Marx was right about a lot more than people give him credit for.
>>28710040
List some things he was right about.
>>28710040
"Work as hard as you can, get only what you need"
Tell me how this isn't slavery again?
>>28710040
Why the fuck are there so many obvious paid shills on here?
one of history's biggest memes
>>28710107
Except marx never said anything like that.
I assume you're referring to "From each according to their ability, to each according to their need". What is meant by that is that resources should be shared so that people can use them or contribute to the resource pile as needed. The need for labor will regulate itself. No work means no stuff.
>>28710089
Specifically his critiques of capitalism. I feel a lot of his diagnosis was spot on, even if I don't agree with the treatment.
He was very much right about the struggle between labor and capital making capitalism an unstable system by nature. He was right about class exploitation.
>>28710040
Fuck off commie shill this is your third thread of the night by my count.
>>28710158
what I wonder is how that gives those of great ability any incentive to use their talents, if all they'll ever get is what someone else decides that they need.
>>28710040
Capitalism has reached its limit just like he said it would, Now technological unemployment is rendering it obsolete.
The only reason question is what will come next?
My guess is socialism or at least some hybrid form of it.
Good bread comrade
have a bump
>>28710238
>Good bread
Something you'll never get under socialism :^)
>>28710202
>if all they'll ever get is what someone else decides that they need.
This shouldn't be an issue for you. You should be content with getting only what you need.
Such as?
Your comment wasn't original. Pinko
>>28710040
>>28710315
>you should give your very best effort, but you should be content with getting only the minimum
isn't this what you're mad at capitalism for doing to workers?
>>28710202
>people need incentives to make them do what I want them to
Tell me how this isn't slavery again?
>>28710357
>isn't this what you're mad at capitalism for doing to workers?
If everyone received the same then it wouldn't be an issue for two reasons:
It would stop people from envying the upper class and the upper class from shitting on the lower class. There would be a balance of power. This leads to the second reason:
If what the society was receiving was not enough, the entire society would revolt and restructure so that what is received is enough.
Right now the upper class both gets too much while the lower class gets too little, and the upper class has too much power to be overthrown by the lower class.
>>28710393
>It would stop people from envying the upper class and the upper class from shitting on the lower class. There would be a balance of power.
because people wouldn't form little cliques and envy and hate each other for petty reasons. Nope, they only ever do that shit over socioeconomic class, never ever for anything else.
>>28710449
>because people wouldn't form little cliques and envy and hate each other for petty reasons. Nope, they only ever do that shit over socioeconomic class, never ever for anything else.
That problem can never be fixed. Why not fix the issues that can be fixed?
Why would you defend a system that exploits you, anyway? That's what I can't understand about people who despise socialism. Especially on this board it doesn't make sense. If you make hundreds of thousands of dollars per year then by all means hate it, but if you're making less than 100k/yr then you really have no reason to dislike socialism.
>>28710341
Well for starters, he was right about capitalism being highly exploitative. Labor, under capitalism does not own the means of production, they don't see the wealth or profits that they create. Workers in capitalism, in all sectors sell their daily lives and get little in return compared to what they output.
Marx has nothing for the robot. His Platonic utopia will not fix our status. Nietzsche is the only tonic for curing robothood. We cannot go back and fix what made us into the malformed dregs of humanity we are but we can rise above this status and ascend to a higher plane meaning.
Leave the 'Truth' behind and instead learn to live with lies. I feel most robots are too honest, too obsessed with what is true, what is right, what is just. Learn to overcome your ressentiment of the human condition before even considering what is noble and you will be a happier man.
