Where would an ideal society be on this chart?
>>28108951
Anywhere between gray and red without going into the center
>>28108951
as long as white people exist on this earth, none of those systems will work.
>>28108951
it wouldn't be on the chart...
people shouldn't use power except for self defense
Off it.
Iron fisted far right Empire led by a genetically superior Chad.
The woes of robots will be eliminated in the ovens.
>>28108951
We should burn all of our resources so that nobody has the capability to have power.
>>28109243
>giving robot scum an easy out
they go in the labor camps, and then the torture pits when they can't be worked any more
>>28108951
>tfw modern leftism is nothing but SJWs
>tfw we will never be free from corporate tyranny
>>28108951
Holy shit. You can tell just by the terminology that this was made by a radical leftie.
>>28108951
>communism
>"the working class holds the political and economic power in society"
LMFAO who made this
>>28109343
>why isn't muh board of neets and feelposters natsoc niggerkillers
>>28109357
pic related.
>>28109357
probably a white suburbanite american teenager that just discovered politics
Is Venezuela in the middle?
Is this a joke?
>>28109392
decide for yourself
https://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Economy_of_Venezuela
>>28109384
so why has there never been a communist nation without a power-hungry dictator or other sort of "state"? fucking idiot. If we're talking about practical application, communism is all about an oligarchy or dictatorship. It's a means of keeping the common person from doing anything that may disrupt the ruling STATE
>>28109440
sounds like that's why Stalinism is listed in the Grey sector of the chart, senpai.
>>28109384
oh look guys a white suburbanite american teenager that just discovered politics
>>28109461
>totalitarian state capitalism
you're a fucking moron
>>28109384
No, I just find it hilarious that it's so easy to determine one's bias by observing the terminology they use. And I'm not even NatSoc; get the ideology right. I want free markets, and I'll throw you out of a helicopter if that's what it takes, Bolshevik. NatSocs were closer to Commies than they are to me, anyway.
And of course Communism requires a state. If you believe anything otherwise, you're hopelessly stuck in the realm of philosophy, as opposed to practical application.
Pic very much related. NatSocs get free helicopter rides, too.
>>28109517
can i have a free helicopter ride too mister pinochet?
>>28109407
Power in Venezuela relies strictly in the president. In the Chavez time he even had 'special' powers to approve laws. Maduro had that as well but i don't know if he still has it. Now the new congress (mostly, oppositors) will change some stuff that socialists made.
>>28109497
What's dumb about that, senpai? Stalin seems like a really totalitarian statist guy to me. He put people in jail for being 20 minutes late to work.
>>28108951
The one where all the commies are rotting in a mass grave.
>>28109613
So if a communist does mean things, that makes them a fascist?
>>28109545
Check your backyard.
>>28109657
i don't have a backyard ;_;
>>28109653
Communism only works it fantasies, it never took into account that humans are assholes.
>>28109677
I'll pick you up from school tomorrow, p.h.a.m. Bring a life vest.
>>28109653
I don't think so, but I think it makes sense he'd be in the grey part of the chart, since he put all the political an economic power in the hads of the beaurocracy, and gave very little to the workers or capitalists. I think later in the war he decentralized a bit, but I think he struck right back when I was over. idk senpai, my history class didn't cover the USSR that in depth, but i really think Stalin would be in the grey part of the chart. maybe Early soviet union would be red, but I remember learning that the NEP was like basically like capitalism restored, so maybe blue?
>>28108951
This chart is such a train wreck, not even sure where to begin.
>>28109749
but i don't go to school ;__;
>>28109757
That's because it was made by a leftist. They seldom have a clear understanding of the political spectrum.
>>28109772
NEETs don't get free helicopter rides.
>>28109517
Lol. I learned about Pinochet in history class. Wasn't he the guy from Chile that murdered fucking musicians he didn't like? Wow, what a fucking edgelord. all the smartest people in Chile ran away to fucking Cuba things were so bad.
>>28109827
Yet now Chile is the least terrible country on their entire continent.
>>28109806
>>28109757
Not OP, but it seems like people really don't like this chart. I don't get it, isn't this the same chart used in HOI3? why don't you like it. I thought HOI3 was alright. what would you add to it? Does it need another axis for like theocracy or something? are the Paradox developers that made HOI3 leftists? I don't see what's wrong with the chart...
>>28109873
HOI3 is a wargame which only includes the bare minimum needed for a political system to make the wars work. If you want a more nuanced spread, look at Vicky. It's still a fucking videogame though.
>>28109517
LOL why are libershitbags on his nuts all of a sudden?
