>tfw fell for the Bernie Sanders meme
>>28013705
Lmao, I voted for Trump
>>28013724
Why? Bernie was going to give us all free college and $15 minimum wage and legal weed you stupid asshole...
>>28013750
Trump want's to lower taxes so I can pay for school myself and not be a cuck. I make 15 dollars an hour without needing it to be the minimum wage because I have a functional brain.
>>28013800
>pay for school myself
There are people making literally billions of dollars right now just by being CEOs. Why the FUCK should I have to pay for college when I make no money? Bernie was the only candidate who was actually trying to improve things, Trump just wants to start a muslim holocaust.
I can't wait until the election bullshit is over and people can stop circlejerking over muh candidate. Congress is the only thing that matters anyway.
>>28013800
>Trump wants to lower taxes
He's not lowering taxes for no cuck like you with your non-millionare status. He's lowering taxes for companies so he can profit.
>>28013831
Then get a job that makes more money. You should pay for yourself.
>>28013831
>someone else has money, why should I have to pay for anything?
because it's not your money.
>>28013863
He actually has the most pro-poor person tax plan. Raises taxes for the rich. That's pretty much it.
>>28013871
>tfw shit poster fell for the job meme
>>28013863
No, bernjew would raise ALL taxes including people who barely make any money so that they can ask the gubament for an allowance.
>>28013831
Fuck off Bernie shill lmao
>>28013898
>loser fell for the welfare meme
What a surprise.
>>28013831
get a job you fucking bum
>>28013894
Raises taxes itself does very little, regulating the market, changing loop holes put in place by richfags, limiting swaps, putting money stowed away back into circulation and limiting the ability of companies to monopolize essentially everything is the way to actually begin fixing this fucked up country, donald trump does nothing but use buzz words and people fall for it.
>>28013750
>voting for a retard who doesn't believe in free market capitalistic principles
>thinking fairness matters more than competition
>choosing idealism over pragmatism
hopefully trump kills all you retards in the new empire
>>28013884
It's not like CEOs did anything to earn money either. They get it by taking advantage of a corrupt capitalist system gone crazy. The employees should have that money if anyone, it's just that the billionaire class learned how to con everyone into giving them more than they'll ever need. Wealth needs to be redistributed, it's nowhere close to fair how things are today. Everyone should make basically the same amount to take care of what they need, paying one person fifty times more than another doesn't make any sense.
>>28013925
>not on well fare
>know lots of people barely getting by, scared of being on well fare
>bernie hasnt done anything but bash people who don't work or work very little
>has openly stated what he wants most is to make sure people who work full time and overtime actually get a chance in this country
>people still complain hes a free shit candidate
>>28013831
bernie supporters in a nutshell
I feel you, man. but there's no fucking way bernie would've got anything done during his time. he simply has no friends on the white house, nor anywhere that matters. it was that simple, he was doomed from the start
>>28013959
This country isn't a free market or a capitalist country, just look at stuff like citizen united.
>people pay into the system
>the system makes money from those that pay into it
>the system works with those people to supress everyone else
>companys are people too
>trump bragged about using those laws to get rich/fuck people over
>>28013967
Youre either a huge fucking idiot or 16 yrs old. Which i guess would still make you a huge fucking idiot
>>28013983
He should bash himself then, jew has never had a job.
>>28013967
>wahh how dare they have something that I don't! I deserve it so much more!
Grow up. If you hate being poor, do something about it instead of whining how it's not fair that the government doesn't steal more money from other people and give it to you.
>>28013967
lmao you're such a fucking retard
>>28014034
When those other people have gotten their money by stealing it from all of us, I don't see why we shouldn't steal it back.
Unless you're incredibly filthy rich, and I highly doubt anybody on /r9k/ qualifies, you're cucking the fuck out of yourself by voting for anything else.
>>28014068
>stealing it
citation needed
>>28014068
"they didn't give me money" =/= "they stole money from me"
>>28014034
>wahh how dare they have something that i don't
right, because when the market collapsed and the people had to pay out of pocket for the shit wall street started they deserved all that money
>tfw 9million unemployed
>tfw 3 million homeless
>tfw goverment took pensions, mortgages, ect to pay off the debt
>tfw fatcats still paying themselves 9million dollar bonuses years later rather than serve a sentence.