Why do you choose to live in ignorance, robots? You could be so much more, you can grow your mind, see the world and become who you want to be. Why do you live for another man, and why should another man live for you? Do you believe you owe something to those below you? Why should you do something for your fellow man? Do you believe parasites should exist because of your work? Do not let the hero in your soul perish, it was only frustration for the life you deserved but never been able to reach. The world you deserved can be won, it exists, it is real, it is possible and it is yours. Fight, Fight for the value of your person. Fight for the virtue of your pride. Fight for the essence of that which is man: for his sovereign rational mind. Fight with the radiant certainty and the absolute rectitude of knowing that yours is the Morality of Life and that yours is the battle for any achievement, any value, any grandeur, any goodness, any joy that has ever existed on this earth.
You will win when you are ready to pronounce the oath, I swear-by my life and my love of it-that I will never live for the sake of another man, nor ask another man to live for mine.
>>28710491
I don't find the fact that some people have more stuff than me to be morally offensive. I find it much more morally offensive to take someone else's stuff by force.
>>28710571
>I find it much more morally offensive to take someone else's stuff by force.
Why? Why is it morally acceptable for one person to have far more than he could ever need while many suffer and don't have enough? Why is it morally offensive to take the excess from said person and distribute it to the people in need?
Keep in mind "but those people are lazy! that's why they're poor!" is not a valid argument.
>>28710571
>stuff
>people's
>implying that 'rights' including property rights exist
stay spooked my property.
>>28710202
>people need an incentive to use their talents
do you get paid for doing your hobbies? do you get paid for the research you do personally? do you get paid for all the housework you do? Would you get paid if you went to a workshop to make a thing you wanted for youself?
People don't need a reason to do, they just do.
>>28710215
>My guess is socialism or at least some hybrid form of it.
Why would it? Capitalism is absolutely limitless. Just look at your basic P2W MMO, they can always introduce a new tier of shiny useless shit to make people pay for it.
>>28710491
>>
>Why would you defend a system that exploits you, anyway? That's what I can't understand about people who despise socialism.
Because every homeless person is a temporarily indisposed millionaire.
>>28710516
Labor is exploitative, capitalism is your boogey man.
https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=Ks7f-UZNeug
What jobs do you provide? You got an idea or product you tried to push and keep the economy working? I'm thinking you read a book and thought that it matches up. At best have you heard the cliche' about good intentions?
If someone asked me what it takes to make it, it's just what I need. I need X amount. If someone says can you produce Y amount. Whether I come up with Y amount myself or get someone else to do it. When you fuck other people over well past your X it's not the fault of capitalism inherently. There are other ideological issues at play.
I don't know about that, but if commies were still shooting up places and blowing shit up, I'd be all over that.
>>28710869
Not to mention, it's not right to fuck people over to meet your X amount when trying to get the Y. Y is just a means. The other problems are bigger.
You know what if you're a communist, explain Rhodesia you faggot. The commies won there. I'm not saying the previous was good or right. The commies got free reign and take a look at them now.
>>28710624
well for one there's a big mismatch between things people do because they're enjoyable hobbies and the things you need to have done in society. Plenty of programmers work on open-source software because they like programming. But they work on stuff they find interesting. Which is why there are lots of programmers' utilities but not much tax-accounting software. Besides, do we only want people to do things if they have the correct motivations? If someone wants to do something useful for other people solely for the purposes of monetary gain, and wouldn't bother doing it for any other motivation, do we really want to forego his contribution, because he's not altruistic and pure?
>>28710585
one - golden rule. I wouldn't much like it if someone took my things because they decided that they deserved them more, so I shouldn't say I deserve stuff more than someone else and take it from him.
two - you can't really take away property rights - you can just take them away from those who can't defend them. Those with the means to stop other people from taking things from them will still enjoy property, it's only the rest of us that will be disenfranchised. Better that everyone enjoy that which is theirs, with protection for this under law, than for only people willing to use force. Even if that means some people will wind up with more than others.
>>28710869
Well that depends on what you consider capitalism to be, personally I would say that the "mutually beneficial exchange" myth is the most damaging thing about it. The very basic definition of capitalism is just fine, but this ideological quagmire built around it is the real problem.