You do know he stood for everything you dumbfucks stand against right?
You know, that whole "freedom" thing? He was against that lmao.
>>28109923
wait are you telling me there's a single libertarian left on 4chan? i thought they all fucking killed themselves out of shame
>>28109849
It's actually Mexico.
>>28109827
He singlehandedly turned around a failing Socialist country by implementing Capitalist reforms, making it one of the only non-shitty South American nations.
>>28109873
No, a simple two-axis political compass chart (with the y axis measuring social issues & the x axis measuring economics) will suffice, as it encompasses everything (social issues are defined as literally everything that's not economics).
OP's chart is inherently flawed, because it's entirely through the lens of who "controls" society, or more appropriately, who he BELIEVES controls society. It's heavily subject to opinion.
e.g. A capitalist like me would tell you that the consumers are in control, in a capitalist society; a Communist would say it is the plutocrats and business owners. Measuring ideologies on a simple two axis chart removes all bias.
>>28109962
>Mexico
>South America
>>28109849
>After Pinochet left power, and his government was repudiated, Chile is a bit better in some respects and a bit worse in other than Ecuador and Peru
Yeah, in the meantime though, Pinochet fucked up so bad that fucking Cuba was desirable. KEK.
Also, you'll never convince me that killing fucking musicians is what caused the economy to grow. Bob Dylan didn't keep America from becoming the greatest superpower in the world.
>>28108951
Nonexistent
The best society is one in ruins.
>>28109972
kek even so, chile is not #1, it's brazil. Deal with it
>>28109234
White people are the reasons these systems work, nigger.
>>28110010
>it's brazil
are we talking quality of life or raw gdp? the only reason brazil has any sanctuaries of civilized white skinned europeans left is because it's so big that the sudaca subhumans haven't had time to fill it yet.
>>28109971
how are social issues plotabble on a spectrum, if they're everything that's not economics? also, how is economics not a social issue? I mean, it's called SOCIALism after all, because it's about the social relationships of economy, right?
>>28109995
>Also, you'll never convince me that killing fucking musicians is what caused the economy to grow.
Epic strawman. He implemented tons of reforms. No one is saying that killing musicians was what turned the country around. If you're not being ironic, you should kill yourself.
>>28110010
Objectively, it is not. Chile has 4.1% GDP growth; Brazil has half of that at 2.5%; Argentina is second to Chile at 2.9%. Chile also has exponentially higher living standards than any other South American country; it is practically as developed as Europe or the United States.
>>28108951
Blue is the best, but still generally shit, there is no perfect system and the flaws will always outweigh the good aspects.
Also this chart is far to oversimplified to be accurate in any way.
>>28108951
>confusing corporatism with crony capitalism
Typical pseudo-intellectual
>>28110077
I'm saying though the guy who made all the smart people go to Cuba and killed musicians is a bad guy, unless you think murder is a good thing, which makes you a massive edgelord. If he didn't need to kill musicians to help chile, then when did he kill them? he sounds like a shitty guy with a short temper.
>>28110074
Because social issues are gauged by what is more or less socially authoritarian; just like how economic issues are measured by what is more or less economically restrictive.
>how is economics not a social issue? I mean, it's called SOCIALism after all
>because it's about the social relationships of economy
It's called SOCIALism because its intention is to redistribute wealth for the betterment of society. That has nothing to do with social issues. An example of social issues would be; free speech, gun rights, marriage rights, the right to not be conscripted, etc. Economic issues differ entirely, as they deal with business and taxation.
Society is a waste of time
We should just nuke the Earth so nobody else has to deal with this stupid shit
>>28109995
>Bob Dylan didn't keep America from becoming the greatest superpower in the world.
if we had killed him we might be better off tho t b h
>>28108951
>capitalist class
How did this thread get this many replies?
>>28110077
GDP started to grow AFTER pinochet stepped down.
>Chile also has exponentially higher living standards than any other South American country; it is practically as developed as Europe or the United States.
t. chileno
>p-pls come chile... pls ;_; we don't have bolivian sudacas and mapuches. hehehe... pure white we're WHITE! general pinochet is muy fuerte jajajaj ;_;
>>28110186
The existence of the capitalist class is a fact. Whether they're a positive influence on society or not is up for debate.
>>28110166
Pinochet killed 3,000 people, which is dwarfed by the 100s of millions murdered by Communism. He didn't go around explicitly targeting musicians; political dissidents were murdered. I don't have a problem with murdering Communists, as they would readily murder me if given the chance to implement their ideology.
>>28108951
Let me get this straight.
