There is a mental health crisis in this country and a lot of it has to do with our institutions and the very fabric of how or society is structured. Something is very, very wrong. We are completely decoupled from our evolutionary biology in so many ways; we do not live in a world that even remotely resembles that which the anatomically modern human (AMH) evolved to reside in. Think for a second how us AMH's lived for (literally) 90% of our existence:
did you just read ISAIF?
I wrote the rest out before hand and it's not letting me paste it in
>>28827456
I feel crushed
>>28827378
...continued...
>We were nomadic hunter-gathers who INTIMATELY know every-single human being that travelled in our group and whom we interacted with on a daily basis
>>28827504
>EVERYTHING was shared and we needed extremely tight-knit emotional bonds to survive the frozen tundra
>>28827378
You're right, OP, and other people have noticed it.
Look up the Unabomber's manifesto.
>>28827378
Ye famicom.
Gotta cut carbs n start running a lot at the bare minimum.
Going over old photos from the start of the year, people are right, my face is thinner than it used to be.
I wonder what I'll look like in 12 weeks when I'm meant to be down to my goal. I'll have lost a fifth of my weight. That's like losing a leg. How crazy.
>>28827540
>We were physically and mentally active all day
>We ate plants and sometimes meat. We did not eat a lot
>There was no pair-bonding
>>28827570
>everyone was fucking everyone and the children were raised communally; paternity was of no concern
>>28827378
>humans drastically alter the way they live in the span of <2000 years
>body hardly changes at all
well yeah, we haven't caught up but we're kinda in too deep as it is right now
>>28827596
Life was tough, but we survived. We were intimately connected to each other and to nature. Everything we did served a tangible purpose to our survival. There were no strangers.
>>28827612
>well yeah, we haven't caught up but we're kinda in too deep as it is right now
There's no going back, but this is who we still are. Once agriculture was invented and societies and technology grew, so too grew issues with being decoupled from who we still were naturally
>>28827612
>but we're kinda in too deep as it is right now
this pretty much. We will adept to it in the future, we have shaped nature, physics and the world and I wouldn't even be surprised if soon we would shape ourselves too.
>>28827671
The very early thinkers were well aware of this. Religious law (the word of God) was invented as a form of social control in order to prevent people from reverting back to who they are naturally. Why?
>>28827570
>There was no pair-bonding
citation, kek. are you referring to early hominids or sapiens?
>>28827715
Because the natural order of things is no way to build a modern society. Religious, economic, governmental and other institutions served a very important role in advancing human technological innovation.
>served.
>>28827754
As social critic Bill Hicks used to say about our institutions...
(look up Bill Hick's famous quote about institutions being no longer relevant, I don't want to get muted)
>>28827780
Thanks to our now obsolete institutions, we live in a post-scarcity world. Erm, ok, not how things are currently set up obv., but in regards to what is technologically possible
>>28827812
>We could feed, house and clothe every single human being on planet earth.
>We can travel at unthinkable speeds using magnets and evacuated tubes
>We can grow food aeroponically without soil
>We could go "Water World" status and build floating cities on the sea if we ran out of land (which we won't anytime soon, there's plenty of unused land)
This is technically possible. We can move beyond petty partisan politics, crushing abject poverty, and petty perpetual war. What's stopping us?
>THE END
>>28827692
First we have to end human suffering and then we can all explore space together
>>28827566
Paleo diet is a great start.
>>28827914
It would be awesome but I doubt that we will ever explore space, let alone end human suffering. We try to help some random ass country but can't fix our own problems.
>>28827419
no, do you mean ASOIAF? I don't know what ISAIF is
>>28827972
That's because we are not getting at the root cause of our problems. Are you familiar with The Zeitgeist Movement?
>>28827721
Homo Sapiens. Read this book.
>>28827721
https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=LJhklPJz9U8
Watch this 14 min ted talk with the author to get the gist of what the book talks about
>>28827988
I've seen the movies yeah but I didn't take them too serious to be honest. I just think that everyone should fix their own problems first and then try to help other countries, at least if the cause of your problems lies within your country, if the cause is external you should always try to fix that. Because right now we are all just putting out new fires without giving a shit about the burning piece of wood that starts them in the first place.
