Why haven't you become a communist yet, r9k?
>>28221444
Because it is a fucking retarded way to distribute scarce resources, and totally disregards the risk that people take in investing both in enterprises and themselves.
nah senpai, why should I be a communist
>>28221470
I did assume you are working from a Marxist framework here, so correct me if I am wrong in that assumption I suppose.
I'm a capitalist with natsoc tendencies.
>>28221444
>checked
And I already am FamiCOM.
Because it's literally retarded.
Modern day college Hyper-Liberals seem to think Communism means awesome shit for everyone, when in reality it means beets and commieblocks for most everyone.
>>28221444
>being a communist in the current year
wew lad
the 20th century called familia. they want their ideology back.
We need to accelerate capitalism and embrace machine supremacy.
>>28221444
Social Democracy seems more realistic given the current state of the world. I love the idea of cooperatvies though.
I am an anarchist communist.
>God tier
Council Communism
Anarcho-Syndicalism
>Great tier
Syndicalism
Luxembourgism
Mutualism
>Good tier
Titoism
Orthodox Marxism
>Meh tier
Trotskyism
Leninism
Reformism
>Shit tier
Marxism-Leninism
Marxism-Leninism-Maoism
>What the fuck are you doing tier
Hoxhaism
Maoism-Thirdworldism
Juche
Whatever Pol Pot believed in
Because I don't think it will really work. I'm skeptical of revolutions, and although capitalism has it's problems, we at least know it sort of works. We don't even know how genuine communism would function. A regulated market system with strong labor rights and an active welfare state is really the best bet for the future.
If you're a robot you have no reason to have any political philosophy or beliefs.
The only reason anyone fights to impose their views on society is because they care about the future of their community and about the people within it. They have friends, family, lovers, and children whose lots they wish to better, not to mention their own.
If you're a robot you have no friends, no girlfriend, no children, and probably hate yourself, so there is zero reason for you to give a damn what happens to society now or a hundred years down the line.
>>28221444
Hail Satan.
originalio
>>28221513
Communism has nothing to do with liberalism you brainwashed classcuck.
>>28221444
Every argument for left and far-left ideologies I've heard always ends with an insinuated or explicit "And if anyone doesn't want to go along with it, we'll kill them". I don't like that.
>>28221649
What about when we start running out of resources?
Communal ownership is literally the best bet we have of not ruining the environment.
Go back to /leftypol/ commie faggot. Don't forget to keep squabbling!
>>28221617
>Whatever Pol Pot believed in
I don't know if Pol Pot was even a socialist/leftist, though he called himself such. (or maybe he didn't, I don't know, that whole thing was more or less an exercise in sheer lunacy) He was in practice more of a reactionary nationalist, wanting to abandon modern industry in favor of agriculture, get rid of 'muh degenerate foreign influences', and persecute ethnic minorities.
Either way it was a retarded idea.
>>28221696
Oh yeah the right totally isn't about killing people they disagree with.
Since I like National Socialism and Fascism better because the concept of the New Man appeals to me greatly
>>28221729
Yeah but he liked the color red so unfortunately he's going to be associated with the left forever.
>>28221696
>>28221733
Literally every ideology does this. Ideology is at its foundation the desire to impose one's view of a proper society upon others. It is inherently violent and coercive.
But fanatics who've never held power love to pretend like they wouldn't turn into mass murderers the moment they won control of a country.
>>28221444
>trips
It willnever work in the west
i am though
well bye
>>28221742
>watches anime
>thinks he wont be sent to a work camp if the Fourth Reich became a thing
>>28221733
the authoritarian right is absolutely about that and I don't like them either. There's at least a libertarian right, though. The left is always either authoritarian outright, or becomes so the moment you ask them what they'll do if a significant chunk of the populace disagrees with the way they want to run things.
Because I'm not a retard.
Highly original thought here fyi
Because it doesn't matter which political position you pick.
The reality is the same. Whether it be communist or Socialist, Capitalist, Free market or Ancap, It will always be a small group of wealthy ruling over the masses of poor. Every single time. What kinda flag you want on your Ogliarchy, senpai? Gimme dat red shit. Oh, you a democrat? Gimme dat Star and stripes
>>28221785
>libertarian right
The libertarian right just advocate for a different type of authority. Corporations are a form of authority.
Abandon the spook of property and become a supreme egoist.
>>28221785
There is nothing libertarian about the right.
>>28221785
There is no 'libertarian right' (then again,the left, despite all of their rhetoric about human rights and liberation, turn into authoritarian butchers as welll). Rightist politics are fundamentally about a preservation of hierarchy or authority; the counter-revolutionaries back in the 1790s who wanted to quash the French libertarian and democratic ideology were the first to be labeled 'right-wing'.
