>a conscious being smart enough to reflect upon the meaninglessnsess of its own existence
this has to be the biggest cosmic joke ever
>>28930829
Stop trying to sound deep. This is why people don't like you
>>28930849
not willing to look into the abyss are you?
Watchmen is pretentious garbage for fedora tipping teenagers too dumb to read a book.
>>28930932
>babbys first existential crisis
No, we have, we're just not autsitic so we found better things to do.
>>28930829
Check out /r/iamsosmart, anon :^]
>>28930980
Why? Considering when it was made it was the first "adult" comic with a "realistic" story and motives, it was pretty revolutionary in it's time.
>>28930829
>>28930932
>le edgy meaninglessness meme
have you ever thought about how meaningless the phrase "meaning of life" is in the first place? You're just indulging your sense of despair, which is an emotion, not a philosophy
Eat a dick, pretentious faggot
>>28931007
>not wanting to deal with the most important questions of reality
>reverts to shaming
top kekels
what better things do you have to do?
>>28931023
yeah but that's not saying much for a comic. it just reflected how teenagers were all trying to be edgy, or at least much more than their hippy parents were. you might as well say that AQHF and south park are deep.
i liked watchmen but it's very simple minded.
>>28931076
>not wanting to deal with the most important questions of reality
No one said that. Self pity isn't "dealing" with anything m8.
>what better things do you have to do?
Maybe actually consider many of the thousands of philosophical outlooks and theories that actually try to answer said questions instead of collapsing into a big whiny ball of "life is meaningless!11!!1"
If life it that meaningless, off yourself. You're completely free to do so and I hope you find whatever metaphysical answers you're looking for on the other side.
>>28931076
>my list of important questions of reality:
>consciousness must be a joke
>thats it.
since you clearly have no dad, go find some stoic old guy to beat some sense into you. or take a trip to a foreign country and learn their language/culture. pussy.
>>28931068
theres no despair to be found
it's not about the "meaning of life" i'm far beyond that.
Realizing however that also morals and desires compassion and conscious experience are just as meaningless is pretty trippy.
>it's an /r9k/ philosophy thread in which none of the posters have read a single book since highschool
>>28931163
>Realizing however that also morals and desires compassion and conscious experience are just as meaningless is pretty trippy.
Holy shit are you 15?
>>28930829
dont listen to these faggots anon, you are here to chat, so do your thing, there are those who read it and dont think bad of you
>>28931163
DUDE WHAT A TRIP! OMG OMG OMG BAKA
*cleans room so mommy doesn't get mad*
I'm so fucking tired of dumb kids making whiny philosophy threads using words like "meaning" without epistemologically clarifying what they even mean by that in the first place.
people much smarter than you or I have debated what "meaning" even is for millennia and will continue to do so for millennia, nothing you're thinking is in any way original or useful.
>>28931165
Actually I'm a phd in philosophy at an Ivy League.
>>28931264
Wait, are you the OP?
If so, I really fear for this generation and our school system.
>>28931264
>only a phd
pathetic to be honest.
>>28931279
i don't think it's the case now but i can totally picture that university philosophy will be taught around comic books and childrens cartoons. nothing else would make sense to modern students at large and we can't make them feel stupid if we want their money.
>>28931165
>Its a "You have to read uninteresting books written by jews in order to be smart" episode
>>28931330
>books are bad
Hi tyrone hows the cocaine today?
>>28931330
>listen to me my views are deep and correct!
>Ew, books? those are for nerds
>>28931279
No that was my first post in the thread.
>>28931254
I basically concur, but I don't know why you say epistemologically clarifying, as it's not even a debate about whether we can 'know' a meaning. There is enough debate over what meaning is/could actually be.
>>28931163
>it's not about the meaning of life
>just all of its contents
>pretty trippy
Ok bud
>>28931329
Honestly I'm pretty sure they'll feel stupid enough the moment they realize they're tens of thousands of dollars in debt with a degree in fucking philosophy.
>>28931068
Philosophy is just emotion.
>>28931349
>There is enough debate over what meaning is/could actually be.