The blue moon encompasses societies in which the capitalist class holds power. The grey moon encompasses societies in which the "bureaucratic, military, or other classes" hold power. Yet military dictatorships are in the blue moon. Rework this piece of shit OP.
>>28108951
center but leaning quite a bit into the red
>>28110202
Classes are mental constructs that help you calculate statistics and taxes. They aren't real, physical things. I can't go to the store and buy a class, and you can't show one to me in person. You can only talk about them. Only individuals exist, the rest is ideology.
>>28110167
Wait, so how does that work? Like with gun rights. If you say you can't sell any guns of a certain type, that's a social issue, right? but if you go to the gun maker and tell them what to make, isn't that economics? or is that social? are social rights just those things that don't have to do with production or banking?
>>28110262
This conversation is pointless if you believe humans are atomized individuals who don't naturally form groups with observable group behavior
>>28110228
>He's afraid chilean bob dylan would murder him.
Dude, fuck off. your hero murdered fucking musicians. You've already said killing musicians didn't help Chile, yet he killed them anyway. what a fucking monster.
>>28110188
>GDP started to grow AFTER pinochet stepped down.
Patently and demonstrably false. We can see that there was a rocky period after he was initially brought into power (although it should be noted that economic policies can take several YEARS to go into effect).
The most recent economic takeoff began in the mid 80s, when Pinochet was still in office. It was clearly a result of his policies.
>>28110282
Yes, the first thing you said would be a social issue; and telling a gun maker what to make WOULD be economics, because you are having the government taking control of the means of production.
>>28110353
No, I said that murdering musicians solely based on the fact that they are musicians would not help the government. If the musician happened to be a political dissident, then it would help them.
>>28110353
>hurr durr musicians are inherently innocent and any action against their actions is inherently unjustifiable
>hurr durr musicias who spread the ideology responsible for the deaths of tens of millions of innocents and numerous attempted cultural genocides (marxism) should be allowed to do so unrestricted
>>28110393
(Also, it should be noted that recessions are cyclical, and what should be taken away from observing these sorts of graphs is the OVERALL trend of growth)
>>28110334
This conversation is pointless if you believe the "capitalist class" is a cohesive group with any kind of well-defined behavior besides working for their own individual benefit (like everyone else).
>>28110077
for you
https://www.google.com/publicdata/explore?ds=d5bncppjof8f9_&met_y=ny_gdp_mktp_cd&idim=country:CHL:PER:COL&hl=en&dl=en
Wow, Pinochet sure did a lot! Looks like he shrunk the GDP 50% in only two years, and then by the end of his rule, managed to raise chile back to 1981 levels!
Great job, helicopter man (btw, I love le helicopter murder meme, very spicy!), meanwhile, Fucking Colombia, whose battling FARC and Cartels to this day is kicking Chile's butt.
>the retards are posting their commie propaganda again
>>28110459
>this is the level of debate a typical right-winger brings to the table
>>28109234
Once everyone is white communism will be inevitable.
>>28110393
>The most recent economic takeoff began in the mid 80s
When they started to transition to democracy lel. Pinochet didn't do shit, Aylwin was the man. Deal with it ;)
>>28110522
>implying whites aren't dying out at an alarming rate
buh bye white scum
>>28110393
>That chart.
If you scale it, it's basically identical to the GDP growth of EVERY fucking country and region.
go look it up. Fucking wow, Pinochet is such an administrative genius, he managed to grow the economy exactly the same basically everywhere else in the world that didn't murder people with helicopters. Good ol' Junta.
>>28110439
He didn't shrink GDP by 50%, you fucking idiot. Do you not understand how to properly process data? At no point was it shrunken, overall, by 50%. That is preposterous.
This graph offers a better look at the situation, overall. We can see an unprecedented downward spiral in Allende's regime, followed by a revival under Pinochet's rule. You can see a couple of small recessions (which, again, are cyclical), but an overall upward trend in GDP growth.
God damn, you're fucking stupid.
I don't mind Pinochet desu but I'm kinda an Allendeboo after learning about Cybersyn.
>>28108951
>Corporatism and Social Democracy as far away from Gray as possible
>>28110581
Was gonna post pic
>>28110537
>When they started to transition to democracy lel.
That has nothing to do with systems of economics; that is a system of government. Chile retained its capitalistic reforms even after Pinochet left office.
>>28110550
You don't know what the fuck you're talking about. Nobody is saying that Pinochet's economic policy was exceptional in any way; Chile did not grow faster than any other Capitalist nation.