>>28221781
I guarantee if the top level Nazis were young today they would be full on moeshitters
Goebbels in particular, there is no way to read his diaries and say this isn't true
>>28221821
>the Japanese Empire would not have been horrified at Anime
>>28221444
because im not a fuc-king retard
>>28221444
But I am anon.
>>28221470
>scarce resources
there's enough empty houses in America to house the homeless population a few times over.
>>28221863
>weeb
>not a fucking retard
pick one and only one
>>28221851
The top Nazis were pretty much all autists.
>>28221444
Because I'm not a fat virgin manchild
>>28221851
A modern reich would be lead by handsome chads. Alt-right forums like /pol/ are just useful idiots to the real masterminds of the far-right.
>>28221885
>calls communists fat virgin manchildren
>posts fat, virgin nazi
>>28221868
>enough empty houses
But that isn't how global scarcity works anon, those houses are interlinked in every other commodity and resource. That is why communism fails, or ultimately would over time, as a government attempting to set "artificial" goals for societal achievement will never match the near-perfect balance of ideal capitalism.
>>28221914
I'm pretty sure that was the point you tard.
>>28221920
Confirmed for knowing absolutely nothing about communism.
>>28221920
Then we publicize all resources. Private property is gay.
>NEET into communism
huehuehuehue
>>28221920
>near perfect balance of ideal capitalism.
Im still waiting on that anon. In the mean time people starve while we have enough food and go cold while we have enough shelter. Anythings got to be better than this anon.
>>28221670
Only cucks think like that. People impose their views on society because they think they know better, they want to get something out of it for themselves, or both. They are no other reasons. No food back to your cuckshed and think very hard about how stupid you are.
>>28221885
>Nazi
>Communism
Wot
>>28221707
How do you figure? Communism says it's someone else's problem in the future. Fishing is the perfect example. Who gives a shit about tomorrow, if I don't get the fish someone else will, grab the boom boom and lets play the reefs up. Explosive fishing would not happen if people owned and felt some sense of ownership. Communism is the fastest path to destroying the environment.
>>28221937
>>28221939
If we publicise all resources it is still up to an elected body to decide how to ditribute them, and unfortunately they can never react as quickly as the current setup
>knows nothing about communism
I have read the fucking manifesto you inbred, which I know is almost certainly more than you.
>>28221945
People will always starve in capitalism. That is unfortunately the way of this Earth, we have winners and losers, and it is far more efficient (and fair) to leave that decision up to a rough equivalence of chance than to leave a probably incompetent public servant to call the shots. It is the best option out of a set of bad options.
>>28222001
Capitalism has destroyed fisheries friendo
If regulation wasn't in place to protect them they would be extinct
>>28222001
No private property and consumerism means society can live off of what it needs to maintain itself and progress.
>>28221939
literally the most important thing in the world for me is to have a private space thats mine and mine alone, where nobody else goes
capitalism can give me that and communism is opposed to being able to have that on principle, so I'll put up with any amount of cucking by the rich to avoid your world
>>28222031
No nigger, we are still a fair way from total collapse, and restrictions forgotten, major fishery companies are already heavily investing in aquacultural technology.
Keep on assuming the people far more qualified than our newsreaders and politicians are actually idiots who like it when money runs out and the world ends. That is certainly the case.
>>28222057
>a private space thats mine and mine alone
Eminent domain and property taxes
>>28222001
it's legitimately insane that you'd use fisheries as an example of capitalism done well
>>28222079
>Keep on assuming the people far more qualified than our newsreaders and politicians are actually idiots who like it when money runs out and the world ends.
Humans, even the smart ones, are shit at foresight.
>>28222057
Most communal living spaces would probably have private rooms for those who wish to be isolated. You just can't own land, industry and resources.
>>28222079
Clearly you have never taken an environmental science course or you would know about crises in may fisheries around the world
>>28221444
Because it doesn't work. If it did it'd be a lot more popular. It seems only weeaboos like to think everyone should be equal when we all know that anyone who doesn't indulge In a perverts world is above them
>>28222103
>a room in a communal living space
because that's totally just as good as your own damn building in a spot of your choosing, right?
>>28221444
This is probably a bait thread, but I am a socialist, which is pretty fucking close to a communist. It's funny how so many believe what they hear about communism and socialism from their parents and history textbooks. It is a fairer system and robots would benefit the most from it. Yet they vote against their best interests.
>>28222030
>I have read the fucking manifesto you inbred, which I know is almost certainly more than you.
Don't have a lot of physical books, but here's what I got. Nice try though.
>>28222094
>oceans are not private property
>fished out in 10 years
hmm...
