I just finished reading Elliot Roger's entire 141-page autobiography and I can't help but think that his feelings were (in some sense) rational. His solution obviously wasn't rational since it wasn't effective at fixing his problem and was therefore objectively irrational. But the autobiography is strangely lucid. He doesn't seem like a deranged lunatic. He seems like a kid on the spectrum that was crazy narcissistic (probably from his mother's constant babying) and the victim of a failed marriage and a shit family/social life that led to extended isolation. Not very smart, either, but not like seriously retarded.
He may have severely misinterpreted the problem but I believe the problem did and still does exist. I won't come out and say what I think it is because I don't want to influence anyone. So here is my question: what was the problem that drove Elliot to do what he did, and do you think another person in his situation/circumstances would act similarly?
pic related: Elliot the vanilla raider
Lol that was the epic engineering gun that was super expensive.
It's shit.
cue the summer to come in and tell everyone that they are sick in the head and belong in an asylum
>>28376956
yeah well this is what i had a picture of and i was too lazy to google something else. so there.
>>28377026
I'm just saying Elliot's hunter was shit. Shit.
>>28376918
I wouldn't say that his feelings were rational. It's clear he suffered from narcissistic personality disorder, believing he was superior to others thus being unable to stand the sight of men he deemed inferior with attractive girlfriends. By his logic, something was wrong with women for not approaching him, never stopping to consider whether there was something wrong with him, believing himself to be flawless and magnificent (magnificent he was).
Aside from that, he did acknowledge several legitimate problems with women's decadence though I doubt any of these played primary roles in driving him to the retribution.
>he played hunter
Just like that, all my respect for him is fucking gone
>>28377354
Hunter was king of Alterac valley, noob.
You must be a salty ass rogue or clothie.
>>28377089
so autism + narcissism = shooting spree
that sounds about right
You now realize that Elliot was a shit casual during vanilla wow.
The kind of casual who couldn't even raid molten core or even do stratholme live or undead for a better how or gun than that engineering meme gun.
Hell even the AV quest crossbow is better.
Opinions on my new mix in tribute to Elliot?
https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=5L4k70ok-rk
>>28376918
i think his manifesto should be required reading. hopefully someday, our saviors memoir will be taught in schools and colleges everywhere.
>>28376918
Elliot was a dork. He had a great car, loadsa money, top quality clothes and a nice house yet he still remained a loser.
Destiny.
>>28376918
Haven't read it in full so can't jump to respond OP but from what I have seen he quotes Attack of the fucking Clones too much for me to immediately agree with you.
Breivik on the other hand.
You now realize that Elliot spent all night camping stranglethorn jungle because he got absolutely trashed in battlegrounds with other 60's.
You now realize it's possible Elliot wasn't even 60.
>>28377910
I guess that's why I feel bad for him since I can relate (minus the loads of money part)
>>28377938
Breivik was something special. The most sensational news story that I have ever been a witness to.
>bombing in Norway of all places
oh shit
>massacre on summer camp Island
oh fuck
>bombing was a distraction
holy moly
>it's a lone wolf
good golly
>it's not taliban
my God
>it's a white Norwegian against Islam
Mother of mercy
>>28377354
>Hating hunters
Get fucked cunt, current WoW is barren, how the fuck do I make PvE fun otherwise?
>>28377086
Is his character name known?
>tfw you may have played vidya with Elliot
>>28378169
I'm not sure what you mean Elliot played WoW as Valtharion.
>>28379539
*but Elliot played
>>28379539
And his mmochampion account was RamsayBolton or something? He might have had an in-game character named that as well me thinks.
>>28376918
>He may have severely misinterpreted the problem
>may
>>28378003
He also had patrician taste in games
After having listened to Rodger's autobiography, I can't help but think that those who blame Elliot's frustration on the fact he didn't approach women are correct. However, the way this blame is usually expressed largely misses the point.
Men are expected to approach women, Fair or unfair, it is what it is. However, no man ever approaches a woman without some sort of invitation. Now, I grant you, that invitation is usually a subtle one. It is an invitation extended by the hint of interest one may find when one meet's a woman's gaze.
A man who glimpses disgust in a woman's eyes would be mad to approach her. His attentions would be construed as annoying at best and assault at worst. And I believe Elliot understood this.
However, it seems quite clear that Rodger fell along the spectrum, and one of the characteristics of autism is an inability to pick upon on the more subtle ways people communicate. Even if a woman had looked at him with something like attraction, he likely would not have recognized it. Not having witnessed such an invitation from a woman, it is no surprise he never approached one.
