Is mediation a meme? Some faggot told me to read The Power of Now and Waking Up.
I want to hear from robots who have invested a lot of time into it (50+ hours).
>>29070765
meditation*
o r i g a n a l
>>29070765
Yes. It's real but the word glorifies it.Relaxing and doing as little as possible.
>>29070765
do you mean meditation
>>29070765
there's lots of real science that claims it's beneficial. however, i find it too boring to have stuck with it long enough to see results.
>>29070795
The idea behind meditation is that nothing is ever boring.
>>29070795
cant tell if bait
must be legit
ignorance is bliss
>>29070839
uh. it's not bait. what?
I don't know what others get from it but it's helping me focus. Normally my mind is jumping from one thought to another all the time but after I meditate for 10-15 minutes I empty my head and feel more in the moment. My thoughts arent wandering as much and I can focus on simple tasks. It lasts for few hours but I believe that could be improved if I did it regularly. I haven't read any books on it but I tried guided meditation which I didn't like. My method is simply sitting down, closing my eyes and breathing in deeply and slowly, with air going in through my nose and going out from my mouth. During the process I try to empty my mind as much as possible. Its really difficult, thoughts keep coming but you just have to try to let them pass you.
>>29070765
Sam Harris's book Waking Up is a really good start. But it's not exactly a guide on meditation, even though he does give a brief how-to in one of the early chapters.
He explains the neuroscience behind meditation, and our understanding of consciousness in general. He cuts the wheat from the chaff so to speak of various religious traditions surrounding meditation, and he goes into various fraudsters, kooks, and generally insane people that try to pass themselves off as spirtualists. He also talks about academic butting of heads between eastern spirtualists, philosophers, and scientists.
It's a good place to start in my opinion because he tells you what you need to know about the mind and the benefits of meditation, and then basically gives you the healthy warnings and skepticism required for stepping into those kinds of traditions.
>>29070984
>He explains the neuroscience behind meditation, and our understanding of consciousness in general. He cuts the wheat from the chaff so to speak of various religious traditions surrounding meditation, and he goes into various fraudsters, kooks, and generally insane people that try to pass themselves off as spirtualists. He also talks about academic butting of heads between eastern spirtualists, philosophers, and scientists.
What on Earth?
He's literally one of the rambliest, most vacuous pseudoscientists I've had the displeasure to read. 'Consciousness encompasses the present moment and the now of the thought is the entirety of reality that we have to accept...'
>>29071007
In short, he's Tolle-tier.
Not to mention...
>Sam Harris is not a neuroscientist. I looked up what he has done out of curiosity, and the only research I could find was for his dissertation, for which he did NONE of the experiments, had 4 or 5 people help him with, and which did not even address a scientific question.
By the way.
>>29070795
>science that claims it's beneficial
This is a contradiction.
>>29070861
>focus
This is a profoundly narrow gain in exchange for the impairment removal of mind-wandering wreaks.
>>29070827
>nothing is ever boring
This is one of the most glaring dangers to accomplishment imaginable.
>>29070861
10-15 minutes is quick. I need like 40 minutes for my mind to cool down. I want to try 2 hour sessions in the future. I mostly do it before I do something social, I think it helps me feels less anxious.
It's interesting to notice the different states your mind can be in. Sometimes it's really clear and you are aware of how thoughts are arising. Other times it's like my head is buzzing and I simply can not step back and observe my thoughts.
>>29071079
>It's interesting to notice the different states your mind can be in.
Every time I notice the mental states I am in, I am struck by the sheer vapidity of such pseudoobservations compared to, off the top of my mind, noticing preferences of serif vs sans-serif fonts in captchas coming from various languages as you can tell from the street signs' language.
>>29071097
>languages
*countries
I've been focused on mantra meditation for two years. It helps me with my anxiety and sometimes seems to change things around me for better or worse. Overall it's what you make it.
The power of meditation is within and without.
Hare Krishna
>>29071115
>Overall it's what you make it.
Overall you are a shameless craven from shifting the blame for misusing your advice onto people you push it to.
>>29071061
>This is one of the most glaring dangers to accomplishment imaginable.
Most hard work is a grind and people give up because it bores them. Someone who is able to stay in the moment and focus on the task can achieve much more. Look at how many accomplished people are into meditation.
>>29071134
Fuck. Every time I talk with a 'meditator', I overestimate their self-awareness by some six or seven degrees. Every time.
Understand, meditard, that with increased tolerance for grinding comes decreased sense of urgency to find more stimulating pastimes, and that that tolerance itself comes from crippled imagination where to better invest your time (no more 'actually instead of doing this dumb thing, I could have...').
>Look at how many accomplished people are into meditation.
Look at corrcaus.
