I will die if this goes on.
All my life I have tried to follow my ethical framework as closely as possible. This framework has changed through time and it has turned increasingly amoral but "fair" so to speak. Basically I try so everyone (including me), at least but not only the ones involved with me one way or another, have the greatest control over their life as possible.
The problem is my desires and inner world are a complete mess and sometimes I feel like I have to ignore my ethical framework. This is literally the only thing keeping me from cheating on my gf, underground human experiments (where they agree under rather shady conditions) and overall being a huge asshole.
How can I be a decent human being as naturally as most people seem to be?
>>28834010
>human experiments
You are not some king with great power...you are most likely a deluded NEET lord. Even if you tried to be unethical ...you couldn't do much. The popo will get you if you tried something big..
>>28834164
Lol I do not care about it being big. It is mostly for my amusement.
Doubt the popo would care if nobody dies or is seriously harmed. Also I could slowly gather data and then play around with it.
You have ignored the central point of this.
>>28834010
>underground human experiments
?
anyway, do you judge those that don't seem to follow your proposed rule set? If I'm understanding correctly, does that mean "you have the freedom to do whatever you want as long as it doesn't interfere with anyone else's freedoms"?
I don't think most people are naturally decent. It takes an environment that supports them through the whole of their upbringing to mush them into society. The environment has been compounded through . . . i dunno a fuckload of time where there's a framework for people to learn how to synergize for survival and supposed prosperity.
If we're talking about a raw human being, that's a selfish creature. But we don't live in a vacuum. We depend on each other. We depend on the upkeep of infrastructure and decency and such.
You're struggling with the whole society thing (right?) and sometimes feel like you being an individual should override any needs of the your peers. But you've been so careful not to oversteps those boundaries that it's messing with you and it feels like you're not allowed to accomplish what you feel is necessary (in terms of having a fulfilling life instead of a part of a the larger mass).
I'm probably projecting or understanding you incorrectly but if this is the case I think you'll just have to make a choice. If you define an asshole to be someone that pushes themselves above others then . . . yes doing those things like cheating on your girlfriend will make you an asshole. You don't get to have both complete freedom and the blessings from the people you live on earth with. If you don't care about those blessings or are frustrated with your current place then prepare for consequences. Otherwise, cheat the system. Money is a good way to do this.
For many it might seem easy because they're content living their life with others. And you'll see plenty of counterexamples where people lash out or push themselves above others because they're "fed up" or bored.
Chances are you have some insecurities or frustrations in life which are manifesting themselves in this way.
Identify and fix them, then you can move on.
>>28834325
This is basically me trying to restate your issue. If I'm wrong let me know. This dialogue is happening over an imageboard about frogs so intent is not always clear. Also I have my own values and ideas that I'm sure muddle the mixture.
And what are you on about in terms of experiments? Is this like "raise a child without human contact. Drop the food in the small room" kind of shit? Or like physical and psychedelic torture kind of stuff? Or is it simply promise one thing, give another, measure the level of conflict, try to simplify the human emotional response kind of "experiments"?
>>28834325
Underground human experiments with drugs and performance enhancing substances (exploiting every loophole I find to get the chems). Just something that I would find entertaining.
Already cheating the system. Money is not a problem. About being an asshole as defined here, would it be asshole-ish to "break some boindaries" in order for the other to draw the line "closer to them" as to give me more space/freedom so to speak?
My main struggle is to make my feelings and headspace match the aforementioned ethical framework.
>>28834447
I would try honesty instead. Things might not work out how you hope they will, but maybe they will. If you absolutely need this AND you don't want to step on anyone this is your only real option.
If you're constantly trying to redefine your framework you're just living without one.
>>28834447
If you've got money/insurance and time go searching for a therapist. You might have to shop around to find someone that clicks (you're dealing with people here), but it can be helpful. They'll try to help you to both figure out what you need in life to be happy and then develop a plan to get it.
It's frustrating because there's no easy answer. You can't get everything that you want without risk. You have to determine what is worth that risk and what is not. There's only so much time for each individual, but doing a little set-up for up to a few years is usually worth it.
You're fucked in the head desu. Got a personality disorder although I don't know which.
Can't change it. Either embrace it or continue playing a role for the outside world.