I think it was this, rather than the narcissism usually attributed to him, that made Rodger desperate for a woman to approach him. He, like all men, felt a need for that invitation. He wanted a woman to want him. Lamentably for Rodger, he would have been capable of recognizing only the bluntest and explicit of invitations. Although women sometimes extend that type of welcome, it is relatively rare.
Had Elliot been born with the ability to participate in these subtle interactions like the vast majority of humans, he probably would have had the opportunity to live like one.
>>28382009
>I think it was this, rather than the narcissism usually attributed to him, that made Rodger desperate for a woman to approach him. He, like all men, felt a need for that invitation. He wanted a woman to want him. Lamentably for Rodger, he would have been capable of recognizing only the bluntest and explicit of invitations. Although women sometimes extend that type of welcome, it is relatively rare.
Congratulations, you've just figured out autism
>>28382078
>Congratulations, you've just figured out autism
Not figured it out, of course, just recognized it:
>>28382009
>However, it seems quite clear that Rodger fell along the spectrum, and one of the characteristics of autism is an inability to pick upon on the more subtle ways people communicate.
Recognizing it in this case is no great feat, I admit. However, this particular dynamic is strangely ignored when discussing Rodger. There are cries of "entitlement", "misogyny". "Narcissist" inevitably follows close behind.
Which is of course, missing the point. That I haven't in this case wouldn't be worthy of remark, were it not for the fact so many others have.
>>28382207
>However, this particular dynamic is strangely ignored when discussing Rodger. There are cries of "entitlement", "misogyny". "Narcissist" inevitably follows close behind.
This is a good thing. If Rodge was called "The Autist Killer" instead of "The Virgin Killer" I wouldn't dare to go to college anymore.
>>28382264
>This is a good thing. If Rodge was called "The Autist Killer" instead of "The Virgin Killer" I wouldn't dare to go to college anymore.
I myself would have preferred the former. The way the story was sold in the media, it was Rodger's frustration over his virginity that served as the root of his criminality rather than any sort of psychiatric issue. The older virgin became a boogeyman, an incarnation of every woman's anxiety over the "creepy" guy whose attentions she finds so distasteful.
So, again, I have to admit I'd have preferred "The Autistic Killer". I suppose that's a bit of selfishness on my own part. But what can I say? One's loyalty invariably lies with one's own tribe.
>>28382009
You know what else? He specifically wanted a beautiful 8/10 or higher blonde California girl to come up and approach him.
Women that attractive have men after them all day, every day. They probably can't even walk down the street, get groceries, or pump gas without a guy hitting on them. Beautiful women have constant male attention and have men pursuing them all the time, so they never need to approach anyone to get a top-quality guy. So no girl would ever approach Elliot, she's bombarded by men wanting to date her all the time so much that she'd probably never ask a guy out herself. Even if she found him attractive, he would still just be one person in a huge sea of men lining up to date her.
It's still kind of weird to think that he was so hurt by women not dating him, but never even asked a single one out.
the most dangerous person is the one who can rationalize their anger logically, because that provides a call to action and motivation
>>28382602
>It's still kind of weird to think that he was so hurt by women not dating him, but never even asked a single one out.
Well, again, I think what he was hurt by was far simpler. I think he was hurt by the belief women didn't want him. And this is a very painful thing, to be sure. However, even had a woman desired him, I don't think he would not have been able to perceive that desire given the subtle ways women typically express their interest.
>He specifically wanted a beautiful 8/10 or higher blonde California girl to come up and approach him.
I've always found this aspect of Rodger's story particularly interesting. However, I think he over-estimated the significance of his own preferences. Consequently, so do those reading him.
Had a woman actually desired him, and said woman happened to have brown hair, or black, I wouldn't be terribly surprised if he would have dated that woman. However, given the fact that he felt no woman wanted him, he was never given the chance to compromise his ideal.
>>28382543
People always think I've had sex many times. My sperg diagnoses is pretty well known though.
You can see where my preference comes from.
>>28382870
>You can see where my preference comes from.
Sure, and I don't begrudge you that. Both of our groups could claim Elliot, and it's little surprise neither wants to make that claim. No one wants to be branded a criminal by virtue of his tribe. In this case, my gang lost. It happens, I suppose. Although, it's bad enough that Nature considers us monsters; I would have preferred not to be considered a potential criminal by my fellow man. Horror upon horror's head, I guess. A miserable old wizard like myself should be accustomed to that by now, I suppose.