I suppose, but there are many different schools of thought that define "meaning" in many different ways, from falsifiability to practical wisdom to other more esoteric an metaphysical descriptors. It's effectively meaningless (lol) to talk about meaning without first setting up your definition and premises for it.
>>28931405
wat
Some of it is, but they're by no means one and the same.
>>28931379
Kek I didn't pay for undergrad (uni in Scotland), and now I get paid to be a grad student. I don't get a lot, but life is very comfy, and obviously I don't have debt to pay. Most of what I do is very easy, I never work more than 2 hours a day, have basically complete control over when I choose to work, sleep in every day and have time to pursue other hobbies. Not to mention I get to study something I love. Tell me why I should have studied STEM again?
>>28931330
How long until you realize that being a normie is on a spectrum. Everyone that's more normie is going to ridicule everyone that is less normie.
>ur gay y don't u like sports
>ur gay y don't u like reading
>ur gay y don't u like anime
>ur gay y don't u like crocheting
>>28931439
Truth cannot be justified, so philosophy boils down to "because I said so" and "because it feels good" at the fundamental level.
>>28930980
Almost as bad as trying to make yourself look cool by being a knee-jerk contrarian.
>>28931446
>Tell me why I should have studied STEM again?
I didn't? If that's not where your passions lie then it's not for you, but out of curiosity what career path are you planning on following once you have your degree?
>>28931405
>your mum is just emotion, m9
>>28931419
Sure, I agree with you there. I was just confused about the reference to epistemology, especially given that I'm not aware of much literature in epistemology on meaning (it might be there, I could just be ignorant), as opposed to in philosophy of language or moral philosophy.
>>28931446
its not about what you should have done. my point earlier was that education is largely a business today, whether you pay for it or your taxpayers do. and the strategy is less about educating you and more about making you feel better about yourself. look at your own posts so far for example.
the other guy is right though, at some point a lot of people with liberal arts degrees regret it.
>>28931479
Philosophy boils down to a failure of language, it doesn't mean nothing exists in the mind which isn't emotion
>>28930829
Jokes on the world if it really wanted things to turn out the way it does a lot of the time.
>>28931479
>Truth cannot be justified
There are thousands of years of cumulative thought arguing over this point, how have you just now figured out the answer?
>so philosophy boils down to "because I said so" and "because it feels good" at the fundamental level.
There isn't really a "fundamental level" of philosophy though? There are so many different schools that base themselves on so many different things, yes some are based on emotivism but just as many are based on reason and empiricism.
>>28931491
Probably academia DESU, like most my peers. I'm lucky enough to go to a university where most my peers end up getting decent jobs in philosophy. I personally don't want to go to a top 20 school however, I'd much prefer to teach at a liberal arts college where the publishing demand is much less (I'm incredibly lazy) and competition is less fierce.
Otherwise I'll probably go to Jew law school. Backup option is go into something like advertising, although it would be annoying to have to start at the bottom of the career ladder at 28
>>28931516
Admittedly wither of those would have worked just as well, I only used that because I was referring to him elaborating on the method and premises through which he came to the conclusion that life was meaningless.
>>28931551
Even in the absence of language, philosophy relies on taking your senses and thoughts for granted and having faith that through them you can experience "objective" reality. It's entirely unjustifiable unless you just accept "well I'm pretty sure that's what happens so let's go with it", at which point you've lost all pretense of logic and might as well be a christfag.
>>28931551
>Philosophy boils down to a failure of language
This is true, but there have been as many new forms of thought that have tried to remedy this in various ways. I mean honestly It's all a language game and there's not really any chance of people on this website having much of a meaningful discussion anyway.
>>28931542
>and the strategy is less about educating you and more about making you feel better about yourself. look at your own posts so far for example.
Nah you just have spent too much time on /pol/. If you think top end phd programs are hugboxes it really shows that you have never been in a challenging academic environment.
Besides anything else, I'm being paid to be there, not paying them, so they have no motivation to treat me particularly nicely.
>>28931582
>There are thousands of years of cumulative thought arguing over this point, how have you just now figured out the answer?
People have been beating a dead horse for thousands of years, then. It's an unsolvable problem; that's the answer.