>>28014068
They are not stealing money off you if you are willingly giving it to them by buying their products or services.
>>28014082
The bailouts for wallstreet aren't enough?
>>28013967
>Wealth needs to be redistributed
things that commies say
>>28014016
>he is regurgitating me his commie talking points
Cool indoctrination bro. I hate capitalism now. I am now /team communism/.
>>28014162
I dont hate capitalism, that's not communism, you haven't argued the point at all. But whatever
>>28014101
For every "predatory lender" there was a reckless borrower. Nobody ever put a gun to your head and said "Take this loan - or else!" That was free choice. If you took a mortgage knowing you wouldn't be able to pay it if you lost your job, well that's a risk you chose to take, and it's not society's problem that it blew up on you. Teach your kids to be more careful with taking debt.
>>28013800
Lmao ultimate wagecuck
Don't you have some bourgeois dick to suck for 8 hours and get pennies for it?
>>28014051
Seeing people discussing things it doesn't understand makes the Americlap resort to autistic rage.
>>28014216
"Predatory lending" can be basically forced upon you for a number of reasons, not just for a house. But that's also not the only reason that the market crashed. Did you forget the swaps that banks took out on their own money? What about goldman sachs selling debt just to bet against it knowing it would fail after intentionally lying about its validity? What about the entire housing industry rating mortgages triple A when they were full of shit? Even people who took out legitimate loans were hurt and collapsed under the weight of those that didn't, lots ended up homeless or paying a shitty mortgage on a house that is continuing to plummet in value.
>>28014162
>Be against selfish greed, the sin that angered Jesus the most and caused him to flip out
>"lol grow up filthy commie greed is good"
We're supposed to be trying to do Gods will on Earth, not hurry the second coming.
>>28014194
>bitching and moaning about muh fairness
>implying that's a point
>>28013831
>Bernie was the only candidate who was actually trying to improve things, Trump just wants to start a muslim holocaust.
Haha, you silly goy
>>28014082
>>28014097
>>28014114
OK, first of all, products and services. We pay more in the US for essential services, like power, water, communications, and medical care than just about anybody else in the world, and get less for it.
They steal money from hardworking people when they buy companies and ruin them on purpose to make a profit, usually by taking out a bunch of huge loans, pocketing the cash, and then leaving the company to go bankrupt.
They steal money from us when they ship jobs overseas while making record profits.
They steal money from us when they make trade deals that make us noncompetitive and take away import and export tarrifs that would fund things like schools and healthcare.
They steal from us when they use our tax dollars to give their companies huge contracts for dead-end military hardware with massive budget overruns.
They steal from us when they cripple our schools to give themselves tax cuts.
They steal money from us when they run their companies into the ground and then get bailed out with our tax dollars.
They steal from us when they push to remove antitrust legislation and then buy out all of their competitors and fire their employees.
They steal from us when they take half of my state's tax income and ship it to other states.
They steal from us when they become some of the richest men in the world while paying their employees so little that they're on welfare while working full-time jobs.
They steal from us when they use our taxes to fund pointless wars that only benefit defense contractors.
I'm lucky. I'm quite well-off, actually. But I can see that we can't keep going this way for much longer, or we're looking at a complete collapse of the American economy.
>>28014274
>or paying a shitty mortgage on a house that is continuing to plummet in value.
Also their fault. A house is like any other investment and can decline in value. Which people seem to forget when they're borrowing a few times their annual income to buy one, preferring instead to believe that it only ever goes up.
The banks never could have built a huge pile of junk mortgages if people weren't so delusional as to take loans that they should well have known they could never afford. Was Wall Street innocent? No. But without the collaboration of the American home-buying public, they could never have caused more than a minor slowdown confined to the financial sector. If Wall Street didn't deserve its bailout, neither did underwater homeowners.
>>28014276
>being a godfag on 4chan
I seriously hope you don't do this.
>>28014389
And I didn't ever say that they dig, the ditch was dug and they both dug it. But only one got saved, and the other HAD TO PAY FOR IT.
>believing in anybody or anything
>current year
What did you expect?
>>28013983
He is still a free shit candidate. Why should I or anyone else have to pay for some lazy nigger's healthcare or education? Odds are it'll be wasted effort anyway. Free college would destroy the value of degrees even more than they are now and overcrowd the colleges.