>>29071168
Except the more stimulating thing to do for most people is to waste hours on facebook and in videogames specifically designed to give you constant instant gratification, or in the worst case taking drugs. Good luck trying to compete with that level of stimulation, it's basically impossible, and none of it is beneficial to you.
It's a fallacy to measure the merit of an activity by how stimulating it is.
>>29071249
>Except the more stimulating thing to do for most people is to waste hours on facebook and in videogames specifically designed to give you constant instant gratification
And sure enough it is more productive than 'meditation' can ever hope to me. Facebook can provoke boundless mind-wandering into -- again, off the top of my mind which to that degree has not yielded to 'meditative' 'self-awareness' -- online ads, JavaScript tracking, corporate practices, profile pic choices, blue vs other colour schemes, people's name choices regarding fictitious profiles, legal obligations of Facebook regarding suicidal signs... and that I came up with in just ten seconds. While 'meditation' replaces your mind with 'herp, I just thoughted'.
>>29071007
have you actually read the book? Only two chapters deal with practicing meditation. The first chapter is entirely neuroscience and most of the subsequent chapters deal with the things I mentioned; academic arguments, religious dogma, and charlatans.
>>29071061
yeah you're going to have to do better than quote a comment from a wordpress blog to dismiss his credentials. Take it up with UCLA who gave him his doctorate.
>science claims it's beneficial
>This is a contradiction
1) you don't know what a contradiction is, or at least can't explain how "scientific studies illustrate that a given set of behaviors has medical risks and/or benefits" is a contradiction.
2) There are many studies showing improvements in neuroplasticity, reduction of anxiety, panic attacks, the effects of PTSD comes with establishing meditation as a routine. It has documented medical benefits. (These were present in the footnotes and references of Waking Up)
>>29071097
>>29071133
Were you raped with a yoga mat? cause this is some salty nonsense right here.
>>29071168
I'll repeat the above and point out the irony of someone talking about stimulating pastimes while posting on /r9k/
>>29071295
Here you've confused constant distraction with stimulation. Meditation is supposed to be introspective not "herp i thoughted" but more like 'why can't i stop the flow or formation of thought?', 'where does this agency or conciousness come from?'
Anyone who has actively tried to quiet their mind will quickly realize how little control you have over the formation or direction of thought. For a 'purposeful' individual like yourself you might want to consider why that is for more than the three seconds you'll take to glibly hammer out a response on a keyboard.
>>29071295
How is it productive when all you're doing is procrastinating? It's not bringing you closer to any of your goals. Plus the time when you're not on facebook you get nagged by neurotic thoughts that want you to go back on it. People generally regret how much time they've wasted on social media or in video games. It makes them miserable.
I don't see how that's superior to clearing your mind, feeling generally more at peace, and exercising yourself in self-discipline, so you can be more focused on the tasks that truly matter throughout the day and feel less insecure around other people.
>>29071404
>>29071433
Oh shit, it's the self-righteous variety!...
I have read and over the course of many threads quoted on /r9k/ enough from that Harris man to be safe to assume that the quotes represent the best of his.
While I didn't read in detail, the comment I took that from actually -- I hadn't read it when I posted -- describes a whole host of problems with his thesis.
The contradiction you self-surely deny is the fact that in facts, there is no 'good' and 'bad', there is just 'is' of the matter -- such as the brain -- and any 'study' that claims a benefit or harm as if that were objective is pseudoscience.
It is literally impossible to be more vague than to mention 'neuroplasticity' because that term literally means 'the neurons change'. Schizophrenic autism involves 'neuroplasticity' as well.
I could give even more examples of the run-of-the-mill 'benefits' you cite, except they're irrelevant because they all without fail refer to decreased concern and care, which agree with studies citing increased self-acceptance ('I'm fine just the way I am' -- think fat acceptance-grade obnoxious).
I stopped being surprised by ad hominems and 'no you' of 'you are posting on /r9k/' from 'meditators' some three years ago.
'I chose to think it because my ego made me' is a delusional religious thought-stopper. Questions of origin of thought can only be solved with mind-wandering relating to external causes such as school or upbringing or genes or social context, which 'meditation' has been mass-confirmed to cripple.
Your hamfisted combination of appeal to ignorance, 'how can you be so sure', and 'you're not enlightened until you stop posting and shame yourself' has been generic Buddhist staple for years as well.
As is 'no true meditation would cripple your imagination and desire of goals to pursue'. There is a reason that 'meditation' has never been related to life choices despite it being trivially doable.
(Contined.)
>>29071404
>>29071433
>>29071538
The final fallacy is that of 'being able to' focus on any task while disregarding the fact that 'meditation', as said, affects one's capacity to think of tasks to do in the first place.
Generic clowns, both of you.