>>28222099
Except in capitalism, we rely on everyone to make the decision about what they think is gonna happen next, instead of a much smaller group in communism.
They are infact investing heavily in a fish farming future, as their catch size is decreasing to a level where just driving around with nets is no longer feasible as >>28222094 has shown us.
The guys who make money are anything but idiots, and unfortunately the way they make it is simply a reflection of our society in general, not capitalism as a system. People like money more than trees, oceans, or native animals, no form of communism is going to alter that.
>>28222031
Fisheries exist because greedy 3rd world comfy shits overfish.
>>28222049
People who fish are eating the fish. They don't blow up reefs for shits and giggles, though that would be a very communist thing to do seeing how fedora on head all non capitalists are.
>>28222157
Freedom is preferable to security.
>>28222116
I am not denying the crisis you fuckwit, I am telling you that you are not the only one aware of it. The companies have been accutely aware of it and are altering their methods as we speak. Please have a look at the percentile of fish farmed last year compared to caught, and rethink your value to this Earth.
>>28222164
>Oceans are public property that greedy industries are allowed to pilfer without consequence
We need, at the very least, some Georgist tax on ocean rights because it's fucking ridiculous how much we're fucking it up.
>>28222178
First world countries consume the most, that is a contradiction
>>28222164
what are you saying here
well you'd have to be really fucking stupid to suggest that trying to divide the ocean into private property is the right way of doing things
Because only the bare minimum is thought to be sufficient for other people from the perspective of any one individual. Planners would've thought smartphones would have been a redundant luxury the average person wouldn't need. The free market is the only way they have become a common thing for everyone.
I hate communism so fucking much because I just imagine people like Hilary Clinton asking a question like: "well, do you really NEED it?" And then that becomes the standard of life, living just so you don't die, its so depressing.
Also, idk if anyone saw that post on Reddit where the Russian kids were amazed by the American grocery stores as if they're luxurious? That was pathetic af, Fuck communism.
>>28222160
>manifesto without any kind of modern foreward
This is why you are so backwards, get up to date with the more modern criticisms of your bible instead of trying to discover them on this shithole of a site.
>>28222197
why are we supposed to see destruction of a resource that can be consumed sustainably as a positive
>>28222239
>all you can critique is my version of the Manifesto
You're trying really, really hard.
>>28222160
wot edition of stirner is that
i need a copy
>>28222157
Fuck you, self righteous cunt. You are dumb as shit. Not everyone is as stupid as you, nor do they want the same thing as you. Just because we want something that is better than what you want does not mean we are going against our bent interests. You're literally saying stop liking things I don't like. If communism is so great move to South America and start genociding or whatever it else you red fucks do. Che 'fuck nice things' Guano is still popular and unironically worn on t-shirts down there.
>>28222255
Are you reading my posts?
There is nothing positive about it, but the world needs protein, and I an letting you know that it is widely accepted that fish farming has become more efficient than fish hunting.
Be happy, the ocean has been saved by greed.
>>28222300
More like fishing companies have squeezed it dry of fish so now they need to start farming
>>28222273
I am telling you why you are busy shifting through shit on a pointless site, and didn't even bother addressing my original points. As this is the only conclusion I could come to that explains both oddities.
>>28222213
We also fish the most responsibly. Any poor jackass with a canoe and net can blow shit up. Not only do good people use big ass ships and nets we even throw the dumbass dolphins who get caught back to sea instead of just mixing them up and hoping noone notices.
>>28222157
>be leftist
>see poor people not voting for redistribution
>"What the hell? How could they possibly be against this? It's in their own economic best interest!"
>see rich people voting for tax cuts
>"What the fuck, how dare they vote for their own economic best interests!"
>>28222300
why am i supposed to be happy that companies have fucked the ocean to the point where their only option is aquaculture
clearly there is a farming/fishing divide that allows for a healthy ocean and feeds people and capitalism did not find that divide
>>28222289
http://www.amazon.com/dp/048644581X/
It is alright. Might be better reading it online somewhere.
>>28222319
Exactly. A resource was abundant, it was abused, invention saved us before total system collapse.
In a Marxist system, with a lack of adequate reward for such invention, we would keep fishing far longer than we "should", and be looking at a much bigger problem in only a few short years.
Next on the menu is a shift from fish protein to bug protein
>Source: Agricultural advisor when not arguing with autists on the internet
>>28222380
>bug protein
Nice meme
Next you'll tell me all food will be a different form of engineered yeast product
>>28222380
>fish farming
>invention
you 'aving a giggle m8
>>28222319
So you'd rather a greedy capitalist party took all the fist to equally distribute then once the oceans are dead say 'all gone lol, I bet the capitalists did this'
>>28222369
See
>>28222380
There is no better, or faster, way of finding this divide without risking a serious food shortage, which would have enormous consequences for the entire world.