>>28710946
>Better that everyone enjoy that which is theirs
But in capitalist society you don't enjoy what's yours at all.
>>28710869
I don't find it very clear what this post is trying to convey or ask, but I don't have any real interest in making "the next big thing." It's also important to state that what sells is not necessarily useful or good for a society.
>>28710978
if you're talking about my labor, actually I do. I can use it solely for my own benefit if I want - people can and do start businesses or create things solely for private use. I can choose to sell my labor if I want to, to any willing buyer. Or I can choose not to.
>>28710970
Okay let's cut the shit around the quagmires.
We can do this looking at real life examples.
Ireland vs. Zimbabwe. Ireland is capitalist and is drawing investors and economic competitors from the US and other hotspots. The US is even drawing high profile capitalist economic people from Ireland. That country is torn in two and wants independence from "The west" as people refer to the power over it since it wants independence in one part.
Zimbabwe is communist. Communists won independence. It's a fucking nightmare to live there in every way possible.
Do you think this is an unfair advantage? Zimbabwe started as a country not under the influence of "The west" as commies say crush them under their boot heels with oppression. They're commies with pinko backing to get there and no western influence to oppose it.
>>28711190
None of this is relevant to anything in my post and you appear to be rambling.
>>28711190
Zimbabwe was fucked from the start with corruption and incompetence by nigger leaders. It's not fair to use it as an example.
As many have said, Communism without capitalist corruption has never existed.
Bump 4 marx
>>28711249
>As many have said, Communism without capitalist corruption has never existed.
well given that we have capitalism, guess we'll never be able to get to communism then, since there'll always be capitalist corruption. and you can keep your vision of how everything would be a utopia if only the entire world was arranged so that it'd work
>>28711311
purging and murder has nothing to do with communism.
i'm talking about economically. it is not fair to compare ireland and fucking nigger africa nowhere.
economically many communist states worked out well, but there was capitalist corruption where the ruling class owned more than they should have.
>>28711346
and there's always going to be said corruption, because there will always be some people who want power and stuff and are able and willing to use charm, guile, force, or anything else they can lay their hands on to get it. Those people will wind up being the ones running the show, because they're the ones who will do whatever it takes to do so.
your dream is impossible because it requires human nature to not be what it is in order to exist.
>>28711346
What I find the silliest about capitalism supporters is how it's always "OMG ARE YOU PLANNING ON THE STATE FORCING THE RICH TO GIVE THEIR SHIT TO THE POOR AT GUNPOINT?!?!?" yet they forget that the state is literally doing the exact same thing to the poor every single day in capitalism.
>>28711456
no it just requires purging those people before they are allowed to take power.
>>28711456
As you've indubitably seen in recent years, human nature is quite malleable, and by the same process of propaganda and social pressure that's used to create #blacklivesmatter retards and assorted SJWs, surely you could create decent human beings too.
>>28710040
Yep, the blacks being worthless is one of them.
>>28711230
>this wasn't in my text book
>i read i'd be sucking cocks not trading money
>>28711249
This guy already knows he's going to be sucking cocks in prison he's just discriminate about what color they are.
>>28711473
So either no sociopaths will ever be born ever again, or you need a 100% success rate in catching them. And you need to do that despite the fact that they will be the ones gravitating towards leadership positions in society.
>>28711501
again, requires a 100% success rate. Look at how many people here are contrarian just for the sake of it, despite all the social pressure pushing the opposite way. How do you hope to establish, run, and maintain your utopia when it depends on a total lack of people acting selfishly or in any way at cross purposes to you?
>>28710040
marx himself acknowledged that most of his ideas were retarded
>>28711573
>How do you hope to establish, run, and maintain your utopia when it depends on a total lack of people acting selfishly or in any way at cross purposes to you?
Just kill everyone who does either of those things. Problem solved.
