Is meditation pointless bullshit or does it actually accomplish something?
Chucklecunts like the bitch you posted do meditation for 'SO SPIRITUAL LIKE LOOK AT ME HAHA' type attention.
Otherwise, yes, it's a great practice when you strip away the woo.
>>28360378
Typically the people in my life who tend to meditate also tend to be fucking retarded.
>>28360378
>Hurry up and take the picture. My knees are about to explode.
not sure, I will just play video game
Ego death and arupajhana
Although OP you sound too close minded for it why don't you drink some alcohol or something
>>28360378
Meditation will free you from the compulsive need to accomplish something.
>>28360419
Pretty much this. So many people are all about yoga and meditation but making sure that everybody and their mother sees them doing it via Facebook or Instagram
I'm naturally skeptical about this type of shit that's usually co-opted by "spiritual" nuts but honestly it works. Whether it's placebo or not, I don't think you can really deny that taking some time to concentrate on yourself and try to get rid of nagging bad thoughts is beneficial. It's good for the part of depression where you just feel like you're in a fog. Look up Jon Kabat-Zinn guided meditation on youtube.
>>28360378
Her foot looks like a dick when you enlarge the pic
>>28360451
kek, way too fucking accurate
>>28360378
From 3 of my meditation attempts, 1 was extremely successful and I lost the stacked up stress and anger. You just need the right technic
>>28360451
How fat are you? I can sit like that for over an hour, no problem.
>>28360567
Kek, kind of.
>>28360451
I can sit like that with no strain, I've been able to do it since elementary school. People would always call me weird but to me it's weird that most people are so inflexible that they can't do it.
I've been doing it on and off for a few years. it's been a great help, my mind is much friendlier to itself and to other people. I'm far less bitter and angry. Life just doesn't feel as heavy, even though materially I'm not accomplished
>>28360378
It works, especially better than prayer. I try to avoid the mystical orient meme but it's seriously mysterious how they figured out meditation
>>28360713
>it's seriously mysterious how they figured out meditation
It's just taking time out of your day to relax and think, I'd be more surprised if nobody discovered it at all.
>>28360620
I'm pretty damn skinny with long limbs.
>>28360497
damn
this man gets it
>>28360762
and think? no. it's not the same as relaxation although it is relaxing.
>>28360378
check out what jiddu krisnamurti has to say on the subject
and you'll get what is bullshit and what is not pretty fucking fast
>>28360378
It does accomplish something if you do it right.
First, there is no need to sit a special way. Sit straight upward in a comfy position that you can maintain for a while without getting sore. No need to cross your legs or hold your arms a special way. I just put my hands in my lap.
The goal is to clear your mind of all thought. Just stop fucking thinking completely. When you feel a thought coming on, you have to realize that the thought is there and then suppress it. To suppress the thought, you simply let it pass---do not engage it. This is very hard at first but it is a skill and you will get better at it eventually. Make yourself an observer of your own mind. Youll find that your thoughts and the workings of your brain are not really "you", but rather, "you" exist on a separate, higher level.
By the way, whats the point? Well, if you can clear your mind of thoughts, then in that moment you are not stressing, you are not worrying, and you are not self-hating. You just are. Its very pleasing and can make your life much better. Think of it as the ultimate escape---an escape from yourself.
Godspeed anon. You wont be good at meditating right away but youll learn fast.
>>28360378
It's the white word for chill to be quite honest.
>>28360378
It helps you relax. You don't transcend to some cosmic plane you just concentrate so much on your breathing on movements that everything else gets forgotten.
You don't have to do yoga. Any kind of hobby gets the same affect. I clean my guns for ab hour or so and I feel much better.
>>28360567
>kek
>>28360620
>>28360647
Fat people, not even obese but fat, can't do that at all, and cannot even sit with legs crossed (like an Indian) for very long as it is, without our knees either hurting, or if you're really fat, your legs go numb inside of five minutes.Speaking from experience; I used to not be able to stand sitting crossed legged at 270ish, and now that I'm 220ish, I sit for hours on my bed crossed legged, but have never been skinny, so I have never been able to do that bullshit style.
It does. Think of it as a form of self hypnosis. You can use it to repeatedly drive behaviors into or out of your subconscious.