>>28828109
The world is interconnected it goes beyond any one nation, not counting current hunter-gather socities
>>28827547
I have never read it
>>28828042
can't watch now, but the theory I always heard was that hominids started as a one or a few males with a harem and as groups gradually got larger, monogamy developed to allow these tribes to exist without excessive inbreeding.
>>28827419
>every result on google is about the International Symposium on Experimental and Computational Aerothermodynamics of Internal Flows (ISAIF)
Explain, nigger
>>28828265
Honestly I don't even know how to answer correctly right now because I am fucking tired but yeah, the world has a fucking lot of problems that can't be fixed by any nation alone and that affect us all and I have used the wrong words to get my message across. I just think that every nation has some problems that should have a slightly higher priority than others because it affects them directly, but there are problems that still should have a higher priority than these local problems, eg international wars, financial crisis like in europe, global warming; but still we can't all fix the world if we damage ourselves in the progress.
>>28828012
Probably some cultural marxist crap.
>>28828357
I've heard that too. I'm not sure if that theory applies to hunter-gathers or to post agriculture/pasturization
>>28828451
The book has no opinion on what sexual strategy to adopt in modern times, it only only presents the evidence of the likely sexual strategy of very early hunter-gatherers, which would be essentially impossible to mimmick today, (unless you go join a modern hunter-gather society)
>>28828451
also, the author is married to one women and they say that they are in a monogamous relationship
>>28827889
Moloch.
I agree with this but only partially. I'm a programmer, and when I get home I play computer games. Don't get me wrong, I like what I do for a living, and I still enjoy games, but it's terribly unhealthy. I'm on my ass all day, I don't know how I'm not a fat shit. I also live in a frantic area, there's lots of traffic, lots of construction. I did the math, I spend hundreds of hours in traffic every year.
I've been saving money, I am going to try to buy a small house in the country. I think merely living in the city is bad for you. I read a study that found city dwellers are much more likely to have anxiety and insomnia problems. I'll still do computer work for a living but hopefully 100% remotely. I'm fine with taking a pay cut for that kind of arrangement. And I'm going to try to revive an old hobby of mine, hiking and walking instead of driving.
I don't think you need to become an extremist, you just have to find a balance. Yearning for the lives of humans hundreds or thousands of years ago is kind of silly... Most people died young, something like tooth decay or a bite from the wrong mosquito could end your life. All the evidence shows it wasn't like Pocahontas, like Westerners like to imagine. It was a struggle for survival just like wild animals deal with now, and millions of people deal with in the third world. A lot of people have a false sense of nostalgia.
>>28827378
i think mental illness is our next evolutionary leap, and this time period just has the shit end of the stick, we can't stop it, and aren't prepared to accommodate it. did cavemen have schizophrenia, agoraphobia, misophonia, all that shit? what happened when they broke bones? shamans set bones, though, that's only within the past 5000 years. even then, without orthopedics, then what does a disabled person do?
>>28827566
I quit smoking and could run 30KM whilst I was vegan, eating a lot of white rice and bananas as my staple foods.
Life began as a virus.
>>28827812
the supply end of "supply and demand" is no longer relevant. supply is limitless.
what would happen if we got rid of a mandated minimum wage? how do we accommodate an autonomous society
>>28828770
>Moloch
reading about that on wikipedia. Creepy stuff. Why did you say that?
>>28828817
>Yearning for the lives of humans hundreds or thousands of years ago is kind of silly.
I agree. I don't yearn for that life, all I do is recognize that's the life that we evolved to live. We shouldn't go back and we can't go back, but I think it explains why we are depressed. I agree we need to find balance.
>>28828838
I have no idea, but possibly they were left behind or euthanized (or eaten :-/)
>>28828890
That's nice, although I don't know what the long term health risks might be.
I eat white rice too, but not large quantities. White rice is a fairly inoffensive grain and Asians have been very successful with it.