Communism would only work if the entire world was commie
>>28711573
>How do you hope to establish, run, and maintain your utopia
You'll see in the next few years if you're not seeing it already. Except it might be a bit of a dystopia instead.
I don't believe that people are inherently shit. It's scary how they can be programmed to be shit, sure, but it's not something that has to be.
Btw, even if a country isn't a "perfect utopia", you'd be surprised how much more awesome an average person's life is when the mainstream ideology promotes decent values (and extols the virtues of the common man even just on paper!) and there's not just one single measure of success and worth as a human being.
>>28711679
and in doing so you will create resistance against you from within by people who find your bloodshedding repugnant, and resistance against you from outside by the people you kill - since when you kill people, they often try to fight back. You'll also create in your movement a hard core of sadists who revel in the violence and seek more of it for its own sake.
You'll succeed in nothing but starting an endless, unwinnable war.
In the 1960s, Yuri Bezmonev defected from the KGB and tried his best to convince Americans not to embrace Communism because he worked as a central figure in spreading commie propaganda in India. He clearly outlined how it's sold to young people through the media and academia because it establishing a relationship in the viewer's mind between Communism and fame, wealth, success, and intelligence. To ensure this correlation remains relevant, Communist media and academia practices an ideological nepotism wherein anyone aspiring to professional success will be shunned for patriotic, rational beliefs. These ideals don't hold any weight in STEM, so right now there is a campaign against merit in STEM. They monopolize the word "intellectual" as though their experience in misinterpreting current events and historical record are nourishing to the intellect.
The sad part of this is that this is becoming the majority belief system. I often feel like I'm living in a satirical black comedy where I'm the last human on earth capable of critical thought... Then I remember a lot of people agree. They just don't want to get blacklisted, muckraked, or harassed by bloodthirsty, infantile leftists.
https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=bX3EZCVj2XA
>>28711975
>someone actually believes this
fuck off and suck trump dick and eat shit
>>28710393
>It would stop people from envying the upper class and the upper class from shitting on the lower class
So you're literally admitting that you're a commie because you envy the rich
>GIBSMEDATS
>>28711753
Kill the sadists.
Kill the resistance.
>>28710159
All of Marx's key points about the evils of capitalism were already covered by the Bible and the Catholic and Orthodox Churches, and even Islam, which all condemned usury.
But Marx shoots himself in the foot by going after religion aggressively
>>28712008
That's some brilliant stuff senpai. Care to tell me how it's wrong?By the way, I'm voting Johnson, you Berncuck.
>>28710040
Actually, I think marx was mainly left
>>28712370
Why was this deleted? What the hell?
anyone intelligent and courageous enough to lead a revolution will lead their own personal revolution and become egoists. that is why successful communism doesn't exist, everyone who tries to lead it is/were/are/will be beta faggots who couldn't win on their own and had to use others to do it.
>>28712011
Not him but I feel envy towards the rich. Mostly because capitalism only really works for that class of people. That, and of course because, as a worker I feel entitled to the fruits of my labor rather than exploitation for profit.
>>28710040
has anyone here managed to read hegel
>>28714100
Don't bother, Hegel fucked everything up and opened the door for postmodern bullshit.
>>28711975
>A relatively low-ranking KGB man in India has access to top-secret information on subversion in the USA that somehow coincides perfectly with McCarthyist paranoia.
There's a good reason the CIA are dubious of what defectors have to say, and it's because they know that defectors know they can say the biggest load of bollocks about what communism is like and get paid handsomely for it.
Not to mention given that Gorbachev and Yeltsin fucked the USSR up from the inside with their liberal ideas it would seem like it was the USSR that truly got subverted.
>>28710559
Nietzsche isn't for robots, he is Chads.
The unwashed beta masses however can only benefit from communism.
>>28714127
>Don't bother, Hegel fucked everything up and opened the door for postmodern bullshit.
elaborate
>>28714170
>Nietzsche is for Chads.
chad is the highest member of the herd dumbass