>>28931658
>philosophy relies on taking your senses and thoughts for granted and having faith that through them you can experience "objective" reality.
You what mate?
That's "a" school of philosophical thought, but there are just as many that outright reject the senses and any notion of an objective reality.
You seem to have a very narrow understanding of what philosophy actually is.
Cogito ergo sum, fag
>>28931582
you seem to be missing the point. reason and empiricism are still relative concepts. their definitions rely on how people (particularly authoritative figures) feel about them. it's not about schools or branches senpai, its just about experiencing everything as a human.
>>28931722
>Cogito ergo sum
Is incorrect. Just because you think, doesn't mean you exist.
so what do you suggest anons?
As you Ponder over -ists and -isms
She swallows Chad's piss and jism
>>28931750
I never claimed it was you downy, I was just pointing out that there are huge swathes of philosophy that have absolutely no regard for the sensory or objective.
The whole point of that phrase wasn't to show that he did exist, it was to exemplify how unsure he was of anything else existing.
>>28931658
You obviously have no idea about what philosophy actually is.
Pro tip: any statement that starts 'all philosophy is...' Is likely to be wrong. It's an extremely broad field, and notoriously hard to define
>>28931692
>not a hugbox
>work done in 2 hours
>completely open schedule
>sleeps in
>makes the logical leap (as a phd student) that if someone believes current students have it easier than in the past, they must have never experienced a challenging academic environment
as much as i want to believe you're just in high school talking out of your ass and not take you seriously at all, most phds i've met are a lot less prepared for the world than guys who went to full time work after their bachelors.
>>28931703
Exactly, so it's about pondering the question rather than getting a definite answer, something along the lines of Sisyphus
>>28931750
Why? Seems to me it does. After all of you are thinking, there must be something that exists to do the thinking?
Care to actyally offer an argument for your extremely controversial statement.
>>28931794
Alright I'll get back on topic. You say there are lots of schools of philosophical thought. For the most part they all use logic though, correct? Logic relies on the concept of truth, and truth is self-defeating (Munchhausen Trilemma). On the other hand, if your philosophy doesn't rely on truth, you're just making stuff up and I have no reason to find your argument compelling. All philosophy self-destructs under scrutiny.
>>28930829
No, beings too inferior to understand their own meaninglessness are the real cosmic joke.
Truth is the duty of every man, and the falsity of the existences of women, idiots, and animals is pathetic. No man should envy inferior beings.
>>28931076
I'm playing xbox lol
fuck existential crises babby get a job and pay for chad kids like me
>>28931794
>The whole point of that phrase wasn't to show that he did exist, it was to exemplify how unsure he was of anything else existing.
This. It annoys me that most people think that quote was some kind of joyous exultation of ones reality, It was supposed to be a terrifying realization of ones inability to trust in the truth of anything they know or understand.
>>28931835
You're assuming that
>you exist
>your perception of yourself thinking is accurate
Neither can be proven.
>>28931818
None of those things make it a hugbox though. You could say the same about anyone self employed. Which is very similar to being a grad student in some ways, with minor restrictions (eg when you have to teach classes). Apart from that it's mostly self motivation to write, similar to how an authors work schedule might be.
Just because Its not the 9-5 meme it doesn't mean it's a hugbox. 9-5 sounds shit to me, I enjoy my comfy lifestyle.
>>28931857
Well done, you've used one thought experiment to singlehandedly tear down any notion of the existence of truth.
The trilemma refers to ALL knowledge, so every single other field of human thought also breaks down under it's scrutiny.
>>28930829
This whole thread is meaningless. Literally nothing anyone will say will mean anything.
>>28931884
As your first point, fair enough - it might be better to say that 'there exists a thought'.
Your second point is easily surmountable. A perception of thinking is already a thought, it doesn't matter if it's accurate or not. By definition, if there is a perception being had, there is a thought.
>>28931933
You're right! Welcome to nihilism!
>>28931899
>i enjoy my comfy lifestyle
that's my point you dumb spaz. it's not an "academic environment" and it can hardly be called education anymore. you're doing whatever the fuck you want and the people paying for all of it are hoping that's a good investment.