Also, minimum isn't and never was supposed to be a "living" wage. Those kind of jobs are not supposed to be a main source of income. They are there for starter jobs while going to school or just extra money on top of a real job's income and nothing more.
All bernouts see is just "hurrrrr durr gib me free [healthcare, education, or w/e]" They never actually look ahead to see the disastrous effects such policies would have on the U.S. Get a real job and pay for that shit yourself like the rest of us, you lazy fucks.
If you actually believe in the free college meme you should kill yourself t.b.h.
Enjoy a 200% tax raise to pay for Jamal and Tyrone's liberal arts degree.
http://www.npr.org/sections/ed/2016/02/17/466730455/fact-check-bernie-sanders-promises-free-college-will-it-work
>>28014351
>and then leaving the company to go bankrupt.
You need to have the "destruction" half of "creative destruction" to get any of capitalism's benefits. Companies fail, whether by bad choices by management and investors or otherwise. Same way forest fires are needed to clear out the underbrush for new growth.
>when they ship jobs overseas while making record profits.
Labor is just a commodity like any other, and it's worth what someone is willing to pay for it. And there's a lot of people in the world willing to sell it for less than you. Either be a better worker or cut your price. You, by the way, engage in the same thing whenever you shop for a product on the basis of price.
>they make trade deals that make us noncompetitive and take away import and export tarrifs that would fund things like schools and healthcare.
Trade deals don't make you uncompetitive, trade deals just take away things that mask uncompetitiveness. Tariffs prop up inefficient domestic industries by protecting them from overseas competition - corporate welfare if I ever saw it. Big daddy government going to a favored industry and saying "Don't worry, we'll protect you from those foreigners so that you don't have to innovate, or cut your prices, you can sit back fat and happy with your captive market!"
>use our tax dollars to give their companies huge contracts for dead-end military hardware with massive budget overruns.
Why isn't that the fault of the military? They choose what they want, who'll make it, where its made, what it needs to do. But somehow they're incapable of holding companies to a deadline or a budget?
>our schools to give themselves tax cuts.
Teachers' unions crippled our schools. We spend way more per student already and get worse outcomes than other first-world nations. Charters give kids a better education for less money, because they have to succeed or go out of business. Public schools are a sleepy monopoly with no pressure to improve.
Remember NEETS
If Bernie is not president and Trump wins, you stop receiving your Neetbucks
>>28014408
I have no problem with non christians, I just feel sorry for you. It's so sad that you have to live in sin without knowing God and will eventually die and go to hell. I wish I could save you but I know that if someone truly doesn't believe in God then he wasn't meant to, literally unable to and will not convert by their own free will. I hope that you're not one of them and that you will be able to feel God's glory someday, and if not I hope you have only happyness in life and enjoy every second of it.
>>28014494
Healthcare has already been proven to work, free college is being directed towards those who have already proven themselves (high gpas and good degrees). Jobs in fields where people can't find employment are typically in arts degrees, these aren't being funded and are regarded as a waste of time anyway, educating lots of STEM students would benefit the country, which as stagnated and backtracked on technology and basically every other field in the next few years. As for the living wage jobs where would the 3m+ people who work at that rate go to pay for their lives? Who would service these places once the students leave? No one? Why should any job be just a summer job if it's usually a huge company with thousands of employees making huge profits because they pay so little?
>>28014533
>Why isn't that the fault of the military? They choose what they want, who'll make it, where its made, what it needs to do. But somehow they're incapable of holding companies to a deadline or a budget?
It's congress and not the military who have the final say on procurement issues, and they're under intense lobbying pressure at best and are totally corrupt at worst.
As for bankruptcy, we're not talking about companies going out of business naturally, we're talking about people running them into the ground on purpose to make a profit.
As for trade deals, yeah, that's right, they mask uncompetitiveness. That's what's necessary to maintain a first-world economy. We can't compete with China unless we become China, and unless you have a nine figure bank account it's not going to work out well for you.
>>28014351
>run their companies into the ground and then get bailed out with our tax dollars.
I agree. So surely you'll say that General Motors and Chrysler should have been allowed to go bankrupt instead of crying to the government for money? After all, their problems were self-inflicted - building the wrong kind of cars in an inefficient way.
>remove antitrust legislation and then buy out all of their competitors and fire their employees.