Everyone likes to think that they can see everything the way it is meant to be, just calm down, and think about how likely it is that you are truly the next god-king while sitting on this board complaining. People far smarter than us conduct long-term, and indepth research about the continued economic feasibility of fisheries, and have been doing so for decades, and up until now it made economic sense as it was obviously an abundant resource.
This is the equivalent of getting upset about the first settlers in America cutting down trees, they had no choice, and the trees had no balue to society at the time.
>>28222418
It literally is the same result retard
>>28221444
Because I'm an Anarcho-Communist, sorry I'm not hot ML fire.
>>28222358
They are so selfish and childlike in mental capacity they are incapable of imagining someone with a perspective different from their own.
>>28222405
How about you look at some statistics about protein need projections before memeing at me?
>>28222407
>Modern Aquaculture
>not an invention
You know how I know you are out of you depth?
>>28222447
You should be upset that they cut those trees down, and take all unused land via eminent domain and reforest it
>>28222472
>unused land
The very fact that is exists means it is in use anon, it has potential to be something far more valuable to current society than trees.
>>28222501
Nah family, abandoned brown fields and factories would be better off as forests
>>28222449
How so? One means no fish(reds), the other means vibrant thriving oceans and markets fill of fish sourced from farms(good, aka capitalism). They seem like opposite results to me. I'm not blinded by retarded anger over the fact that someone got paid money to develop the necessary tech to farm fishies on an industrial scale.
>>28222447
why did the people who did long-term in-depth research fail at maintaining a renewable resource
why was the cutoff "oops the oceans depleted, sorry about that" and not "okay here's the line where this becomes unsustainable"
>>28221444
I have yet to see or hear of any practical means of actually implementing it.
Seriously, give me a good proposition and I'll think about it, but literally all I ever hear from you faggots is "give the workers the means of production" and I already know that. The big question is how the fuck do you keep everything going smoothly when you accomplish that.
How do the factories meet output requirements when they are no longer required to adequately respond to market demands in order to remain in operation? How does distribution, law enforcement, infrastructure upkeep, etc... function without a state?
Basically if you remove the free market and you remove the state entirely what the hell keeps everything in coherent harmony? Nobody gives me any practical answers to this.
>>28222536
They literally are at the economically unsustainable point you retard?
I have been saying this the whole time, they have reached the point where to exploit this resource any further is not financially viable, leaving us at the unsustainable line, with an ocean relatively full of fish, and an amazing farming industry currently in the pipeline.
>>28222160
>Stirner
Nice, but hol up
>Hegel, Marx
NICE SPOOKS FAGGOT
>>28222523
Better off unfortunately takes money that society has decided would be better spent elsewhere. Sorry senpai, but we all get a choice in this shit.
>>28222601
>>28222601
>relatively full of fish
Toppest kek
>>28222630
>40% maximum depletion and only in large migratory predators
You got me m8, it is actually empty.
>>28222561
The obvious answer is a ruling elite. They sit around sipping champagne and munching on caviar while determining how to distribute the flour and water, and whether they should cut back even more on the monthly sugar rations
>There are people in this thread arguing about economic systems based on fucking fishing
if you're going to discuss ideology, discuss it in terms of ideology and not some bullshit hypothetical scenario, i.e. discuss why you agree/disagree with the dictatorship of the proletariat or some other shit instead of coming up with bullshit
>>28222663
Sounds like the modern globalist elite
>it's an I'm a enlightened communist and true communism had never been done episode
Lmaoing @ ur lives
>>28222670
This anon gets it, I just wanted to argue over fisheries because it's my job, and some retard on the internet really thinks it is a good talking point to discuss political systems.
>>28222705
nice class consciousness there m8 :^)
>>28222601
by sustainable i meant environmentally sustainable, not economically
i'll cop to not having hard data on hand but "the oceans are pretty fucked from fishing" seems to the usual refrain
>>28222663
Explain the market crashes you cretin.
>>28222614
Don't meme at me.
>>28221801
stirner got btfo'd
>>28222670
I'll do you one better. Bring up any point at all and I'll tell you why communism a shit.
People are inherently unequal. Instead of pretending all are equal and punishing the entire planet for thin unfair distribution of innate ability we find a system that allows for the good to do good while minimizing the bads' ability to do bad. This means good people run corporations, bad people go to jail, and mediocre people are found in between. It's not 'fair', but it's more 'and fair than any other alternative.
>>28222725
To many, muh 'conomy is all that matters
What is communism exactly? I don't follow into politics too much.
