What are /r9k/'s thoughts on libertarianism and why is it the best philosophy and way of life? Economic illiterates and dumb statists need not apply.
The best? Aren't they all equal in the end?
>>28526915
>board full of neets that rely on welfare or other forms of social assistance
>libertarian
>>28526915
if only the easily impressionable cuck-children that infests this board didn't get brainwashed by the collectivist agenda forced by reddit/pol/ , we would be a successful libertarian group that would make libertarian meme magic real. We are wasting meme magic.
>supports capitalism
>lol i'm anti authority
wew
>>28527023
This. Tbh the real libertarians and the libsocs and anarchists
Individual > Society every time
Oh cute, a libertarian. You can spot them in their natural habitat- a non libertarian place.
Do you really think average people are smart enough to have a libertarian society?
Most societies are built up on getting rid of dumb stuff people did before.
Now really think it over if you think people are too dumb for some sort of libertarian utopia. Is your philosophy really the dumb thing for being so far out of reality.
>>28526915
It's a philosophy for children. If you think it is anything but pseudo-intellectual secular garbage, then you are philosophically illiterate.
You can't even provide an objective reason as to why violence is bad, resort to countless spooks, and then to memes like 'le cuck' and 'le statist'
Libertarians are still statists.
>>28526915
An ideology for corporatist shills that like the trappings of serfdom but with cubicles and tacky logos. Thankfully a fringe and hopefully dying movement in politics, especially American politics.
>>28526915
Libertarianism is possibly the most juvenile political ideology. It is nothing more than a meme. If you ever subscribe to an ideology when one of its chief scholars (Mises) had to invent a word to block it from any rational criticism (praxeology), you don't have a fully developed brain.
>>28526915
Also,
>fuck you statists!
You can't have private property and money without a state that provides protections for both you fucking mongoloid. You want to be libertarian? Go live in Honduras or Somalia, and see what happens when your beloved "producers" are given carte blanche to do whatever they want with the means of productions
>>28527004
"what's good for me" is not necessarily the same thing as "good way to run the country"
it is right and proper for the state to give no assistance to people like me that are lazy bastards who don't want to work.
>>28526915
It is pretty good, but after being on the internet for a long time I have developed a disdain for ideology in general. Libertarianism's individualism helps it avoid this better than most, however reddit-tier echo chambers and fedora tipping is still rampant among libertarians.
https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=3Ha4ea53UGI
I prefer genuine grass roots movements, emphasis on "genuine" because there are many posers out there.
>>28526915
libertarians are the only ones I hear insulting other people's economic knowledge, some kind of projection or something
>>28527009
/r9facebook/ is full of fucking normies now faggot.
/pol/ is one of the last """"""""""good"""""""""" boards left in this shithole.
>>28526915
It's nice, but a bit idealistic.
Also fucking impossible if you're going to have a population with any race other than Whites.
>>28526915
What, got btfo on /pol/ and decided to post about your dumb political views here?
>>28526915
How do I stop being economically illiterate? I like the idea of helping people when they are down on their luck, as well as universal healthcare and other forms of public spending.
>>28528522
The only way socialism like that works is if you have a small, well educated and high trust society. It worked well enough for the Nordic countries then, but is falling apart now.
>>28528353
Whites account for most of the welfare in the country so your statement is flawed. If a Libertarian society existed, all people, regardless of race, that use welfare, would have to change or be left behind. /pol/lacks ,presumably you, all ways make it a race problem when it isn't.
>>28526915
Nationalist here. I oppose Libertarianism on principle.
>>28528522
>How do I stop being economically illiterate?
1.)Recognize that it isn't hurting anyone else to try and make a profit. Every transaction is a two-way street - if both parties don't wind up better off than they were before, no transaction takes place.
2.) Recognize that there is no inherent value in labor. Labor is a commodity like any other, and is only worth what someone is willing to pay for it.