You can only maintain a monopoly with the help of government regulation that makes it hard for other companies to come in and compete with you.
>when they take half of my state's tax income and ship it to other states.
That sounds like a problem you have with the way your state's politicians are spending your money, not anything with the private sector. Here's an idea, maybe we could give politicians less tax dollars to spend so they couldn't squander them on pet projects?
>some of the richest men in the world while paying their employees so little that they're on welfare while working full-time jobs.
I said it before and I'll say it again - there is no intrinsic value in labor. It's worth what someone is willing to pay for it. And since absolutely anyone can be a cashier, whaddaya know, that job pays crap, since there's far more supply of labor than demand for labor. If the cashiers don't like that, maybe they should look for another job, improve their skills, etc.
Bonus point in that many welfare schemes discourage work by making you financially worse off (through reduced benefits) for earning more money working.
>use our taxes to fund pointless wars that only benefit defense contractors.
That's also a problem you have with politicians, not with private companies. Complain to them about it. And again, maybe tell them to take fewer of your dollars in taxes, since you get so little for your money.
>>28014573
>feels sorry for me
>is the one knee deep in the jesus cult
>deludes himself into thinking religion is real so his life has meaning
>doesn't know he's just going to die and nothing will happen
>doesn't know he's no different than a cow that was killed and served as a big mac
>>28014664
bluepilled as fuck.
>>28014695
"For God so loved the world that he gave his one and only Son, that whoever believes in him shall not perish but have eternal life."
>>28014695
learn to greentext cancerous Fedora newfag, you're just as cringey as the christian retard
>>28014746
>quotes bible scripture when he feels insecure
>being this much of a bitch
>>28014747
>what matters is that I am superior to both of you
>being this autistic
>>28014540
>>If Bernie is not president and Trump wins, you stop receiving your Neetbucks
Most here are neeting off mom and dad. It's tremendously hard to get neetbucks in the US as a single, childless male.
>>28014641
>and they're under intense lobbying pressure at best and are totally corrupt at worst.
The solution's the same in either case, elect some better politicians if the current ones are making such a hash of it.
>we're not talking about companies going out of business naturally, we're talking about people running them into the ground on purpose to make a profit.
So? If they were worth more broken up than as a going concern, they should be wound up and liquidated. Why sell your car in one piece if it's worth more as a pile of spare parts?
>We can't compete with China unless we become China
Only if you play the game the same way the Chinese do - by trading on low labor costs. If the US middle class wants its labor to continue to be worth more than Chinese labor, well then maybe they'd better do something to make their labor demonstrably better than the Chinese, so that companies say "Yeah, it costs more here, but it's better value because we get much better work for the money". And yeah, that means that routine work that anyone can do is gonna drop to Chinese wage levels. Deal with it - learn some skills. Make yourself more valuable than that. The days where you could walk into a factory, do the same unskilled work for thirty years, and then retire with a full pension, those are long gone and there's nothing ripping up trade deals will do about it - because if its not the Chinese replacing you, it'll be machines. That same labor isn't worth as much today as it once was, the same way that a computer costs a lot less now than twenty years ago, for a lot more power. Welcome to competition, no economic policy will prevent it.
>>28014664
> agree. So surely you'll say that General Motors and Chrysler should have been allowed to go bankrupt instead of crying to the government for money? After all, their problems were self-inflicted - building the wrong kind of cars in an inefficient way.
Yup. Same goes for Wall Street.
>You can only maintain a monopoly with the help of government regulation that makes it hard for other companies to come in and compete with you.
Except that's never worked out that way in the history of modern business. One company just buys up all of the others or forces them out. In many cases, there's not a chance in hell of those other companies competing because they're up against an amount of money that could never be made in their industry.
>That sounds like a problem you have with the way your state's politicians are spending your money, not anything with the private sector. Here's an idea, maybe we could give politicians less tax dollars to spend so they couldn't squander them on pet projects?
Nope, the federal government takes half the taxes my blue state pays, and gives a whole bunch of red states far more taxes than they pay. Those states include Alaska, who takes that money and gives it to oil companies.
>I said it before and I'll say it again... etc because of character limit
There simply aren't enough jobs in our country for every cashier to get a better job. Many of those cashiers have college educations and serious skills, too, and a lot are even older people who had real careers and had their jobs shipped off to China.