>>28222761
Marx was pretty good at refuting those arguments, too bad they weren't Stirner's
>>28222725
They are environmentally sustainable for now, if fishing continued at it's previous predicted growth rates it stood a chance at causing system collapse (a no recovery situation)
As it is now, the switch will likely occur in the next 4-5 years to mainly farmed fish, with the ocean making a huge recovery from it's already only minorly depleted status.
People like to complain about "muh ocean" "muh government" " muh monopoly" when really it is because they can't stand the idea that smarter people than them are paid specifically to solve these issues because it makes economic sense to.
The fish are fine, capitalism has apparently saved them for now.
>>28222775
>innate ability
>inherently unequal
>good, bad, fair
Where are the qualifications?
>>28222732
What do you mean exactly? If noone buys a product then there is no market for it. It's pretty straight forward. The market is self correcting.
>>28222798
You seem pretty knowledgeable about this fish shit so random question:
I've heard that farmed fish is actually worse for the environment than wild fish because fish farms put out tons of chemicals and polluted waste water. Do you know anything about that?
>>28222832
Kek sorry, misread your original post as a jab at capitalism, as you were soldier.
>>28222817
There are no qualifications besides making it or not making it. It's just a sort of natural selection. It's kind of circular in reasoning but it beats everything the other side suggests.
>>28222850
That is why I was counting modern aquaculture as an invention earlier, due to the innovation in containment, disease treatment, and feeding that has been required to put together an economically sustainable alternative.
It was the main factor holding us back from farmed fish, due to the havoc that chemicals and escaped fish can wreak on the local environment (which a company is usually forced to fix or pay for)
>>28222775
No one said everyone's equal in the terms I think you're describing, no Marxist has every said that. Marx just said that people have a right to democratically control what they produce, how they produce it, who they produce it with, and the distribution of it, democratically and based on collective consensus. Naturally, if a company was democratically controlled I doubt it would be in a top-down system we see today with such gross wealth inequality.
Communism is what happens eventually, according to historical materialism, and will happen eventually if you like it or not (unless you're a Luxemburgist and say it's socialism or barbarianism). It is not something to be forced immediately on the world after revolution.
Also, even if you bring it up, human 'nature' is entirely dependent upon the material conditions of the epoch from which the individual/collective originates and is not some set "all are good" vs "all are bad/stupid" idea, at least in the Marxist view.
I'd like to finish by saying I'm not a Marxist though, so I may have accidentally misrepresented the arguments proposed.
>>28222900
You can't just say
"People are unequal because they are" you fucking brainlet
>>28221444
Capitalism: Gross domestic product of $17 trillion
Communism: GDP at $12 trillion
Perfect, you say! Everyone gets their fair share with communism. That they do. But the average household income is just $45k instead of $60k with capitalism.
Except, every communist country out right now has significantly lower GDPs. I pay more in taxes than the per-capita GDP of North Korea.
But... as time goes on, productivity drops because the hardest workers have no motive to do more than the minimum. You get pay cuts every year instead of pay increases. You peak right when it starts, and you won't see the good days until you kill off your communist dictator and go back to a sensible merit-based market.
So what's the fix? Tax "the rich" more. They still make more money for being "more productive" (innovating, whatever), there's a profit motive but you still get more taxes to provide a basic income, universal health care, whatever. You want to live in poverty, fine, I think that's reasonable. Be as lazy as you want. If you want more, get a job. The minimal standard of living in the US is better than what 99% of North Koreans live in.
>>28221617
Imo the best is democratic confederalism. It finds a good middle ground between full on Marxist-Leninism and capitalism. If it works in the Middle East surely it can work in the more developed west
>>28222918
You can't just say
"People are equal because they are" you fucking brainlet
>>28222939
Burden of proof my man
>>28222927
>north korea
>communist
I bet you think China is a communist nation too.
>>28222949
Not even that anon, but since when is it an agreed upon fact that this world always hands out fair lots?
Sometimes you get dealt a bad hand, shit sucks, and everyone is aware of this?
The burden of proof is on you my friend to say that people are all equal dispite the difference in their backgrounds.
>>28222927
>Saying state capitalist dictatorships are a stateless classless moneyless societies
There aren't any Communist countries, in terms of fitting the bill of being stateless, classless, moneyless societies, only ones who are capitalist but wave a red flag around.
>>28222961
Oh man you're telling me if they just did communism right, it'd work? How do they go about doing such a thing?
>>28221696
Well if you look at the North Syria federation you can see that competent leadership can definitely make leftism work without resorting to authoritarian measures. The SDF has been able to work with the tribes and devote Muslims, which reject every notion of leftism.
>>28222984
You're a product of your environment, not your genes
In this way all people are equal
>>28222949
How's this then, ask any two people to do any task. One will do better than the other every single time. Do I really need to cite a study showing Olympic track runners can run a better 100m than a tetraplegic in an assisted living facility?