3.) Recognize that prices are a signalling mechanism. If something is scarce, the price goes up, and that encourages people and businesses to use less of it.
4.) Recognize that prices also are not just a measure of how much money some greedy CEO wants to make today. If a company raises prices unilaterally, market competition means that they'll lose customers to other companies that charge less.
5.) Recognize that the phrase "taxation is theft", though it is a meme, is also true. It's the government using the threat of force to take money from people. We allow it because we have no other way to provide for public goods, but given that it is "give me your money, or else", we should use the minimum amount of it possible.
6.) Related to number 5.), recognize that taxes distort the economy. People and businesses will make choice that they otherwise wouldn't because they're avoiding taxes. (e.g., a business issues bonds because of the favorable tax treatment of interest instead of paying for an expense from retained earnings, or a person buys a house instead of stock because of the mortgage-interest tax break) That reduces the power of markets to allocate resources well.
>>28526915
Anarcho-capitalism is objectively the best political philosophy.
>>28529273
Anarcho-capitalism is a Frankenstein monster of an ideology with no serious works to back it. Both anarchist and even free market types like Hayek would be rolling in their graves at the thought of anyone taking it seriously.
>>28529273
>natural law
The dumbest meme people take seriously. Never mind when people conflate it with property. The universe doesn't do checks and balances if two people decide to beat you over the head with a rock for 'your' pile of land. The land doesn't revolt at this gross 'injustice'.
>>28528974
>4.) Recognize that prices also are not just a measure of how much money some greedy CEO wants to make today. If a company raises prices unilaterally, market competition means that they'll lose customers to other companies that charge less.
You are forgetting that in a capitalist society long standing nepotist companies acumulate so much wealth that they are no longer fair to their competition (look: Nvidia paying video game developers so that their games aren't optimized for ATI) and acquire virtual monopoly. This is very unhealthy for the economy and general poblic, as it hinders social mobility (no promotions within the company), developing businesses (they gonna get stomped, often illegitimately) and hurts the customer, who now has much less choice in terms of what the company offers and is basically forced to accept any of their policies.
>>28529443
Don't worry, the FREEEEEE MAAARRRRKEEEEEEEEEEET will surely fix it. The FREEEEEE MAAAARRRRKEEEEEEEEEET fixes everything!
>>28529443
>it hinders social mobility (no promotions within the company)
Employees are free to go to a different company in search of a better deal.
>developing businesses (they gonna get stomped, often illegitimately)
Google was two guys in a garage. They took on established giants of that era like Altavista, Lycos, and Hotbot and stomped them instead of getting stomped. Myspace was a thing. Then some guy in a dorm room started Facebook and killed it in a couple of years.
>>28529525
It literally does, if you don't pile a bunch of regulations onto an industry. Heavy regulation favors big incumbents, because they have the infrastructure needed to comply with them and lobby for favorable rules, which makes it hard for other businesses to come in and compete with them.
>>28529525
This is another issue I take with libertarians. They accuse all other ideologies of worshipping the state like a god and then they turn around and treat something like the free market which is a human invention as well I may add as some inscrutable, benign higher power that must never be questioned in its infinite wisdom lest it reign disaster on all our collective heads. Any failure on its part being ascribed to it as a no true Scotsman affair or eerily religious cop out of it working in mysterious ways.
>>28529596
For a state to be benevolent, the people that lead it must be benevolent. The market demands no such altruism from its participants. It's a method for allocating scarce resources based on the priorities of said participants, and it does that better than any central planner can, because it doesn't depend on anything other than people acting in their own self-interest.
It's also a good thing in the abstract. If there's a fundamental tenet to libertarianism, its that people should be free to do what they want to the greatest possible extent. Which is usually defined mostly as "so long as you don't hurt anyone else". And if I'm not hurting anyone else, why should society, or their designated enforcers, the government, tell me what I can and can't say or do?