Kind of embarrassing but I used to be a slob. Then when the 2012 thing was nearing, I bought into the end of the world shit on some level. Thought something *might* happen so I started meditating to get rid of undesirable "darkness" from myself. over the course of I don't know how long I went from a slob to a neat freak to a germophobe. Now I'm that asshole who cringes at people for being even slightly untidy.
>>28360378
Meditation is concentrating on the now, learning to ignore disruptive thoughts. The practice helps you learn to ignore thoughts you don't want to think (at that moment), and to focus on what's in front of you. It's pretty reasonable. Any spiritual parts are bullshit, but they're easy to ignore.
>>28360497
Exactly.
It will free you from the compulsion to live off in fantasy land with your thoughts and ego.
It will free you from the need to be somebody.
I haven't had my quiet time yet today, thanks for the reminder anon.
>>28362536
Most people can not do that. When they meditate they have thoughts and ego. I can displace ego, but only thoughts for awhile I usually end up dreaming.
>>28360603
You also need a lot of repetition and a lot of patience. I have been meditating off and on for 11 years.
>1-4 = Do I just sit quietly? Do I used guided meditation? This is boring. Is something supposed to happen.
>End of year 4 = have an experience when I am out and about, holy shit I can do really complex things, I can talk to people, with out a thought in my head and it just flows, it is the easiest thing ever
>5-10 = Practice not trying just doing while seated and while doing things, get so good I can do it on command for certain tasks
>11 = Spontaneously start doing it with my senses, feels like all the sensory enhancement of cannabis but with a completely clear and quiet mind. Few months later realize I have just replaced the trance of thoughts with a trance of senses, the next step is to practice existing with out going into trance. Start practicing this and find even more peace. Somehow this gets linked to my breathing and whenever I notice my breathing throughout the day my mind instantly becomes tranquil and I see my thoughts for the illusions they are.
tl:dr The first step of finding the feeling of having your mind quiet with out trying to have it quiet, aka doing with out trying is the most difficult step. Once you get good at that the next step is easier to achieve. And so on. You have to believe in every little moment of peace your practice gives to you.
>>28361328
Sometimes if I sit cross legged I get like nerve damage that goes from my hip to my foot that can last for days. Sometimes if I run for a bit it fixes it.
>>28362617
It takes a lot of practice. And I think it takes being generally fed up with being compelled by your inner process.
I think it also takes as genuine desire to let all that shit go, to see the falseness of it all.
When I started I did meditation to take a break, which is to say I still saw value in all my thoughts and notions. I to have a mental breakdown after following all those thoughts and notions to really understand it was bad for me to follow them blindly.
Take anger. I used to delight in getting righteously pissed at things, it made me feel energetic and powerful. Then shortly after I burnt out I found myself thinking about something that had happened in the recent past that pissed me off. And for whatever reason I decided to be present for being pissed off, and it really became apparent to me how much agony being angry is. I mean it hurts your body! And at the time I was alone in my room, the situation was past. Here I was in agony by my own choosing!
From that point on I stopped looking at anger as something of value. Instead it was a self-damaging decision being made to follow an arbitrary image in my mind for emotional masturbation.
Once that pillar fell I started questioning all the other mental images I bought into. It's like the red pill stuff, once you recognize the way women have tried to manipulate you in your own life, you stop being able to view them as paragons of innocence. Which isn't to say they are bad, they just aren't what you thought they are.
>>28360378
If you lead a very stressful life, taking time to sit and not think about anything is probably a good thing.
stress is unhealthy.
I don't understand how it is possible. It just seems impossible for me to "empty my mind". Thoughts are racing 24/7 and I can't not think, there's always something.
>>28363182
Are you a virgin? if not you might not be a gnostic sinner
>>28360378
My friend's aunt fell into a coma for 6 months because she didn't wake up from one of her meditation sessions. It's like she stayed in some trance shit and couldn't get out
>>28363233
That is fcking sick dude tell me how I can induce a meditation coma
>>28363111
To expand on that last point on the red pill stuff.
Once you had the wrong impression about something the next natural thought is to be curious about what other things you have wrong.
Except with meditation you aren't looking for problems, you a objectively observing. You just have to be willing to look, and willing to accept what you see. Once you start looking the whole edifice you have constructed, the material that makes up your life starts to become unraveled.