>>28222918
People are unequal because they have different capacities, abilities, and talents.
Some people are smart, some are stupid. Some are physically fit, some are not.
>>28223006
>Syria
>No authorative measures present
Wew lad, cus absense of data is data right? there would be no reason to suspect that this first time example in a warzone could have a few skeletons in the closet?
>>28222993
So communism relies on a barter system? In this classless society, who determines what everyone's fair share is?
In a true stateless society, you have anarcho- capitalism.
>>28222984
>>28223024
No Communists say people are equal, only that they should receive from each according to their ability, to each according to their need, i.e. everyone is entitled to a life so long as they produce for society, and if they don't produce for society they will be dropped like an ugly baby.
>>28223022
>Your genes do not shape your environment
So I could totally go live in the ghetto right now, and vice versa, right tumblr?
>>28223022
Gene's play a huge role in human development. It's actually what makes them human. Environment plays a minimal role here as it only determines how the genes that are present are expressed and nothing else.
>>28222911
>Marx just said that people have a right to democratically control what they produce
Put people already have that. You have every right to do whatever you like economically. Take whatever job you like, producing whatever you like.
>>28223057
If you were raised poor and in the ghetto, you'd be likely to be poor your entire life, even if your genes were perfect (we wuz kangs) level
>>28223055
What if I need a private jet, 8000 sqft home, a fine wardrobe made from endangered frog skins, and my ability is playing video games really well?
>>28223055
If I produce enough to feed 200 starving people, in a manner that the typical human can't replicate.. I should be rewarded more. If you reward me the same as the lazy guy who barely produces enough food for himself, then I'll do the same.
So you can give up all that productivity if you want. But without a $$ motive, I'm not going to work harder than I need to. Very few will. It becomes a race to the bottom.
reMEMEber to smash dat mf like button if you up (100)
>>28223069
He is talking about state wide.
It is essentially a trustfund that you are forced into being a part of, which due to it's monopoly can control the economy entirely based off the votes of it's members. Or at least this is a simplified explanation in a capitalist framework
>>28223055
>to each according to their need
And how do you determine need? What if I told you I needed a Ferrari in a communist system? You would be obliged to give it to me because I need it.
>>28223005
This "no true scotmans" fallacy (as in the use of this as an argument, not the fallacy itself), is a common but false point used against leftism. The thing here is that simply calling yourself communist means nothing. NK calls themselves democratic, which obviously no one takes serious as its simply not true. Why is it then that when a country or party calls themselves communist, despite their actions showing everything but, they will be uninamously decided communist simply for the reason of identifying as such?
Last time i checked the actions are what matter. What someone calls themselves doesnt matter.
>How do they go about doing such a thing?
see>>28222932
>>28223006
>>28223107
If I was born white I would have a much better shot at getting out than being born black. If for no other reason than the gangs wouldn't want me, and the bullying would make me want to leave.
So genes can definitely influece your environment, and hence influence the rest of your life.
>>28223131
>>28223112
You will never afford a jet or a Ferrari.
Lmaoing at classcucks
>>28223048
You can't have a stateless capitalist society because capitalism necessitates the state (the monopoly on violence) in order to enforce private ownership of the means of production, otherwise the workers could rise up and seize the means of production and the products of their labour.
>>28223069
The choice for a slave to choose between a master that beats him hard and a master that beats him harder is hardly a choice, i.e. choosing between an 11$/h job and a 10$/h job is essentially meaningless because your relationship to the means of production, as well as the alienation experienced, remains the same.
>>28223112
>>28223131
It will be decided democratically by the people of the area the democratic body is administrating, so it's possible you could acquire this but I doubt wherever you live would see you to need this. Also, I think it's rather useless me trying to theorise what a communist society would look like considering this is like asking a man in the 15th century to describe a capitalist society.
>>28223107
I grew up trailer trash. As soon as I could I moved out, worked hard, graduated from cc and am living like relative royalty with my own 1br apartment, owning a car, and maintaining a positive savings rate. Environment means very little. I was smarter, and additionally wanted more. The only reason people stay poor is because they wanted to. I got a 50% scholarship and a few poorfag scholarships. Had I scored one point higher on my act I could have gotten a free ride. Black people have even lower standards and even more poorfag scholarships. They love poverty and the ghetto mere that life itself. As someo who left such an environment I can say fuck poor people, I know just how disgusting they are. I'm not about to buy a tropical island or anything, but I make three time a year what both my parents gross per year, and I've only been working for 4 years
>>28223039
There literally are none. Im not talking about Assad, im talking about the SDF. They are very discplined in the use of force and keep their army under control. Some soldiers have been imprisoned for murder or even destroying property, which is something the US or EU countries wont even do.
