What is your opinion of turning stem (science technology engineering math) into STEAM (science, technology engineering ART math)?
My early childhood education professor goes off about how stem is for boys and how we should hold art to be as useful as stem. Because girls can do it better or something.
I ignore her gender politics.
But what are your opinions? Stem or steam?
>>28077900
Literally every noteworthy contribution to culture has been made by men.
>>28077900
But every great artist in history was a male. In every single form of art, too. Painting, writing, music, etc.
Women have done nothing.
>>28078017
>don't let women do anything men do in history
>relegate them to having kids and do housework all their lives while the men study, work and achieve things
>"lol fucking useless cunts can't do anything lmao xD"
>>28078057
Name ten important female artists from the past ten years
art is too different from stem to be put into the same category
>>28078057
>let woman work all the time
>women do not have children
>The tribe dies
art has no place in university or society as anything more than a hobby.
>>28077932
>>28078017
>>28078162
>Never got laid
It makes no sense other than to make majors in the arts and their respective department professors feel needed when they aren't.
To actually drive an economy, STEM is needed. Arts is simply supplementary and completely optional for a college degree. Anyone even remotely skilled in the arts can be self taught while pursuing a more worthwhile degree. E.G. if you want to learn music, pick up a book and teach yourself, there is no reason to major in music.
>>28078210
>Can't come up with an argument or even respond anything, so starts greentexting random shit
Not even one of those anons you replied to but that's just pathetic.
>>28078210
>y-you're a virgin!
kys
>>28078162
Well, there was that one chick who used period blood to paint. Clearly the next Da Vinci.
>>28078274
>If someone wants to devote their time and efforts to something art, they should study a different thing so they can eventually do that thing they don't care about instead because muh economy
Literal slave mentality.
>>28078381
It is the way the world works, you aren't entitled to be successful in exactly what you want to do.
Education is an investment in yourself and if you cannot make more money through your investment than you would without it, then why make it?
Also, I said they can do their art interest outside of their primary education. They can learn all the same things through publicly available books and self determination while ensuring that they have a backup plan that can fund their interest. Relying solely on something with no demand and virtually no chance at success is idiotic and self harming.
>>28077900
it's not like STEM is anything more than a brand. it's designed to sell the dumb narrative that >>28078498 subscribes to, that if you want to do anything outside of what your masters will pay you for then you better do it on your own time and on your own dime.
>>28078817
STEM is a conspiracy to stop people studying art?
>>28078210
Nobody on this board should ever have had sex. If you have you should gtfo ree etc
>>28079066
STEM is a conspiracy to flood STEM fields with mid-tier employees allowing wage cuts and worse working conditions
Supply and demand, the way the world works goy. :^)
>>28079223
this, it's already happening in compsci because idiots jumped on the bandwagon
>>28079066
i wouldn't call it a conspiracy. it's just reinforcing pre-existing hostilities towards the humanities in general -- the attitude of "haha dude u got an english degree, hope u like flippin burgers lmao" except legitimized on an institutional level.
>>28078162
Joanna Newsom & Grimes.
>>28077900
No. Engineers dont need parasites who expect society to bear the burden of their existence.
>>28077900
Nice dubs.
The slippery slope is real jesus christ.
It doesn't belong in stem if you can do it without calculus and linear algebra.
That's right CS grads, get the fuck out.
>>28077900
arts has nothing to do with science technology or mathematics what the fuck
>>28079324
*or engineering
>>28078210
M-muh vagina
Muh vagina mufugga
>>28077900
Most great artists never went to college for art.
Women's greatest talent is their ability to shit out kids so our society can keep going. Nothing else they do will ever come close.
Seriously, an art degree is an obscene waste of money.
>>28078181
This. Jews forced women into the workplace in order to crash the White birthrate and labor costs at the same time.
Why are feminists so fucking obsessed with this shit? The whole point of "STEM" is to group similar fields and separate them from different fields like arts, english, history, etc. Now feminists want to get rid of this and make it include arts? Then what's the fucking point of making a STEM category? Art is completely different from science and engineering. They do this with gender, weight, fucking everything. They are so obsessed with it and it makes me think they don't understand the purpose of grouping like things in different categories, something a child should be able to comprehend.
>>28078817
Your 'masters' pay you to do what they need you to do. If you can make it on your own as an entrepreneur then power to you, but the vast majority of people won't, thus need to be able to do the jobs that are in demand.