>>28529590
>established giants of that era like Altavista, Lycos, and Hotbot
>comparing the stone ages of Internet searches with actual established, well-connected business that require huge technology and infrastructure development
Whatever it takes to prop up your religious beliefs, anon.
>>28529590
>Employees are free to go to a different company in search of a better deal.
But what if there is no better deal, because they made sure that there isn't one? The glorious free market will only encourage monopoly and nepotism and the average everyman is left with their hand tied - he can't start his own company at this point of economical advancement and he can't go to a different one, because there isn't a better option. In my opinion the best way to facilitate that is to introduce free market, cut taxation, most regulations yadda yadda, but introduce one thing in their place - a hard cap on a company's total worth/revenue that would stop it from expanding after reaching a certain point, allowing each aspect of the market to consist of numerous companies that participate in healthy competition.
>>28529723
>he can't start his own company at this point of economical advancement
People literally do all the time. I can think of a half dozen restaurants within a couple of miles of me that are family-owned places. There are whole websites for freelancers in all sorts of areas.
>he can't go to a different one, because there isn't a better option
Conspiracies are hard to maintain, and the larger they are, the more impossible it gets. If you can't get a better offer, the more likely explanation is that you just aren't worth more than what you're already making, not that there's some shadowy cabal conspiring to keep you down. Market competition operates on workers as well as companies. Make yourself more competitive in the labor market - better skills, more experience, certifications, a degree, moving to a different place - and you'll be able to get a better deal. It was ever thus.
>>28529790
No matter my skills or whatnot, I will never be more competitive than my boss' niece/drinking buddy/cockgobbler.
>>28529525
REEEEEEEEEEEEEE DONT TREEED ON MEEE
>>28526915
> Let's discuss my ideology but also people who have disagreements about it shouldn't contribute
How's that echo chamber going for ya, bud?
>>28529699
>so long as I don't hurt anyone else
>in my best interest
The injecture upon which the whole house of cards comes crumbling down. Profit seeking can hurt others, humans are not omniscient and wholly rational actors and even blatant misinformation in the form of advertising or poor research can irrevocably fuck even the best informed people over. Like I said the entire crux of libertarianism requires seeing the free market as a god that can do no wrong and excusing any flaw in it as caused by human action when human action is the entirety of its fabric. And let's not even get into how short term profit seeking can be excused within this system to create long lasting damage as a 'rational' human being as defined by libertarians shouldn't care about the Earth that exist after they die. Hell some of the more ideologically 'pure' branches fail to take issue with the selling of children so long as they are yours.
>>28529828
>mad that boss would rather pay his family or mistress than him
>not realizing if he had actual profitable skills boss would be a retard NOT to hire him or give a raise
>not realizing that if he had actual profitable skills and the boss was only hiring non productive family members/friends he could create his own more successful business or work for a competitor and outcompete and get a raise
oh wait you DON'T have skills and don't want to learn any so you perfer using violence to get subsidies right
>>28529699
>The market demands no such altruism from its participant
Sure it does, it demands that all participants be exceptionally well-informed and extremely principled in all their purchases, because that's the only controlling mechanism a free market has. Which sounds nice until you remember that people are flawed and lazy, unable to access all information at all times, and sometimes just make the wrong choice. If people make bad choices regularly, and they definitely do, the system is heading for catastrophe.
What always amazes me about libertarians is that they're very quick to call other forms of economics over-idealistic, but the free market is the most idealized form for economics that's ever existed. It demands that all people in the system behave well but provides no mechanisms for correcting people or preventing abuses, and also just hopes that the system of supply and demand will always deliver the desirable result, rather than the simplest one, no matter who it hurts.