Literally the worst thing on their record is forbidding people to return tot their village, which was rigged with IEDs (ISIS went as far as rigging childrens toys). All the civilians were given replacement residences.
>>28223164
So the workers can steal the products that I own, that I sell for maybe a 10% profit (some of which is used to pay them)? Fine, I'll hire armed guards at my factory. If you want a bullet in your skull, go ahead and steal a case of Frosted Flakes.
>>28223162
Who said anything about afford? I said need. Communism must give me what I need, which is frog pants and private jets. I promise I'll kick a lot of ass on call of duty in my big ass house when I'm not flying around.
>>28223218
And who writes their record you poor cuck? when it is just them there must be a question of how much they cover up.
You can't truly believe that any movement is morally good any more, can you?
>>28223214
probably the most valuable thing about capitalism is that it encourages people like this with the drive to make something of themselves and discourages lazy bums like his parentsand me
>>28223259
You won't have either one NEET
>>28223251
>stealing should be punished by death
M8
>>28223259
You're entitled to take the bus or subway system. Everyone shares.
What the fuck, you want a classist car like a Rari? No. Either everyone has one, or nobody does. And communists are too retarded to scale up Ferrari production to 10s of millions/year soooooo....
>>28223251
That YOU own? Need I remind you who built the means of production, who worked the means of production, who distributed its produce, and who, without their will and muscle, not a single wheel would turn? Oh yeah - the workers.
Also, you have perfectly demonstrated why Capitalism is necessarily coercive and violent, because without this coercion and violence, as you said, the workers could steal what is """"yours.""" and it's in your best interest, as a bourgeois, to ensure that doesn't happen.
>>28223288
Not even that anon, but you are a faggot, he simply pointed out
>without a state then the law is in the hands of private individuals, which would allow them to set their own guidelines
which you turned into
>kill for stealing every time! help muh, look at the right oppressing us workers! Bernie! Bernie! Cuck me!
>>28221444
Worshipping the state and personality cults are for cucks.
>>28223120
But why would anyone willingly become part of something like that? Tyranny of the majority over everything you do and your entire material life sounds like pure hell.
>>28223164
>I think it's rather useless me trying to theorise what a communist society would look like
If you can't coherently explain on a practical level how your system would function why do you expect anyone to take you seriously?
>The choice for a slave to choose between...
I'm really not sure what you're on about. Humans must work to support themselves, that is an unavoidable fact of the human condition that has been true since long before capitalism. Your own system talks about "from each according to their ability" so obviously there is an expectation of work. Why is one a "slave" if they work in a capitalist system and not a slave if they do the same work in a communist system?
>>28223288
There's no state. Everyone's free to do as they wish, remember?
I could set up a jail, we could do shariah law, whatever. I could even simply fire the workers that steal and they'll be unemployed with a black mark on their record, unable to get another factory job.
Sure, they can go ahead and steal all my shit but I control my bank account and even if they kill me off, my suppliers won't re-up until someone pays them for the goods. Seeing how they don't have the money to buy the raw materials.. they're off to loot the supplier. Well guess what, he's not as nice (or dead) as I am. He heard about the cocksuckers and has a barbed-wire fence outside the factory.
>>28223267
Record was methaporical you dumb faggot, obviously im not talking about a notepad with "bad things the SDF has done" written on it.
These were Amnesty reports btw.
>You can't truly believe that any movement is morally good any more, can you?
This group is legit, i rarely support anything out there but the efficiency and high regard for justice and human rights displayed by the SDF is on par with many Western nations, surpassing some even.
Just tell me what army in the world will imprisone one of their own for destroying civilian property?
>>28223320
Jesus fuck, this delusion...
He built the factory, he owns the wheels, and he took all the risk involved. The plebs just turn the wheels and earn their cash in hand, their job is easier and less integral to society, and as such is rewarded less.
Without the rich landowners, the peasants would have to go back to farming for food on their own tiny plots, and dying in droves every time the harvest is bad.
>>28223288
>>28223295
Then fuck communism. At least I have a miniscule chance with capitalism.
>>28223320
If anyone could do it everyone would own frosted flake factories. It takes a little more than being able to spin a wheel or bang with a hammer though, that's why he deserves it. Is my butthole inherently violent just because I'd fight any faggots who try to put their dick in it?
>>28221444
Because I'm not a poorfag
Original message
>>28223398
No single person builds a factory you dumb fuck, workers do. And see Anarchist Catalonia with your last point. See the Kropotkin quote at >>28221829
>>28223354
Us normal people don't want to become a part of it, hence why communism in such a form is very seldom voted in. It is always a gang of egotistical maniacs who sieze power because "we nuh better than all o u iduts"
>>28223354
Because capitalists are paid for work, so they're slaves. If the 'community' or some other faceless entity owns their body and everything they produce they aren't a slave because reasons.