>>28931959
You're not a nihilist.
If you eat food, drink water, or make any effort to maintain your life and avoid suffering, you're not a nihilist.
>>28931959
But you're not a nihilist
>>28931959
>Hey guys I'm a nihlist!
>That's why I'm still alive!
Schools of thought may be "nihilistic" in certain ways, but no one who doesn't simply allow themselves to wither and die where they lay is truly a nihilist.
>>28931952
I used "your perception" because it's the closest phrase I could think of. It's entirely possible that time is a spatial dimension and the universe is god's cave painting, and none of us are moving or perceiving at all.
someone tell me what you believe nihilism is. just in simple terms, i dont want you to bestow wisdom upon me.
>>28931980
>>28931982
>>28932013
As a nihilist I don't believe in philosophy. Why would I follow any coherent patterns of thought or behavior? I can do whatever the fuck I want.
>>28931979
Sorry, don't get mad, I have no idea why you think that it doesn't constitute an academic environment (after all, I am in academia so I'm probably better qualified to judge), other than it sounds like you are just bitter because you have to work harder. Sorry to break your hugbox, but sometimes hard work doesn't pay off. Sometimes less work can produce better results, and I am payed to produce certain things for the university (teaching and publications). Nothing I've talked about so far has made any reference to the actual quality of the work being produced, which is presumably the criteria for whether something is an 'academic environment'.
>>28932034
Well, nihilsm can refer to a lack of faith in any number of things, but existential nihlism (what I assume people here are talking about) is the assertion or realization that nothing holds true meaning, nothing can truly be communicated and nothing holds any intrinsic value one way or another.
Hence, if you make efforts to stay alive, you're holding that living is of more value to you than doing nothing, which isn't nihilism.
>>28932049
>I can do whatever the fuck I want.
>I want
If you want anything, you're not a nihlist.
How can you want anything if nothing is real or holds any value?
also
>I can do whatever the fuck I want.
But do you?
>>28932075
>Hence, if you make efforts to stay alive, you're holding that living is of more value to you than doing nothing, which isn't nihilism.
A nihilist has no obligation to do that which has the most value. You're thinking of utilitarianism.
>>28932049
>As a nihilist
>I can do whatever the fuck I want.
sigh
>>28932027
If that were true the statement would hold. After all, the 'thought' then would be an image painted by God, but it would still exist.
Look, I'm telling you that the cogito has been the subject of centuries of debate. Denying it outright isn't a realistic option, it doesn't make you seem smart or original, it makes you seem ignorant. Perhaps what you want to say is that it is tautological, or meaningless, (I.e. That saying 'a thought exists' imparts no information')?
>>28930829
people might call you edgy but i do find jt funny
good joke god
>>28932099
>How can you want anything if nothing is real or holds any value?
I can want things that have no value. Why is that impossible?
>But do you?
Usually, yeah.
>>28932132
No, I'm saying you can't prove it, much like any other philosophical assertion. Coming up with examples is tedious so I'll stop doing it.
>>28932139
>I can want things that have no value
Then why do you want them?
There must be some reasoning behind your actions, I seriously doubt you act randomly at all times.
>>28932159
I don't know the origin of my instincts, I just follow them. You don't have to rationally prove why you like ice cream.
>>28932156
>No, I'm saying you can't prove it
No? Really? Wow you're so smart anon
>>28932156
Of course you can prove it, exactly in the same way that you can prove 4x2=8. It is a priori true by definition.
>>28932191
And the "definition" is just "because I said so". A Christian could give the same argument.
>>28932185
>I don't know the origin of my instincts,
>I just follow them.
Hence they have some form of meaning or value.
>You don't have to rationally prove why you like ice cream.
No one's talking about rational proof, the very fact that you "like" it shows a level of meaning and value in it, hence not nihlism.
>>28932067
>agrees with me
>rambles on about irrelevant justifications for his mundane lifestyle
>muh results oriented, quality of the work bullshit when you're a liberal arts student who just clearly expressed that its very easy and takes up 2 hours a day
>>28932224
No, the definition is based on the meaning and use of the words.
