you are a radical when it comes to abortion on any side and can't appreciate the other side's arguments, then you're a fucking moron
I have some sick OC for you guys about abortion. Really gruesome stuff
This one is an aborted baby in a bowl. Its still alive you'll notice, because in this method of abortion, the baby is delivered first. They do this because a whole baby corpse is worth MUCH more than chopped up baby goo. You're also not liable for problems with standard methods, like loosing chunks of the skull after its crushed. The two standard methods are, for very early term abortions, first to use a saline solution to melt the baby like a snail before sucking it through a tube. But usually when the pregnancy is far enough along (more than 6-8 weeks) the bones and skull have already solidified, so the method is to use a tube with strong suction to rip the baby limb from limb, then they have to insert an instrument to crush its skull, and then suck the skull and bone fragments out. The problems with these two methods is that the bodies aren't as valuable, and like I said, they can be messy and cause complications. So the most profitable, but also the most politically risky, method is to administer drugs to put the woman into labor early, deliver the baby, and then let it die from exposure (can take anywhere from a few minutes to many hours). They don't do anything to kill it 1) don't want to damage the body for profit and 2) this is also politically risky. but to let it die by exposure is an acceptable practice. some older reports stated that aborted babys would be "thrown alive into the trash." That was a misconception on the part of the surveyers. When the baby's were thrown into the "trash," it actually wasnt "trash" at all, it was just bags or bins where the body's were kept to suffocate the baby before doing whatever with its corpse.
Anyways here
https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=B4YNR92mLe8
>>29080448
If you even try and talk about stuff like that, you're literally called a misogynist.
It fucking makes me want to off myself every single time.
I have to actually try hard not to go home and blow my brains out when I mention that making sure the man has a condom on before sex should be half the female's responsibility, because you can't always expect them to tell the truth.
However, I always get a subject change, an answer such as "b-but men should have to put it on, period! Why should women have to check!" or I get called a misogynist, having women legitimately threaten physical violence.
And I can't do shit about it because I'd be beaten into the floor by every normie in the area before being sent to prison for 10 years if I so much as face in her direction.
>>29082155
If this wasn't gruesome enough for you, here's something on another level: late-term abortions. The baby is too big to chop up and suck out, the bones are too big and strong to crush, so I'll let you see what happens here.
Caution: SICK.
https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=a7qyrYonFE8
>>29080448
Who cares about fetuses? They're just lumps of flesh, just like adult humans.
>>29082213
If the first few seconds of this made you sick to your stomach, in this case the baby is being slowly delivered and chopped up as it is born
>>29082227
Are you an INTJ edge-fag?
>>29082259
ESFP actually. Not even kidding.
>>29081938
no they aren't you fucking imbecile
parasites are things that feed off of other species
>>29082227
On a certain level, you're line of thinking is actually consistent.
I would have abortionists executed by their method of choice: being melted like a snail in strong acid and sucked through a tube, being chopped up piece by piece and sucked through a tube before finally crushing the skull, or just straight chopping them up piece by piece and ripping pieces away from them until they die. Their choice.
Of course we will disable their vocal chords first so nobody can hear them scream. That makes it alright.
>>29082312
Not according to OED.
>An organism which lives in or on another organism (its host) and benefits by deriving nutrients at the other's expense.
A better line of argument would be to say that the organism has to be an adult, but not even that is said in the definition.
>>29081674
>economically, abortion is VERY beneficial. Socially, too. So of course the govenrment is going to endorse it- it solves a ton of issues that would otherwise take tons of money and effort and time to fix.
this. abortion is undeniably evil, but it's a necessary evil. that said, I do think abortion records should be publicly available, so there will be social consequences for having an abortion
>>29082370
At what point does the parasite become a human? When its born? In this case it doesn't live in, but it has to live on its mother or some other guardian. It provides nothing in exchange. It isn't even self-conscious. Is a three month old human?
>>29082213
also, shit like this should be illegal. if it's old enough to be born safely, it's too old to be aborted
>>29081983
>Source
Here's some segments from a documentary called "The Silent Scream." Its an information documentary about abortion as a "medical" practice, and about the abortion industry. Its old, so some of the material is outdated, but its very helpful. You can skip through the protest scenes if you want. I added those for relief
https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=OgCKa7i0Jj8
>>29082476
I said nothing at all about that, I just addressed the 'other species' misconception. Personally, I understand the obvious fact that 'human' refers to the genetic makeup and that fetuses are humans from the conception, except this says nothing about morality of abortion... because morality non disputandum est in the first place, as only physical consequences of actions can be discussed (otherwise it's just a retarded tug-of-war of shoulds). This whole discussion is retarded.
>>29080448
>idiot doesn't know where the boundary between my body and the world is.
Self-ownership begins with your skin.