>>28223382
The kind of army that knows doing a few PR stunts like that will keep the guns flowing in...
You are free to try and see the good in this world anon, but having been a loose part of movements fighting for rights in thirdworld shitholes, no one is the good guy.
>>28221444
The friend of my enemy is probably my enemy
>>28223451
>"we nuh better than all o u iduts"
That's purely Leninist ideology, most Communists aren't Leninists and so would not have a vanguard party (what you're referring to).
>>28223445
>"Workers have just started building these vast structures in the wilderness for no reason"
>"And look there he goes, the modern hermit crab, look a the jew scurrying to set up shop in his own home"
>"We have no idea why this phenomina occurs, but there is clearly no further mechanic behind it, other than the Jew oppressing anyone who enters it's randomly alloted lair"
Shit I want to live in your world anon, it seems far more exciting than the real one.
>>28223445
50 of my friends decided to pitch in $10,000 each of their savings to build the factory. We will then split the profit.
This is how the classical corporations were formed. Even now, there's no single owner of Google or Apple. There are millions of shareholders. The cash invested returns some percentage a year, that's a reasonable deal to people who've saved money.
The people who spend their entire excess and don't invest any are lucky that some do invest. Those same people could VOLUNTARILY create communist or socialist communities. Take 100 families. 20 parents watch all 100 kids. The other 80 work. Some will cook food, clean houses, some will repair shoes, make clothes. Everyone trades their services so everyone can get by cooperatively. Maybe they even live in a huge apartment complex that all chipped in to buy. Maybe they share units, share rooms, a few big kitchens.
Americans don't like to share. They don't like to cooperate. Having a government force them to won't make the system more desirable.
>>28221444
Because letting massive government bureaucracies redistribute wealth is a fucking TERRIBLE idea. Oh what is that I hear you saying? You are an anarcho communist? We should leave it up to the people to decide how wealth is distributed. That is capitalism, you fucking retard.
>>28223503
The very idea of a government body that allocates resources is exactly that.
Unfortunately all communism requires a system of redirection, or redistribution of efforts, and that will be lead by the delusional egotists 99.8% of the time.
>>28223558
>Those same people could VOLUNTARILY create communist or socialist communities
that has been tried from time to time
to my knowledge its never worked all that well
>>28223476
They were this way from the beginning (2011) when no one knew about them yet. Besides, in the end, there is no perfect government. You can only choose the better one of the bunch. Whatever reason these guys have for what they do, i surely will prefer it over the likes of the current US gov or in this context other Middle eastern governments.
>>28223558
That makes sense. Nothing makes me like doing something I hate more than being told to or else.
>>28223602
How do we know they were this way if no one knew about them?
How are you so sure my friend? the likelyhood of a righteous group staying true after taking power is near 0. Just look at the ANC and similair organisations.
>>28223698
I obviously didnt mean that literally no one knew about them. Just the general public in the West.
There always local news agency and obviously the people in the areas they control. Plus Turkey has been running a smear campaign on them, if they had any dirt on them it would have gotten out already.
>the likelyhood of a righteous group staying true after taking power is near 0
But they have been in power for 5 years now. Plus like i said, there is no perfect government, and from what there is to choose i would choose the SDF over any existing gov.
https://youtu.be/t8EMx7Y16Vo
desu senpai
Read all about chad and his children under socialism
>>28224125
>>28222705
True communism has been done. In catalonia during the 1930s for instance. Orwell wrote a fantastic book about it. Very inspiring.
https://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Homage_to_Catalonia
Who Monarchist here? Democracy is a unreliable political system that divides the people, and communism robs the people. The rise of "democracy" has caused people to lose sense of their tradition and destroys national unity. What is the point of a government "by the people for the people" if the entire populace doesn't vote? I would rather fight for a king or emperor over some 2-bit president any day. Monarchs are men trained from the day they are born to lead a nation while presidents are just a bunch of rich men up for a title, or worse, some crazed dictator who serves only himself and ruins the nation.
>>28224692
Here's another interesting example:
http://www.amerika.org/texts/march-on-fiume-hakim-bey/
Note that neither of these communist societies lasted long. Hakim Bey calls them "Temporary Autonomous Zones". He suggests that in lieu of total anarchy individuals can repeatedly establish TAZs to escape a potential slide into tyranny or cult of personality.
>>28224858
>genuinely likes the idea of Alexander's wartime Russia
>claims to not enjoy it when a leader is self-serving
You wot mate?
>>28223463
^ this times ten thousand
>>28223116
it is my humble opinion that this post is underrated