>>28079269
I see it happening in EE too. The department has nerf'd the hell out of traditionally difficult classes like circuits and microprocessor systems.
The arts are incredibly valuable but like Math,Art is exclusively the realm of Men. There are no female artists and never will be.
That said though STEM is arms race cold war shit. Art is useful for CIA/KGB fun times. STEM is the real driving factor behinds Bombs, vehicles, and infrastructure. Yoou can have all the intel and brainwash the enemies country into cucks but without a bomb, delivery, and way to support it and your country you aren't doing anything.
>>28077900
STEM is the term used to differentiate Art and the Humanities from, well, Science, tech, engineering and math. If you add Art to it all you're just making the term less useful in it's intended role, so I'm not sure why you would.
The A should be accounting above anything else
If you make it STEAM, then isn't it basically just any college degree?
>>28079659
this is exactly why no one seems to know what happened in history before 1950 or how to construct a proper fucking sentence. anything that doesn't profit your overlords goes into le trash these days
>>28079611
>Women can do [thing] better than men can
>*removes objective judgement criteria*
Who's to say that shitting period blood all over a bus seat isn't the same as sending a manned mission to colonize the moon when both are considered equal? It's like this everywhere. Even in military and police forces, if I woman cna pass the bare minimum male standards she gets the highest level elite status for a female. Something like doing 1 pullup is considered specops tier for women, meanwhile any old basement dweller male can do at least one pull up.
I'm going the other way on this, the Arts doesn't need STEM. Don't get me wrong, the effect that arts exposure and training will have vast on Engineering, but the single focus, autistic vision of the Engineer with his love of equations has no place dealing with poetics or metaphors. God help them when they hit the plurality wall. I mean process art and Installation works might benifit a touch, but for painting there is no hard logic. Only loose rules.
STEM is a containment area, to keep the nerds who build shit away from the nerds that create meaning. Back away from my paints you dirty neckbeard.
>Signed a former EE student who transferred to Fine Arts
It's fun smacking down both the floaty art student and the logician.
>>28077932
This.
Name 5 significant female artists.
Now name 100 significant male artists.
>>28079748
Those were gatekeeper classes used as tools of oppressive by the cishet partiarchal scum. It's to maintain status quo and keep the wage gp real under vague bullshit guises such as muh effort muh difficulty. As if that nerd shit has anything to do with STEM and getting a good job.
>>28079842
Do you not understand the modern economy?
How do you expect someone to live comfortably? You seem to have it all figured out.
>>28079929
Why are art students such pretentious twats. STEM doesn't exist to subjugate art students and make them feel inadequate. It is just a category that groups similar majors together. It's not a competition, a scientist can enjoy writing poetry in his free time if he wants.
>>28079975
University is for education. It has shit all to do with the economy or employment. Go to votech if you don't care about education and just want a job. The university is for those with loftier goals in mind. Knowledge for the sake of knowledge. Art for the sake of art. It is a thing of beauty and purity and I'm sick of children shitting it up.
If art is added to STEM then what is excluded? It seems like it wild be kinda useless since STEAM would pretty much cover all majors, unless they're saying fine arts.
>>28079929
>signed, dumbass who couldn't make it in EE
>>28079223
Funny, I've heard the same from people that are usually mediocre at these fields.
STEM is so exclusive that only a few among the best are capable of be 100% successful because everybody wants them.
Stop being a half-assed nigger and do your fucking work right.
>>28079976
>STEM doesn't exist to subjugate art students and make them feel inadequate
But STEM fags jack off to telling art students that they're wasting their time.
>>28080245
Enjoy being replaced by poo-poo-pajeet.
>>28077900
The point of STEM is to group those fields seperately from the arts. STEAM is meaningless. There may be creativity and art-like things in STEM but art, writing, etc as fields are not a part of STEM.
>>28080298
You're not wasting your time but you might be wasting your money if you are in burgerland and don't have a scholarship or parents paying for it. That's true for STEM too though.
>>28077900
Wouldn't that basically cover almost every subject in university ? What would be the point of that term other than making arts students feel better about themselves ?
>>28080363
>tfw law dropout
>can't pretend i'm above both STEM and art anymore.
> art
> useful
Art is great but I'd be hard-pressed to see any practical application for it.
>>28080319
Again, if you are mediocre don't expect your title brings you pools of money and success.