What people forget about regulations is that, usually, they come out of abuses of a free market where there weren't rules and an unfavorable outcome resulted. For instance, fire code for buildings. "Why should the government tell you how to build a building?" the libertarian might ask. Fire code exists for a lot of reasons, but one of the most public sparks for it in the US was an incident where the owner of a laundromat in the 1800s (these were basically factories at the time) started locking the doors of the laundromat from the outside because his workers, mostly women, kept leaving to talk to their friends or run errands. Well, a fire broke out in there one day, and everyone died because nobody could find the owner to unlock the doors until too late. In the aftermath, laws were passed that said there must always be an unlocked egress on a building. Further laws were added later when more dangers became apparent.
That's basically the genesis of all regulations.
>>28529790
>>28529828
Have this randroid not heard of "networking" when going job hunting? Nepotism is very much a real thing in the real world.
Make me think libertardians have never been in a workplace...
>>28529898
>muh humans are inherently incapable of self control meme
>muh so let's give an extremely small group of those SAME people power over everyone else and they will magically be able to govern them more effectively
>>28529897
>violence
Do you need a high-pressure jet of water to the vagina to cure your hysteria?
>>28529854
Honestly, this thread seems to pop up every few days. Exact wording and all.
Is /pol/ recruiting in /r9k/? Is OP such an amazing captain of industry that /r9k/ is the only place to brag about it?
>>28529917
Libertarians pretty much always view the guy next up on the corporate ladder as their lord they despise their coworkers. CEOs to them are godkings unless they say something hostile to their dogma.
>>28529958
>hurr I'm so insecure in my own worthlessness that I want to violently force millions of people to do what I WANT BECAUSE I CAN'T LEARN HOW TO BE VALUABLE
>ANYONE WHO CALLS ME OUT ON IT IS HYSTERICAL
>>28527945
Stirner pls, go back to your coffee shop.
>>28529953
>muh
Truly the last refuge of the scoundrel. Clearly people burning to death is a statist conspiracy.
>>28529993
>>28529953
Behold the libertarian as he truly is.
>>28530000
>not realizing people can choose to work or not in possibly dangerous environments
>not realizing that if an employer repeatedly put his employees in hazardous situations they would leave to work for his competitor that provided safe environments if they value their safety
>>28529898
I'm sure the FREE MARKET would have done... something... about fire trap buildings.
Kinda like how the FREE MARKET punished China for all that lead paint and poor quality in what they make, yup!
>>28529993
Don't you mean,
>AM I BEING DETAINED!!!!!
>>28529999
Prime opportunity to say milk shop, but you blew it.
>>28530025
Supposing that happens at all how many people need to die or go poor before such a change occurs? For such a perfect system it certainly seems to take its time in creating safe work conditions and products with no outside influence. Or is this gross negligence considered doing no harm to the people involved?
Is this really how libertarians go shopping?
Do they google up all the facts about the company that makes the crap they're about to buy?
Look up the CEO on Wikipedia, meticulously analyze his bio to see if he is worthy of receiving the libertarians' precious money?
This is why the rest of the world thinks you're so autistic libertarians
>>28529898
>muh fire code
Most government spending has nothing to do with things like feeding the homeless or public safety. It wouldn't be the first thing we challenged while we pour trillions into meme spending, chances are we wouldn't bother at all.
Only an insignificant minority of "ancaps" ever considered going that far, even in the abstract, public safety is compatible with libertarian principles. If someone starts a fire and it spread and damages someone else's property, they have violated their property rights.
I grew out of it around age 19
>>28530158
Sounds like you're sifting into no true Scotsman territory. Funny how you brush over the loss of human life not to mention the bulk of his argument with yet another >muh. Also Rand herself said she respected Marxist more than libertarians.
>>28530123
Property laws > anything else in Libertopia.
Also, employees are the employer's property in Libertopia
>>28530349
Anon, they aren't property laws, they're property states-of-nature. Don't even entertain the thought that property is a social construct that libertarians arbitrarily worship.
>>28528826
Whites also make up the vast majority of the population so I guess that's kind of a given you fucking idiot.
>>28528826
also in most statistics, "white" usually includes hispanics, so if you control for hispanics, "white" people probably don't make up that much of welfare recipients