>>29071404
>For a 'purposeful' individual like yourself you might want to consider why that is for more than the three seconds you'll take to glibly hammer out a response on a keyboard.
In fact, this deserves a remention. Basically, when a Buddhist loses an argument, his mind unconsciously slips into breaking its context. This can take up a variety of forms: from the more directly insultive 'why are you so mad?' to faux intellectual 'have you considered the broader context that such discussions are actually pointless?' to passive-aggressive 'why can't we stop arguing and just enjoy the nature?'. But it all betrays the same inclination for personal attacks, more or less disingenuous, more or less moderated, of 'I don't like where this is going, so I'm gonna shift the subject'. I sincerely hope that no one has to deal with this IRL.
Finally.
>>29071433
>How is it productive when all you're doing is procrastinating? It's not bringing you closer to any of your goals.
Here, the irony of a 'meditator' being self-unaware of his own thought processes is how he didn't realize how he committed the 'in itself' fallacy: 'browsing Facebook et al. is pointless in itself, when we arbitrarily assume that it yields absolutely kernels of curiosity and mind-wandering as might near me to life changes'.
>>29071717
>absolutely kernels
*absolutely no kernels
>>29071538
So your quotes and misquotes of a book from r9k give you a better understanding of the author than people who have actually read his work? You're going to pretend that's an intellectually honest stance to take?
>The contradiction you self-surely deny is the fact that in facts, there is no 'good' and 'bad', there is just 'is' of the matter -- such as the brain -- and any 'study' that claims a benefit or harm as if that were objective is pseudoscience.
This is the most obtuse shit I've read in a while. You're claiming that MEDICAL studies cannot make objective claims to harm or benefit? We can't state with some degree of statistical certainty that a given drug lessens seizures, or increases the chance of heart attack? You're saying that science can make statements of fact (is) but translating those facts into terms of harm or benefit to a patient turns those facts into pseudoscience? This is sophistry, you're either attacking language or reason itself.
I'm not going to bother with the science because you don't either. You don't even bother to read the books you lambaste, much less give a shit about the studies discussed therein. On top of being disingenuous equating neuroplaticity with schizophrenia, because it is obvious in the context of what I said that I'm referring to neurplasticity in terms of recovering from trauma. You're garbing at straws, like fat-acceptance, to dismiss things you haven't read and appear to be positively ecstatic to reject out of hand.
>Questions of origin of thought can only be solved with mind-wandering relating to external causes such as school or upbringing or genes or social context.
Really?
I would love to see your dissertation on the origin of thought, as I'm sure the Nobel committee would too. You seem to have answered a very hard question, decades ahead of modern nueroscientists apparently.
>>29071618
I'm not a Buddhist so you can stop attacking that particular straw man.
>>29071133
When you chant the Hare Krishna mantra you associate with God himself as God is no different than his names. The mahamantra means "god please engage me in your devotional service".
But in the age of Kali-yuga there are many ignorant fucks like yourself. I hope you are reincarnated as a worm in stool.
>>29071717
I know what you mean. You can stumble over opportunities on facebook that help you reach goals. However that happens just as much if not more in purpose driven activities. Scrolling through baby photos and linked Salon articles is comparatively the bottom of the barrel.
>>29071538
>The contradiction you self-surely deny is the fact that in facts, there is no 'good' and 'bad', there is just 'is' of the matter -- such as the brain -- and any 'study' that claims a benefit or harm as if that were objective is pseudoscience.
Just because you interpret data from the perspective of human experience doesn't make the underlying experiment unscientific. If a research study finds that Aspirin reduces pain and proclaims that to be good, you may dispute that it's "good", but that alone doesn't invalidate the results.
>>29070765
The Power of Now should be a title for a John Cena's book.
Problem with "meditation" is that the word has too many different meanings. Some people consider that driving your car is still "meditating" if you're trying to be very conscious of everything you do. Transcendental meditation is out, and Consciousness Meditation is all the hype today.
Unfortunately the answer to your question is: it depends of your problem and what you want to obtain, and it depends of the meditation you're using.
I've had some successes with it but it's purely anecdotal. Depending of your personnal issues, changing your bad habits or changing job/getting rid of toxic friends could prove more effective and quicker.
> Pic totally related
I used to meditate. Its kind of like excersie for your mind. Its really healthy but you gotta remember to do it in a regular basis for it to do anything.
>>29072872
>changing your bad habits or changing job/getting rid of toxic friends could prove more effective and quicker.
Isn't meditation a catalyst for implementing such changes in habit as you become generally more deliberate about the actions you're taking?
>>29070765
The ultimate red pill on meditation.
https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=Srw3YSda1XY
>>29073192
Watched it before. Being naive was their fault, not meditation itself. Consumers do no better and are useful idiots to corporations.