This podcast http://podbay.fm/show/334102952/e/1381348800?autostart=1 gives the argument for roughly a paleo diet instead of veganism, for health reasons, although they essentially punt the environmental/moral argument against eating meat.
The episode before it (No. 129 promotes veganism)
>>28828955
The how is extremely tricky, and I am no expert or spokesman for the movement. They have come out with an orientation guide/book, which i quite long and I haven't read it all myself, although I've listened to lots of lectures on the topic.
http://thezeitgeistmovement.com/uploads/upload/file/15/TZM_Guide_Essays_1-13.pdf
As for the minimum wage, they abolish money altogether and step up instead what they call a "resource based economy." So no, it's not communism or Marxism because those both still use money.
>>28828817
>it wasn't like Pocahontas
But at the same time we're finding that they were often much more civilized than we give them credit for.
For example, the Cherokee, Choctaw and a few other tribes had large cities with advanced societies and trade routes spanning the entire east-side of the Mississippi. Not to mention that Rome, India and China all developed running water and sewers and some new stuff I read suggests that the Inca had underground aqueducts for irrigation.
But since this thread is about hunter-gatherers, just watch primitivetechnology on yt and see what just one man can do starting from scratch. I'm sure they had herbs and stuff to repel mosquitoes and clean wounds. It wasn't as good as modern medicine and the lack of food kept populations down, but I don't think it was nearly as bad as people living in 3rd world slums or animals who can't even apply a simple bandage.
But I do agree with you tho, humans aren't evolved for sitting around and living in beehives.
>>28829505
>>28828890
You niggas better supplement with magnesium if you're eating white rice
>>28828838
>mental illness is our next evolutionary leap
Are you referring to the rat-city experiment?
>did cavemen have all that shit?
I remember hearing something about an anthropologist who visited an inuit tribe.
He asked them if they had narcissistic people and how they dealt with them.
Someone finally admitted that they did have those people, but they usually "fell" in the water while no one was looking.
They also talked about how stuff like public displays of anger and frustration were considered extremely childish and pathetic. So I based on that anecdote I would assume that crazy people simply weren't tolerated.
Alternatively iirc there's some demon/tiger-spirit possession belief in Indonesia where someone goes berzerk and chases people with a machete for a while and then eventually settles down and everything goes back to normal. So I guess it depends.
>What happened when they broke bones?
I read somewhere about dental drills and tooth fillings dating back at least 5000 years. Bone-setting should be easy compared to that.
>>28829599
I dont supplement but i get magnesium from natural sources
>>28829942
The book i referenced above (sex at dawn) talks about how current and historical hunter gather societies used shame and ostraizaton against selfish/narcicistic behavior. Interesting how if that didnt work they just killed them essentially. Makes sense, that type of thinking could fuck them all over in their society.
>>28829587
Our meat and instincts aren't evolved for that, but our minds are adapted to it. It's worth remembering that a lot of the adapting we've done in the past few thousand years occurred entirely within the mind and isn't transmitted via genes, but is instead passed down via learning.
I don't think it's arguable, either, that the adaptations that have happened have made humans much more successful of a species. We're everywhere, there's fucktons of us, and a lot of us live in material wealth.
What is questionable is whether these mental adaptations make us happy (evolutionary benefit and happiness don't necessarily coincide) and whether they'll work out in the long run. Maybe this is a temporary burst of success that presages the death of the species, leaving us ranked well below the shark and the beetle on the totem pole of evolutionary success.
I don't know, though. What we "should" be and "should" do is a pretty complex question.
>>28830320
>What is questionable is whether these mental adaptations make us happy
Good point. Part of the depression many suffer in the modern age I think is due that fact that we intuitively know that we have not reached our potential as humans and we aren't really on a path to reach our potential. I think there is an innate drive in us to always improve because back in the day you had to always think about the next threat and what could be done better. Our "careers" just don't do that for us. We know we are on the wrong path.
For others, ignorance is bliss they don't think about this, and they are blessed by their lower IQs bc they have no desire or ability to care. Keep in mind these are the people who are breeding. Again, we are not on the right path and a lot of people know this.