All of that aside for a moment, what do you make of my armchair notion about the inability of those who fall along the spectrum finding it difficult to recognize female interest?
A dark comedy based on Elliot's life as shown through his manifesto would be incredible
Like no focus on the murders at all beyond a text tagline at the very end would even be necessary
>>28383019
>what do you make of my armchair notion about the inability of those who fall along the spectrum finding it difficult to recognize female interest?
Well obviously it's spot on.
As an autist I have never in my 22 years of existence seen a female acknowledge me in a sexual way. I know for a fact this is a mathematical impossibility. Im not even ugly! :^)
>>28382753
I think it was the unique cocktail of narcissism and autism.
A mere autist would have just given up and gone about his business, accepting and probably understanding that they aren't desirable.
A mere narcissist wouldn't have had problems with girls anyway since narcissists ooze confidence and that's very charismatic and attractive.
But autism and narcissism together create a person who 1. feels they are entitled to relationships/sex on account of them being the best ever but 2. is almost completely incapable of forming relationships/getting sex
which is just a disaster waiting to happen. and it was the perfect storm, too. immigrant mothers spoil the shit out of their boys (i should know, i have one) AND they were rich too which meant he probably didn't heard the word NO until he was post-puberty
>>28383171
Spot on. Besides that, his autism was never properly diagnosed, only suggested according to his dad.
>>28383145
>As an autist I have never in my 22 years of existence seen a female acknowledge me in a sexual way.
Well, neither have I. The difference is that I have intuited their unequivocal disgust and have no difficulty perceiving it, even if it's communicated with nothing more than a revulsion-laden glance.
However, as you fall on the spectrum, I'm guessing you've never perceived either attraction or disgust.
>I know for a fact this is a mathematical impossibility. Im not even ugly! :^)
Well, it's improbable to be sure. Most men are desired by some woman at some point. Now, some sympathy for the devil your speaking to, though. Not being desired is far from impossible; men like me serve as testaments to that fact.
>>28383171
>A mere autist would have just given up and gone about his business, accepting and probably understanding that they aren't desirable.
This is an interesting point. My only problem with accepting Elliot as narcissist is that so much of his biography was self-deprecating. Yes, he titled himself a "supreme gentleman" by the end, but in so many other places he displayed far more honest. He considered himself weak, undesirable, and so on. It seems the more grandiose claims were defense mechanisms rather than authentic self-assessments.
However, your point is still very well taken. Although I refuse to "accept" the fact women find my undesirable (in the sense I have reconciled myself to this truth), I understand it is my reality. However, that is a very difficult thing to accept. It's accepting that the pain never goes away, that one is undesirable in a way few men are.
Having said all that, for all the anger these hurts have fostered, I'm not a criminal. So perhaps there was yet another element that contributed to Elliot. He felt the anger like someone myself does, and yet gave into it while I have not.
What, I wonder, would that element be?
Why is this even a discussion? He wasnt actually attractive, nor was he actually wealthy, nor was he charming or charismatic etc, etc. He says he's these things. He believes that he is; but he is mistaken.
The fatal flaw is that he could not see past his own delusion. If he were objectively a 10/10 with money, power, and influence then; yeah. But he wasnt so its like whatever man.
>>28383411
>I'm guessing you've never perceived either attraction or disgust.
Correct, as if I don't exist. I am by no means Brad Pitt but far uglier people have gotten laid so I must have missed something. I don't really mind though, I wouldn't date myself either.
To be fair I have never tried to ask girls out, just like Elliot. I can't put myself in a position were I can be ridiculed or rejected. I feel like it will haunt me forever if that would happen.
tl;dr I am basically Elliot with self awareness
>>28383551
He was objectively wealthy
I find the part interesting when Elliot pointed out in the manifesto how people's sex drives differ. For example, he pointed out that he madly craved women while his best friend (I forget his name) didn't seem to care much at all about his own khv status.
Is relevant to my own situation... arriving at college at 18 and being surrounded by beautiful women while being too autistic to get any of them fucking destroyed me...I developed severe depression because of this. But there are many people who seem to cope fine with being khv well into their 20s. I always found this so peculiar and unfair.
>>28383560
>To be fair I have never tried to ask girls out, just like Elliot.
Well, if you are incapable of perceiving those subtle hints of interest, assuming they exist, that makes a great deal of sense, after all. A man who goes where he hasn't been invited is mad to do so.