If I didn't have experience conquering powerful psychedelic trips, I probably would have washed out. To suddenly realize that you have been living in your head, one step abstracted from reality for your whole life, everything you think is real isn't quite real. It is bleak, it is terrifying, it is sad, it is embarrassing, it is disorienting. It takes real conviction to want to see that, and to not flinch or shy away.
The question is do you really want to see what you are, or do you want to keep living in a fantasy land of your own construction? I get why you want to stay in fantasy land, I retreat to it daily out of habit, it is comfy as fuck. But bit by bit, moment by moment I am choosing over and over again, every day to remember it is false, and let it go of it.
Once you see the falseness of it for yourself, there is no turning back.
>>28361328
i couldnt sit indian style when i was a thin kid. circulation to my legs would cut out.
>>28360378
if youre a normie it will help you feel better about your life by reaffirming the belief (the false belief) that theyre in control of their own success and happiness. as opposed to that success being largely out of their control, born pretty, born a female, happy upbringing, life surrounded by happy people because all of the above. im talking about western meditation at least who knows for some chink country it might be deep and spiritual, but here its mostly just people who have had life on easy mode, upper middle class or at least middle class who have no real problems.
>>28363256
>sit for so long that legs are not getting enough blood circulation
>blood clot forms in leg(s)
>clot goes to brain
>part of brain dies
>lucky if live at all
Sick is right."It's sad when people let addiction ruin their life."
You don't have to empty your mind. It's not a mystical or magic thing that requires strict conditions in order to achieve whatever it is you're looking to achieve. It's just a tool that you can use for a couple things.
Basically, shutting down or muting senses will heighten other ones. Quieting the five normal senses will allow you to use your sense of thought without diverting focus and attention needed to process the information from them. So if you just want to sit there and listen to your rambling thoughts, you can do that or you can use it to focus in on a problem and muse on it with a much larger scope. Or you can use it to focus on ideas (mantras. They can be whatever you want) to sort of mentally troll yourself into accepting a new idea into your everyday being.
>>28363384
meant to reply to
>>28363182
z
>>28363384
tfw i have tinnitus
>>28360441
Meditation/ mindfulness is amazing for clearing your head, so it'd make sense that bunch of fuck ups are attracted to it. You don't look at who's doing something to see if it's a good idea if you have actual information on the effectiveness of the practice
>>28363419
I find that mine mostly goes away when I completely relax my jaw. The nerves that drive your jaw muscles run right next to your auditory nerves and there can be crosstalk.
>>28360378
I have 7 years experience in meditation.
The effect that it has, if done properly, include many many things that are of great value.
Here's a few things that it did for me:
- ability to second-guess your own thoughts in real time and react to your world more thoughtfully
- ability to control anxiety consciously as one would control a spoon.
- ability to let go of feeling bad about the expectations you had for life that didn't come thorugh for you
- less need for willpower in making smart, healthy decisions
- ability to have dreamlike visions at a moment's notice that can help you understand your thoughts and feelings
- increased patience
Any questions?
>>28363111
Yes I understand, I can turn off the ego, and even as I said thoughts, but eventually I end up dreaming nonsense and sleeping. I know that is not meditation, it is supposed to be clear mind and never a thought, how is that even possible? I still have a hard time believing it, yes I can let go of emotions and stress and even forget my own name, minutes can pass but I see images of stuff, dreams, I hear music, I am suddenly sleeping. Is it really possible to empty your mind completely as meditation is supposed to do? Like of non emotional or ego related images and sounds?
FOR ANYONE ASKING HOW TO MEDITATE:
It's really easy to do but hard to get good at. It's simple.
1. get comfly. Lie down or sit in a comfy chair. Forget all those gay yoga poses, that's advanced.
2. Just fucking sit there with your eyes closed and focus on the feeling of your breath. It can be anywhere, like your belly, lungs, nose, or throat. just anywhere that you can feel your breath.
3. VERY SOON you will get bored and your mind will go somewhere else. You'll think about sex or food or vidja or something. DO NOT get mad at yourself. Just let the thoughts pass and go back to your breath.
What this does for you is it trains you not to be controlled by your thoughts but to be the controllero f your thoughts. It's like judo where you use the opponent's weight against them -- just let the thoughts go right by you.
Once you can focus on your breath for a long time, 15 minutes or more, without being distracted and forgetting that you're meditating, you're ready for more advanced techniques.