If you're good you can even reach the level of self-employement if you're not, there's when you get replaced by other mediocre but with lower payment.
>>28077900
STEM jobs are meant to further technology. How does art do that?
>>28080521
STEM is advertised as "anyone can do it, and even the mid-tier can succeed!"
which is the lie.
>>28080542
good technology that doesn't sell well is next to worthless until someone else rips it off. (see: britain 1950s-1990s)
art (well, design) might well just help you in selling your product.
>>28078274
My general philosophy is if your not taking out loans, do what you want.
If you are taking out loans, you better damn well have a plan.
It sad to see morons take out loans for an art degree.
>>28077900
Well to be honest, STEAM makes slightly more sense than some groupings, because if you're really good at art it can be a trade that makes you truly successful and mentally stimulated.
And researching pure mathematics is basically art for autists.
>>28078162
Name ten important male artist from the past ten years.
I'm sure someone will google ten artists and call me a stupid whore but seriously, artists aren't highly enough valued in our society to just know about modern ones.
>>28077900
>stem is for boys
Retarded.
>girls can do it better or something
Retarded
>we should make it that way BECAUSE of gender politics
Retarded.
Honestly, you can make the argument for the whole "STEAM," but only on the basis of finally getting culturally bankrupt STEM lords to shut up. Making it into a gender thing is moronic.
>>28080582
>implying the point of science is to sell shit
Sounds pretty stupid. Look at mobile phones. There has been no innovation in the entire world of phones since 2007 with the release of the iphone. The market has been stagnant for nearly ten years thanks to 'art' and marketing. Ten fucking years and they still can't figure out how to put a fucking keyboard on a computer?
Women have no need to achieve, their social and cultural status is not dependent on any external effort. They just have to look nice enough.
>>28077932
Sweet, how does that answer the question?
>>28078210
>Expecting anyone on this board to not be a virgin
Art is less important than all stem fields. This is coming from somebody who is a professional commercial artist. The world does not need more artists there are too many already
>>28080843
>There has been no innovation in the entire world of phones since 2007 with the release of the iphone
I'm someone who absolutely loathes smartphones and even I'm dumbfounded by how stupid what you just said was.
>>28080843
The market has been stagnant for nearly ten years thanks to 'art' and marketing.
you're fucking with me right
>>28080843
>implying the point of science is to sell shit
The point of some science (original research), and large amounts of TEM is to develop products that will eventually be sold.
>Ten fucking years and they still can't figure out how to put a fucking keyboard on a computer?
They specifically took it off with the iPhone. The iPhone was ridiculed for having no physical keyboard on release.
And then it turned out consumers didn't actually want one. Consumers have shit taste, sure, but it sells.
Low-power processor technology, small high-res screens, mobile internet, and don't forget consumer tracking technology (remember, not all "advances" are good!) have advanced immensely since the iPhone.
>>28080553
Not reallly
>>28077900
To be honest all of this talk about subjects and grouping doesn't even matter.
At the end of the day, you either fear logical thinking, or you don't. I've tutored maths for years, and the #1 thing I've noticed is that over 90% of people fear logical thinking. They recoil from it. So they'll never even know how good they are at it.
You can try to do "maths" by dancing, but at some point someone is going to ask an actual question about maths concepts, and someone is going to have to think logically, and 90% of people will get scared. And the dancing will quickly reveal itself as irrelevant.
>>28077900
>Because girls can do it better or something.
Lmao. Not even anywhere near true
>>28079611
>The whole point of "STEM" is to group similar fields and separate them from different fields like arts, english, history, etc
if the point of STEM is to group similar fields it fails out the fucking gate because math as practiced is nothing like science/tech/engineering
it is unempirical, requires different patterns of thought, and attracts different types of people
just look at terrorism, science/tech/engineering people are the fucking bread and butter of terrorist cells, meanwhile the terrorists per capita for math grads is as pathetically low as artsfags, unabomber notwithstanding
if you're STE and you want to throw a bone to M because of how much fucking math you do, cool fucking story bro, whatever you need to make a pronouncable acronym, but it's not a coherent organizing scheme
>>28081628
>math as practiced is nothing like science/tech/engineering
I think this is the least-known fact about maths. Maths attracts exactly the same people as philosophy. I mean, it basically is a branch of philosophy that got government funding because it happened to be useful.