>>28827378
Humans have the perfect environment for their shitty nature. We are only top of the food chain with technology. We are weak without it. Most humans hate camping since they can't take it. They also need AC and automobiles to move around (horses, elepants and camels before that.) Monkeys and apes that actually adapted to this planet jump around on trees, have perfect balance and coordination, and don't need shoes and other clothing to survive their environment. Something is messed up about the human anatomy. It's like we were thrown together haphazardly with all kinds of defects that we mask with tech.
>>28827547
This this this. The Unabomber was extremely on point. He was really fucking smart and he understood what was happening. A shame how he decided to spread the word. It's very possible he chose his targets very carefully and obviously he knew more about them than I did, but it seemed he was killing people who would be most capable of understanding him, those who might even agree. I can't imagine why he'd target them over the more uninformed and less open minded general population.
>>28830672
How is he right? He just makes some vast claim about how people were happier before industrialization, but then provides no data. It's an argument with no substance. There's no info on the happiness levels of people from pre-1700s.
And data which attempts to measure happiness finds that developed countries are overall happier than non developed ones( Which doesn't necessarily imply that people weren't happier in the past, but it provides doubt) Of course, it doesn't mean that industrialization hasn't harmed people in some ways, but how can you claim it has been overall negative?
>>28830769
I think he was on point about the anxieties of modern living, not that we should revert
>>28828770
Reading "Meditations on Moloch" fucked my shit up
>>28827419
Not OP, but I connected with ISAIF more than any text ever
>you will never naturally engage in the power process
>ywn experience true life, only surrogate shit
>you will always be oversocialized into autistic hell
I want to kill the bastard who discovered that planted seeds would grow into food
>>28830615
Hmm, are you suggesting that humans are not from this planet? It kinda sounds like you're suggesting that. What what about how similar our DNA is to chimps and bonobos? I think we develop genetic adaptations because we are so adataple so it wasn't necessary; we could make coats out of the beast we killed. Also, we can run and walk really easily, jump, throw shit, pick up shit make tools because of our thumbs, etc. We didn't need to have fur or other rando stuff like that
>>28831094
Can you explain more what this text is about (also what ISAIF stands for...)
>tfw i was physically and mentally motivated before discovering social structure and my place within it, used to explore in the woods all day with my friend from ukraine
>tfw half my brain is compromised by the societal "cloud" that comes with needing to interact with an impersonal social structure to survive ,which affects my feelings and thought process in such a way as to artificially impact my biological needs
>>28831317
This is very interesting. I recall reading somewhere that someone did a study on primates and their social structure. I'm not sure how much I remember correctly and how the study was done, but from my memory: they found that the primates at the bottom of the hierarchy or in lower positions had higher cortisol levels, were highly stressed, more anxious, etc.
However they found the ones outside of the hierarchy entirely, or ones that were alone for whatever reason were just as happy as the ones as the top of the hierarchy.
I apply that to humanity: i feel happier when i'm somewhere alone than when i'm forced to participate in the social structure that I have low value in. I remember how the greatest moments of my life were ones where I was in the woods alone, where no one could see me and no one could judge me, where I didn't feel compared to anyone. I ate mushrooms when I was younger and that was a strong theme of my trip. I think any social structure is a complete loss for anyone at the bottom. Why bother being shit on and treated poorly when we have reached a point in humanity where we can live more alone than ever before, and comfortably.
This has largely shaped my goal for life. I just want to live somewhere quiet and secluded, I want to limit my interactions with society as much as possible. To deal with loneliness, maybe i'll just get dogs.
I've always viewed Alaska as a great candidate, or somewhere in the midwest maybe.
>>28827378
This is why there is so much drug alcohol abuse society has told you that things like hunting lighting a fire are unnaceptable people in ancient times found a plot of land built a house now they make us literal slaves paying off a tiny piece of land something is fucked in the world today
>>28827973
>>28828392
Industrial Society and it's Future
>>28831731
This is because of overpopulation, it isn't active suppression. We are too far down the rabbit hole of growth to go back now. Singularity or bust desu
>>28831761
I think overpopulation is a myth. There is plenty of unused land; it's the population centers, the places with the jobs, that are over populated. If we ever ran out of land we could build structures on the sea. Earth is big.