>>28363570
Yogis (or whatever those dali lama fucks are called) have tried really hard to dispel that stupid myth about meditation but, in the end, spiritualism is a business and meditation is one of that business's money making vehicles. Basically, your conceptions of meditation are horse shit.
Here's a couple good links.
http://whatmeditationreallyis.com/index.php/lang-en/dare-to-meditate/item/17-8-what-meditation-is-not.html
http://whatmeditationreallyis.com/index.php/lang-en/dare-to-meditate.html
>Meditation is not about sitting and thinking about nothing.
>it's not about going into a trance and blissing out.
>>28363570
In the beginning I did pretty much exactly what you describe.
Try meditating with your eyes open. Focus on exactly what you hear right now. Let your eyes look at whatever they are going to look at. Notice your breathing, notice how it goes in and out with out you having to think about it. Now this is the key, notice how you can ask it to slow down with out directly slowing it down.
This is the trick you need to learn, the feeling you need to identify. Asking your brain and body to do things with out forcing them to do things. It's kind of like riding a horse, you have to trust that it will do what you ask, but you also have to respect it wields more force.
I don't turn off my ego or turn off my thoughts. I ask my mental focus to be placed on my senses, to give me the most complete perception of what it feels like to be me right at this very moment. The ego and thoughts will test me in the beginning of every session, asking me to be compelled by them, but again and again, maybe 10-20 times I choose not to be compelled and they go away on their own.
It is important that once you get this sitting you it while standing, then while walking, then while doing simple things around the house and so on.
I really hope you stick with it anon, I would rather loose a limb than give up what this practice has taught me.
>>28363632
I am now blinking and breathing manually. Thanks asshole.
>>28360497
Isn't that an important part of life? To want to improve and succeed?
>>28363749
They never do go away, they just stop being bothersome. It's not like having an ego or thoughts is a bad thing, they only become destructive when you stop seeing them clearly and forget what they are.
To the people saying that you have to focus on your bodily senses, what if you feel physically sick? From stress I feel dizzy, lightheaded, and get constant stomach and head aches. The last thing I want to focus is on how I'm feeling.
>>28363846
Western society sure is free of problems right now ain't it?
>>28363868
I am one of the people saying that. I have constant pain in both my knees. It stops being suffering when I stop resisting it.
Don't confuse that for meaning the pain goes away, it is always there, and it always hurts. It just stops causing me anguish when I accept it.
>>28363882
>>28363882
No, but it certainly has improved since the days of the caveman
>>28363835
Like it or not, that's a good first step. Becoming aware of yourself means becoming aware of your body.
Advanced masters are so aware of their automatic body functions that they can change them. There was a video of a yogi drinking through a straw with his asshole because he knew how to reverse his intestinal flow.
Body awareness is a GOOD sign. Meditation is hard work and not always comfortable. Keep going.
>>28363925
Thanks anon, that makes sense.
>>28363936
>Meditation is hard work and not always comfortable.
Depending on how knotted up your mind is it can be incredibly intense too. Like 2/8-3/8ths of good shrooms intense. To get the benefit you have to be willing to go along for the ride.
>>28363931
Then I could kill Chad and fuck his woman, now I can do neither.
>>28364012
I agree that the depth can be like a trip, but don't scare people off of it like that. You can't get away from mushrooms, dude. They just GET you. Meditation is light and self-paced, shrooms drag you kicking and screaming into the imaginal realm.
>not having your mind clear 24/7 and dispelling thoughts when they arrive
git gud
recently new to meditating.
just about getting the hang of it.
have definitely noticed change in mood and thoughts - being able to diffuse my mind from my body. that last part was pretty scary, when you start to realize what is seriously 'all in your head'.
it also helps me sleep way better than anything else.
didn't want to lead with this bc i thought ppl would call me a cuck, but last time i meditate, or after i completed my session (10 mins) - i felt so clear and positive (not euphoric) that i cried.
kinda scared to go at it again desu
>>28364082
Oops not looking to scare anybody.
Yeah with drugs you can't get off the ride until they are done. Meditation you can flinch and get off any time you want, but if you really want the benefit you have to one day stick with it and go through it.
I just got done meditating. Like usual when I went from being in the hugbox of my mind to the reality of my senses it was intense and unpleasant like jumping into a cold pool. But just like the pool, when you get used to it, you can start to have fun and you are glad you are in the water. I held myself back for a lot of years because I just wasn't willing to deal with the building discomfort. I would get close but I wouldn't cross over. Then one day I just said fuck it, I am riding this one out.