>>29082596
Watch the videos I posted and then we can discuss "physical consequences." How can you understand the "physical consequences" when you haven't seen the physical act. Res ipsa loquitur
Not a single person has answered OP's question
https://wikipedia.org/wiki/Positive_liberty
https://wikipedia.org/wiki/Negative_liberty
>>29082661
I could watch a mother being fed the fingernails torn off her own five year old child, and I would still be wrong to say that it is wrong -- the only thing I could meaningfully say is that certain tissue moves from the fingers of one body into the digestive system of another, and that both brains produce certain chemicals in the process.
Not 'edgy', just dismissing arbitrary thresholds of 'so shocking, somehow laws of objective discussion cease to apply'. Reply to this as you want.
lol who gives a shit
why do we need more humans anyway?
It's not like the things have formed any emotional or otherwise meaningful connections of any kind with the world anyway.
>>29082721
>no innate sense of right or wrong
Reprobate detected. Are you also a fag or fag sympathizer?
>>29082752
>It's not like the things have formed any emotional or otherwise meaningful connections of any kind with the world anyway.
Guess thats a good reason to euthanize half of /r9k/'s userbase
>>29082890
>misinferring that I have no sense of right or wrong
I obviously do. In fact, literally (yes, literally) everyone does.
It's just inherently meaningless to assert it in discussion or even bring it up in any way. At most, 'I think thing x should (not) be done' translates to 'my brain contains the kernel of reaction that sometimes emerges as my opposition to seeing x done', which is basically self-translation into the objective form either way, so implications of objective morality actually defeat themselves. Retard.
>>29082971
>>29082890
In other words, your 'waah waah thing x really really REALLY should not be done' just mean 'I really really REALLY don't want to see it done'. Well good for you, except this discussion is not about your person, but about the consequences of abortion. Ass.
>>29082370
>having a child kills the mother according to ''''oed''''''
bullshit study, women live lobger than men.
what type of future do ww live in were women are complaining about having kids and trying to label CHILDREN as PARASITES
>>29083271
>>having a child kills the mother according to ''''oed''''''
>
>bullshit study
...What?...
I can't even get myself to count the kinds of wrong you are.
>>29083015
>blah blah blah
>>29082971
well then i might have misjudged you. maybe. at least you have the sense to recognize that there is a right and a wrong. you're just confused about what that is
did you watch the videos or not. your cold hard scientific mind shouldn't be bothered by it at all, just observe the procedure.
>>29082971
>I obviously do. In fact, literally (yes, literally) everyone does.
By the way "literally" not everyone does.
>>29083308
>IMPLYING
a meteor really needs to hit earth if this is where we are headed
>>29083343
>>29083395
>you have the sense to recognize that there is a right and a wrong. you're just confused about what that is
I am not 'confused' about my subjective sense of right and wrong. In fact, considering that right and wrong exist only at the moment of personal decision-taking with respect to potential prospects ('this I want to let happen' vs 'this I don't want to let happen'), it makes no sense to even say this.
>"literally" not everyone does
Yes, literally everyone does. Right and wrong exist and only exist as considering factors at decision-making. Decision-making is inherent even to the most basic, unicellular forms of life, and therefore, so is the sense of subjective right and wrong.
>your cold hard scientific mind shouldn't be bothered by it at all
Another non sequitur. I just demarcate what can be meaningfully spoken about (facts) from what cannot (shoulds and shouldn'ts). Obviously my mind is going to be bothered by the videos, in the sense that my nervous system will produce bodily reactions of retching or something.
>>29080448
Whether abortion is murder depends on whether abortion is legal in that country or not.
Murder is the unlawful premeditated killing of one human being by another. If abortion is legal, then abortion is a lawful killing of a human being. Ergo, abortion in such a country cannot, by definition, be murder.
Furthermore, you only become a person (legally speaking), once you are born.
>>29082213
Man they took forever to yank that baby out, the anticipation was killing me.
And the surgeon looked like a Benihana chef, sweet knife skills
>>29083491
>le human kids are chicken eggs meme
fucking hell, and i bet you're the type to hate when guys want someone younger than them
kys seriously
>>29083466
(Saying that someone is 'confused' with respect to their sense of right and wrong is like saying that someone is 'confused' with respect to at the present moment digesting the food in their stomach or having blood circulating in their vessels.)
>>29083635
I have no idea what you're trying to say. I found the image amusing so I included it. I never equated a "human kid" to a "chicken egg".
>>29083669
>i have no idea how to read
i can tell by your limited understanding on what makes a person a person
you find it amusing because you're easily impressed and hedonistic
>>29083778
Read up on some biology. Definitions of different kinds of life are all over those pages. You're simply wrong.
>>29083778
Why are you so angry? Legal personhood is clearly defined. Obviously I cannot speak for the whole world, but in many countries one only becomes a person once one is born. I do remember that some states in the US redefined it to include pre-born human beings, but that brings me to my original point: it depends on the legislation of the country. But as an addendum: I only mentioned personhood as a side-note. It does not concern the OP.