Or get on antidepressants or maybe antipsychotics and you'll probably become level, but numb, enough to function without pretending.
>>28834597
I know you are right. I usually tell no lies, but I guess really being honest is telling whole truths. Although there is also time. They have to have all the info from the start? How do I know other's will play with their cards face up too?
>>28834661
Done that. Kinda worked but the meds they gave me made me more zombie like and anhedonia.
>>28834680
Dropped those. Used psychedelics instead and while there are disadvantages, they do not give me hellish side effects and also prevent the anxiety/panic attacks
>>28834721
Psychedelics can't cure issues that are rooted in physiology.
And the one thing they can fix, your personality disorder, apparently was unaffected.
Like I said: get professional help or continue what you're doing.
Hey OP, I have a question.
What would you feel if you saw a kitten getting its head smashed in?
>>28834778
Psilocybin seems to help with the shrinkage associated with depression since it promote neurogenesis in the affected areas. That is if I recall correctly.
>>28834790
I would probably be annoyed by the sound and the smell. Smashing a skull requires considerable force.
>>28834010That's just something you'll have to figure out for yourself. Once you've abandoned the conventional frameworks, you can't go back to them. You're like a ship with a cut anchor.
>>28834010
>wanting to be spooked
>>28834680
>>28834778
From my (very) limited experience as a non-psychologist, my first guess would be antisocial personality disorder with a healthy dose of egomania. In a nutshell, psychopathy.
That aside, my first inclination would be to zoom in on the final line of OP's post:
>How can I be a decent human being as naturally as most people seem to be?
Shocking as it may be, the most-visible among human society also tend to be the shittiest types of human beings. As our environs shift to a more overtly-aggressive and hostile theme, the struggle to trample over others for one's own personal acclaim becomes even more imminent; if this natural tooth-and-nail fight for survival is not done with a smile and a fetching mode of dress, of course, the individual is pointed to as an outcast and made an example of. And then, of course, there are the inherently self-motivating and mindlessly-cheerful individuals that are blissfully unaware of these social mores; these tend to be the least-contributive to society in spite of their aesthetically-charitable fronts.
As can be observed, society is nothing more than a mindless struggle to survive framed within an arbitrarily-polite framework.
As for the usage of psychedelics, I am surprised that nobody has brought up the Stoned Monkey Theory. tl;dr, it entails that as the human species evolved from its primitive state, the prevailing usage of psilocybin on a day-to-day basis served as the very root of human society, with the synesthesia experienced from the mushrooms serving to bolster the development of language, religion, and other societal mores. It also supposedly explains why the initial humans among this group tended to be more easy-going "by nature"; due to the constant prevalence of psychotropic substances in their bodily constitutions.
Essentially, OP, your own socio-ethical framework does not seem that disparate from human society as a whole.
>>28834010
Holy shit OP, I drew that image. Never expected to see it used lmao
>>28835810
As most of humanity has come to agree with, your frameworks keep your innate desires and instincts in-check. The only thing I could suggest is either finding a psychedelic (or other psychoactive substance) that can consistently serve your needs, or perhaps finding a hobby of some sort to keep your mind away from these societally-centric concerns.
>>28834010
Just do what I do and don't be an asshole because it wastes time.
>>28835821
>>28835810
This is actually very useful. I doubt I am a paychopath, and even if I am, the course of action would not change.
I guess I will distract myself with my projects and keep trying to be a decent person according to a revised ethical framework that is not fundamentally different but takes my limitations in consideration.
>>28835225
What.
>>28835030
Ok. Not really useful, but thanks.
>>28834010
Stop Posting Stirner REEEEEEEEEEEEE
>>28836898
Cool, glad I could be of some help.
Going to have to agree with you on the psychopath thing. As labels, "psychopath" and "sociopath" are just about as worthless as their stem of "antisocial personality disorder."
Though they can allow for increased introspection (to an extent), these psychological labels tend to serve better as markers for the "undesirables" that make society uncomfortable than honest descriptors. The psycho"therapeutic" system, then, is the tool used by the smiling and sharply-dressed society to haul those undesirables away.
That tendency towards self-focus can be a boon with regard to dealing with society. Focusing on others' perceptions and desires all the time can be a real drain.