>That's also a problem you have with politicians, not with private companies...
Politicians and private companies are one hand-in-hand unit in modern America. Like I said before, it ranges between lobbying pressure and pure corruption, but it's blatant. Just look at how many politicians get elected on corporate campaign dollars and upon retirement go straight into high-dollar jobs at the very companies whose interests they served.
>>28014799
>If the US middle class wants its labor to continue to be worth more than Chinese labor, well then maybe they'd better do something to make their labor demonstrably better than the Chinese
The problem is this isn't possible, so unless your OK with the standard of living of the US dropping to the Chinese level, government intervention will be a necessity.
You're fundamentally right, labor doesn't have value but the reason for that is intrinsic to the capitalist economic system which is no longer applicable. There are too many people and there is an upper limit on their ability.
The fact is most people are simply not smart enough to have any real economic value beyond physical labor. When a sizeable chunk of the population becomes poor enough(as is happening now), there will be mass riots and some form of socialism will be implemented. It's inevitable.
>>28014533
Oh, and I just want to say this. I'm not even going to try arguing with you on unions, because you guys have been cherrypicking the worst of them and scapegoating the whole union system for generations. However, I'll say that my family was sure happy that my dad was union on the multiple occasions that Fortune 100 companies have refused to pay him for work he did while on contract with them.
>>28014799
>elect better politicians
Yea, if only it were that easy, unfortunately the us does everything in it's power to lobby to make voting harder and supress the vote of the individual, just look at the ID requirement laws and you'll understand.
>If they were worth more broken apart...
Yea except for when those companies get run into the ground to make profit they hurt everyone around them, usually by exploiting the system. Case in point when a car is broken up into parts its worth less because the parts if sold seperately can be worth less or more than a fully functional car. Same goes for a company, just HOW is it that the company is worth more when run into the ground is the real question.
>Competition no economic policy will prevent.
Yea, it really can't be prevented, but there are ways to stack the system to favor the people rather than the companies who out source to places willing to pay that little, profit is not the only margin we should be worrying about, since i doubt you are a CEO there are things more important than running up the score, such as ensuring people have the opportunity to make money and keeping the low to middle class from stagnating under the lack of jobs in the market.
>>28013959
>Trump
>Pragmatic
Shiggydiggydoo desu
>>28014894
Look at it this way - US labor was like a company earning monopoly profits (high wages and standard of living) because there was no effective competition. Now there is competition. Both from other countries willing to sell labor for less, and machines that allow companies everywhere to use a lot less labor. You're gonna have to adapt sooner or later, no amount of protectionism is gonna let things be like they were.
>>28014913
I've got no problem with unions - in the private sector. In the private sector both sides can lose. If the union asks for too much, the company can go under (That happened with a food company a while back, Hostess I think) If the company has to raise its prices to cover higher wages, well then customers are free to take their business elsewhere. The market will, unironically, solve it.
The public sector has a monopoly though. If I think I'm getting bad value for my tax dollars, I can only take my business elsewhere by moving (state and local) or moving out of country and then renouncing my citizenship (federal). That's a whole different ballgame. The public unions know that the government can always extract more money from captive citizens, so no, I see no reason why they should be able to hold everyone else to ransom.
>>28014975
>Just HOW is it that the company is worth more when run into the ground is the real question.
As I mentioned in my post, it's not the company itself, it's what you can do with it. These "investors" buy companies, and then use those companies to take out enormous loans, ones that those companies could normally never get, but the investors are in cahoots with the lenders. The investors pocket the loan cash, and then ditch the company with a giant pile of debt. It's essentially just high-level quasi-legal money laundering.
>>28015095
Right, and that's wrong, because that money has to come from somewhere, usually the average american.
>/r9k/ - Politics
no seriously fuck off back to >>>/pol/ why should we give a shit
>>28015069
Adapting means changing the economic system to reflect the current circumstances.
Socialism in some capacity is the future, or complete social breakdown.
>>28013750
America as a whole is at least smart enough to not repeat the Soviet Union's failures.
>>28015269
Yea instead it goes to war in iraq over false pretenses, gives money to people who don't work, gives money to coporate fat cats, deducts taxes on rich people, allows the infrastructure to crumble , allows schools to fail, suppresses voting and free speech laws, discriminates toward those with no money... ect...