Another thing that can help with this is teaching yourself to be completely relaxed when you orgasm. I mean everything besides your dick is completely and utterly relaxed. Letting yourself fall into the orgasm instead of RAHHH HULK IS EJACULATING!!!. Things gets intense and it takes practice not to tense up mid way through it.
>>28364477
If it scares you a little bit, you are doing it right. It's a long path anon, but a great path.
Stick with it.
What a positive thread this is. Bravo /r9k/!
Meditation does help you calm down and just be less of a scatterbrain.
That's about it. I still recommend doing it, though.
>>28364594
>Meditation does help you calm down and just be less of a scatterbrain.
It's more than that. When you do this you are able to see life way more clearly.
So much self help crap is about thinking this idea or thinking that idea. If you can clearly see with YOUR OWN SENSES where YOU are fucking YOURSELF up, it becomes a lot easier to stop hurting yourself.
>>28360378
That slut is like "oh look at me im so spiritual and im casually naked :O ;) "
Fucking worthless scum
>>28364862
if you are mad that she's doing it wrong, you're less enlightened than she is.
>read about how meditation is where you clear your mind of all thoughts and people find it super hard, some even say the point is to realize this task is impossible but to try anyway
>often spend ages just staring into space not thinking about anything as time passes usually when waiting for something
>not sure if spiritually enlightened or just extremely stupid
>>28364962
>not sure if spiritually enlightened or just extremely stupid
Could be both
>>28364962
There is no difference between the two.
I just thought of this statement, never uttered before in the history of this board.
>>28364962
meditation is not about having a clear mind, that's new age bullshit. meditation is about becoming the controller of your mind rather than it being the controller of you.
>>28364962
I personally always think as "clarity of thought" or "mind over matter".
Like when you have a toothache and there is a blizzard outside on a sunday, simply meditating to stop the pain will work wonders.
>>28363846
That is one side of life. But so many people get caught up in these desires, driven by forces they can't identify, and lose sight of what they were striving for in the first place. Or they chase visions of "success" that are ultimately hollow and unfulfilling.
It's important to take a step back from time to time. Remember who you are, where you came from and where you're going.
>>28360378
>sitting on the ground naked
>tfw
>>28365127
Oh dear god...
It's calming and helps you develop new patterns of cognitive behavior, while allowing you to cope with stress without becoming as overwhelmed by it. My thinking is less obsessive now and I don't dwell on my failures as often. It's not a magic cure, but if you do it daily and put in a little work, you'll see results.
I talked myself down from freaking out during an acid trip, and I think a lot of it comes from meditating and realizing that feeling bad won't hurt you. I'd have needed a bunch of xanax beforehand, but that time I did it on my own. Also, I recommend against taking acid or any kind of drug at all if you're prone to depression and anxiety.
I wouldn't advice you to sit down and fall for le spiritual new age le magic third eye meme
I would advie you to breathe. Don't just take air, b r e a t h e. If you think about it breathing feels so fucking good. We take it for granted. Just sit there and really think about how good it feels to have such an complex human body at your disposal, alive and breathing. Blood flowing, eyes converting light into images, hands moving. It's so fucking rad. It makes me happy.
>>28363999
ive heard people say to focus on your discomfort during meditation
>>28366287
whatever you do, do not focus on your dick
>A Thai Buddhist monk cut off his penis with a machete because he had an erection during meditation and declined to have it reattached, saying he had renounced all earthly cares, a doctor and a newspaper said on Wednesday.
http://uk.reuters.com/article/oukoe-uk-life-thailand-monk-idUKBKK28492620061122
Why can't women fucking do anything without attention whoring about it
>>28367563
>In many Buddhist sutras it was taught that women could never become Buddhas. One sutra reads, "Even if the eyes of the Buddhas of the three existences were to fall to the ground, no woman of any of the realms of existence could ever attain Buddhahood."
>>28360378
Its all just semantic bullshit and placebo effects. The effects during and after meditation are due to a willingness to believe you've done something to improve yourself, and all this talk about "mind over matter" and higher levels of thought is rhetoric. You cannot "control" your own mind, and self-awareness is inherently limited. Just because a bunch of dumbfuck monks swear that it works doesn't mean it does, hell, the western world was built by people who would've sworn that praying works.