Are you saying that all of maths is the same as assertion by doctrine?
>>28932228
>Hence they have some form of meaning or value.
That doesn't follow. When a dog licks its balls, is it because ball-licking has value to the dog? No, it's just a dog licking its balls. Same applies to humans.
>>28932262
Yes, I am. Words are defined by people, so it's just another layer of "because I said so".
>>28932238
If it's so easy, why don't more people do it? It's pretty respected and comfy. In reality it's extremely competitive however. Sorry you are so bitter, keep living that American Dream, I'm sure all your hard work will pay off.
>>28932266
>When a dog licks its balls, is it because ball-licking has value to the dog?
The dog has some reason, as difficult to understand to us, for licking it's balls. It is not acting out of randomness.
>>28932291
Fair enough, I hope you're just being facetious by the way, as it's going to be hard going through life being ridiculed for your ideas.
>>28932238
Out of curiosity anon, what do you do?
>>28932325
I doubt the dog thinks about it though, it just acts. What you're saying is that a rock values gravity because it rolls downhill instead of up.
>>28932343
I'm completely serious. When you actually analyze philosophy it all falls apart, which is why I advocate living without philosophy. Live practically, and stop worrying about what is true.
>>28932351
>I doubt the dog thinks about it though, it just acts.
Why?
The dog is an acting agent, it acts on it's whims, of course, but those whims are rooted in some form of reason, whether accurate or not.
>What you're saying is that a rock values gravity because it rolls downhill instead of up.
How are you this retarded
alright so you guys know how at the end rorschach dies purely because he doesnt accept a world peace based on a lie. how do you nihilists feel about it?
>>28932379
Please explain the difference between a dog licking its balls and a rock rolling down a hill. Both are an accumulation of atoms acting according to the laws of physics.
>>28932378
So presumably you don't use any form of mechanical devise, technology, or really any human invention since their function and design is all rooted in mathematical concepts that don't really exist?
>>28932393
not only nihilists, just all of you here in general. but state whether or not you believe the following: on grand scheme of things, life is meaningless.
>>28932378
But you just argued that not only does philosophy fall apart, so does maths, and logic, and the meaning of the sentence 'you should live practically'
Your standpoint is a philosophy in itself, and as such you are guilty of contradiction
>>28932412
No, I use them just fine, and I use the concept of truth because it's useful, even though it's nonsense.
>>28932435
I'm a nihilist, I'm perfectly OK with contradicting myself. Consistency has no value to me.
>>28932441
You do realise pragmaticism is a major school of philosophy?
Idiot.
>>28932401
>Please explain the difference between a dog licking its balls and a rock rolling down a hill.
The dog is an organism that will act within a certain set of bounds due to a combination of learning and evolutionary psychology that has formed in such a way to give it the best chance at reproducing and surviving comfortably. Hence it's actions are based on a form of reason, even if a very base form. It's brain computes the data available to it and then acts in a certain way based on it's interpretation of said data. Hence said action implies some element of "value" or intent in it's actions.
A rock is a rock simply acting under gravity.
You're not trying very hard man
>>28932458
touche
he got you there
>>28932477
Both are deterministic, and your ideas of "reason" and "value" are useless abstractions.
>>28932507
>Both are deterministic
How do you know?
>and your ideas of "reason" and "value" are useless abstractions.
So is everything else, but we must make do with what we have
>>28932475
What's your point? Just because something has a philosophical name, if I do that thing I'm suddenly a philosopher? Fuck off.
>>28932537
The very fact that you deign to "live life practically" is in itself a philosophical notion.
>>28932524
>How do you know?
I don't know.
>So is everything else, but we must make do with what we have
No we don't.
>>28932537
That your idea of rejecting traditional philosophy has been done before. Repeatedly. By people who aren't so pretentious to say "I eschew all philosophy".
I'm saying you are an edgy faggot with no original or unique idea
>>28932316
>why don't more people
what are you talking about? everyone goes to university. my point doesn't revolve around philosophy grad students who LOVE their field SO MUCH that they put a whole 2 hours into it in any given day.
i don't know why you keep saying im bitter but ill pass that off as projection.