What Pinochet is praised for is that he turned around a nation that had been ravaged by Socialism. Under Allende's policy, you can see a sharp decline in GDP in the chart I offered in >>28110561
He is not praised for having exceptional economic policy that was any different than other free market nations; Pinochet is praised for turning around a nation that was in decline.
There's no good society; society is inherently evil.
>>28110581
Holy Shit, Cybersyn seems awesome. and this was fucking 1970s in fucking Chile? Thumbs up Allende, bro.
>>28110652
get back to your cell kaczynski
>>28110561
you're right! it's more than 50%
1973: 16.38 Billion
1975: 7.226 Billion
How does it feel to be an autist defending south American dictatorships that have been extinct for decades on an anime image board at 1:30?
>>28108951
The capitalist class so all the annoying liberals die
>>28110628
>That has nothing to do with systems of economics
It absolutely does when an authoritarian government can have absolute control of the economy. Chile's economy was controlled by the Junta even more than it was controlled by the commies. Government control fucking caused a depression in the early 80s kek.
The chilean miracle was thanks to based Aylwin, not pinoshit. Again, Deal. with. it.
>>28110665
Yep. Pinochet ordered it all destroyed tho :(
>>28110841
socialists cucked hard
>>28110745
Again, it takes several years for economic reforms to kick in, you fucking idiot. They didn't even begin to implement the first set of reforms until 1974; the economy took off directly after 1975. That is literally following their implementation.
Again, read this graph, you fucking idiot >>28110561
The proof is right before your very eyes, and you ignore it.
If the reforms were implemented in 1974 and the economy took off in 1975-76, that is a VERY quick turnaround.
>>28110795
But an authoritarian government does not equate with heavy government control of the economy. The Chilean economy was HIGHLY deregulated under Pinochet's regime. The Chicago School of economics and Milton Friedman were heavily involved in the decentralization/privatization process. If you did even a modicum of research, you would realize this.
>>28108951
nowhere, because this "chart" was clearly made by a plebbitor.
>>28110871
Hardly deregulated when the whole economy revolves around copper which was and continues to be owned by one single state owned company.
>>28110871
>The Chilean economy was HIGHLY deregulated
Except that little currency manipulation they did that CAUSED A FUCKING DEPRESSION.
>The Chicago School of economics and Milton Friedman were heavily involved in the decentralization/privatization process
>see guys the free market will fix it! all it needs is literally a military dictatorship who destroys all opposition! :D :D :D
There comes a time when you must accept that your beloved memes are just that. Memes. Sorry to burst your bubble (like pino's the one boys caused with the chilean peso lmao) but pinochet was not as great as the memes make him out to be :^(
>>28110946
You clearly have not looked into any of the reforms that were made under that era. Jesus fucking Christ, at least read the Wikipedia article or something. Do some basic reading. Under Pinochet's regime, the copper mines were opened to private companies, as well as the nationalized one. It was a step in the right direction.
>>28110871
I came to this thread for keks about OP's bait.
What I got were far superior keks from the biggest cuck of all time, unironically trying to defend a literal military junta. I think similar levels of stupidity can only be seen in North Korea, Baathist Iraq, or Azerbaijan. This guy is basically that one autist in your class that say's he's a monarchist to be edgy.
>>28111093
Typical "liberal democracy is the end of history and anything else is inherently wrong" plebian
>>28111065
The recession was caused by a pegged exchange rate, which was implemented by Sergio de Castro; it had nothing to do with Pinochet. The Chicago Boys and Friedman were in direct opposition to this policy.
>>28111093
You literally cannot refute my argument, so you resort to ad-homs.
And I'm not a fan of dictatorships, but Pinochet did nothing wrong. I have no problem with murdering people who would otherwise murder me, and support an ideology that has killed 100s of millions.
>>28109242
I came here to pretty much post this
people cannot be trusted with power
>>28109384
pic related
>>28111147
>s-stop laughing at me, don't you know laughing is an ad hominem
Sure thing, debater boy, tell me more about your school teacher torturing boyfriend who did nothing wrong. I'm sure a middle school teacher was gonna kill you, I mean duh, that's what they get.
>>28111340
When you try this hard to act un-phased, it's almost like you're secretly upset.
>>28111156
not taking sides, except the side of historical fact, but If you actually asked these guys what they were doing, they would have probably said
Lenin: initially War Communism, later New Economic Policy
Stalin: Socialism in one state/ Federal Socialism/ Marxist-Leninism
Mao: Agrarian Socialism, or something
Pol pot: I'm going to kill you for asking.
so you see, not many of them would say they were doing communism, and Even Lenin knew he had to back off War communism quickly
>>28111476
>fact
Fact is an ideological side