>>28827378
Fuck that shit. INTP I would die in that shit whole without doing anything. I don't need to worry about that survival stuff in modern society and people get judged by their intellect more and more.
>>28831471
>it's better to be alone and not participate than to be low status
Yeah, that is prolly true. That is an individual solution, but it is not a solution that will advance the humam race and help us reach our potential
>>28831317
I agree. I used to love learning and be full of curiosity but learning how the world really works and realizing I'd need to find some sort of role really zapped that to a large extend. I still care about topics like this but I have little motivation to find my place bc i know in the long run i will be more depressed. Having children frightens me.
>>28832930
Most people do not have intellect and are mindless consumers and victims of culture. Have you found hapiness in the modern age? Did u read the rest? The OP was just part one
>>28830839
Could you provide a brief summary, i read the wikipedia pagr on tge general term and it was creepy.
>>28831094
Started reading it and i am already loving this. So glad ppl mentioned this text on this thread
>>28831747
Thank you, you are a hero in this thread
>>28827378
> Think for a second how us AMH's lived for (literally) 90% of our existence:
polygamist rape based economies?
>>28831094
>i want to kill the bastard who discovered that planted seeds would grow into food
most anthropologists think it was probablywomen
>>28827570
>there was no pair bonding
You should read the naked ape if you're interested in this topic.
Sometimes during our development as a tribal species, our stronger males started assigning "wives" to lesser males to prevent bloodshed and disorder.
Pair bonding was needed to survive, they needed those weaker males too and it worked out fine.
>>28828770
So essentially in modern context, abortion is the main factor preventing this utopia from happening?
>>28831731
If land payments were removed, we would be in a hostile situation where we have to defend our little 'safe places' from others who want to take over. :^)
>>28833753
>berry gathering women found a lazy way of collecting berries
>>28827889
game theory
if one is selfish, he's guaranteed to benefit
else, the probability to benefit is lower but rewards are higher
and because we have a huge population, being selfish is much more easy
thus we currently have a corrupted world
The real problem here is that self pity has become so fucking popular that we don't stick up for our problems anymore. We're always blaming someone or something for our mistakes and we care so fucking much about society's opinion. Just look at those feminists, gay/lesbian/trans, fat people etc.
Mental health is just an illusion and just a stupid excuse to blame. Not even therapists know what the fuck to do.
thank god I'm doing a paper that should have been handed in seven days ago that briefly touches the topic of this thread
being decoupled from evolutionary biology is first, not necessarily a bad thing, and secondly, goes so slowly it's fucking laughable you think we've decoupled from it
humans 'evolve' much faster through the cumulative information of our species. It takes millions of years for a tree to gradually learn that flowers of a specific colour attract bees and propagate that new successful mutation. Humans find something that works, and it's spread across the species within only a few generations.
in fact, it's this rapid non-biological evolutionary pathway which is what gives us our edge, if we stuck to biological evolution in some caveman state, humanity would be fucked.
>>28830516
>For others, ignorance is bliss they don't think about this, and they are blessed by their lower IQs bc they have no desire or ability to care. Keep in mind these are the people who are breeding. Again, we are not on the right path and a lot of people know this.
so what youre saying is that the movie Idiocracy is actually a bigger social commentary on the path humans may take
>>28827378
The issue today is that a female can get hundreds of instances of male validation with today's technology. Whereas just a generation ago a woman would find maybe a couple suitors. This is what will crumble the west. Just look how much of their own resources melenial men use to attract a mate.
>>28830769
>>How is he right? He just makes some vast claim about how people were happier before industrialization, but then provides no data. It's an argument with no substance.
If you can't feel how he was right in the very core of your being, you are a pod person.
Virtually every major problem with the world today is caused by overpopulation. Ideally we would heavily incentivise contraception and abortion and try to get the world population under 1 billion or so within a couple of centuries.
>>28835335
>Virtually every major problem with the world today is caused by globalization
Fixed for truth Herschel.
>>28833017
So? Why do we have a duty to "advance the human race"?