>>28932347
QA at a drug company. that's neither here nor there. my education honestly was pathetic but that was a personal choice. i worked as a research scientist for a while, but not having experience really slowed me down.
>>28932559
Sure, call it whatever you want. I might decide to live impractically one day though.
>>28932574
>I'm saying you are an edgy faggot with no original or unique idea
Why does that matter? I don't value originality.
>>28932560
>I don't know.
Then why did you make that claim?
>No we don't.
What do you mean? I was talking about the inherent clumsiness of language and the confusion of language games
>>28932577
Your point as I took it was that the graduate program, such as the one I am in, wasn't an acadamic environment, and focused on making people feel good about themselves instead of educating them.
I took this as your point as it was what you were, in fact, saying.
If you want to backpedal now and say you were talking about undergrads, go ahead. Undergrad, both in STEM and liberal arts, is a total joke and anyone who doesn't soar through easily is an idiot.
>>28932626
>Then why did you make that claim?
I felt like it.
>What do you mean? I was talking about the inherent clumsiness of language and the confusion of language games
You said:
>we must make do with what we have
I was just responding to that, meaning that we don't have to make abstractions.
I've always found it so backwards how butthurt people get when discussing philosophy. The people throwing words like 'edgy' around constantly come across much holier-than-thou than the recipient.
>>28932597
Cool. And I said that you are going to meet a lot of people who think you are a retard and treat you as such with your position. I'm not saying you can't have it, I'm just saying it makes you a faggot who doesn't have friends
>>28931022
/r/iamverysmart
I'm revoking your Re**it card, anon.
>>28932642
i implied any academic institution. you started going off about all these random tangents defending your 2 hours of writing a day.
>still agreeing with me
>still arrogant for some reason
>>28932684
>I was just responding to that, meaning that we don't have to make abstractions.
If words hold no true meaning how are they anything but abstractions?
>>28932772
I'm not sure what your point is any more. If you're agreeing with me, I guess I have nothing else to say. I'll continue to enjoy doing what I love, and not fall for the STEM meme.
>>28932856
>being a grad student for life
i didn't say anything about STEM
>>28932712
you know what woulda been great? if these guy could just calm down and try not to humiliate each other. because for fucks sake, it doesnt really get you anywhere does it? but hey, they do what they want, and if internet has taught me one thing, its that i shouldnt care, intervene and teach em whats right and wrong.
>>28932921
Welcome to 4chan faggot
>>28932921
like go ahead call the guy edgy, tell him he looks like a loser, tell him he is 12 year old cunt trying to sound smart. but for fucks sake for all you know he, he might just me 20 year old trying to have a conversation. but noooooooo, bash him, cos thats how r9k and /b/ deal with something they dont wanna hear
>>28932961
yeah, been there, done that. dont need you to tell me obvious.
rip thread. what did i say that made you guys shut up. it was fun listening to your ideas, go on C:
>>28931254
>>28931068
>HAHA FUCKING KIDS THINK YOURE SO EDGY AND COOL LMAO DO YOU EVEN KNOW THE MEANING OF MEANING?
Shut the fuck up
>>28933384
>DO YOU EVEN KNOW THE MEANING OF MEANING?
fuckin touche m8. it really gets annoying when they try to teach someone not to be smartass while being smartasses themselves
back to when i was newfag, although i still believe i am newfag, purely because i act like one after all this time. so i believed that this, lets call it "mask of anonymity", was supposed to free us from fear of being shunned and judged, meaning it would allow us not to be forced lie on the internet(oh how naive right?). here we could be ourselves, instead of bashing everyone we could communicate and try to understand each other, because here we dont have to lie, we can tell the truth. it didnt take long to realize that i have come to wrong place. wrongest of them all.
i thought here i could find something i yearned for. there are lots of scum out there, but theres just as much here. you people were shunned, ostracized(this is good word i learned other day i opened my mouth) and what not. you hate those who did that. you hate those bullies but fail to realize you are that bully, just on different place.
so listen up robots. i just wanted a friend