>>28363936
>here was a video of a yogi drinking through a straw with his asshole because he knew how to reverse his intestinal flow.
I've heard of people who are able to suck air into their butt in order to fart on command, but I'm pretty sure they didn't meditate to do that.
>>28360378
Aakaash Mudra / Akaash Vardhak
AAkaash Vardhak MudraPopularly known as Aakaash mudra, this mudra increases the (inactive) Aakaash (ether or space) element within the body.
Method:This mudra is formed by joining together the tips of the thumb and the middle finger.
Effects: Aakaash-vardhak mudra increases the aakaash (space) element within the body. Since the space within the body is a part of the outer space (aakaash or cosmos), practice of this mudra enables the individual (aatmaa) to reunite with the collective consciousness (Paramaatmaa or God). Negative emotions like fear, anger, sorrow, etc., are replaced by positive emotions and thoughts. The above-mentioned increase in internal space is effected by the elimination of metabolic wastes from the body. Thus Aakaash-vardhak mudra is a detoxifying mudra.The increased internal space enables the rest of the four bodily elements: vaayu (air), agni (fire), jal (water) and prithvi (earth) to increase, affording them a room to act. Thus, Aakaash-vardhak mudra can be beneficially combined with mudras that increase the other four elements (i.e., Vaayu-vardhak mudra, Prithvi-vardhak mudra, Agni-vardhak mudra and Jal-vardhak mudra). In general, Aakaash-vardhak mudra is an excellent mudra that stimulates noble thoughts and helps the practitioner to take rapid strides along the path to moksha (salvation). It also helps a person who wishes to scale great heights in the art of meditation. The element Aakaash is also a component of bodily humor Vaata. Therefore, Aakaash-vardhak mudra reinforces the Vaata humor of the body. It should be done in moderation by people of Vaata constitution.
Benefits of Aakaash-vardhak mudra:
Helps -to develop noble & elevated thoughts
To develop intuition and extra sensory powers (ESP)
To detoxify the body by the elimination of metabolic wastes
To overcome a feeling of fullness / heaviness in the body or body-parts
To relieve congestion (and pain) in the head
>>28369761
you're missing the point. the point is that with focus and practice, you can do things with your mind and body that are inconceivable for the average person.
>>28363846
Yeah, that's why vacations don't exist you complete idiot.
>>28360378
Doing active meditation (with breathing exercises and mantra chanting) has greatly improved my physical and mental health. Not to mention the social benefits of doing this as part of a yoga community rather than just alone at home or in the park.
I suggest others try this type of meditation, not silent meditation, especially if you are low attention span internet addict like me.
Just came here to say "being free of your ego" or "ascending your ego" or whatever you wanna call is the biggest ego trip of all
"Mediation" encompasses hundreds of different traditions, it's almost as ambiguous as "prayer". Cannot actually answer without more specific input, no idea what the fuck you are talking about.
>>28363632
Every time I do this my breathing feels weird and I end up yawning a lot.
>>28370142
that's a thin excuse for not continuing until you master it.
>>28370152
To what end? All the claims made of meditation seem awfully hard to believe.
>>28360451
>>28360419
She is sitting in full lotus position which is the most stable traditional meditating pose. She probably very comfortable, very relaxed and very practiced.
You don't accomplish anything on meditation, you lose all your insecurities, or whatever is bothering you, and let it all go. You get into peaceful relaxation and you accept everything that is going on. To truly feel the effects you have to be present in the moment and for that, focus on your breathing.
It's not rocket science to meditate.
>>28370331
It may well be simple, but it's certainly not necessarily easy.
>>28370367
Well that's true. For someone who has done psychedelics before, it's much easier to shut off my mind because I know how to just observe through my consciousness.
Really the key to meditation is to pretend that you're in that peaceful void forever.
>>28370198
if you don't believe it, then don't do it. the rest of us aren't losing anything by your refusal to participate. we're just offering guidance because we know that this is one of the strongest and most reliable paths to peace.
people who meditate tend to not want suffering -- not yours, not mine, not anyones. find yourself and you'll see that you lose suffering at the same time.
>>28370437
My limited forays into the practice have not been promising. The inactivity simply leads to a mounting agitation, and at that point persisting seems pointless.