>>28383673
>But there are many people who seem to cope fine with being khv well into their 20s. I always found this so peculiar and unfair.
Well, they may proclaim themselves to be fine with it. Although James (that was Elliot's friend who was also a virgin in his twenties) certainly coped with is virginity better than Elliot (as proven by the fact that he didn't indulge in mass murder), it is by no means guaranteed he felt any less pain than Elliot did. It is entirely possible he was better at restraining himself. James may have hurt just as much as Elliot did, or perhaps even more, but simply felt ashamed about gushing about it for all to hear.
My closest (and only remaining) friend is aware of the fact that I'm an old wizard. However, he doesn't realize that it bothers me, precisely because I've never communicated how much it hurts, and what a miserable kind of life it is. After all, hearing a friend pour his heart out endlessly becomes a very tedious friend, and I can't afford to lose the one friend I have left to me.
And so the virgin with a modicum of self-preservation chains his spirit, does what ever he must to keep it tame. Otherwise others will recognize that spirit for the demonic thing it is. Yes, the wizard may belong to the devil. However, if one is to survive, one must not draw the attention of the inquisitors who would seek to exorcise him.
Elliot lacked that sense of self-preservation. After all, when all was said and done, he sentenced himself to death.
>>28383411
>I am not part of the human race. Humanity has rejected me. The females of the human species have never wanted to mate with me, so how could I possibly consider myself part of humanity? Humanity has never accepted me among them, and now I know why. I am more than human. I am superior to them all. I am Elliot Rodger... Magnificent, glorious, supreme, eminent... Divine! I am the closest thing there is to a living god. Humanity is a disgusting, depraved, and evil species. It is my purpose to punish them all. I will purify the world of everything that is wrong with it. On the Day of Retribution, I will truly be a powerful god, punishing everyone I deem to be impure and depraved.
page 135.
this really sealed me on the narcissism argument. this kind of shit is clearly the stubborn out-of-touch rationalization of a narcissist who is experiencing extreme cognitive dissonance.
>>28383872
You sound like a cool guy. I have the feeling we've talked before.
If it is any solace, I think you are much more interesting than Chad. Unfortunately Im not a girl though :(
>>28383959
>cognitive dissonance
To be fair, he kinda delivered on the god part. After all, he decided that people had to pay and 6 people died as a result.
>>28376918
I just finished reading Ted Kaczynski's entire 34-page manifesto and I can't help but think that his feelings were (in some sense) rational. His solution obviously wasn't rational since it wasn't effective at fixing his problem and was therefore objectively irrational. But the manifesto is strangely lucid. He doesn't seem like a deranged lunatic. He seems like a kid on the spectrum that was crazy antisocial (probably from his government's constant mind control) and the victim of a school environment and a shit social life that led to extended isolation. Very smart, too, like seriously gifted.
He may have severely misinterpreted the problem but I believe the problem did and still does exist. I won't come out and say what I think it is because I don't want to influence anyone. So here is my question: what was the problem that drove Unabomber to do what he did, and do you think another person in his situation/circumstances would act similarly?
pic related: Ted the strawberry exploder
>>28383959
>this really sealed me on the narcissism argument.
Well, that's what sold the vast majority of people on the narcissism argument, and I fully understand why. However, I'm still reluctant to accept that argument without a great deal of skepticism. The reason being that in the same document Elliot expressed no small amount of self-loathing. Time and time again he enumerated his faults, lamented his self-perceived inferiority and so on. So I don't think it was so much an attempt to reconcile his elevated sense of self-worth with his lowly position, but rather an attempt to assuage his own pain. He hated himself, but self-hatred is a very difficult thing to deal with. You can hide, at least to some extent, from the criticism of others. You can only protect yourself from your own criticisms by lying to yourself.
>>28383965
Well, thank you. We probably have spoken before. I haunt these sorts of threads, and for very good reason. I have to exist in society, and so can't make my feelings public. And yet, a man in my position has to express his hurt somehow.
As for being more interesting than Chad, I have no doubt there are a multitude of Chads far more interesting than I could ever pray to be (even if a man like me praying could ever do any good). However, the significant distinction isn't between Chad and wizard, but between normal human being and wizard. One doesn't have to be Chad to live as normal human beings live, to experience sexual affection.
A Chad is a rare example of humanity, to be sure. And yet so is the wizard. Between the two extremes are the vast majority of men. And yes, these men may resent the fact that they are not angels. However, they can celebrate the fact that they will never be a devil.
